Crossdressers-Haven.com

Today I talked with a theraphist. Not sure what I want out of this but the guilt has got to stop. That seems to be her real concern, how I'm not dealing with guilt over the CD issue well. I did ask "have you worked with TV/CD before"-"Yes" "Have any of them been able to stop dressing permently"- (slight paues)-"No". Then she said"if you find one who says they can make it stop, run away"! I know others must have some experiance with theraphy. Results? Good , Bad? Waste of time?

Hi all,

Jill,

Yes. Good. Yes. Bad. Yes. Waste of time.

Working with a therapist who has experience with TG'd individuals is very valuable. However, as with any activity where we're required to do most of the work, we can only reap what we sow.

A good therapist will understand that this is an integral part of our psychosexual development; therefore, she won't try so much to help you quit dressing as she will to help you better handle the feelings of guilt and shame that are associated with crossdressing.

Best of luck in your healing process, Jill.

Love,
CJ

I can only second what CJ has said. It is good that the therapist has said it "won't go away!" If one does truly have the "gift!" it is really a blessing and learning to take full advantage of what it can provide you is a learning experience that is full of rewards!
I hope you will come to accept this "gift" that you have and learn that is can not only enhance your life, but those that your life touches whether your "en femme" or "en drab."
We are here for you also, so let us know how you are doing!!!!
Love,
Virginia

Yes, Jill, I'm glad the therapist knew the limitations that seem to be around this.

I vote a big "yes" for therapy, and I have gotten a lot out of the two talk therapists I've had. ("talk" as opposed to bodywork therapies.) I choose them carefully, though. I interviewed them, just as you did. I was in my late 30s the first time, and I knew I wanted someone who could handle my rough edges.

The second time I didn't have much say in the matter, because I was participating in a graduate student program. I got a good woman therapist out of that, who I continue to see over a year later. But if she had not been able to hold up under pressure from me, I wouldn't have felt shy about requesting someone else. It's your time and money you're investing, so make sure you're getting what works for you.

Hi Jill,

I’ve consulted with psychiatrists quite a few times over the years, the most recent being about 5 years ago when I started transitioning. I can say that for me personally it was a waste of time and money, but the latest episodes were compulsory or else the doctors wouldn’t have entertained my requests for entering transition.

I believe that a therapist may help in what may be termed the 'side effects' of TG issues, e.g guilt, but if you're looking for someone to help you stop doing it, then save your money. I quite realize that therapists may be of value to some people, but I’ve long been a believer that in most cases where people are being treated regarding TG issues, that we’re the best person, and indeed the only person who really knows what’s going on inside us. It’s impossible for another person to project themselves into our brain or body and be able to have any semblance of what exactly is happening inside us, how we feel etc, unless they are of the identical ilk as we. I found the only value I received from talking with a therapist was it was just someone to talk to, but what I gained from talking with therapists was insignificant as opposed to the value I got from sitting down face to face and talking to other genuine people from the TG world around me. We are the ones who know exactly what each of us are saying because we’ve lived the life and walked the walk, so to speak. Even if we can’t find the right words we know the feelings and the emotional side of it all, and I find that most times others know what I’m going to say before I say it and vice versa, it’s that sort of intimate, sensitive chemistry we have between each other, it’s something which can’t be acquired out of books or lectures, it comes with the hand we’re dealt.

I wish you well in a difficult time, but you’re embarking on a road so many have been down before you, and we all had to start somewhere to sort through it all. Once you come to the conclusion that the way it is, is the way it is, and won’t ever change, then you’re on your way. You can't ever alter it, but you can learn to manage it. Life is what you make it and it can be as good as you want it to be, it’s a matter of getting the mind right and looking forward. The only thing we get looking back is a stiff neck, so keep your focus on your future and making it the way you want it, so you can be happy.

You have nothing to feel guilty for in how you were made and you can’t change how you are, so you need to learn to manage your life so that you can find time to appease all your emotions. Finding solutions to what you see as issues effecting your emotional state is important, we all need to manage our lives so that each part of our personality and make-up receives the attention and time it needs so that we’re balanced in all aspects of our whole being, if you follow me. That part of you which needs fulfilling as far as your CD issues are concerned is a very integral and essential part of you, and if you’re feeling guilt for whatever reasons and it’s effecting your day to day operations, then I’d suggest that you take steps to make contact with people from a CD support group in your area, and make a time to sit down and talk face to face with one or more of those people who make themselves available for times such as you’re experiencing. You may just find that what you gain is invaluable and you’ll wonder why you didn’t do it sooner, plus, it won’t burn a hole in your pocket either.

