The Old "Reverse Situation" Argument

[Maggie]

On these and other forums, the question is repeatedly asked, "Why are wives so intolerant of their husbands' cross-dressing?" The response that I repeatedly see, again and again, is the following excuse for such intolerance:

"Just imagine the situation was reversed. You came home and found your wife strapping her chest, cutting her hair short, wearing a false mustache, stuffed jockstrap, and men's clothing, and declaring that she wants to express her 'inner man.' How would you feel about that? How would you feel if she wanted to go out as a man in public with you? How would you like to be seen in public appearing to be holding hands with another man?" And so on.

Often this excuse is quoted by cross-dressers' wives and significant others; sometimes it is put forth by cross-dressers themselves.

Somehow it is assumed that this is a final, irrefutable answer to our complaints. It is assumed that our universal response would be: "Yuk! Of course we couldn't tolerate our wives doing that! We want our wives to be real women, not men! After all, we're not gay!" Therefore, we have no right to complain about our wives' intolerance of our own cross-dressing.

Well, I for one don't buy into this argument.

First, the argument assumes that I would have the same reaction as a stereotypical "macho" homophobic husband. But that's not who I am. I have now accepted the fact that I am a transgendered woman. I understand that gender identity is immutably established even before a person is born. Because I love my wife as a person, and because I myself have known the pain of gender dysphoria, I would be understanding and accepting of her condition. I would not compound her pain by making her feel guilty and ashamed of herself. I would not be cruel, rejecting, and vindictive.

Second, if my wife had her own gender dysphoria (which she does not), I would expect that she would have a better understanding and acceptance of mine. Furthermore, I would be happy to accompany her while she was dressed as a man - as long as I could be the woman!

Although the "reverse situation" example might help some of us better understand our wives' negative reaction, I strongly object to wives' using it as an excuse for their intolerance. It's similar to one group justifying its intolerance of another group on the grounds that the intolerance is mutual. Such an attitude does nothing to advance mutual understanding and harmony.

[Virginia]

All I can say to that Maggie is AMEN< SISTER AMEN!!!!!
Love ya,
Virginia

[CJ]

Hi all,

Well, Maggie, although I understand what you're getting at, there's a problem with your argument. Whenever people set out to refute this or that position, they have to make sure that they make room for this little proviso: all else being equal. Meaning, "in a set of circumstances as close to the one we're criticizing as we can make it."

You state that the "reverse situation" argument doesn't add up for you primarily because of the fact that your own gender foibles have led you to be more tolerant regarding other people's gender identities. You can't do that; you cannot trade places with a wife who has no such trouble with her own gender identity. Although you do mention that you'd expect a gender-dysphoric wife to be more understanding, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the "reverse situation" argument.

I can guarantee you that a wife who's experiencing gender dysphoria will be super-tolerant towards her CD'ing husband. I'm one of those crossdressers who believe the "reverse situation" argument holds up. It seems we've been so close to our own situation for so long--hell! for a lifetime!--that we find it very difficult to imagine how we'd see the world if we weren't transgendered. Someone who's never had to grapple with his or her identity in quite the way we've had to has a long road to walk before he or she can understand us. That's just life. If an SO finds, for whatever reason, that she cannot walk that road, well, that's just life, too. We can put her on the spot and vilify her all we want but the simple truth is, she met, fell in love with, and married a man, not a woman. This, coupled to the fact that the emotional damage done by the dishonesty, deceit, and betrayal CD's are often guilty of in their preoccupation with protecting their secret, leads many SO's to feel slightly less magnanimous and tolerant than we'd like them to be, once the cat is out of the bag

Having said all this, Maggie, I totally agree with you that our being intolerant towards another person simply because we know the intolerance to be mutual serves little purpose. Harmony all around starts with harmony within. Here's an idea: how about we, ourselves, demonstrate some degree of tolerance towards our SO's as they struggle to wrap their brains around the fact that they're partnered to men who want to be women (or who want to be feminine)? Wouldn't that be a switch?

