Crossdressers-Haven.com

...then I am going ahead with full transition.

Hi Lorna,

I used to think that, too. When I reached the specified age, I didn't transition, and I'm glad I didn't. First, there are a lot of lonely women in the world--being older than 40 is not an obstacle to finding someone to love. Second, it seems to me that the life of a single, holy or righteous man is both better and easier than the life of a transexual.

Just some things you might wish to consider.

Cathy

Hi Lorna,

My oh my. That's a huge statement. It reminded me though of Elaine and Kramer's agreement to get married.

I've met a few people who I totally believe that if they weren't married they'd transition or if they were to part ways with their spouses they'd transition. So I think that making a deadline for marriage is the same. It might be what a therapist would recommend as being a great way of planning, but to each their own, ya know? I am with you whatever you decide.

So what caused or inspired this train of thought? I remember a few years ago on the Delphi forum when you said you were considering it. Is this a kind of continuation of that thought? Were you just kind of talking out loud or is this kind of a continuation of "Is I is or Is I Ain't" or is it that you feel you might as well? (sorry for all of the questions)

If you're even thinking about it though, I'd suggest you save a little under two hundred bucks every 3 months and go ahead and get laser or IPL treatments for your facial hair before it turns lighter. This way you can at least get a teeny tiny taste of being TG'd and it would be more than dressing. Sheesh, that last sentence stank. I just mean if you take the baby steps maybe it will help you decide whether you should take the steps to transition sooner or never.

I've taken a few baby steps now to make myself more femme with my body and not just clothing. I still am allowing myself to maintain my male day to day life and I've noticed the desire to transition isn't as strong as it was when I was living my life as the natural bodied male I was born as. I realize I'd be unhappy living as a gal because I'd never really be a born GG. I'm also sure now that I don't feel like a gal trapped in a guy's body. I do know if I did transition I'd have a solid community of women who'd be there to support me though.

I was talking with Rikki and she told me of many gals who have had SRS and regret the decision only after the surgery. That's so sad, ya' know? You've given yourself quite a bit of time and that's a great thing. I'll be here if you need me. Accompanied by a zillion questions.

Beauty

how old are you Lorna ?

Like Beauty said thats a big statement to make , if you are serious you will need a very long time to think about it (I'm talking years).

In the end it comes down to what you really want , if thats the way you decide to go in the future the you will have my blessing

Hi Lorna--
This is a big subject you opened up, and forgive me if I only graze the surface of it. It sounds as though you think the need to transition will not be as much of a desire if you have the right partner. At least, that's one way I read your statement.

You already know that having partners did not make your early crossdressing go away, although it might have put it underground for awhile. I would see transition as very similiar--it is a need that is independent of what others may or may not be doing in your life. So I could see you finding the right partner, AND still needing to transition, for instance.

And I'm with Cathy on the second scenario--becoming a transwoman can make it harder to find love and acceptance. Not impossible, mind you, but definitely more work. It's also not a substitute for finding a partner, if that's what you want to do. I don't know if that's how you're thinking, but that's what your statement brings to my mind--"If I don't find A, then I'll do B instead." The two pursuits do not seem to have that much connection, for me, although they definitely affect each other.

This is a scattered statement, for sure. You and I could easily spend a whole evening talking this one out. But little bits and pieces you read here might add up to a bigger picture.
Love,
Anita

Hi Lorna,

Anita raises a very good point I think. My thought from reading your statement was that you must then consider transitioning as second best. Not really being what you desire. And that causes me to wonder if you would end up happy or content with that.

Love Darlene.

Just .02 but isn't this something to decide before you get married? It doesn't sound like the sort of decision that should be based on another person, or one that they should be confronted with after a committment of the magnitude of marriage has been made.

You sound like a nice person from your posts who someone should feel blessed to be partnered with in some way when it does happen.

Andrea

Hi girls, thanks for your feedback.

First and foremost - Ever since childhood I have considered transitioning. This is not something new. It may seem new to everyone here because I haven't really openly discussed it with anyone. Short of speaking with a therapist, I have kept it to myself, the way many keep general CDing to themselves. But it’s something that has been burning within for years. The other thing is that if I can’t meet Miss Right in a SEVEN YEAR period, then I’ll just have to accept the strong likelihood that I never will. I guess it’s just something I have to prepare myself to deal with. So why NOT transition at that point?

