Crossdressers-Haven.com

I've seen a few posts where workplace experiences are mentioned.

I have a wonderful opportunity to be involved with a new project that will try to assist (specifically) transgender people in their search for quality employment.

Can you tell me some of your experiences? I'd like to hear both positive and negative.
Thanks.

Terri
This new project does sound like a great opportunity. I have never tried to come to the work place dressed in anything except the traditional male role. I have been a marine mechanic (of course, for a boat person), worked retail parts, and now I work as a drafter for a Geology section. In all of these jobs I have worked along side, or have been associated with women (gg's) in a simular position as mine. I would not like to be treated the way these women are treated. There is a gross lack of respect and cooperation shown to these independent and hard working women by their male counterparts. Until these men can put away their ego, and stash their pride, I am afraid to even venture into that realm.
There is one young woman, 30+ yrs old, that is a driller in this section. She just returned from a 2 week trip to a remote area of Alaska with her crew of drillers helpers. She reported to me this morning (almost in tears, poor thing) that she was cursed at, belittled, and just plain given a hard time. The drill rig is left at the site and 4-wheelers are used to transport men & materials to the job site. The more experienced operaters refused to help her take the vehicle up and over an embankment saying to her, "If you can't drive the f_'en thing, then go home". She did manage to move the 4-wheeler up and over the embankment on the second try, but not after flipping it over on top of her and injuring her wrist and leg. She also had safety problem due to the helpers leaving tools and equipment laying around for anyone to trip over. As a man, I could go to my supervisors and demand that something be done, she does not have this option. I'm afraid that she has burned several bridges because of her opinion regarding operational differences with the higher-ups. Now, I must admit that this young woman is like most of us, "We create our own problems." Just in the way we mis-communicate with other people we create problems.
As I said in the beginning, I would be afraid to challenge the system in which I work. This does not mean that I would not like things to change, I just know that we have a long way to go to evolve.
Is this what you were looking for in your request for experiences?
Rose

Hi Rose, thanks for your response. It sounds like your friend is having a terrible time at work. That work sounds very rough, I don't think I could handle it.

I'm actually hoping to hear about workplace experiences of crossdressers. I want to know what you face when you come out to your employer or coworkers.
Thanks.

Hi, Terry,

Don't know if this would be helpful, because I have never dressed at work. I teach high school...and deal with a lot of people (students, mostly) who like to think of the world as either black and white. This "in between-ness" could prove difficult for me, professionally, and I've chosen simply to avoid the issue.

That said, I do have two colleagues who do know about me, though they have never met Karen enfemme. Both (gg's) have been absolutely supportive. My department head even suggested we go out for a glass of wine together "if feeling adventurous." I'm afraid I had to thank her kindly, but decline, since Karen is not out, locally. Still, I truly did appreciate the invitation. I should add, that she and I have had a number of heart to heart conversations regarding my transgenderedness, and she was thrilled for me, when I went to Esprit, earlier this spring.

I do wish I could dress at work...and I've been tempted on more than one occasion...but (as was pointed out to us at Esprit) coming out isn't just about me. It's about the lives of other people who are close to us, too. I'm prepared to live with the consequences of people knowing about me...it's taken awhile to get there, though. But that said, my wife is not. (Give her credit...she's come a long, long way since I finally told her, but this is still difficult for her.) My son doesn't know. My daughter says she is supportive, but I'm not prepared to put her to the test. Confronting your parents' sexuality is difficult at best...even more so when it's something unusual, like this is. I don't want to make any of them feel uncomfortable, so while I do go out, it's always done with discretion, and definitely at a distance. Dressing at work? Oh, I wish I could, but it's not going to happen.

On the other hand, with some preparation at school, I can only think that doing so would be tremendously good for a lot of kids...and maybe even a few staff members. (I am lucky to work at a very good school...with terrific administrators and thoroughly professional colleagues and friends.) But as for the students...I know a significant number of them struggle with gender and sexual orientation issues. Most feel terribly alone in this. They fear being shunned...or worse. Casual conversations reveal terrible prejudices. Graffitti scribbled on desk tops and lockers clearly carry the message that to be "different" is shameful...even sub-human: that it's okay to bully, harass, insult, and assault anyone who gay or lesbian...they don't even know about people who are trans. The atmosphere among students I can only describe as "poisonous." So, yes, I wish I could dress at school. There is more than one way to be "human" in the world. They need to see that. Sadly, I won't be the one to show them.

