Crossdressers-Haven.com

Hi everybody,

As I was around such a short time before I bailed about 6 months ago, I don't think many will remember me. Those of you who replied to my few posts though probably will remember after some more info. I have missed your input and could have written before now but as you will see, there have been many other things to do on my road to recovery.

I was married for 12 years, in the relationship for 16. My ex knew about my desire to wear panties early on, but I let it lie (NPI) for many years and never revealed the rest. I told her again about 9 months ago or so and thus began the road to our marriage's final demise. There were of course other issues, mostly my desire to view porn and lying to her about that as well (she decided that I had a sex addiction and CDing was a part of it). I had decided during the summer time that both of these issues had to go and did several things to deal with my "issues." I came back to her after a week long self-development course, which was really amazing, and I felt very strong and capable of choosing anything. I told her I was done with CDing. I was. For about two or three weeks. Than the desire was back full force and I hid it from her.

But that wasn't the only issue for me. My "best" friend was staying with us most of these months. He was on the road a lot, so for a while it didn't bother me to have another man in the house. He was such a "good" friend that I told him about CDing and he was "honest" with me about an ocassional attraction to my ex. I was so trusting, and blind. I found out on the day before New Year's (four months since our separation) that my wife and he are romantically involved. I don't know if it has been sexual or not, my wife has historically been pretty prudish, but regardless they were getting emotionally involved during the marriage. I had seen it happening and did say I had a problem with some of what I saw. But I let her convince me everything was okay and to let him stay until he was able to move into his own place. Ugh. Lot of shame there some days, but it is starting to get better finally.

So, I am dealing with all that as best I can. I have seen a counselor regularly, met several good friends since the divorce and developed some past friendships. Some of my friends know about my cding and others don't. You can guess which ones I feel closest to. I have been out partying and dancing (and quite a bit) for the first time in my life and it has been wonderful to get out and have a good time.

Of course, despite moving on in life and getting out and enjoying it as best I can, the grief and fear are often huge. Despite all the crap from my wife I still feel very deep love for her, even if I couldn't still be married to her (sometimes I still am delusional enough to think I could). I at least thought we would be able to be friends because we were for a while, but under these circumstances I just can't be that way with her.

So, onto the specific issues related to CDing. I have never been as open to my desires/needs as I am right now. However, now that she is out of the picture I clearly see that the choice is fully mine of how I want to live my life. Now that I have a choice, it doesn't seem so simple.

My biggest thing is that in the short-term, I really want to have sex with a woman, or women for that matter. I am obviously not going to be ready for a relationship for a long time, but I do want to make love. I wear panties all of the time, except when I go out to party. I keep drab underwear in my trunk to wear in case I meet someone elsewhere or decide to go to a bar after work. I am afraid that if I wear panties, I may end up with woman who just wants to have sex with me and she will be turned off, or worse, when she finds out. I also want more and more as the days go by to shave my legs. I waxed what little hair I have on my chest just to start in that direction, but I am really afraid again of turning off a potential lover because of my look. I don't want to limit my chances anymore than they already are. I am a good looking guy and am improving in confidence and I think I would have even less confidece with a new woman if I was wearing panties, if I shaved, or more.

And then of course there is my desire to fall in love again. To find someone and have them embrace this seems like such a long shot. Again, do I really want to limit my chances? My counselor is willing to help me to either accept it all or to "cope." She is leaving it up to me. She doesn't say she can "cure" it or any such thing, only that I could learn to cope - that is, to bury it in my mind. To stop doing it.

I don't want that, but nor do I know if I am willing to have the rest of what comes with accepting my CDing. If I decide to learn to accept it, I fully intend to be honest with potential life mates. The transition from initial interest in a woman to telling her scares the manure out of me. Will I ever have the balls to do it?

There is still the fear that if I let it come out my ex will find out how much a part of my life it is. She expressed fears about this before and at one point had threatened that maybe she couldn't trust me with the kids. In no way can I see right now that it is worth the risk of future legal action over my children. I don't think she is still that prejudiced about the issue, but I can't say for sure.

Y'all can't answer these questions. They're just what are inside and I need to express them. Also, I just want to be back here fully and to do that I needed to let you all in. I certainly would love your feedback though because I feel very alone right now, despite my friends and all. There is one support group once a month in my town but it is always when I have my kids. So far I haven't been able to get to the group.