As always, these are just my own opinions and in no way do I intend to disrespect anyone. So, please, take this post for what it's worth.

Love,
CJ

[Maggie]

Just avoid misunderstanding, I would like to clarify the point of my post.

I am not denying the right of our wives and SO's to feel upset about our cross-dressing. I am just saying that this is an issue that has to be dealt with directly by both parties - including the wife or SO - rather than allowing them to hide behind excuses.

I am questioning the validity of the "reverse situation" argument, because it attempts to justify the wife's/SO's refusal to understand and deal with her intolerance by incorrectly assuming that we would be just as intolerant toward our wives/SOs if we discovered them cross-dressing as men. As I have pointed out, it is not necessarily true that we ourselves would be so intolerant.

Granted that our wives fell in love with us on the assumption that we were real, 100 per cent masculine men. But let's imagine that, instead of Gender Identity Disorder, we were discovered to have a genetic condition that caused us to become disabled as we got older. Certainly, this is not what the wives had bargained for. Certainly they would be disappointed and upset. Nevertheless, many would probably stay with us either through love, a sense of obligation, or because they would feel guilty about abandoning us.

Now, let's imagine that your wife decides to split. "How can you abandon me like this?" you ask. And she replies, "Well, you would abandon me if I became disabled!" In effect, this would be a way for her to justify and to avoid acknowledging her own selfish feelings by projecting her selfish feelings on you - without regard to how you would really feel or react in such a situation. Not only are you rejected and abandoned - your own feelings are ignored and disrespected and, on top of that, you also get to bear all the blame and responsibility!! Sound familiar??

To summarize, I'm not denying their right to feel the way they feel about our cross-dressing. I'm just saying that the "reverse situation" argument is dishonest, unfounded, and unhelpful.

[Virginia]

Maggie,
There is a dose of reality in your analogy! You know that my wife had dillusions, then we put her in the hospital to see what was wrong and they determined that her right frontal lobe had swollen and being that that is where emotions, etc reside, I figured that may have been what was causing her to have "doubts" about our relationship -- may have may not??? Anyway, following her brain surgery and I brought her home I waited on her hand and foot 24/7 and she still chose to "abandon me!" Now I can point to numerous things that caused her to take that road. The fact remains that each of us have certain perceptions, perceptions that are brought on by any number of things, socio-economic back ground, religion, self - doubt. fear of the unknown. Each situation is different and how we preceive each other in a relationship varies with each relationship.
My point is and it refers only to me and Virginia. I am happy with who I am. I have met not only here but in getting out and going places, met others and I am not alone in this "Magical Mystery Tour" Each of us will approach out destiny differently, I guess. Virginia has chosen to say that life is to short to be unhappy and there are a lot of things that I what to do, taste, feel, see, experience and I will NOT let someone who is too narrow minded or that refuses to even try and share the wonders that I feel, keep me from enjoying my journey to its fullest! those of my isters who have an SO who takes any interest at all in their lives or supports them in anyway are maybe more fortunate thatn yhey may ever know and I am happy for them. But I have said it before and I will say it again. I love Virginia, she loves me and we will hand in hand continue on our "Magical Mystery Tour" till we both assume room tempature!
Love you all,
Virginia

[Sally]

I wouldn't agree with the statement that wives 'hide behind excuses' when dealing negatively with their husbands crossdressing. I believe most wives who can't accept the fact have valid reasons why, not excuses, there's a difference between an excuse and a reason.

I believe that a woman falls in love and marries a man because of who and what that man is and what she knows about him AT THAT TIME, and because of all the reasons which go to make him that man, and in the high majority of cases those reasons don't include him wearing womens clothes. What would be the percentage of crossdressing males who would tell their intended before the marriage? 1 in 10? 1 in 20? 1 in 50? 1 in 100?, well I don't know but I'd surmise that the percentage of the married men reading this who told their wives before the wedding would be very low, including myself.

