Crossdressers-Haven.com

It's interesting how some things which we may have not given any thought to at the time are indelibled into our minds, whereas other things we may have sought to retain seem to wane into obscurity over time.

Years ago, I can remember one lecturer whose expertise was teaching anatomy, making a comment one day in class, that the first thing which develops as a result of the fertilising of the human egg is the blastopore, which later develops into the anus. He then went on to say that, in other words, we all start out being a...holes and it's up to each of us as individuals as to what we do about that in our lives in the future. This came about during a discussion as to how we should develop caring attitudes and patience towards people in pain once we were out in the world in a clinical atmosphere. I met him years later during post grad courses and we had many meaningful discussions on myself and life in general and he was probably one of the first people who had had a positive bearing on me starting to come to terms with what I call, 'my true self'.

This wonderful man passed away two weeks ago and although I hadn't recently had any contact with him, his passing left me with a huge sense of loss, and since the funeral I've been contemplating over his effect on my life and his words of wisdom years ago, and what's amazed me is the effect his words had on me without me knowing it at the time.

I can remember during one of our last chats we had about myself, he said words to the effect, "Nature loves variety, society hates it, people will perceive other people differently, depending an any number of variables, but in the end it's up to you to be yourself, don't live in denial and that in itself will eventually change the perceptions of you which the people who matter to you have about you."

The passing of this man brought back so many memories regarding things which today I rarely think of, and it's quite comical in some ways to think back years and compare them with how I am today and how I think and act. To compare what concerned me then and what may or may not concern me today.

Someone told me years ago that labels were for bottles and tin cans, I used to worry so much over what I called myself and what others called people like me. Today I don't give two hoots, people will label other people what they choose, and the fact is, if we don't give ourself a label which we're comfortable with, then others will give us one of their own which may offend us, because we live in a label orientated world. Labels are just an easy means of identification and communication. Also it's easy in this fast world to label someone rather than examine them too closely as this takes time and effort.

Probably two of the most common labels in use are the words 'man' and 'woman', even though they really don't describe males and females as such, but more refer to the gender roles which our cultures expect of them. This being the case then it's oh so much easier for people to just assume these roles than to be their original selves. From our first origin we begin to exist in an ocean of culture, which overwhelms us with mental pictures of who we are, based on things such as skin colour, sex, birthplace, as many distinctions and divisions of sexuality as we want etc. But really, we're all just born little babies. There are no men born men or women born women, it all comes down to the sense of self identity we develop and what we do about it which makes us who we are.

People can call me what they want or label me how they see fit, it really doesn't concern me in the slightest, but for those who do have concerns over being labelled, it's not the fact that labels exist which is important, it's important in how people consider them. Labels are really only social constructs e.g man or woman, but labels can have both wanted and unwanted power over people if it becomes an assumption that they're natural and uncontested states of being. What I see as important though is that if people realise that labels are only social constructs, then it's easier to rise above the definitions in such a way as it's still possible to embrace them in a healthy fashion.

Even though some people may say, " I'm just me", on one hand I agree with that, but on the other hand we're all also very complex creatures. We're all many things, we all 'wear many hats' if you like. Our evolvement continues as we go through life, we continue to add 'hats' to our collection as we go. How we present, what we do, what we become, our clothing, our bodies all become symbols of who we aspire to be.

These symbols are under constant influence by society as it searches for visions of what is and what isn't normal at any given time. Probably the greatest influence is effected by the media on these symbols, but not only for those of us who live in the TG world, but for all people. The entire fashion and cosmetics industry survives on people's dissatisfaction with their appearance. The clothing industry conforms to peoples wishes to look taller, shorter, slimmer, more rounded here or there etc. Untold numbers of women have breast enhancement, breast reduction, facial plastic surgery etc. So what's the big deal over what we do, maybe it's just some of us do it in a more obvious manner, but in the end we really don't do anything more than what other men and women do as far as symbolising ourselves.