Kind Regards,

Sally.

jill-
i've lost count as to how many psychologists, psychiatrists, licensed social workers, marriage & family certified counselors (MFCC) and others i've seen. the last person i saw weekly for a year and she specialized in working with men who crossdress. she wrote her thesis for her phd on it.

most of the people i've seen were not helpful at all. yet i continued to seek them out, hoping i was going to find someone with the silver bullet that would help me understand this strange compulsion. obviously, it hasn't happened and probably never will.

i've come to the following conclusion: there is quite likely some chemical or enzyme or protien in the brains of men who crossdress that is not apparent in other men. perhaps it's a synapse that has an unusual connection. not being a student of nuerology, i have no idea of the various things in the brain that could cause this behavior. however, regardless of what it is, it's there in me and there's virtually nothing i can do about it. of course, it being a type of behavior and as an adult, i should be in control of my behavior, theoretically, i should be able to contol my crossdressing, too. we all know it's not that simplistic.

i once attended a lecture by a man who won a nobel prize for his work in nuerosciences. his theory (which he kindly explained in the simplest of terms) is that the human brain is a mass of billions and billions of 'dots'. there are lines connecting the dots. as we learn, we create more lines to connect more dots. some people are born with lots of dots already connected. some people have difficulty connecting dots. it gave me a whole new appreciation for education: it doesn't really matter what we study as students, just as long as we're in the process of connecting dots. to put this in the context of crossdressing, somewhere in my brain it's possible that there are dots that are connected that make me want to dress and act like a woman.

i guess the point i'm trying to make is that regardless of what kind of therapy i seek, my brain is the way it is. if speaking with a trained professional gives me comfort or understanding, that's great. more than likely, though, it won't change a thing.

I found therapy quite helpful in accepting my CDing although it was not the reason I went to therapy. We have only discussed it a few times. My therapist had a number of perspectives which I had not considered. I think the right therapist might be very helpful.

The key is acceptance and to address this you must decide what have you done where guilt is appropriate. CDing violates so many taboos that this can be difficult. To give an obvious example shoplifting clothes ( not accusing anyone here, just giving an example) because we are embarrased to pay for them would be a valid reason for guilt over stealing and anxiety about what path we are taking. But even in this example how many of us at one time would have felt more guilty over wearing the clothes than we did about stealing them. And most of our guilt is less clear cut and help from others in sorting it out sounds like a good idea if you can't figure it out for yourself.

Let us know how it works out.

Absaroka

Hi Jill:

I am going to take a rather different approach to this thread perhaps.

I read your input. I then asked myself, “Danielle, how can you respond to this?” I really do not know Jill. She could have any combination of personal problems and conditions that are not nearly adequately described in the first entry of this thread.

So, how I can I really say anything worthwhile?

I think that only you know yourself best. Only you can decide what you need and do not need at the moment. Only you can decide to deal with or not deal with this “need” if you will, to cross-dress.

Let’s look together at this subject, shall we. Everything, and that is everything that you believe you know, was transmitted in one form or another to you over the years. Religion, science, philosophy, everything, even business concepts such as finances and capitalism are subjects that you learned from someone else.

So everything we believe is based pretty much on someone else’s opinion and information gathering. You suggest that you might not be happy with this thing we call here CDing. The “impulse” to do so is what may be bothering you more than the actual clothes.

That drive, or impulse to do so is different in everybody. Sure, the ultimate result is a change in clothing and from that, appearance, but, you still are the person that has evolved over the years. The real question that you should be asking in my opinion is, “who am I?”

Does my CDing interfere with my life? Is it sexual in nature? Masturbation or other attributes that may have shown up. What am I trying to accomplish? Is it serving me or am I a servant to the idea?

Who’s in charge?” Concept or concerned self?

That is what I would be asking my self. Remember that people in any field of endeavor are just people. We all wore diapers! If your first encounter in therapy did not go as expected, take a look at your contributions and those of the therapist.

Therapy of any kind typically takes time. This is beneficial to the therapist that charges by the hour. It too can be beneficial to you the patient, no long term contracts of obligation. You can stop when you want to.

So, think about what is “really bothering you” and be prepared on your next visit to spell it out. Air out the dirty laundry. Get your moneys worth by not holding back. How do you feel about yourself? Really?

Lastly, what is "guilt" and the feelings that are generated by it or from it?

When two conditions collide, with one out-weighing the other, we have a condition that can generate a complex set of feelings that we call guilt. If someone with greater authority, recognized by you, came over to your house and said, "guilt be gone," you are okay. How would you feel then?

Many wait for someone of greater authority to tell us we are okay. In this case, you are that person of higher authority and only need to tell yourself that you are okay. That the reason for the guilt feelings is that you have decided that their is a conflict with your beliefs.