I believe that those of us who go into the marriage with 'our secret' don't have any right whatsoever to expect our wives to later accept fully that side of us. It is a huge issue as we know, if it wasn't we'd tell them first up wouldn't we? If it wasn't part of the original contract, when we reveal it we then change the game, the goal posts have been moved and I believe thinking that the wife is 'making excuses' is a bit over the top because the issue is so huge. She has a valid reason in refusing to accept that side of us because by any stretch of the imagination she should have been told before she committed to the marriage so she could then make a considered decision. The majority of women want a man for all the reasons they've grown up seeing and knowing men as men, and I'd suggest that the greater majority of women never think about including crossdressing in their list of 'what they want in a man'.

No matter how much we may not like to believe it, it is a fact that the majority of the public see a man in a dress as perverse to varying degrees, and indeed most parents teach their children to beware of 'anything out of the ordinary'. It's just a natural thing children are taught, and with good reason too. Men make up 95% of sexual predators and whether we like it or not people see what they want to see and think what they want to think, and a man in a dress creates threatening thoughts to most. It's a natural line of thinking with most people that if they can't see it then it's not happening and that's the case with the majority of sexual predators, they present as 'normal men' and hide behind that veil of normality stalking their prey, but when they see a man is a dress that then sets alarm bells ringing and this attitude is not about to change wholesale any time soon.
We may know that the majority of us are not a threat but just saying it won't erase generations of how people think and are brought up, including our wives.

I don't believe that 'the reverse situation' holds water because from our side of the argument we're biased, no matter what anyone thinks or says, we naturally are. It's ok for us to say that we're tolerant of any other person no matter what, and would fully accept our wife if she wanted to present as a man, but that argument suits our case, we'd never know until it happened. I know that I love my wife for who and what she is. I love everything womanly and feminine about her and if she had anything manly about her then I know I'd never have fallen in love with her and married her. I consider myself extremely fortunate in the fact that she accepted me for who and what I am, when after years of marriage and three children I revealed to her my secret, but, if she hadn't accepted me then I was fully prepared to accept that and deal with it, and I knew she had every right to refuse to accept that side of me.

This is a topic which one could write about in great depth, but for me it's really simple and the fact is that if we didn't tell them before the marriage then we can't have high expectations of them accepting it afterwards. It's just that big of an issue with people and I firmly believe a wife in this situation doesn't need excuses, it's her right to refuse to accept it and those women who refuse to accept it have valid reasons for doing so, because, when it becomes known it can be life changing, having regard to family home life, neighbours, friends, relatives, the work place and so on and so on. No matter what fancy words we use or how long we talk about it, we'll never be able to make anyone else understand how it is for us. They may agree to live with it and accept it best they can, but if anyone is not made as we are, then it's an impossibility for them to understand how we feel, how it effects us day to day and how desperate we can become if the 'need' isn't met.
Having said all this, I am a firm believer that tolerance and acceptance of other peoples views starts with ourself. We also have to accept that for many people at this point in time they never will come to terms with a crossdressing male, just as we can't change, they won't either, it's just how they are too.

I've said this before many times and I say again, I like me as I am and love who I am, but then I've never known anything else, but, I could well have done without being this way because of all the angst and trauma it's brought me during my life due to others, but we can only play the cards we're dealt, if we want to stay in the game of life.

I know a lot of people are hurting everyday because they cannot be 'free' to be who they want to, my heart goes out to you all because I've experienced both sides of it and I can only pray that a way to peace and happiness with it all will open up for you as it did for me.

Kind Regards,

Sally.

[CJ]

Hi all,

Well! This is turning out to be a very interesting thread, indeed!

Maggie,

You bring up valid points. I agree with much of what you say. However, supposing I were married, supposing my secret were revealed (intentionally or not), and supposing my (intolerant) wife were to say to me, "you'd feel the same way if the roles were reversed," the only thing I could justifiably accuse her of (assuming I were in the habit of accusing people of things) is of her not knowing me as well as she thinks she does, not that she's intolerant.

