Crossdressers-Haven.com

Hi all,

On another forum I ran across a thread that really has caused me to look at cross-dressing in another light to the way I have in the past.

The title of the thread is something like: “Who dresses more feminine you or your wife?

Most of the responses were that we do.

I was lead to ask the question: How in the world can a woman be more feminine than she already is?

In other words the clothes do not make a woman feel more like who they are. The clothes they wear are a combination of what some men would like them to wear, and what they (each individual woman) wants to wear.

However that is not the same situation with us cross-dressers. We do not wear what men would like us to wear, or for that matter what most women would like to see us wear. We wear what we would like to wear.

So if the clothes do not make us feminine: What do we feel when they are on our body? I certainly don’t feel the same when I am not in their clothes. My body is soft when I am in woman’s clothing. I am not soft naked or in men’s clothing. But a woman’s body is soft naked.

Today women’s clothes provide that for me, and I enjoy that experience. No one can convince me that a man should not be allowed to feel that way. I acknowledge that at earlier stages in my life I felt other things while wearing woman’s clothes. And that there still is (at times) a sexual feeling that is no longer near as strong as it at one time was.

I wonder how much influence ones culture has had on making this my reality? I have no peace with the popular opinion that I was created as a woman. If I were... would I not be able to feel like one naked? I can however accept the opinion that I am this way as a result of a corrupt world, and that my creator has worked with me to turn it into a blessing.

Your thoughts please?

Darlene.

Hi Darlene,

I don't understand something. What does you having no clothes on have to do with what you're saying? I know you were using it to illustrate something, but I didn't make the connection.

I also don't understand something you said about being soft. You said you are soft in women's clothing or you're not soft in women's clothing with no clothes on?

See.. I need help. Ok, I always need help, but I need more help.

Thanks!

Beauty

Beauty wrote:Hi Darlene,

I don't understand something. What does you having no clothes on have to do with what you're saying? I know you were using it to illustrate something, but I didn't make the connection.

I also don't understand something you said about being soft. You said you are soft in women's clothing or you're not soft in women's clothing with no clothes on?

See.. I need help. Ok, I always need help, but I need more help.

Thanks!

Beauty

Hi Beauty,

The reason I enjoy wearing woman’s clothing is due to the reality that it makes my body feel relaxed; all my muscles are soft to the touch. And I guess you could say that I feel sensuous. (not sure if that is the right word)

When ever I have touched a woman that is the way they feel (appear) to me.

If I was created as a woman or with a feminine side, why am I unable to feel that way naked? Why does it take the clothes in order for me to feel that way? Clothes were made by man not our creator.

I believe the reason that wearing woman’s clothing feels so right is due to the fact that the way we feel is the way we were meant to feel, but something got in the way that prevents many men from feeling that way or in other words prevents many of them from getting some of their basic needs met.

And I also suspect there are other ways of meeting those needs. But that only one way is available for each individual.


Love Darlene.

Hi Darlene,

I see the light!

Your question is kind of interesting because there are males out there (TG'd) who don't have to do what I do like take t-blockers and have laser hair removal or even something I haven't done like take female hormones to feel softer without needing the clothing. So I guess I cheated. I do feel softer, even will no clothes on now because there's no testosterone racing through my body. So the clothes have become less important to me except for style reasons.

The thought of me coming home and getting made up these days is different than it was about this time last year. Now I look at it as more of a task. I was talking with CJ about this the other day on the phone.

My skin is softer, I don't have to shave anymore and some of my masculine features have retreated because of the combination of laser hair removal and the t-blocker. My legs and underarms are always shaved and so I feel feminine all the time underneath. The only time I don't feel feminine now is if I look in the mirror or use the room of rest.

The people I think are the coolest are the people who didn't need to make the changes that I have and still feel feminine all the time. Like I said, I'm cheating. Those who do not do anything to their bodies and feel femme all the time are just incredible.

On this side of the fence I can totally understand why I dressed more. For every few minutes that I was dressed in my femme attire I spent that many more hours as a masculine guy. It makes sense to me that I needed the release of clothing that stripped away any masculine identity and let me be the other part of myself. Without the clothing there's NO WAY I'd have ever felt feminine/softer. Sorry for the all caps no way. I promise that was just for me.

So I needed the clothing. I had to have the clothing for my inner self to identify with the softness of a woman. Even if it wasn't skin, it was my mind that softened. It had to. I was/am a guy in a dress after it's all said and done.