So, to end this ramble, thinking back over what this man, now passed, mainly taught me. He taught me to stop lying. Mainly to stop lying to myself first. I remember his words, even if it took many years after for them to have any effect, but he said before I could stop lying to the world I had to stop lying to myself. Lying about myself was a form of protection in those days, but the lies were because of my denial of who and what I was and my desire to be 'normal', or rather to fit the description of what was culturally considered common sense normal. But of course 'common sense ideas' simply grow from our individual culture and habitat, which becomes a form of control, presumably for the good of the majority.

Do we celebrate who we are or do we just tolerate it? To celebrate opens many doors, to tolerate just builds fences.

Kind Regards to all,

Sally.

Sally,

That was a great post. I totally agree with your point of view. I spent a great deal of my life lying to myself about who and what I really was. It was not until I came here just over a year ago that I ever really called myself a crossdreser.

The consequences of those actions have had far reaching effects, which of couse is what I was avoiding. I wish I could say that I have this all figured out, but the truth is, I don't. It is a continual struggle to be honest with myself. It takes continual self examination of my actions and intentions.

And while it has been hard, and embarassing at times, painful and exilerating. It has freed me. I am not self concious about who I am now. I don't care what others think of me or my actions. I know what I am, what my values are and that is good enough for me.

Thanks for the great post.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Awesome as usual, Sally! Are not those of us who have the plastic surgery, the enhancements, the stylish clothing, etc., also being true to ourselves? If we want to endure the pain of lasering the hair off our bodies and wearing the stylish clothing, etc because we like what we see when we look in the mirror and don't really care what others think, even if we are or appear to be "throwing it in their face!" Are those folks being true to themselves as well?? I hate to admit it here, but I am struggling with dressing and going out in public to do my day to day activities. Oh, I have no problem in going out to eat or to a movie or to a club but to dress and go to the bank, or the grocery store or to get gas or the drug store, - -maybe when my divorce is done - then I say what the hell difference does that make, so I am struggling with that right now, but leaning strongly toward saying what you and a lot of my sisters here have said and done! "Nike: "Just do it!!!!" I can see myself dresssing 24/7 and using the male mode "en drab" as the alternative as opposed to the female aspect if you know what I mean.
Anyway, thanks for being there and as I have said and will say, I love reading your posts!!!!
Love ya,
Virginia

This was a good post and seems to coincide well with a couple of other threads here.

So were are mostly agreed that we can transcend our labels. But our labels do have power.

Virginia brought up some interesting stuff. There are those of us who feel it is being our true self to try to appear physically attractive. Then there are those of us who are still dealing with the idea that we should be able to find our self worth regardless of our attractiveness. Something GG's have to deal with all the time. But we have another dimension here also.

I dare say that if we had a what are you wearing thread and fashion and beauty section for us to post in as men presenting as men that we might think it a bit wierd. I mean who wants to post about what tie or what tee shirt we have on? So we are allowing ourselves something here.

So what are the labels that I struggle with here. The big one is that a man who wants to break the rules of sexual and gender presentation must be strange. Preaching to the choir here of course. And how do I get past the societal suspicions about a man in a dress. Or for some of us, the societal suspicions of people who aren't quite sure what gender they are.

We need some sort of order. Without it society falls apart and we are pack animals like a lot of other primates. Left alone like grizzly bears humans don't do well-they get eaten a lot.

One of the rules all societies seem to have is that people are classified by gender. It makes sense, those giving birth and perpetuating the species have an important role.

Not all societies however seem to think this needs to be completely hard and fast. Many societies had a special role for the gender ambiguous. Ours did not and in the very throes of starting to think about accepting it.

I suppose there are some good reasons for this. The fundamentalists are always fond of quoting the Bible. Read about Sodom and Gomorrah they say. A closer reading is very interesting. They were destroyed after attempting to rape two angels. Prior to that they were known for raping passers by, in particular men. Probably women also but it isn't mentioned.

So there was a need for order to be restored. It was. But perhaps the wrong lessons have been passed down. Their sin was rape. As far as I am concerned rape is still a sin.

Today I have to consider how much of societies labels I want to accept. And the really intersting question is where do I find the strength and the self worth to be able to do that?

So how about it ladies. What was it that made us able to not feel ashamed of what some call our gift?