As Sally--rightly--pointed out, an SO already has a lot on her plate once she discovers her man wants to be womanly. There's little to be gained by making her feel like she's the "abnormal" one in the relationship. Often, SO's will have even less access than we do to a supportive community; struggling in isolation with the consequences and emotional turmoil that result from this life-changing revelation on the part of their husbands or boyfriends, they'll often try to find ways to defend their own positions and views that may not sit well with us, "reverse situation" arguments included.

What a wife or girlfriend is doing, here, when she says that we'd feel the same way were the shoe on the other foot is reassuring herself that she's not odd for feeling the way she does; that she's not the only one who'd feel like this in this situation; that, given the exceptional nature of the circumstances she suddenly finds herself in, it's normal for her to feel what she feels. So normal, in fact, that we'd feel it, too, in her place. Hence, the "reverse situation" argument.

Notice, too, that we aren't talking about behaviours, here; we're talking about feelings. And actually listening and paying attention to our SO's feelings can go a long way to repair some of the damage we do to the relationship--a damage, incidentally, that's the result not of our having revealed ourselves to our SO's but of our having hid ourselves from our SO's and of having shut them out of our deepest life.

There's an expression to the effect that we shouldn't shovel our garbage over the fence into our neighbour's yard. Similarly, we shouldn't pressure our SO's into participating in this (for them) totally new aspect of who we are merely because we know (or, at any rate, believe) we could, were the roles reversed. No single person is emotionally or psychologically built like any other person. This difference is one of the beautiful things about being human.

Notice that, in the paragraph above, I refer to "participating in," not to "being tolerant of." The problem with branding someone as being intolerant is that it allows that person no room to steer a middle course; they're either tolerant or they're intolerant. The current connotations are clear: in these rather sensitive times, to say that someone is intolerant is very nearly akin to saying they're evil bigots. I think that it isn't possible (and certainly not productive) to paint neither the world nor individuals themselves in such black-and-white terms.

Yes, it's unfortunate that some SO's feel the need to arm themselves against us with the "reverse situation" argument. But it's certainly understandable; again, as Sally said, this is where we uncover the difference between an excuse and a reason. Just remember that when a person arms himself or herself (and, yes, words and arguments can be both weapons and shields) it's usually because that person does, indeed, feel threatened. Often, the only way to convince someone that we're not an (emotional) threat is by our actions; if, in the past, through our dishonesty and deceit, we've only managed to confirm in the person's mind that we're not as harmless as we claim to be, then, certainly, we'll face resistance when we accuse that person of being, herself, needlessly mean or bull-headed.

The only instance I know of where the "reverse situation" argument was tested "in the field," so to speak, happened right here, on this forum. On Halloween, a year and a half ago, Love (an SO and, at the time, one of the moderators) decided to "dress up"--yes, including a beard and a sausage--and surprise her CD'ing husband. It was a disaster. He not only blinked, he not only cringed, he cried all the way to the bedroom, where he shut himself in for the remainder of the evening. Read the thread for yourself, Maggie; it's very enlightening.

We think we have some kind of emotional or psychological maturity conferred upon us by our having suffered because of our gender difficulties; we think this maturity would allow us to be much more generous and kind towards a gender-conflicted spouse if the roles were reversed. The truth is, we heterosexual crossdressers love women way too much to be able to easily handle our being partnered to the "Bearded Lady" (in jeans, workboots, and packing a "tool," no less!).

We have to want to give that same leeway to our SO's. We know we won't change. Is it reasonable to expect that they should? Giving them that leeway, allowing them to feel what they feel and not feel like heartless shrews because of those feelings is half the battle won in saving the relationship. Read any of Kay(SO)'s posts. She explains it much better than I can. The other, tougher, half of the battle has to do with making room for compromise--what's acceptable, what's not, for either partner. This is where relationships can either flounder or thrive (and sometimes a little bit of both at the same time).

