In your face!

[CJ]

Hi all,

A simple question: what is the difference, if any, between our being "in your face" about our gender variance and our being "up front" about it?

Love,
CJ

[Sally]

Hi CJ,

I align 'in your face ' as a term used to convey an aggressive, forceful, belligerent take it or leave it attitude.

I align 'up front' more as being a gentler term used to convey being open and honest.

I suppose it depends on the intent either term is used and what it's meant to convey at the time and how we personally use either term.

Kind Regards,

Sally.

[Elizabeth]

Hi CJ,

Unfortunately one person's "up front" is another person's "in your face". When it comes to crossdressing one only need to know if the person approves or disapproves of crossdressing. One will consider you "up front", the other will consider you "in thier face".

I can't help but think of George Carlin's routine about driving. He said "you ever notice how anyone who is driving slower than you is an idiot and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac?"

It would seem this is true of all sorts of things, like tolerance for instance? Or how much dressing is too much, or how much makeup is too much. It seems or own opinion is just right.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Lydia]

Hi CJ,

You have touched upon an interesting aspect of human communication. Almost everything we say or write has some ambiguity to it. In scientific writing we try to be as precise as possible, but this is not so in ordinary communication, spoken or emailed. We have to consider what the response and interpretaion of the receiver might be, i.e., the "semantic reaction." In spoken communication, the total meaning is revealed by facial expression, intonation, gestures, body language. In email, smilies help, but minimally. Context, of course, plays a major role in the semantic reaction. Even the current mood of the receiver will alter the way in which a seemingly simple statement will be interpreted.

In reading the posts in this forum, for example, there have been cases where the real intent of the writer was misconstrued. Email is a dangerously laconic means of communication, and the reader has to be as aware of that as the writer.

Thus, in one context "in your face" can have a gentler effect than "up front."

Hugs [literally or figuratively?]

Willy

[Dixie Darling]

CJ,

Just as a matter of my own opinion, "In your face" would be flaunting crossdressing or forcing the concept on others whether they want to know/hear anything about it or not. On the other hand, being "Up front" about it would appear to mean that one is ready and willing to admit that they're a CD and would like to discuss it, but isn't going so far as to force their attitudes and opinions on others.

Dixie

[DonnaT]

I agree with Sally on this one.

[Lydia]

`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'
`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master-- that's all.'
Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. `They've a temper, some of them-- particularly verbs, they're the proudest--adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs--however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'
`Would you tell me, please,' said Alice `what that means?'
`Now you talk like a reasonable child,' said Humpty Dumpty, looking very much pleased. `I meant by "impenetrability" that we've had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well if you'd mention what you mean to do next, as I suppose you don't mean to stop here all the rest of your life.'
`That's a great deal to make one word mean,' Alice said in a thoughtful tone.
`When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, `I always pay it extra.'

--------
Willy

[CJ]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies.

This whole "in your face" vs. "up front" thing is something that's been on my mind, lately. I quite agree with Elizabeth; it's a conundrum, given that one man's milk is another man's poison.

Last year, my dad's wife came up to me at some point during my stay at their home and told me, "You know, I wanted to thank you for not being so 'in your face' with us about your sexuality." How can I be "in your face"? I'm 44 years old and I've had to hide my sexuality (more properly, my gender identity) from everyone around me for the last forty years--even as I'm being constantly bombarded by "in your face" heteronormative and "genderly-correct" mass advertizing and popular culture imagery.

I cannot recognize myself anywhere in the culture I grew up in; I'm not gay, I'm not a flamboyant drag queen, I'm not a transsexual scholar. I'm invisible. It's a minor miracle that, in these circumstances, I've managed to find my self at all--despite my culture's aggressive and unmerciful promotion of sexual and gender conformity.

The little restaurant I used to go to, en femme, in my old neighbourhood, was sold several months ago. After having let the new owner see, over a period of several days, that I was an assiduous and faithful customer, I went up to him and showed him photos of myself as Christina, telling him that this is also who I am and that I occasionally came here like this and that the other customers knew and were okay with it. I asked him if he was okay with the idea. He said no, he wasn't, and would prefer me not to do this. And I never did, even though I thereafter remained a faithful customer of his (and we even became 'friends' of sorts).

Was this an "in your face" attitude on my part? or was I merely being "up front" about who I am?

When I tried, last month, to discuss who I am with my father, he refused. He framed the whole issue as being one of the private, individual realm vs. the public, social one. In his own words: "Whenever you play with your 'private/public scale', you also play with that of others. And others resent that. Be prepared to shoulder the responsibility for your own unhappiness in this world because your 'up front' attitude will make you a martyr in a lost cause; the sexes are as they are since times immemorial and for a good reason." End of discussion. I got the feeling that what I thought of as my drive for self-expression he looked at as a brash flaunting of my abnormality. I now face a challenge: I no longer feel I can be "up front" about who I am with my own father. This has considerably decreased my interest in maintaning my relationship with him. I can feel it in me: "in your face" is changing into "out of your face"--away, as far away, as I can get from him. His loss and mine, both.

It saddens me that, in a culture that values individuality-in-diversity, I keep running into this kind of hypocritical stance whereby that individuality is acceptable only insofar as it doesn't force the majority to re-examine its own beliefs and moral opinions about what it means to be human.

In your face? These days, only when I look in a mirror. I look into my own eyes and what I see is a flower covered by a boulder.