Karen

Hi all,

Okay, folks, I got it from the, uh, mare's mouth, that this project Terri will be working on stands a chance to make a real difference in the lives of trans individuals who will come under its purview. This call for experiences in the workplace is a golden opportunity for us to shine rather than whine, to leave a trace of our own lipstick on the changing spirit of our times.

Here's a little thought experiment: if you, as an openly trans person (CD, TS, whatever), were to go look for work in, say, San Francisco or Los Angeles, what is it that you think you'd need in order to "make it happen"?

As far as workplace experiences go, I do have a few of my own. But, first, a little background. I've never applied for a job crossdressed or otherwise openly trans (however, I did open a bank account as Christina--what a strange trip!); I've never, until very recently, made any kind of demands relating to my gender expression upon my employers; I've never long hidden my transness from my employers (but I only revealed it once I'd been working for them for a while and they'd gotten to know me well enough to respect me and admire my work ethic). So, although I do have workplace experiences to relate, I'm not sure how helpful they'll be for what Terri has in mind.

The first time I "came out" at work, about sixteen years ago, I was working as a magazine and book store manager. I was careful to hide this from my bosses at the time, but I did reveal my "quirk" to colleagues. After all, as long as the sales were good (and they were better than good), the higher-ups had nothing to say in the matter; no, it was the people I worked with on a daily basis that I felt I wanted to bring into the circle of "those who know" (I'd already been pretty open about this side of me with friends and family for quite some time by then)--not everyone, mind you... just those I'd come to trust. I'd already come to terms with the possibility that, like meddling with genetic manipulation or nanotechnology, this wasn't anything I'd ever be able to control once the cat was out of the bag. And the damned thing was fairly shredding and howling its way out, anyway.

Well, nothing ever came of it. The people I told were mildly surprised, mildly curious, and mildly indifferent, in roughly equal measures. Nobody--not even the guy who was hankering after my job--went running to the head honchos with this news. Basically, nobody cared. Strangely (or maybe not) this was simultaneously heartening and disheartening to me.

From then on, it's never been a question for me; I've always let, if not always my bosses, then at least most of my colleagues know about my femme side. People often ask me why. They say it's best to tell only if people need to know. While that may be true (presumably in the interest of keeping the workplace machinery well-oiled and snag-free), it's also true--if not more so--that my own "productivity" inevitably declines when I become prey to gender-related depression and anxiety. It then becomes not a matter of other people needing to know but, rather, of me needing to tell. I "tell" for two reasons, mainly: one, I'll go mad if I must continue to live with this alone and, two, I want my own life to be a testament to the fact that, as Jessica so aptly put it, there's more than one way of being human in the world. Call it a little consciousness-raising PSA.

Today, at my current workplace, my boss and all my colleagues (all forty-one of them) know about--and have, at the very least, seen photos of--Christina. Some have spent time with my "other half." One--Carole, who quickly became a very good friend--has even helped me out in my transformations (body waxing, etc.). When I started having major psychological difficulties last fall, my boss insisted that I "look after my wholeness": take a couple of months off (paid sick leave), he said; "dress" if that's what you need to do, he said; find a therapist if you think it'll help, he said; visit some of your forum friends down in the U.S. if you have the means (I didn't) and the inclination, he said. Last summer, I even went to one of our weekly meetings dressed. Okay, so there were only two others of my team members present, but still. The point is, this is the first time in my life on the job market that I feel I can be as fully myself as possible and, oh wonder of wonders! only good things are coming of it. In fact, now I sort of have to deal with a surfeit of attention as there are a couple of my female colleagues who really, really want to meet and to go party with "Christina" (ech! believe it or not, I'm still too shy!).

When I told my boss earlier this year that I wanted to introduce subtle changes in my appearance that would, uh, "facilitate," my occasional transformations, he said three things: 1) "While at work, do not go where our clients won't be able to follow you." 2) "If anyone--anyone: staff or clients--gives you a hard time, tell me and I'll deal with it." 3) "If you happen to meet a client downtown while dressed as Christina and he or she asks you what the get-up is about (assuming they recognize you), tell them quite firmly that it's none of their business--you're their case-worker, not their friend." Well, I'm not too sure how successfully I'd be able to carry out this last; I'll see when the situation crops up.