I guess I'm ranting now because this issue is close to my heart. I've always been upfront with my SO's--they knew of my CD'ing, often long before we became an "item"--and it sometimes irks me when CD's forget that while they point a finger at an SO, three fingers are pointing back at themselves.

Again, Maggie, I feel I can say these things without offending you because I know you enjoy discussion and debate. My own fault (and I realize it's a major one) is that I sometimes come across as arrogant or dogmatic but, really, I enjoy these kinds of conversations and I'm much more intellectually flexible than my words can convey. I hope you'll take those words in the spirit I offer them.

Love,
CJ

[Loretta Ann]

There are some extremely good responses in this thread.

Give others the same right we demand of them. The right to be who and what we are.

No one needs to live as I might like to prescribe.

[Absaroka]

CJ it's so nice to see you posting again.

Lots of well thought out thought provoking discussion here.

I guess my little bit I would reiterate is that there is a big difference between being uncomfortable and intolerant. THe reverse situation arguement is a great way of helping us understand our spouses discomfort and trying to put ourselves in their shoes (metaphorically speaking of course) But it is easy to go from issues of being uncomfortable to further issues of stuff like autonomy.

Here's a thought. How many of us had/have arguements with our wife about what we are wearing when we are wearing mens clothes? I know that early on I had a lot of them, many of them along the lines of "your'e going to wear THAT to my parents for dinner? In my case THAT was usually far too informal for her to feel comfortable with and she didn't want people to think she was a going out with some sort of a low life. Part of what was going on was how I wanted to present myself vs. how she wanted to present us as a couple. Lots of autonomy stuff there.

We also have to aknowledge that like it or not a womans status in our society is more influenced by that of her male SO than the other way around, at least in the more traditional circles.

Absaroka

[Virginia]

Absaroka,
You raise some interesting points - some of which I have "been taken to the wood shed" for voicing my opinion about. To paraphrase an adage that I saw the other day, "If you want to know how well a man is doing in life, look at his wife!"
We, as crossdressers, for the most part, admire those of the "fairer sex!" We seek to emulate them in what our preception of their appearance ------===== should be! Then we are (in a lot of situations) forced to "dress down" just to fit in. Not only in clothing but subdued make-up and hair that could use some work! In one of my "trips to the woodshed" an SO pointed out to me and rightfully so, something to the effect that if I was critizing the appearance of some GG in public (in my mind) that perhaps I should take a close look at the "slob" she had to "put up with!" Point well taken!!!!!!
Human relationships are unique to say the least, some of us take the stance that well I am married now so I can stop trying to "look go!" Which applies to both sides of the issue, if you will.
I can only speak from my vantage point! Virginia likes to look nice when she goes out, has she been influenced by this forum and by dress codes where she goes? YES, she has had to "dress down" so as not to stand out. Yes! did she like it? No, but sometimes as the old saying goes:"discreation is the better part of valor!"
We have to adapt - yes I am fortunate in one degree - I no longer have a GG - not that she ever critized me as she never saw Virginia, only her wardrobe and she did critize that - however if you will extend me this courteosy _"Virginia can out dress her on my worst day and blindfolded at that!"
I guess it will be the continuing conflict of the sexes and until it is finally determined to be a TRUTH "that we are the next phase in human evolution" this conflict will continue as it has for eons!
Keep the faith, ladies -- it is worth the effort!
Love ya,
Virginia

[Maggie]

This has been a very interesting discussion. I enjoy, and am rarely offended by, an honest and open debate. I get to compare notes with other people, learn different viewpoints, and have an opportunity to refine or modify my ideas and means of expressing them.

I guess what I'm feeling is a deep sense of sadness and frustration at not being free to come out and express my gender identity and be accepted for who I am. After a lifetime of struggle, denial, repression, self-loathing, and searching, I have finally come to the realization that I did not choose to be TG, and that there is probably nothing I can to change it. Although I have sometimes thought of suicide, I would rather find a reasonable alternative before totally giving up on life.