When you can get this idea, you will soon feel better. The next revelation will be to accept your new found self or reject it as you have come to believe it to be. For some it is good, others, not so good. What is it really for you? Truth shall set you free.!!!!!!

Hugs

Danielle Marie

I don't mean to sound flip. However, I want to say this about guilt, a most human emotion.

I have a size 12 1/2 AA foot. This makes me a tremendous rarity, about 1 in 10,000. I am not accepted at most shoe stores. They have nothing for me. They would like me to leave, and never come back. I have never met another person with size 12 1/2AA feet. Oh, I know they must exist, but I have never even met anyone who really understands how it feels to have a 12 1/2 AA foot. The callous disregard for my needs, the insults, the lack of respect, and the extroardinary high cost of obtaining shoes that I can wear safely, all of this grows very old, very quickly.

There is nothing I can do really about the size of my feet. They will never change.

Suppliers and shoe store chains and manufacturers discontinue my size at a whim. I am not wanted or needed or understood. I am a freak.

If I was talking about crossdressing, one would think I might feel guilty about it. But I am talking about my feet. But seriously, what is the difference? Why should I feel guilty about my feet? Why should I feel guilty about my crossdressing? So I am different. Almost everyone is different on some visible way. So what?

Now of course this is a purely logical discussion, having no bearing on one's emotions. However, only you can accept yourself. So tell your guilt to get lost, and stay that way.

Love yourself first!

Hugs,

Bernice

Bernice

I am not wanted or needed or understood. I am a freak.

Sorry to hear of your bad experiences buying shoes but that doesn't make you a freak. I'm sure there are people out there who would be only too happy to help you find what you need. I would take your own sage advice where you said..

However, only you can accept yourself. So tell your guilt to get lost, and stay that way.

because it's true that you can't change certain things. When you can accept that, then it shouldn't matter what others think about you. Be proud and be you!

Stephanie

Well here is an update: I cancelled my next apptment with her. I was very comfortable with her, but my wife wants someone who shares her religous views. We have an appontment next week with someone she found. I think my wife is dealing with me being TV less well than I first thought. Maybe it's sinking in and becomeing real to her? She won't come here and ask questions and I don't even want to suggest a local support group! I'm becomeing worried that she will retreat into some "quit or else" attitude. I've been holding off any urges untill tonight. It felt real good to Unstress myself while I had the house to myself. I don't plan to tell her about tonight, feels like I'm crawling back to the closet. Sorry for rambling, but as always nowere else to go for now. Jill

Jill,
You open up for us a lot of speculation! I will not even venture a comment other than, please stay with us and keep us posted as things develop. We are here to support each other and we are here for you!
Love,
Virginia

Hi Jill. I to have thought about seeing a therapist. I have also read on here and elsewhere that CDing is not something that can stopped. A therapist can only help us accept what/who we are. I have also had the feelings from my wife that I just want to stop and make things better. But the desire always comes back, maybe a few weeks or months later, but it has always come back. A couple of years ago I was so down I was shaking at times,not talking much, etc. Even my kids and in-laws knew something was wrong with me ( they don't know about Valerie tho ). It passed as I started thinking to myself that I wasn't changing and just to go with the flow. The dressing is a little more then in the past but not as much as I would like ( love dresses ), mostly it was just mental change. Still trying to ease my wife into accepting it ( she still thinks I'm turning gay). I have started to read more about CDing and hope to get her to read/talk to me about it also. It would be so nice if our SO's would be more open and understanding,wouldn't it?

Valerie wrote:I have started to read more about CDing and hope to get her to read/talk to me about it also. It would be so nice if our SO's would be more open and understanding, wouldn't it?

Valerie and Jill -

Have you invited your SO's to join the forum, or at least take a look at the forum's posts? If they were seriously interested in understanding more about what makes you, you - then I would hope they would at least read the posts made here by the other SO's and CD's. They would learn that they are not alone, that you are not the only one who CD's, that your CDing will not go away (although it may peak and wane over the years).

Best of all, IMHO, is they would learn that they have a precious gift in their hands - - a man who is in touch with his femme side, who more fully understands and appreciates a woman in all her many moods (and also sympathizes/empathizes along with her). I know that I am so blessed to have Virginia in my life - my soul mate - and I love her as much as I do him, not one more than the other, but equally. I just wish others were to find the same love and happiness that we have found.

We are here for you, so please let us know how things progress - we hope for the better!!



- SL

Jill S wrote:Well here is an update: ..... my wife wants someone who shares her religous views. Sorry for rambling, but as always nowere else to go for now.

Jill, I have been where you are at, my wife struggling with her religious beliefs and only wanting to seek a counselor with similar beliefs. It is not as hopeless as you may think it is. But it will take some work on your part.