This was a great thread Darlene. I can't wait to read what others have to say! Thank you so much for explaining what you meant. It totally made sense to me.

Beauty

There are a number of traits shared by men and women thought by many to be feminine. Nurturing, gentileness, or able to cry at a sad movie, to name a few. Question is, since men also have these traits, why are they called feminine, instead of simply just human traits?

I reckon some traits are considered to be feminine because more women than men exhibit them, but some men do exhibit them. And truth be told, a fair number of men exhibit them.

So, if we define these traits to be feminine, aren't we, as a society, forcing men who exhibit them to think of themselves as less than a man? Or reinforcing society to think that way? Does that not put pressure on boys to 'act like men', and force them to hide some of their shared natural human qualities?

If we think of nurturing or gentleness as human instead of feminine, then men may be more inclined to develop those aspects of themselves. If we think of boldness and assertiveness as human instead of masculine, then women may feel welcome to foster those aspects of themselves. We will all benefit from having more freedom to be the individuals we are.

Now, to be fair, I do throw the label 'feminine' around. However, I reckon I do this to identify a number of things society considers to be exclusive to women, such as describing a pair of high heels or a dress. However, I don't think wearing that dress makes one particularly feminine. I put on a dress, and it's just me in a dress. May change the way I feel, but it doesn't make me feel more feminine than I already am.

Women wear pants, and item of clothing considered to be 'masculine', but does that take away from a woman's natural femininity? Of course not. How can we take away one's natural traits by changing the clothes they wear?

For some, wearing clothes designed for women does make them feel more feminine, but I think that is because it amplifies those traits already there, but hidden because of what society considers masculine of feminine. I don't think it makes them more feminine.

And for some, it takes a little more than wearing clothes designed for women to feel feminine.

However, as I mentioned, the clothes don't make me feel more feminine. Maybe I'm missing out? Don't know if I am or not, but I do know I like to dress up.

However, as I mentioned, the clothes don't make me feel more feminine. Maybe I'm missing out? Don't know if I am or not, but I do know I like to dress up.

OK then Donna what does that do for you? What is the pay off for choosing to live a life where you could be ridiculed etc? What is the motivation?

Love,
Darlene.

Hey Donna,

As you can see I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree. I really didn't understand most of your post. I read and re-read and but I just could grasp what you were saying really.

You are right you did throw the word feminine around a lot, but like CD'ing I think it's fine that you did. I think if you ask 10 people about feminine ...

The last two paragraphs/sentences I thought were the most revealing. I agree for some it does take more than wearing clothes to feel feminine. I think it's interesting the clothes don't make you feel feminine, but I may understand better when I understand what you mean when you use the word.

The first part of the post sounded less like feminine and more like stereotypes. I don't think any woman who cries at a movie feels more feminine. Nurturing being feminine? I don't think a lot of single dads would feel that's feminine. That's being a loving parent. Describing a pair of heels isn't feminine, is it? Gentleness? Well.. I guess I can see that, but I'm wincing a bit. Not because I think you're incorrect, but because I don't understand.

I feel the traits you described aren't feminine because my definition of feminine is a presence. It's not actions really. Women, to me are innately feminine, but some choose not to be overly feminine or not feminine at all.

When I see my wife sleeping she looks so feminine. When she walks she walks so feminine. Her presence just oozes of femininity, but she also has traits that are very womanlike. The way she is around kids, her reactions to events whether stressful or happy are more like what my women friends tell me they talk about when they get together and draw the wonderful line between men and women. I don't think that's being feminine. I just think they are ladies being ladies.

For me when the lines become to firm we've gone to far. I don't think feminine can be defined as easily as masculine. Of course that's par for the course with men.

Beauty

Darlene wrote:OK then Donna what does that do for you? What is the pay off for choosing to live a life where you could be ridiculed etc? What is the motivation?

What does it do for me? Satisfies my urges, the need to dress.

I don't worry about being ridiculed.

What is the motivation? If I knew the answer to that Darlene. . . does anyone, really? Something I was born with I reckon.

What is the motivation? If I knew the answer to that Darlene. . . does anyone, really?

Yes I do Donna.

The reason I enjoy wearing woman’s clothing is due to the reality that it makes my body feel relaxed; all my muscles are soft to the touch. And I guess you could say that I feel sensuous.

Darlene.