I suppose I must resign myself to the fact that my wife will never be able to accept my female persona - and that she won't even try. It is disheartening to know that the man she loves is not really "me" but a facade, and that the real me inside is something she will always find repulsive.

[CJ]

Hi all,

Maggie,

Your last post took the words right out of my mouth. I've struggled with such issues all my life (as have we all); the difference is that, today, largely due to the wonderful people I've met on this forum--both CD's as well as GG's--I'm starting to understand that much of my frustration stems not from the way things are but from the way I imagine things could be.

I'm an idealist: like Jodie Foster's Dr. Ellie Arroway in the movie Contact, I do believe that the world is largely what we make of it. So there's a call to action, there. Yet, at the same time, I do have a major stoic streak in me; I realize that there's much in this world which I cannot change and over which I have very little control, if any at all.

I like this about myself. I find it gives me a sense of balance. I know too many people who fall completely into one camp or the other: either they're always trying to change the world around them while giving too little thought to what they can change about themselves or, conversely, they refuse to try to change anything at all about the world out of a sense of helplessness, futility, or even apathy.

We can no more change another person's character or personality (and this would include that of a non-accepting SO) than we can change our own. However (and this is a HUGE "but"!) what we can do--and it's always, always worth trying--is to change another person's state of knowledge. I don't mean forcing anyone to agree with our views (nor even trying to convince anyone that our views are the right ones), I mean making certain that other people will, at the very least, have access to the facts in the matter under scrutiny.

It's always up to each person to determine the course of their own opinions--that, of course, goes without saying!--but it's also up to each person to get information regarding matters on which they hold opinions. If they hold opinions on, say, crossdressers, without simultaneously informing themselves about the nature and shape of gender conflict--about what it looks like in the culture in which they live as well as in the life of individuals so afflicted--then, I'm sorry, but their opinions are of dubious worth.

And this is what I often find frustrating in my own life. The fact is, we must all sometimes necessarily contend with people whose opinions regarding this or that are built upon nothing more solid than the shifting sands of ignorance. And when I say "ignorance," I don't mean "lack of general education," I mean "lack of familiarity with facts and issues pertaining to a given subject."

You know, Maggie, it wouldn't be so bad to feel this kind of frustration and discouragement if its consequences weren't so often as dire as they are. As you point out, some (or is that "many"?) will think of killing themselves so great are that frustration and discouragement. (And here I think that the words "frustration" and "discouragement" are but euphemisms for a most incredibly painful, and obviously life-threatening, despair and depression).

Paradoxically, one retort I've often heard from people "uneducated" in matters relating to transgenderedness is one that, though it sounds understanding, is anything but; it's when people will say, upon our having revealed ourselves to them, something like "Oh! Is that it? Is that your deep, dark secret? Big deal? Who cares?" Well, I care, see. It's a big deal to me. It's been with me all of my life, it's made me who I am, and when you dismiss it as though you were wadding up and throwing away a used Kleenex, you're doing neither me nor yourself a favour. Still, it's not so bad; a person who says this usually means no harm and is apt to be much more willing to discover who we are than one who, for whatever reasons--be they religious, moral, emotional, philosophical, or psychological--closes the door on any further discussion of the matter (well, for the time being, at any rate).

Yes, frustration can run high, Maggie. No doubt about that. But I think there are several ways out of this 'blocked route.' One of those ways--and it's the one championed by Loretta Ann, amongst others here--is to stop "linking" our own happiness to the behaviour of others. It's a tough route as it entails an increase in the possibility of relationships and friendships being terminated acrimoniously. Personally, I think that only those with the kind of temperament required to leave behind the "normal" emotional expectations that arise out of social intercourse will succeed. Another way is for us to find those tools that will help us work on our own emotional and psychological issues. As long as they cause us no greater damage, it doesn't matter what those tools are: therapy, body work (dancing, yoga, etc.), writing (which is my own best tool), a focus on spirituality... it doesn't matter. We just need to find our center, discover what grounds us. Probably, there are other ways to lift ourselves out of frustration, also. They remain for each of us to discover.

