Crossdressers-Haven.com

Virginia wrote:Maggie,
I can identify with your being Maggie for Maggie. That is the way I am with Virginia. She has to be and that means that I gotta be. I know Darlene has mentioned in other threads that that is just not her and she has trouble grasping how we (you and I ) feel toward Maggie and Virginia. but I know how I feel and based on what you have said I understand how you feel. I do not however understand when you say that, you "don't like being stuck in this situation......." Honey we part company there, cause I Love IT!
Just keep the faith, girlfriend!
Virginia

Hi Virginia,

I am just like Darlene, I can't really understand when people talk about themselves in the third person either. I realize people who do are smart, not mentally disturbed, and can be loving just like the next person. So it's just a "thing", but it still drives me absolutely batty.

I asked my wife if there was a better way to say this, but she couldn't think of one so I'm just being honest. I can't stand it!!!

I love you very much Virginia. I don't care how you refer to yourself. I'd welcome you into my home anytime, converse with you, listen to you, and talk to you for hours. This has nothing to do with judgement of you as a whole. It's more like something I equate to people who pop their necks. Insert the same Airplane scenarios that I include below.

So, I'll say it again because I think it's important to repeat. It doesn't mean I don't love you any less, it just when you start talking about yourself as another person I want to jump out of a window like someone would do in the movie Airplane. Like when Striker starts talking about his life and you come back and the person has hung themselves or is pouring gasoline on themselves, or turned into a skeleton.

On another forum someone actually started a thread about it and I chimed in about how it drives me batty. I wasn't alone, but the vote wasn't unanimous. So I realize that you and people like you are real and have feelings and will cope how you see fit.

So why? Why does it make me want to shake you until you wake up? Why do I think you'll wake up when I finish shaking you? The only thing I can think of is because to me (and I'm far from the Queen of "Always Right"), doing this about being TG'd is the most obvious form of denial I've ever witnessed and because I feel seeing someone make this separation is also something I'd expect a guy to do. Guys do it all the time. Things they don't want to admit they talk about them as if they are another entity all together. I think that's were "my femme side" came from, a guy. They can't say it's part of them, it has to be another entity.

Another thing worth repeating is this is just my opinion and because, like an idiot, I held this in for so long I'm being as dramatic as someone in a soap opera and I apologize a billion times over if I have offended anyone because I can accept this and not love you any less. Hopefully that doesn't mean it can't still drive me batty.

So I want this post to be productive and not just me saying how much I want to drive a cartoon arrow through my heart when I read or hear a CD'r talking about themselves in 3rd person. So, in the dramatic soap opera fashion I've portrayed so well in this post, I plead with you to help those of us (especially me ) who are clueless why you talk about yourselves as people who call yourself another name although it's you why you do it.

I would be really appreciative of everyone if you wouldn't try to explain for someone who speaks in a third person, but let those who do talk about themselves in the 3rd person narrative speak for themselves. I can come up with my own reasons. However! If you must try to explain to me why, please don't stop yourself from typing because I you feel I won't think you can enlighten me. As usually what usually happens, I am wrong a lot. If you think you can enlighten me then I'll take any medication for this, write away!

Thanks and again I'm am so sorry if this was wrong, but I have to understand. Thanks for listening. Now, can you help me understand? Please?

:: wow.. who took this load off my chest ::

Beauty

Hi all,

Beauty,

Christina feels that way, too, sometimes. It puzzles her when people do this. But, as you asked, she'll let people who speak of themselves in the third person speak of themselves.



Love,
CJ

Ok, Honey, I have had my two cups of coffee this morning, the guys in the basement are making it sound like a war zone, I have easy listening Jazz on the radio, (I'm en drab - sorry 'bout that). What was the question?
Oh yes. - Well to begin with this is a first - You may well remember I have been taken to the wood shed by several GG's here - once when I was at the movies and was called a "slut" and bragged (maybe too strong a term) but the fact that I had passed, elated me, the GG's were offended that the term "slut" was used as a description and I was not offended! I have not been taken to the wood shed by, dare I say, "my own kind!"
First, I must ask if it bothers you that I use the third person as semantics or that perhaps that is how I see my relationship with (Virginia) myself. I guess we can have a relationship with ourselves as has been suggested, we have our Ego and our Id both of which are submissive to the "Self." So how many people actually reside inside this beautiful body?
I am not making light of your "concern" well maybe I am to some degree.