I’m constantly reading about how “lonely” the life of a TS can be. TSs are often outcast, ostracized, ridiculed and what have you. Well to be honest, that would be no different from my life now.

I’m not being pessimistic; I’m just being realistic.


Cathy – I agree; being over 40 is not an obstacle. However if I can’t establish a connection over a 7 year period, then there’s a serious problem. And my track record with women has never been to great in the past. I’ve gone years without even so much as a real date.

Beauty – This is honestly something that’s been on my brain for years – ever since childhood. I’ve just never discussed it with anyone before because I thought I’d be content with sparing myself the pain & expense and living a “normal” life. Well, I have never lived a normal life, and am slowly coming to the realization that it’s just not in the cards for me. And I honestly have nothing to lose.

Merinda – I turn 33 on the 18th. But as I mentioned above, transitioning has been on my mind since childhood. But I told myself that if I found a wife, then I can be just as happy with minor surgery here & there, but for the most part retaining my male gender.

Anita – finding love and acceptance has never been easy for any of us. But here I sit alone while everyone else has a spouse or an SO. Plus I already have to work hard enough at finding relationships, harder than the average person, CDing aside. I seriously don’t feel I have anything to lose.

Darlene – I don’t know; perhaps I’m just giving in to the peer pressure of the fact that everyone around he has someone in their life and that I don’t. I’m not trying to trivialize transitioning – it is a serious and major life decision NOT to be taken lightly. As I mentioned to Merinda, I told myself that if I found a wife, then I‘d be just as happy with minor surgery here & there, but for the most part retaining my male gender. It might not make sense or sound logical or even “intelligent”, but it’s what I feel. I honestly would be just as happy with a wife or g/f and minor surgeries, as I would being single for life & transitioning fully. I didn’t just wake up one morning & reach this decision out of the blue. I have been considering it for years. If anything, transitioning is my first choice. But I don’t want to be alone.

Andrea – Yes it is. That’s why I mentioned if I can’t establish a loving relationship in seven years, then I’ll focus my priorities elsewhere.


*** And ladies - if I still want to transition thereafter, then I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. In fact that would be something I would discuss with a potential mate UP FRONT. But the way my love life has been, I probably won't even have to worry.

Dear Lorna,

Hmmmmmm. This is a tricky one indeed. Needs much thought. From us all.

If you would be happier as a woman then it is the way to travel.

I become worried when I read of crossed people who regret their decision to transition. You are obviously interested in a hetro relationship with a woman (as are most of us) so perhaps putting an ultimatum to yourself is a way of punishing the world for not delivering Miss Right.

Now to the point. - how do you meet a potential wife and perhaps the mother of your children when most of the time is spent TGing? I do not want to sound harsh but really we do not make the most eligible husbands doing what we love to do. It is difficult enough to find a soul mate under the most ideal conditions but once we limit the prospects to GGs who accept us as TGs the field is considerably reduced.

I can tell by your posts that you are a caring lovely person so I certainly hope she comes along but please Lorna don't paint yourself into a corner you may one day regret.

Again if you are truly TS then go for it but do it for the right reasons.

Love,

Jan

Hi Jan, thanks for your reply.

First & foremost, I do not want children. Not now; not ever. Besides, I already have plenty of nieces and nephews & they're more than enough in terms of any kids that I want in my life.

Second, meeting Miss Right to fit the bill will not be an easy thing at all.

It's jst so strange - it just seems like in order for one to meet a mate nowadays, that one has to compromise who one is to a certain degree. I mean hey, what woman in her right mind is going to want a non-traditional male?

It's tough. But I have to believe that she is out there. And I must find her. I cannot be the only one who doesn;t want to settle into the standard generric "life".

*points at his wife Jassmine.*

I know you have probably heard this before Lorna, but it's the truth. I didn't believe it till I tried it.

Don't go looking. Don't wish for it constantly. Heck, don't even think about it.

Just be yourself. Literally. I swear that women can SMELL a guy that's wanting to date, or one that wants a wife. ;-P

If it's meant to be, then it'll happen. Just look at Elizabeth and Raven as well.

These women exist. There's probably several in your area. You just haven't met them yet due to looking at all the trees right in front of your nose instead of stepping back and enjoying the forrest that is life.

Now gimme a hug you wench!

Hi again Lorna,

Ahzz is really telling the truth. I had considered not being with anyone before, but I really decided that I wouldn't be with anyone when I met my wife. I had announced that I was going to be single forever and that I was going to dance the jig.