Andrea

Hi girls,

Virginia and Andrea,

If I left the impression that somehow those who wish to enhance their appearance are in some way not being themselves? Let me take a moment and clear that up.

"Above all else, to thine own self be true" - William Shakespear

I beleive that no matter what a person decides to do in order to become the person they beleive they are, it is inherently a good thing. If one needs to have hair removed, Facial Feminsation Surgery, breastforms, breast implants, Hormones, fancy clothes and even SRS to become the person they want to be? Then that is what is it going to take for that person. No one person's needs are any better than any other person's needs, as I see it.

I see my life and indeed my needs as something fluid and moving, in a dynamic way. As my life circumstance changes, so do my needs. Even though I have been dressing over a year now, I have experienced no loss of desire. Every day it still feels great to get up, shower, shave, get dressed, put some makeup on, put on my wig and go about my day as the person I am now. And as long as it feels right, I will keep doing it.

Only each person can know what is right for them. I recommend getting some professional counseling to those who are struggling with who they are.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Hi Elizabeth,
I was in no way questioning your treaty!!! I was simply pointing out as you have that each of us have an agenda as to how we accept ourselves and if it takes physical alterations and the person is sincere in their desire to achieve some alternate appearance, they are being true to themselves!
AND! I totally agree with your final comment. With the advances that Psychology and Psychiarty have made in not only understanding "us" but in accepting us - yes counselling is an very appropriate step for someone stuggling with "this gift!"
Love ya,
Virginia

I'm not saying that those who wish to enhance their appearance are not being true to themselves. That is something we all have to decide for ourselves.

I do however sometimes react to the sort of thinking that gets expressed which I can best paraphrase from something I heard in the other forum. It goes like "I wish I could be a GG so I could be pretty" And let me admit here that if I thought I could pass as a pretty girl and not a funny looking man in a dress I would probably try it from time to time. And I would want to be PRETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTY.

I have known a lot of women over the years who had to struggle mightily to overcome low self esteem based on thinking they were not pretty. When I hear of us getting silicone implants I think of a woman I knew who got them hoping she would like herself more if she did. Also that her husband would find her more attractive. Guess what? He left her anyway.

Or I will think of a good friend who was anorexic. If she could manage to avoid eating anything at all it gave the day meaning because it would help her be thin and thin is beautiful and beautiful is good. Another very close friend who became an ampheamine addict behind the same thinking.

If someone wants to look nice that is fine and probably a sign of good self esteem and so on. And if someone wants to do something like SRS then they are the best judge of what they need. And our need to present who we feel we really are to society can be very complex. I certainly can not judge it in anyone else when I am still confused about it in myself. Why do I like to wear jeans and tee shirts so much? Because I think it presents who I want you to think I am, which has only a partial relationship to who I think I am. But whenever I think about a new style of dress I come back to this is what feels comfortable for me to be seen in.

This goes right to the heart of our labels discussion. Ugly, fat, and so on are horrific labels for women to internalize. And the problem is not how they look. The problem is the weight of the label.

So if people here want to be pretty that is fine, and much of what we do here is to accept our need to try to look a different way. But lets never forget that if we go too far with this we enter a trap that can be fiendishly difficult to escape, and lets never forget the struggles that our sisters have had to fight.

I remember reading some time ago about a woman who went on a safari and brought her makeup along. She felt funny about it for a while and then said that if it made her feel good about herself what was wrong with it? My take on it is what in the world is going on with you if you need this to feel good about yourself? Of course it's so so easy to make the next wrong step and begin to feel bad about yourself because you feel bad about yourself. I must be a lesser person for the crime of having low self esteem. And that is equally wrong.

Sorry about the rant. It is something near and dear to my heart and I am not trying to disrespect anyone here.

Andrea

That is a very good post Andrea,

Andrea wrote: I'm not saying that those who wish to enhance their appearance are not being true to themselves. That is something we all have to decide for ourselves.

I do however sometimes react to the sort of thinking that gets expressed which I can best paraphrase from something I heard in the other forum. It goes like "I wish I could be a GG so I could be pretty" And let me admit here that if I thought I could pass as a pretty girl and not a funny looking man in a dress I would probably try it from time to time. And I would want to be PRETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTY.