You know that I respect you soooo much and you don't hurt my feelings at all by your constructive crtiticisms. Let me say this, as a competitive athlete, when I am in a powerlifting competition my attitude is that if you are a glutton for punishment, and have the guts to come up against me - bring it on, 'cause I am going to do everything I can to kick your sweet backside! And believe it or not I can sense Virginia urging me on in my mind!
Now is that sick or what??
Now you stand me in front of a mirror in Virginia mode and I (no offense to any of my sisters) but I don't see a guy in a dress, I see what I see and that is a beautiful woman who wants to go out have a good time, be treated like a lady and she wants to return kindness in turn. However, I don't think (I hope) it would ever happen, but if a physical confrontation might arise, I am the last person someone would want to mess with. That part of me/Virginia, lies just below the surface. Good, bad or indifferent that is the way it is! Women/GG's (and Virginia) have every right to be competitive, confrontational, protective of themselves and those around them, as well as gentle, demure, sweet, kind, sexy, etc.
This has given me a chance to dwell on your "concern" for my third person and now the more I think about it - I guess I do it primarily for emphasis - yes, to emphasis what I am saying! Like the Bob Newhart skit when he is a psychologist who claims to be able to cure any problem with just three words:"Just stop it!" I get the point, Beauty! I will try! As you know I am not as articulate as you and a lot of my sisters, so I guess you will just have to bear with me as I "transistion" out of third person. I may slip up every now and then, but try I will. So for me it is semantics, hopefully not some sick, twisted, demented crossdresser who needs to be back on their medication and in a rubber room!!
Love ya, Beauty!
Virginia

Beauty, I think that we are all different, to some extent, in the way in which we are transgendered. I think that, in order to communicate accurately and honestly, we each must write about ourselves in the way we perceive and experience ourselves. Some see their female selves in the first person, some in the third person. Neither is right or wrong. It's just a difference we have to accept and learn to live with.

When I refer to Maggie in the third person, it is not a literary affectation. I am not trying to offend or annoy anyone. I am simply trying to be as honest and accurate as I can about my individual experience, because I respect all of you as intelligent readers.

I perceive myself as having two personas - one male and one female. My female persona is Maggie. Certainly she is a part of me, and she has qualities that I am trying to integrate into my overall personality. But is she the real me - my true identity? Perhaps, but perhaps not. Maybe I am 50-50, like a spiritual healer recently told me. I am still trying to sort this out. I have not reached the point where I can completely identify myself as a woman named Maggie. For me to pretend otherwise would be disingenuous.

Therefore, in order to describe my experience objectively, without prejudging the question of who I truly am, I find it necessary to refer to Maggie in the third person.

Another reason is that I am almost always in my male persona when I am posting. If I were actually crossdressed and in my female persona when posting, I would probably refer to myself as Maggie in the first person. But I would feel dishonest referring to Maggie in the first person when I don't actually feel that I am her. I would feel as if I were simply writing an erotic fantasy.

I respect the fact that many of you perceive your female identities in a more holistic, unified way. Your female identity may be fully integrated with your whole personality. Therefore, it is natural for you to refer to your female selves in the first person. But I hope you will respect the fact that this is not true for everyone.

Maggie,
I hope that you did not in any way presume that I was makng light of our use of the third person! I WAS NOT!! I empathsize with you and your position on this and I may well have a relapse into the third person. I don't thnk Beauty was critizing us, she was just seeking understanding of how we see ourselves on our own"Magical Mystery Tour!"
I will continue to participate and if Virginia comes across at times as third person, so be it! It is not intended to "excite" anyone it is just my humble way of expressing my self. I mean we all have our curiosities, like one of mine that was recently posted and please I am not criticizing anyone, but I wonder why a normal, healthy, hetrosexual, MARRIED male would have breast implants??!! ???
Virginia

I think Maggie hit it right on. It is simply a matter of expressing how we look at ourselves. Those of us who see ourselves as one individual can sometimes have a difficult time understanding how those with multiple personas can deal with that situation.

I don't have a need to present as female so I sometimes have a difficult time relating to those of you who do. The dynamic is similar in this situation. Like Beauty, I sometimes get a bit nuts reading third person posts. But, that's my problem, not yours.