Then BAM! Hello love. It's so weird, I mean I've heard people say that's what happens before, but I mean it really happened to me. When I tried it before it was always words, but I had started making plans on vacations, visiting Vegas, doing this and that when cupid delivered a telegram saying he had other plans.

So, if everything is right. You're going to find her on your 40th birthday.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us!!!

Beauty

Boy Lorna can I relate to the loneliness and wanting to be married like everyone else and everything else you said about a prospective spouse. For so many years I wondered what was wrong with me and why couldn't I find a woman who would love me and who was not suicidal, homicidal or just terminally confused. At the time I was living with a guy who I was very close to although we were both straight and we used to talk about how if we were still living together in a few more years we would try to adopt a child which wasmost of all an indication of how disgusted we felt with the whole idea of romantic love.

And yes every woman I met wanted to change me into someone I was not. The list is too long to give you about how I should really have been someone else altogether.

This next part is jsut about me with no implications at all as to whether you need to change anything about yourself.



I made some fundamental changes about myself. Although this concerned my actions it was really something about how I was on the inside. For me it meant that I got sober with the help of 12 step programs and the support and love of a lot of other people also. Including one of those "terminally confused" women who did not want any romantic involvement with me. Decades later we are still close and she still wouldn't get involved with me if I was once more available. I have come to see she is right-we couldn't have stayed married for 5 minutes but we make great friends.

Gettting sober meant a lot more than not using. It meant an awful lot of changes which in the end did not change me at all but allowed me to be the person I really was and could not figure out how to be. It was a wierd process which is hard to describe so I won't go any further except to say it was 180 degrees different from all the other things I had experinced at the hands of religious organizations and the like.

What happened next was a big surprise which was that SHE appeared. Appeared when we both were ready. Courtship was long and difficult at times and yes there were things about the real me that she just didn't like. Some of these got resolved many years into marriage.

When I first meet my wife there was something about her that I really disliked along with the attraction I felt. I remember thinking about it an the answer came so clearly. It was to say to myself "now you know what happens when you go out with the women who really attract you. You seem to have a built in radar for women who are all wrong for you. Lets try something different. This dislike you feel is all about externals and how she is not cool enough. It is all about going out with women who are willing to be involved with the mess in your life vs. someone who your gut is telling you would have no patience for that sort of melodrama" And lo and behold I asked her out on a 2nd date and a year later we fianlly fell in love.

So anyway Lorna I am not trying to tell you what to do, in fact I have no idea what you should do. I have enough trouble figuring out what might be helpful to people I have known well for a long time.
Don't know if this is any help at all but the loneliness you seem to feel really struck a chord with me.

As for the transexual issue that is something I have no real experience with in terms of feeling like a woman in spite of the theatricallity of some of my posts. It certainly should be confusing in light of all the weight society assigns to this. I do think that one of the suggestions about therapy might be a good one. It certainly helped me. It was very important that I have the right one. In my case it is a funny mix of him not trying to fix anything about me because I am not broken and at the same time he will lead me to ask if I am being (as opposed to feeling or acting or whatever) foolish.


Hugs
Andrea

HI Lorna,

I won't talk you out of this. I have read enough of your posts to know that when you speak you usually think things through.

The ony thing I want to say is....

Lorna wrote:Hi Jan, thanks for your reply.
Second, meeting Miss Right to fit the bill will not be an easy thing at all.
It's jst so strange - it just seems like in order for one to meet a mate nowadays, that one has to compromise who one is to a certain degree. I mean hey, what woman in her right mind is going to want a non-traditional male?

Umm, I did. I don't know if that does not make 'me' in my right mind or not? And regardless of what anyone has said about that being one in a million, I don't think so. I meet women on the net and in real time who have said they are open to this. Yes maybe you have exhausted your tiny corner of the world, but the world is a big place. I moved 1700 miles for love.....

I know for a fact it can and does happen and I would like to think Amanda and I are living proof.

I also know (at least what I have read from your pasts posts) that you have dated girls who are okay with this. And I feel you will continue to meet women who are cool and acept you.

Anyway, I think 7 years is a good measure of time. And I do hope that you will find a kick backside girl and you rock her world.

sincerely
kathy in canada
(hopefull romantic)

Well, Hi Lorna!!! Guess I'll give you my .02 worth, since I have some personal experience with this stuff.

Based on the experiences of the 35 people in my support group and myself, your reasoning behind transitioning may be flawed. As Anita and Jan W. suggested, you sound almost like transitioning would be 2nd best in the hope it would change the balance somehow.