My boss made sure that I understood that he usually hires men with a very strong feminine component to their personality. Men capable of compassion, caring, listening, empathy; men comfortable with the often difficult emotional aspects of existence; men who can "connect" easily to other people; men who don't judge; men who are open and have a love for the mystery of being human. He looks for the same thing in women.

All in all, I'd say I have it pretty good right now. He did tell me, however, that my going to meet clients "en femme" is just not going to happen; these are people who are eminently "normal-seeking" and having their male case-worker show up in heels and a dress won't do anything to put them at ease. Although I think he grossly underestimates our clients' ability to appreciate diversity, I fully intend to abide by his wishes. I mean, he's the boss, eh?

One thing I can say for sure is this: in my experience, it matters little what your appearance is... if you can do the job and do it better than the next person, you can wear women's slacks and sheer blouses but you'll be hired and you'll be kept; if you cannot do the job (and do it well) you can cover your panties, stockings and corset with the most expensive Savile Row suit and wear Serengeti Driver sunglasses, you're still heading for a pink slip.

Now, for the little "thought-experiment" I mentioned at the beginning of this post, this is what would work for me. The following conditions would have to be met for me to consider availing myself of a trans-friendly employment program:

- I'd have to be openly trans
- I'd have to be assured that there exist anti-discrimination laws in that city or state and that these laws protect transgendered folks
- it would have to include a mechanism whereby it's possible to match trans-friendly potential employers with my particular skills set
- it would make room for a more or less lengthy period of "psychological adjustment" to the idea of working (and, possibly, of living) in a preferred gender
- it would offer access to appropriate health services
- it would have to be flexible and responsive to the as yet poorly understood needs of transgender clients (if I don't see that third bathroom in the waiting room of that program's offices, what are the chances that employers will be any more savvy?)
- in the same vein as the above, it would have to be coupled with an awareness-raising program that would let potential employers know that we are out there (and that we are legion!)
- it would have to include at least one openly trans person on its implementation team
- finally, it would have to have shown me, unequivocally, that it works.

I wish you much success with this, Terri! C'mon, folks! Chime in on this one; it's important. There are people working for change here!

Love,
CJ

Hi Terri,

I read this article a couple of months ago, in the papers. It speaks volumes about the need to educate bosses in issues surrounding Transgenderism and the law relating to it. I hope it may be of use to you.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 00460.html


Love,
Curly.

In my first career I worked in the mental health profession. For several years I worked as an aide in a hospital. In terms of employer expectations we were expected to appear professional but casual, clothing that would be suitable to play basketball with the patients in. A gym teacher type look. At that time I had my left ear pierced which at that time signified that I was gay, although in my case it merely signified that one night I was too drunk to tell my left from my right. The employer could have cared less about that, hair length, or beards etc as long as we seemed genererally neat and clean.

It is important to understand that my job at times involved restraining psychotic patients against their will when they were unable to control their behavior. They sometimes found this relatively minor manifestation (piercing of the left ear) of differences to be very threatening.

We also had a number of adolescents on the unit of various diagnosises, the most common being the catch all "adolsecent adjustment reaction" They also found this very threatening. Later I moved to the substance abuse unit. Patients there were not threatened but were concerned for me and several times cautioned me that if I was ever arrested, say for traffic tickets, to be sure to remove the earing prior to incarceration.

After a few months I merely switched the earing to the other ear and all concerned were happy. I was somewhat astonished at the power of the reaction to such a small thing. I can't imagine trying to function in such an environment crossdressed. On the other hand we did have transgendered patients. This almost seemed less threatening as it was not percieved as sexual, rather as a gender issue. I think this is a very important distinction. Crossdressing as a sexual fetish vs as a reflection of gender. Anything that might be viewed as being overtly sexual opens up a whole other set of baggage that does not get discussed here that much. It is a concept that women have to consider often with the whole "conservately sexy" look.

Later I had another career in architecture. I worked in several small offices in designing people homes. I found that I constantly ran into trouble with the bosses concerns about clients perceptions. The hair was too long, I had a beard, the earing, I didn't wear a tie and so on. It seemed very important that I fit some sort of corporate image. Any type of artistic non conformity was viewed as dangerously unstable (even though I thought of architecture as an art form) and irresponsable. Remember that we were after all designing things which would cost our clients large sums of money. As one person told me, I needed to look like someone who their clients could look to tell them how to live in terms of the status symbol of their home. We had very wealthy clients for the most part.