Love,
CJ

[Lydia]

Hi CJ,

Sorry for my semantic digression, but I can understand your dilemma - a common one in this place. My fear of going public CD is being ridiculed or abused. So far only my SO knows, and cooperates fully. (I am lucky) How my friends and colleagues would react is a mystery to me. I guess that is why some of us are so anxious to "pass." That way we avoid the problem. Call me coward.

Best,

Willy

[Virginia]

First: ELIZABETH - I LOVE YOUR HAIR - WHAT A GREAT LOOK! Very feminine!!!!!
Second: I will let Dixie speak for me: "In your face!" I preceive as dressed and read and "screw you if you can't handle it."
The other, "being up front," is that I am open to intelligent discussion, whether I am dressed or not!
Love,
Virginia

[CJ]

Hi all,

Willy,

Absolutely no need to apologize. As pretty much everyone here knows, semantic digressions are very much a part of my own unguilty pleasures!

Love,
CJ

[Lydia]

CJ,

This illustrates my point. When I first saw your post that started this thread, I assumed you were talking about the expressions, not thie operations. That's why I waxed semantic.

Willy

[Kathy]

Hi CJ,

I have to agree with Sally, Dixie and Elizabeth.

Some years ago, my parents were spending a week at a campground about an hour's drive from here. Since I'd have the house to myself, I took some vacation time to spend at home dressing up. One day, my father decided he needed something so he drove back home. I never heard him pull up. He walked in the door and there I was in a tank top and skirt. While it was unintentional, I would say that I was "in his face". In the years after that, I was never able to talk to him about it. He wanted no part of that side of me and refused to discuss it. He passed away in February and, to this day, I have no idea what he really thought or how he felt.

A bit more than a week ago, I wrote a letter to my mother, sister and brother. I told them "up front" about my dressing. Since then, I have been free to wear more of my "femme" tops and slacks around the house. But my mother would prefer that I not wear a skirt or dress in her presence. She feels that would be too much "in her face". Under the circumstances, I am happy with our compromise.

In your face or up front... it all depends on the situation and the people involved.

Love,
Kathy

[Anita]

Hi CJ--
Your post about your father made me understand the original question a little more. I've also run into people who were kind enough to tell me that just dressing AT ALL was "in your face" in their communities. Yet I doubt these same people would have said this if they had run into me dressed as Anita--they would have been polite. Maybe they would have said something weeks later.

It comes to me that one of the biggest reasons they would feel resentful is because they don't understand what is going on. They really don't know how to respond to someone who goes so far outside the norm for their town. I'd like to think that being pleasand and "normal" would make them feel more at ease, but I haven't tried that yet. And I know that people can be outwardly polite and yet angry inside, and I would not want to cause pain like that if I could help it.

In my area, San Francisco, I see "in your face" as dressing in such a way that no one can be sure of your gender at all. People may not like my dressing, but at least they know I'm "supposed" to be a woman. There is some comfort in this for people, strange as it may seem to say it.

The most general definition of "up front", for me, would be talking about dressing, but not doing it around people. Anything more than that can quickly become "face." Yet I want to believe that I'm not forcing
this onto people around me, by going out. I'm not going to stop doing it, but you've certainly made me think today.

[Carolynn]

Oh WOW C.J.
I am so very sorry your conversation with your father last month was so very negative and unsatisfying for you. You have written of your hopes to have a conversation full of real communication several times. I do want you to know that you are not alone. From my face to face contact with people with gender conflict or variance, it appears we all go through this with natal family sooner or later, sometimes a number of times. My first time I was 10 years old, and I quit trying after I was 14. I very well understand where your feelings of disappointment and rejection spring from, after you have opened yourself to someone you love and respect, and desire the same love and respect for yourself in return. And then you don’t get it. It is very natural to want to withdraw from the relationship in self defense. It is hurtful, and removing yourself from the risk of future hurt is a common reaction. I guess there is always risk in our communications with others, no matter how strong the link seems or is supposed to be. You are a very insightful person C.J., and I am sure you already know all this, but just so you know you are not by yourself……….

As far as in-your-face vs. upfront, well I think I agree with Sally, and with CJ. It's by and large a matter of attitude. On the other hand, there are a lot of folks that present themselves according to their self image all the time. I have friends that have never been on a horse (except maybe the one at the supermarket when they were 6) that wear cowboy boots, hats and other western gear, and drive a pick up truck, and that is their self image and the symbols they use to let others know. For some reason it is acceptable to be drugstore cowboys and drive pickup trucks that never leave the highway, while going out crossdressed is seen as an in-your-face flaunting of who you are--ie, not part of the normative culture. And that is the hypocritical key. It is also more acceptable for the young to be more in-your-face with their experiments in their self-identiities, regarded usually with amusement by most "normal" folks.

Up front would be a person taking a new job, but letting the people hiring know that they expect to be offered a different job in another location that they will want, and they plan to leave if they are. That happens often in academia. Reluctantly Up front would be me as I may soon have to be. At present, a t-shirt I would have worn last summer would now reveal I have small breasts with or without a bra. I use larger size t-shirts that still hide the development for now, since I need to maintain my job. However, they will keep on keepin' on, and I have decided that if somebody notices something and I'm asked, I will answer the question affirmatively, but will only elaborate if I am asked for an explanation for now. But I do not expect to go to this job "dressed". It would be a case of being in-the-face to our normal clients, and distressing to some, and affect the image of the office. 'Taint fair, but that's life.

Please, be well C.J. and all.

Carolynn