I have known a lot of women over the years who had to struggle mightily to overcome low self esteem based on thinking they were not pretty. When I hear of us getting silicone implants I think of a woman I knew who got them hoping she would like herself more if she did. Also that her husband would find her more attractive. Guess what? He left her anyway.

Or I will think of a good friend who was anorexic. If she could manage to avoid eating anything at all it gave the day meaning because it would help her be thin and thin is beautiful and beautiful is good. Another very close friend who became an ampheamine addict behind the same thinking.

This need some have to look pretty, is based on a need to feel good about themselves. It can be the result of a destructive label.

Andrea wrote: If someone wants to look nice that is fine and probably a sign of good self esteem and so on. And if someone wants to do something like SRS then they are the best judge of what they need. And our need to present who we feel we really are to society can be very complex. I certainly can not judge it in anyone else when I am still confused about it in myself. Why do I like to wear jeans and tee shirts so much? Because I think it presents who I want you to think I am, which has only a partial relationship to who I think I am. But whenever I think about a new style of dress I come back to this is what feels comfortable for me to be seen in.

This goes right to the heart of our labels discussion. Ugly, fat, and so on are horrific labels for women to internalize. And the problem is not how they look. The problem is the weight of the label.

That the individual accepts. There are those who have to live with things about ourselves that we would rather not that can not be changed. And the only solution I am aware of for that is a change in Identity.

Andrea wrote: So if people here want to be pretty that is fine, and much of what we do here is to accept our need to try to look a different way. But lets never forget that if we go too far with this we enter a trap that can be fiendishly difficult to escape, and lets never forget the struggles that our sisters have had to fight.

I remember reading some time ago about a woman who went on a safari and brought her makeup along. She felt funny about it for a while and then said that if it made her feel good about herself what was wrong with it? My take on it is what in the world is going on with you if you need this to feel good about yourself? Of course it's so so easy to make the next wrong step and begin to feel bad about yourself because you feel bad about yourself. I must be a lesser person for the crime of having low self esteem. And that is equally wrong.

Sorry about the rant. It is something near and dear to my heart and I am not trying to disrespect anyone here.

Andrea

I think the trap that you mention is very real. There is always the danger of hiding within some assumed (unhealthy) identity, that can cause one to endure as much or more stress than if they were able to recognize the root cause as opposed to the symptoms.

Another way of saying this is that we should be aware of the lies we once believed or are presently believing about ourselves.

Loretta said : Another way of saying this is that we should be aware of the lies we once believed or are presently believing about ourselves

Absolutely perfectly put. And be careful not to merely exchange on lie for another.

Of course figuring out what the truth is can be so difficult. Once more we come to the labels.

Sorry I can't figure out how to make the quote thingys work

Andrea

Not wishing to be too redundent, but when you "cut to the chase," we are " the guy in a dress." You remember the line in the movie. "Men In Black" when the boss says, "put it on!" And Will Smith dresses in the "uniform" comes out and says. "You know the difference between you and me? -- I make this look good!!!" Well some of us make it look good and some don't; most try, some don't care, etc. We are all different in how we accept what we see in the mirror. For me and again thanks to all my sisters here,. I learned early on to look past the reflection and into my soul if you will what has risen to the surface is something that I had supressed, repressed, ignored - whatever but now through Virginia it has blossomed and that is the caring, empathy, love, understanding, not that some or maybe all males have but the females exude it and now I can say in most case I am able to let it out as well. As I have also said, the dressing is now secondary to the interaction that Virginia gives me with my fellow man from a "kinder gentler" aspect of interaction and the dividends are soooooo special!!!
As I have said, I think I pass in most situations but if I don't at least they know I am trying and that along with confidence in presentation and a smile takes me where I want to go!
Love ya,
Virginia

Andrea,

There are two ways to make the quote thingy work.

One way is click on the quote button in the post you want to post. You can then remove the text you do not wish to quote, as long as you leave the Quote instructions intact.

Another method is to copy the text you wish to quote and paste it in the reply window. Then highlight that text (in the reply window) and click on the quote button that is at the top of the window.