I couldn't figure out why I was expected to wear a tie and nice shoes when I was going to be running around a muddy job site on a hot summer day. Eventually however I realized that what was going on was our dress was being used to differentiate us from the contractor and their workers. So there were really two issues going on, one being that of class and the other of assurance of stability and impeccable personal style which usually translated into trying to look like our clothing was expensive and terribly conservative but still fashionable. THere is a book called Dress For Success which discusses all the implied messages of clothing which explains all this very well. I guess the basic point is in a world where the important question is not do I wear a tie but what color tie is appropriate, crossdressing is going to be far too over the top for most employers. The idea that my type of attire might lose them a potential client is of course the bedrock issue.

I now have my own practice and find I don't have to worry about this much (plenty of clients) although I still fight with myself about what to wear to the jobsite on a muddy 95 degree day. But it may have to do with my fees being far lower more than anything else. I am not expected to look at home in the yacht club anymore.

To tell the truth I often have trouble believing that folks here go to work dressed in any way that is noticable. Although again I think that someone who is truly trans sexual would perhaps recieve sympathy for their plight if they tried to present as a normal corporate woman.

In terms of discrimination, it is my experience that if you work somewhere for any length of time you will manage to do something that could be cause for termination. That will be used even if it is not the real reason. And in a small office of perhaps a half dozen people the interpersonal relationships are everything in the job. As the new person one must constantly project a reassuring image to the others.

To most employers the ability to work well with others is a job skill at least as important as any technical ability. The moment we call that into doubt, by our dress, demeanor, verbal expression of ideas, or anything, we are on very thin ice.

Absaroka

Hmmm,

Don't know that I have any real experiences. Used to dress on the sly in the morning before the others came in to the office. One secretary knew and was fine with it.

Currently, I wear jewelry. Pierced earrings, faux pearl/silver ring and a silver bracelet. Sometimes a fem watch.

One attorney tried to make a gay comment about the earrings, but I set him straight before he even finished his comment.

Another attorney and one secretary commented they liked my bracelet.

Other than that, no one else has said anything. Not even my boss, which is quite surprising, considering. But I guess if you good at what you do, allowances are made.

Seems some companies, if large enough, have HR departments and a couple of local girls have mentioned going through them when transitioning on the job.

Hi Terri and all.
I'm transitioning, so take my position with a grain of salt!
I do feel that a change in clothing and accessories that is viewed as a permanent alteration by both the trans and his friends and employers is much more likely to fly than a back and forth "Oh lets see, I feel like a girl today so I'll have a skirt, or I feel more like a man today so a man's suit for work", etc. attitude. In our modern society, I just can't see how that can work.

Oh, I know, there have been numerous thread with people moaning about "Girls can wear guy clothes, but guys' can't wear girl clothes--It's not fair!!! Well, don't forget that humans manipulate and depend upon symbols to replace other dimming senses (such as smell), and one of the main such is clothing and accessories. Even within groups- as the example of the ear-ring shows- symbols are important (whether clothes or expensive watches) to provide information about potential intentions or realtive status for example. When you switch sexual cues or symbols, you do not want to create confusion; you need to become as close to a member of the group you are protraying as you can, as mixed signals can breed hostility. Even with gender neutral clothes. There are good reasons why so called gender-benders who blend or play with gender cues often find themselves unemployed and unemployable! Most men, whether gay or straight, can't understand transsexuals, so how are they likely to deal with gender-f-- errr-ahhh, bending?

Men in our culture consider that they are of higher status than women, and just do not seem to be able to deal with the idea that a "man" would dump all his "male privilages" and be a girl, much less voluntarily cut off that piece of flesh they seem to view as more important than---anything.


This is too long. Guess that's all, FWIW. Goodnight Gracie, and congrats!!

Carolynn

Thanks for all your replies!
CJ I kind of wish you could come and participate in the program! (I know you're happy with your current employer, though. I doubt you'd find comparable benefits here!)

Karen,
I think to some degree high school attitudes will never really change much. My daughter takes a class called Peer Resources where they attempt to open the minds of these kids but I think they are just confused by it all. You've got to admit, being trans is hard to get your mind around whether its you or the kid sitting next to you. Maybe harder if its you. Do you think preparing that trans kid for future employment should be approached differently?

Curly,
Thanks for the article. When I started to research this aspect of trans, I realized that there are laws in place specifically protecting transgendered people from discrimination. It was actually encouraging to me and made me appreciate (as always) the place I live.