Beauty, I used the word in the context that it is most generally used.

I imagine the definintion of 'feminine' can mean different things to different people.

If someone were to call a man feminine, what would be your idea of why they called him that?

What I was saying, is that men and women share more traits than some may think. What some people generally attribute to women has been termed 'feminine' traits. And you're right, they are stereotypes.

To me, however they are merely human characteristics, not necessarily feminine or masculine.

I don't think any woman who cries at a movie feels more feminine.

I don't think any woman who cries at a movie feels more feminine either. I think that some people in our society think that a man crying is not a real man, and is is instead feminine.

Nurturing being feminine? I don't think a lot of single dads would feel that's feminine. That's being a loving parent. . . Gentleness?

My point exactly, they aren't feminine, but stereotypically, they are.

Describing a pair of heels isn't feminine, is it?

No, but heels have been described as being feminine looking. But then you have to ask what does feminine mean. In the context of such a description, feminine would mean, for example, pretty.

I think it's interesting the clothes don't make you feel feminine, but I may understand better when I understand what you mean when you use the word.

They don't make me feel feminine because I don't really know what feeling feminine is.

What does feeling feminine mean?

Hey Donna,

If I had understood you didn't know what feeling feminine felt like I could have saved you the time from having to post. Sorry about that!

I understand pretty much where you're coming from. Thank you for your honesty. It's good to see we agree more than disagree too.

Have a great night!

Beauty

Hi all,

If you are not sure, or have different definition of what it means to feel feminine feel free to share it, but for the purpose of this thread can we respond to what has been quoted below in reference to being Feminine?

Darlene wrote: What do we feel when they are on our body? I certainly don’t feel the same when I am not in their clothes. My body is soft when I am in woman’s clothing. I am not soft naked or in men’s clothing. But a woman’s body is soft naked.

The reason I enjoy wearing woman’s clothing is due to the reality that it makes my body feel relaxed; all my muscles are soft to the touch. And I guess you could say that I feel sensuous.

Beauty wrote: Without the clothing there's NO WAY I'd have ever felt feminine/softer. Sorry for the all caps no way. I promise that was just for me.

So I needed the clothing. I had to have the clothing for my inner self to identify with the softness of a woman. Even if it wasn't skin, it was my mind that softened. It had to. I was/am a guy in a dress after it's all said and done.

Thanks in advance.
Darlene.

I think that it's a matter of what beliefs were stamped in our brain as we grew up as to what constitutes feminine and what is not so feminine or what constitutes masculine. Our visual perception of what feminine or masculine looks like instantly identifies feminine or masculine in our thoughts when we first look at a person, an article of clothing or any other thing which we as individuals associate with either.

Personally I really have absolutely no idea how any other person, male or female, feels as far as them being female, male, feminine or masculine. As far as the three women in my life goes (wife and 2 daughters), clothes certainly don't add or detract that much from their femininity or femaleness. The three of them rarely wear dresses or skirts, preferring pants of varying styles and materials, but the clothing in no way detracts from their femaleness as all three turn their fair share of heads whilst walking down the street.

I'm probably different to most because although I accept I am biologically a male, from my earliest memories I wish I'd been born female and I feel very strongly that life would have been much better had I been. I don't promote my maleness at all and I've taken steps to repress that side and promote femaleness, physically, cosmetically and emotionally. I'm a firm believer that there are no rights or wrongs with clothing or how we feel, it's a matter of the individual's rights and happiness. There's an old, old saying that clothes don't maketh the man and to take that further I'd add, the woman either. Whether clothes promote femininity within us I suppose is debateable. Clothes to me are not that important in the mix of it all, there are more important issues for me, but having said that, the appearance female clothes gives sure does marry how I look with how I feel inside.


Culture does have a big influence on how we present, as we just have to look at the national dress of countries around the world. Personally womens clothes don't make me feel any more female or feminine as I can't explicitly define the difference in how a man or woman feels either way. All I know is how I feel and always felt and I can't say whether those feelings are typical of how females feel or not. Of course how I dress does bring a peace because I dress the way I learned from childhood of the accepted clothes a female wears.

If for argument sake I had the choice of two identical articles of clothing, lets say a shirt, both the identical cut, colour, material etc. but one was made intentionally for women and one made for men, I would choose the one made for women, because of the intent it was made, if that makes any sense. I've talked this feminine feeling thing out with many people over the years, from those who wear female clothes purely for the fun of it all right up to fully blown TS's and there is never a defining point anyone comes up with. Feminine to me just is, it's not something which one can touch or feel, it's like a spiritual aura which people align to in various ways, ideas, feelings and thoughts.