One thing's for sure: community helps. Self-honesty, coupled with our knowledge that we're not alone, can be tremendously uplifting. I think this is where change starts. (Notice, by the way, that this can be applied to SO's as well as to CD's!).

Anyway, I ought to close. You know, it's really strange in a way, I don't really care if anyone reads this or not; it just feels mighty fine to be able to articulate my own thinking on these issues. Having a venue where I can put my thoughts out there is just a bonus. The real treat for me is being exposed to other ways of thinking and other ways of being, to the possibility of my informing and educating myself about the mystery of who we are--both as crossdressers and as human beings. This forum is a good place for that. And there's no better example than threads such as this one.

Thanks, Maggie.

Thanks to all who participate.

Love,
CJ

[Loretta Ann]

Well then CJ. let me attempt to change another person's state of knowledge here.

I am personally...presently struggling with the fact that even though I was a cross dresser. I now find some things about cross dressing repulsive. I cringe at some of the pictures and mental images expressed. I cringe at the remembrance of some of the things I once wore and what they did to me.

I mention this only to illustrate that the state of knowledge can come into conflict with what is inside of a person. It is like the head knows one thing while the heart knows something different.

So when one is not accepting or willing to be accepting it may well be that they are unwilling to fight against their inner self. This may be why some SOs express a desire to pass on the educational part of the situation.

[Maggie]

Thanks, CJ. Just to have the opportunity to formulate and express and share one's thoughts with other TG sisters brings some degree of relief.

[CJ]

Hi all,

Loretta,

I understand you're conflicted about your desires. Believe it or not, that's par for the course when you're a human being, regardless if that conflict is over crossdressing or something else.

Einstein once said that "science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." In the same way, I believe that the "head" without the "heart" (or emotions) is lame--i.e., ineffectual, unable to act--and the "heart" without the "head" is blind. The heart--what moves us, what makes us act in the world--is blind without some knowledge of where we are in the world and how we're supposed to get to where we want to go.

It's not even an unfortunate development that you find some things repulsive about crossdressing because, well, that's par for the course, too: all purges are born, at least in part, from this need to split off this essential part of who we are and throw it away as far from us as possible (as though it were a sinful member of our body). It doesn't matter if this repulsion has its root in moral, religious or emotional desires. The effect is the same: it requires of us that, rather than working at embracing who we are (a tough thing to do as even the realization that who we are has hurt other people is something we have to learn to accept), we split off from ourselves something our heart tells us we shouldn't allow. But, see, this is the problem: our heart isn't always right. It's often blinded by a lack not only of knowledge but of self-knowledge.

I'm just trying to help you, here, Loretta. There'll come a day when you'll be able to love and embrace yourself, to truly appreciate yourself in your entirety and for who you are. There are sound psychological, emotional, philosophical, and even spiritual reasons not only to do so but to actually *want* to do so. Once you discover those reasons (and this is where the quest for knowledge and self-knowledge can help), condemnation (and/or self-condemnation) will take up less room in your life. You'll find that your need to judge (both yourself and others) will diminish in time.

If you cannot love yourself and accept yourself, it's mighty difficult to love and accept other people. By the same token, if you find some characteristic about who you are to be repulsive and that same characteristic is shared by other people, it has to be hard for you not to find it repulsive in others as well. Possible, I'll admit, but hard nonetheless. And, truly, the last thing we need on this board is another person to suggest, even if only implicitely, that who we are or what we do is wrong or repulsive. We get enough of that out there in the so-called "real" world.

May you one day find your own beauty, Loretta. Until then, I wish you well. You have much to offer but it's sometimes hard to see it through the thin veil of self-loathing you wear.

CJ