Absaroka,
You make some very good points. I am always interested in reading your posts. One point you make is about crossdressing as a fetish and making the distinction between that and the transexual. For fetish CD, there's no need to bring their CD/Transness to the workplace, that is nobody's business and has no place at work.

A person who has transitioned or is mid transition or very soon to transition and unemployed (whether or not the unemployment was caused by the transition) is probably going to need some help to find secure employment. I think that is the likely target for this project. Do you really think they would receive more sympathy than an androgynous person?

DonnaT,
Thanks especially for directing me (via PM) to MHB and Gracie's post (I miss Beauty here!) I had left that forum some time ago after I got an a email that they were shutting down. Glad its still going strong. I'll be asking for input there too soon.
T.

I think in some circles the trnasitioning person would receive more sympathy than an androgynous one because they are not challenging the idea that we must be one or the other. Thus transitioning is percieved as correcting a problem the better to conform to societies expectation of either or.

I thought the comment about the sexual fetishism not belonging in the workplace was right on the mark. I am not clear about all the reasons I crossdress but I know sex plays a part in it. Sometimes I like to think about just getting over on everyone with my little secret. A sort of F you to society, an attitude I excel at but which is really not something to encourage in myself. It is different from rebelling against something needed to be questioned, although in the throes of reliving an adolescent attitude problem it is hard to distinguish.

Cross dressing makes me feel good. So does sex. So does simple sexual arousal. Very easy to rationalize this into other stuff about who I really am, just like a million bosses have rationalized the affair with the secretary and vice versa. But I need to go with my gut feeling which is that although I have a variety of motives for me this is private and there is no need for it to be expressed in the workplace. As opposed to what I strongly believe is a need for me to be accepting of other in such a situation and thus set a good example.

In my prior job in the institution for example we would talk from time to time with the adolescents about tolerance and try to be role models in this area. In dealing with their reaction to trans sexual patients this usually meant fostering solidarity- they were all patients there with some of the same problems. (Foremost in their minds was often the problem of dealing with the staff LOL) While also remaining open to the fact that they might have a lot of other very personal reasons as to why they sometimes reacted as they did. In a non gender situation I remember we had to restrain a teenage girl at change of shift. When women were restrained there always had to be at least one female present and when there was a lot of sexual ideation going on we would have as many as possible. But it still fell on the younger men to do the actual physical work. One of the other aides had just come on shift and had been drinking (another story) Well the patient totally freaked over the smell on his breath. Not surprising when because her mother was a violent alcholic. I am giving this example because we never know what baggage another carries. I realize that this has strayed far from your question.

Absaroka

Hi Carolynn,
Your post was not too long. In fact I'd like to read more. This comment in particular ...
"There are good reasons why so called gender-benders who blend or play with gender cues often find themselves unemployed and unemployable!"

I mentioned to CJ that a really good job readiness program would have a mental health and substance abuse treatment as a component available to the participants. This is true for all programs, not just one targeting the trans population. It would not be a requirement for each but it should be available so that all the barriers to success can be addressed.

When you say unemployable, is that because they are not willing or able to accept that they must adjust their behavior or appearance in order to maintain employment (don't we all?). Might some level of therapy help them?
Please don't read this as I'm saying they should not be true to their own selves and can be fixed, I'm not saying that at all. But what do you think it might take to help those individuals become employable?

Hi Terri. I suppose what I was thinking is that there is a tendency among some young people to be in-your-face with their individuality. This does not make it easy for them to be hired in any but low paying service industry jobs. This attitude also seems to stem from a lack of education and self esteem, so yes, a training program that concentrates on helping people to find the self esteem, education, and social attitudes (and I didn't mean total conformity either--just that there can be a time and a place and the employer calls the tune for his song, ya' know? If a youngster interviews for a job with punk makeup and slang for a language, that person will not be employable. I have know several that I was certain possessed a high native intelligence, dropped out of school due to boredom and low socioeconomics, but dressed in some "IN" clothes (also called drugging pants) and slouched into the interview, and they were leaving in three minutes without even a consideration. One cleaned up, returned a few days later and spoke intelligently, and was hired. What does that tell you?

Like it or not, androgenous clothing and symbolic accessories can sometimes push the limits of the employer's acceptability level. Most are there to make money, and employees that do not leave a favorable impression on the customer usually do not make sales. Employees that lack self esteem are more likely to steal from the job, and not just nickle and dime stuff either. Most give the impression that the work of training them would be wasted on the employer's part because they will not stay with the job. All these things need to be emphasized, and it doesn't matter if the person is transgendered or not. It pertains to all, in my opinion.