Instead of re-writing some past information the following are some links to other posts from this forum that discuss counseling and religion. And after that is a composite/rewrite of some information that I posted on a different forum that I hope will help you in seeing you can get through it.

http://crossdressers-haven.com/forums/v ... highlight=

http://crossdressers-haven.com/forums/v ... sc&start=0

http://crossdressers-haven.com/forums/v ... ght=#48509


The following are parts of several other posts I have made on a different forums:

When my wife got to her breaking point with my CDing, I was lucky in the fact that my wife said we both needed to go to a counselor to work this out. The unlucky part is she already had several counselors’ names that were all Christian based. And these counselor names were not only all Christian based but also housed in a seminary school counseling center.

So we went in as a couple to work on CDing issues, and the first thing the counselor does is quote the DSM. My wife then asks something along the lines of what does the Bible say about CDing? Well he skirts (yes pun intended) the question by going into saying something like, most anything pertaining to a couples sexual relationship within a marriage is ok as long as it is ok with both spouses and within the marriage. So after that 10 minute or so non-answer to my wife’s question, she asks the question again and he goes into another non-answer dealing with relationships, trust, and deception. So once again my wife asks the question, Is CDing ok according to the bible. And he replies that it is not.

I come away from the session confused because of what he talked about was not me as the DSM definition does not fit me. But we schedule another session as I knew this was currently the only option I had at working on things with my wife.

Second session, I right away try to get the counselor to clarify where he got the backing for his statement of CDing not being right, and he goes into the relationship stuff, quoting some scripture and other information. He then goes into "Other issues" . We finish the session that he will see my wife next time and both of us after that. I come out going, what happen to working on the CDing issues that we came here for.

Well I only end up seeing him one more time because he states that he can no longer be my counselor due to conflict issues and besides the third time none of his information on CDers had changed. I leave thinking we came in here as a couple. But after several months my wife is working through some of her issues and he has been good for that.

Well after these several month my wife is felling better, but there is little resolve to CDing issues, so my wife gets a referral for a different counselor for me, which is at the same place. Well this one is a gal, we discuss why I am there and fairly quickly she quotes out of the DSM but this counselor did not keep shoving it back at me, and kept listening. Then it came, it was than an addiction, and I figure here we go again. But she listened and we discussed and she at least seemed more open minded. So I schedule more sessions to work on my CDing issues.

Well through my sessions I end up doing a lot of teaching of what many CDers and specifically me are not and I believe I surprise her often. She seemed completely unaware of any of the information that was out there on CDers. We worked worked about half of the time on some of my other issues and how to communicate better with my wife.

But the big thing that both my wife and I do is we have our own personal session with each other after each session and also at other times, just me and my wife communicating and discussing things. And it was not unusual for these sessions to last a couple of hours or longer. Most of our working through of the CDing issues have been in our own personal sessions.

After about a year since starting this, between the counselors, my wife and I we decide to also do some couples counseling to work more on bettering our communication with each other. And of course we need a third counselor to do this. So now we have hers, mine, and ours. Well session one goes ok and of course this counselor quickly quotes out of the DSM for what a CDer is. Just great. Well we decide to continue and work on bettering our communications. Well after a few sessions we also attend a Tri-Ess SPICE event, as oked by all of the counselors for my wife to feel better about it. Also about this time I finally get a straight answer from the first counselor/my wife's, that the statements he made about religion view of CDing were society views. This aids with us working through issues.

What I think what made our counseling work is both of us wanted to make things work and our sessions after the sessions. My wife and I did a lot of talking out side of the sessions between our selves. This seems to surprise all of our counselors.

I was finally able to get all three counselors to say that there is nothing point blank in the bible against CDing. Yes you heard me right, nothing in bible against CDing, noting intro above, Christian based counselors housed in a seminary. Only society "Norms" were against CDing and many of the other things that get blamed on or thought they are related to CDing, such as homosexuality, sex outside of the marriage, multiple partners, treating your wife wrong/lack of respect, deception ...and others.

An another thing is that both my wife an I each have a journal that we wrote and still write in. Personally I wrote done ramblings, thoughts, possible solutions, reflections, talks we had, tasks I did for the counselors. It became a collection of information that allowed us to look back and forward as we worked on things.

Even if you can not find help with counselors with the gender/CDing, have them work with the two of you on the communications and any other personal issues. My wife and I are proof that even Christian based counselors can help a CDer and his wife work through things and become better at communicating with each other. If both partners are committed to the marriage/relationship and both want to and actively work at the relationship.

I with you both good luck with your discussions and counseling.

KimberlyS - CD