Most people with GID transition because there is just no other choice. It is a decision about whether they will continue to live, or not, and they generally are pleased with their choice since it removes a very big conflict that invades every part of their lives. I can't really describe that conflict, even though I have lived with it for so long. The best I can do is that you just don't feel complete, don't feel whole!!! And it always sits there in the back of your mind even when you are doing something enjoyable, like a monkey, a burden on your back. And then you find you have spent the entire day doing nothing but trying to divert yourself from thinking, and realize that you have been doing the same thing for WEEKS!

And sooner or later, you come up against THE WALL, and you know you don't care if you live or die, and then you think maybe death is preferable, as it is an end. If you survive the wall, either through intervention following an attempted suicide, or your own bedrock level of basic optimism or hope, you get a therapist, get on hormones and feel some balance in your life for the first time. Even then sometimes it can seem it varies between being stuck in snail snot without any progress, to riding a whirlpool, going faster and faster as you approach the center, your goal.

It seems that everyone has their own wall; for some it comes early, for some later. If you are GID, you may be a ways from hitting your wall if you think you can put it all on hold and wait for a relationship. On the other hand, if you can start talking with a therapist, you may be able to avoid the WALL altogether and ease into transition. If you have been butting heads with the wall already, find a therapist and let any interpersonal relationship that may come happen or not. Your going to be busy anyway.

Most transitioners who regret the transition (about 3% to the best of my therapist's understanding- She has had one out of 60) are often people who can't let go of the male privilege they lost, even though they are gender dysphoric; find themselves tied to the family they have had and still feeling guilty for transitioning and upsetting their lives; are mis-diagnosed with or without their own unconscious duplicity; or deliberately deceive a therapist becasue they think transition will "cure" all their problems. This, of course doesn't happen, as instead they find they have another entire suite of problems related to being a woman (employability, social standing, being taken seriously in a work environment, the glass ceiling, prejudice) in addition to being suddenly again the wrong gender and regretting transition. Regardless, they always blame the therapist!

The support group I mentioned above is about evenly mixed between M2F and F2M. One married her current SO just before transitioning, but after her divorce from hir first wife. They have been able to stay together, but acknowledge that at times there is tension. Several others have found SOs since they began transition. One M2F and her SO are bi, and in the other case of M2F, the SO is male and loved the person before finding out they were transitioning, but while they were living in their new role. In other words, they never knew the person as a male, only as a female with a bit of a birth defect. Two of the F2Ms have SOs, and one of them has been with his SO since before even hormones, and the other has met the F2M in the last 6 months during transition. One of the other F2Ms has lived in a, well technically, lesbian realtionship for 13 years, and has a kid from a previous marriage that will have nothing to do with them. Most (there are four including your humble servant who are exceptions) married have had children in the natural course of events, thinking that would "cure" them, or at least give them motivation to be part of a "normal" life. Lorna, based on their experiences, marriage and/or kids just doesn't eliminate the need to transition, and may only slightly delay it. But like CDing, it just won't go away.

And it seems that most people with GID do find it hard to maintain a realationship with the opposite apparent gender, especially M2Fs. It is like the ggs unconsciously realize after so long a time that there is something going on, and unless it is to their liking or they are set in the traditions of marriage, they will find a way out. It can also be the behavior of the unhappy sufferer that will bring it to a head. The GID, especially near the wall, can make one grouchy and hard to live with, contrary, and generally a SOB, though not often violent within the family.

If you need to transition, you will not put others or a possible nebulous future relationship before satisfying that need. It is an incredible investment of time, money, emotion and loss, and you must be certain that is what you have to do, because if you find out it was a mistake after the final surgery, that's just too bad. On the other hand if, as you age, the dysphoria becomes primary and you find your wall without the help of a therapist (as it has with most of the people in the support group) because you do need to transition, then it will happen no matter the status of your personal relationships with others.

If you truly believe this will likely be your future, the time to start is now in your thirties, not in 7 years when the hormones will be less effective. So if you really think this is you, chunk whatever money you can in a therapist's pocket now, and talk your head off and tell him or her just how you FEEL, including any ambivalence you may have. There has been a lot of stuff written by people that don't like therapists, but the best will help you really come to an understanding of your true needs.

Well, OK, so I rambled. Just be sure, Lorna, about what you want vs. what you need.

Love, Carolynn