The job readiness program combined with some level (or maybe varying levels) of therapy would be a darn good start. Good people start with good self esteem, and there are TONS in the transgender world that are lacking in that. Living with the idea you are flawed in some manner according to the dictates of society is not geared to a positive self image. At the same time, a person needing to transition is going to need a way to deal with that too. It may be very hard for anyone not in that positon to understand, but it is very, very real and can be awfully intense.

I now know 5 people transitioning in the work place at jobs they held before transition, and one that is trying to enter the workplace. He's a young kid we will call Trey for the fact he is dealing with a triple problem. He is young, a highschool dropout, born female, self identifies as male, and has a sexual orientation to males. To add to that, he came out to his well off folks and they kicked him out without a dime. After about 6 months, they relented and have found ways to help him a little while still making their attitude clear, and after two years, he has a job making a decent though low salary so he can live. He never sank in his journey to prostitution, quite, but wasn't far off. He needed to finish school but had a hard time avoiding discrimination and hate from his peers. Trey first started searching for a job as a semi-goth in dress, and all he could find was short term, low paying jobs, or decent jobs with telemarketers that he realized were unethical and quit. He now has cleaned up his act, and though he has yet to start his hormones, he is in therapy and doing better than he was.

The older transitioners have gone through difficult journeys to get where they are. There are three F2M's and two M2Fs. The guys have done pretty well. All three were highschool dropouts, two had children during one or more early marriages, and all have pretty well completed the physical part of their transitions. Two transitioned on the same job they have now, and one changed jobs after his transition. They were considered lesbians (bull dykes) before transition, and two were already pretty well accepted in the work place as "one of the guys", at least to a degree. All three have now found lady friends and are settling into their new lives. So, dropout and self esteem problems can be overcome, but it would be nicer if it was earlier rather than later, huh.

The two gals are at different levels of their transitions, with one being a few months away from her gender affirmation surgery, and the other just being about 8 months into hormones. All have been married at least once looking for a cure. The "younger one we can call Ruth was happily married, but her wife died from cancer after 13 years of marriage and she decided nothing was keeping her from transition anymore. She has a real good job (an engineer well up into the hierarchy of a major company, and she wants to work there until early retirement at 55 then complete her transition. She is running into the "cascade effect" that destroys the rational plans of so many of us, and she is now thinking she can only hold off coming out to her employers a couple of years at most instead of the 5 years she had planned. She anticipates she will be let go due to company policies when she does.

The other woman, we will call Lacey, went through two marriages, had three kids (all now grown and on their own) and divorced twice. She worked at her job for 6 years before she had to transition, and her company has been pretty good. Lacey is an electrical technician that operates more like an engineer. She has had a few problems with individuals over her year at full time, but she has done pretty well. Lacey has been on HRT for 16 months, and has had some FFS. She plans to change jobs or plants after gender affirmation surgery for a "clean start".

The difference between the economic circumstances of the F2Ms vs. the M2Fs is instructive as well, isn't it. The "guys-turned-girls" were able to get a good education with advantages of males, despite problems with self image. The F2Ms had all the problems that many younger women in this part of the country have with access to education and training, plus the low self esteem. Sets my teeth on edge to see it. Out of my HS graduating class, about half the girls started college. About 1/5th finished, all with teaching degrees. About half the guys started too (18 young males). Ten finished with BAs, 7 took advanced degrees, the rest dropped out, one going to Montana and eventually becoming the foreman of a ranch, a genuine cowboy!!!. Even the lowest payed male made more in the year 2000 than the woman teacher with highest degree and responsibility of multiple schools. GAAAAH. More than TG folks needs to be fixed!!!!

Well, this is well off thread and into rant. Sorryyyyyy.

Enough. Love, Carolynn

Well the I have technically dressed at work as I bought female jeans at Old Navy and was wearing them at work. I am sure that it was noticed but nothing was ever said. Then again the government agency I was working for has a rather strict Sexual Herassment Policy. At my job before that the closest I ever got to dressing at work was a rash guard shirt I wore for a Hawaiian themed company meeting. Yes it was bought in the womans section of Wal-mart as part of a two piece swim suit but it is rather unisex in it's design. One of my former co-workers from that job and a buddy of mine recently found my geocities page. He asked me about it and I told him I was not really hidding it. He is some what cool with it.