Love,
Kathy

Kathy, can I paraphrase what you are saying?? No offense, but what most of us are doing here is learning. "Wisdom is the principle thing, therefore get wisdom, but with all thy getting get understanding." - Proverbs. (My favorite). In contrast if we see something outside our own realm of understanding - suicide bombers - uh, sorry, not a good example. Uh, someone who is slenderly challenged (to be politically correct - or hell, they are just FAT!) And you see them eating a box of Dunkin Donuts (my favorties)- anyway, because we care, you jerk them up and in their face - "What the hell do you think you are doing to yourself? What kind of Moron eats and entire box of donuts? Are you nuts?" etc. We generally don't do that, but here on this forum we can - in a nice way and kudos to all my sisters as that is what we all attempt to do, be nice!!!! We seek to learn from each other. We may not always agree, but we have become enlightened and are the wiser for it, so it is not necessarily a "problem" per say but a chance to learn - and I might add, "from the best and brightest!"
Love you all,
Virginia

Hi All,

Virginia, paraphrase away!

Let's see, what was that saying? The more I learn, the more I find I need to learn.

Love,
Kathy

Hi Beauty--
I can understand your peeve, and I'm sure that some people in my life share it with you--they just haven't stated it as well as you have.

For me? I see that I do NOT like the word, "dressed," as in, "When I went out the other day, dressed as Anita, I did some shopping..."

It's just easier to use the third person. I can't just say, "When I was out shopping the other day..."--they'll assume that male-me went out shopping--after all, that's who is usually talking to them, right?

So I end up saying, "When Anita went shopping yesterday...", and THEN I can start saying, "I tried on some skirts, and the clerk gave me a nod, and..."

So sometimes the same thing happens on here, I'm sure. I kinda hope the people around me aren't sick of this, but the word "dressed" makes me feel like it's all about the clothes, just like the term "crossdresser" does. That's why I call myself a T-girl, or a TG girl. It's not just about the clothes, *&$%!

I'll see your rant, and raise you one! See what you made me do, Beauty?

I am not the least bit offended by anything or anyone in this thread. I hope I didn't come across that way.

As I reflected more on this issue, I realized that I have written about Maggie in both the first and third persons, depending on the context.

When I am describing something I did as Maggie, I am learning to write about it more often in the first person. For example, "I wore a white blouse and blue skirt," or "I attended church as a woman," etc. This is completely factual, because it was really me who did these things.

On the other hand, when I am talking in broader terms about questions of my gender identity, I will tend to refer to Maggie in the third person, because I am trying to look at myself objectively, without assuming that Maggie is the one and only me.

Hi all,

Anita,

I don’t think what you have mentioned in your post is what I personally have a problem with.

I have a problem understanding such statements as:

I must completely divorce myself from my male persona and identify with Maggie.

That because of my nature and my repression, my soul and all of my energy and radiance resided in Maggie.

That is when I gave my female persona the name "Maggie.

Persona = An individual's social facade or front that especially in the analytic psychology of C. G. Jung reflects the role in life the individual is playing.

Source:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?b ... &x=15&y=13

The above does not sound/and or look like play to me.

Love,
Darlene.

I agree with what Anita said about how third personis a handy shorthand for what I was dressed as.

Also sometimes it is just easier for either terms of prose or for deep seated emotional stuff.

The way I look at it, the right word are the ones that tell the truth so that others can hear it. Whatever that is........

However I will bear what you all have said in mind

Andrea

Darlene,

I don't want to quibble about whether or not my use of the word "persona" strictly fits Jung's definition. I don't care. I think people get the idea of what I'm talking about. I'm just describing my actual experience and perception, as accurately and as truthfully as I know how. If you know of a better word to use, I'll consider it.

I don't expect you to understand my experience. You don't have to. It doesn't apply to you. Each person is different. Just don't expect me to conform my perception of myself to your perception of yourself. Enough said?

Maggie,

I am not intending to get into any quibbles as to what anyone’s definition of the word persona means. It was your word I had to look it up to see what it means. I am trying to understand you, and if you want that to happen you need to be prepared to work with others to make that possible.

I fail to see how anything in my post can lead you to think that I expect you to conform your perception of yourself to my perception of myself. I have stated quite clearly in previous threads that I would not want that to happen. Yet when confronted there are those who will resort to attempt to make those kind of claims in an effort to attempt to defend themselves.

You are right
Enough said.

Peace,
Darlene.

I reckon it is sometimes hard for someone who has always written in the first person to understand why anyone would write in the second or third person. It's even harder if the writer mixes first and third personage.

However, there is something to be said for writing in both the first and third person, as outlined here http://tarakharper.com/k_frstpr.htm