My suggestions to people are always to go with what makes you happiest. If a particular article, vision or thought creates a good, happy, peaceful satisfying feeling within you then that's right for you. What we wear, think or do may not necessarily be right for anyone else and to me there is no stereotype of feminine which applies across the board. To me it's how the individual perceives it and how they react to that perception regarding how they feel, dress, act etc, so that their perception of feminine and how they want to apply it to their individual circumstances produces the greatest positive effect on their well being and their life.

I remember a few years ago I was having a cup of coffee with a friend who was mid way through transition and she commented to me that on that particular day she felt more feminine than she'd ever felt. I asked her what she exactly meant by 'feeling more feminine' and apart from the usual comments of soft, sensual, loving, vulnerable etc (which can all apply to males also) she was unable to pin point her feelings exactly. She finished up by saying that it was just a feeling she had which felt right and made her feel good. I can relate to how taking female hormones and supressing testosterone levels does change our emotional state as the brain adjusts to a dominance of female hormones over male ones, but even after years of taking them I still can't say whether 'feminine' applys more now than before to my emotional state or my overall general state of being, all I can say is what I've done, achieved and how I present, act and live my life makes me a very happy and content person and I think that's the most important goal we can achieve, whether we are a male or female or whether we choose to live our life presenting as a combination of both.

So, to sum up, I'd suggest I can't define what 'feeling feminine' feels like. Sure, I've developed very soft skin to the touch, plus other attributes usually associated with females, but has it given me a new perception of feminine? I don't think so. All I can say is that I can relate to someone referring to a woman and saying, she looks feminine or she has a masculine look about her, and that picture is conjured up in my mind because of how I was raised from early childhood of what a woman looks like and what she does, wears etc, but that is just a visual thing, it's not a feeling and although in the past I myself have made the remark regarding feeling my levels of femininity, I can't define it as a tangible thing, it's a presence, an aura, a spiritual feeling if you like, not a tangible thing.

It's interesting how we're all 'in the same boat' to a degree but think and feel so differently, that's the price of being human, not male or female but

Kind Regards,

Sally.

Hey, Girls, Kinda goes right to the heart of why we crossdress, huh?. I can only speak for Virginia. When I first decided I had a "problem = crossdressing," I, like a lot of you began to try and educate myself on why a (world class powerlifter) would want to wear women's clothing. As I read more and more, it began to dawn on me that I had had these repressed feminine feelings for quite some time, perhaps all my life up to this time. That is things like holding back the tears in a movie, wanting to hug someone who was sad, caring about how my skin looked, listening to people and caring about what they said, spending too much time shopping for clothes, etc., etc., I can confirm that I had those feelings, but I WAS TOO MACHO to even acknowledge them - repress, supress, whatever it took to be a man. Cursing, cutting people off in traffic or mid-sentence. Don't take crap off no one!!
Now these feminine feelings began to manifest themselves, stronger and stronger and I learned that "they ain't all that bad!" People treat you better when you are nice to them, listen to them, careful - but touch them or God forbid - actually hug them! That's the Anima!!! I now carry those admonisitions with me all the time, dressed or not! The beauty of it is that I have repressed those "manly" aspects, BUT, don't f... with me because they are just below the surface and as it was written in my high school year book: "It is not good to wake a sleeping lion." Who wrote above: "I am just a guy in a dress" True, anyway you cut it that is all that we are, but....damn, some of us look good in dresses!!!!!
What dressing does for me is does allow me the "softness, gentleness and feminity" that I love to exzude, the walk, the poise, the potrail of the feminine form, then comes the smell (perfume) the (hopefully) grace and presentation. The feeling of stockings, bra, tight skirt, high heels. Those assets combined with the emotional aspect make-up Virginia and as I have said, she is me, I am her we love eachother and we are definitely enjoying"Our Magical Mystery Tour!"
Love you all,
Virginia

Hey everyone,

Sorry to interrupt again. I just really wanted to say that I love and respect you all so very much.

I don't think I can define femininity or do I know if I feel it, if it's even real. What I can tell you I do feel is the love and admiration I have for all of the people who post in these threads.

I hope above any of my own narrow minded opinions you all know that first.

Beauty