I want to add one other thing. A question as well I suppose. In my adolescent years, Cding became a sexually charged act. Every time I masturbated I tried to do it with my mother or sisters underwear. I still now get turned on at some level when I crossdress. This is a point of confusion for me. The turn on isn't the same as seeing a naked or erotically dressed woman, having her do sexual things to me, fantasizing over porn, or having an erotic conversation. Sometimes it is just the material of what I am wearing, or sometimes it is seeing myself looking so hot in the mirror, but sometimes I just feel free. I feel fully sexual. I don't feel turned on in the usual sense, just sexually charged. Like I feel every thing inside and outside of me. I become intimate with myself. Does this sound familiar to some of you? Does my sexual charge mean that this is all just a ruse? That it really has nothing to do with femininity? That it is just a sexual issue, not an identity one, and so I can change it?
This same question came up in the last email I sent before I went AWOL, but now the question is mine. Its no longer my ex-wife's.

Its as though I don't feel like a legitimate cross dresser. I tend to think that I can justify it if it is an identity thing, but if it is sexual then I should put it away and learn to forget about it. I know at some level that this isn't true. It's crap, but I can't seem to shake it. Any of you who can identify, I would love to hear your perspectives. Point me to other threads too if you can think of any.

I am so glad you all are here. I am thankful for this place. Sorry to have missed the last few months and I do look forward to sharing more with you.

Love,

Colette

I am glad you have a counselor to talk to. You also have us to talk to and we are good at helping people out. As you know from one of my other posts if it were not for this forum I would have gone completely nuts. It is because of the people here that I have come to terms with myself enough to write what I did in my blog.

Hi Colette, welcome back.

It still amazes me how someone can look on our being trans or our CDing, and think of it as a perversion, yet find no problem with their own acts of Adultery. I mean, for those of religious conviction, thou shalt not commit adultery is one of the ten commandments, crossdressing is not.

I may be mistaken, but I don't think your wife has the power to alter terms were set in the divorce with respect to your kids, should she come to find out your CDing is more that what she previously knew.

And then of course there is my desire to fall in love again. To find someone and have them embrace this seems like such a long shot. Again, do I really want to limit my chances?

So my suggestion is to be honest with whomever you develop a new relationship with. It doesn't have to be right off the bat, but soon thereafter. Why spend time (1, 2, 5 years) developing a relationship that may end if she can't accept your being trans (a CD)?

Not only would you be cheating her out of the opportunity to find someone she can accept all of, but you'd be cheating yourself of finding someone that can accept you for who you are.

My counselor is willing to help me to either accept it all or to "cope." She is leaving it up to me. She doesn't say she can "cure" it or any such thing, only that I could learn to cope - that is, to bury it in my mind. To stop doing it.

I think you've already tried to bury it and cope that way. Didn't work did it?

IMHO, I think you'd find yourself better off emotionally and physically if you learn to accept it, and work with it.

Sure, you might manage to bury it, again, but the question remains "For how long?" So, you bury it for 10 years, marry, things are going along swimmingly, then it resurfaces. What happens if you can no longer hide it and she can't accept it? You already know what could happen.

Acceptance, and being upfront with a potential life partner seems to be the best option, IMO.

Acceptance also reduces the fears of being outed by someone, like an ex. Fear gives someone else power over you.

Hi Colette,
"time heals all wounds!" sound familiar? I don't think any of us here want to try and second-guess your counselor, but Donna is right! You do have the ability of supress it - repress it - ignore it, but what if it reinvents itself after you have established a new relationship 6 months or 5 years from now? One of the things that we say is "once a crossdresser, always a crossdresser!" I may be misreading what you have told us, but I believe that you said you do dress in "full battle gear!", i.e., hair, make-up, clothes, heels, etc. and regardless of whether or not Colette is a sexual turn-on or not, you my dear are a crossdresser! It ain't gonna go away!
And you know most of us on the forum (GG's included) feel that telling a potential relation on the front end is almost a requirement. You may go through 50 ladies before you find one that is accepting. For my two cents worth, you have to ask yourself the BIG QUESTION:" What is Colette worth to you and how much are you willing to sacrifice for her?"
We are here for you - so don't be bashful and remember your sharing your experiences may just help one of your sisters here get through a similar situation and isn't that what we are here for - to help one another!?
Love,
Virginia

I am so glad to be back. I am feeling less alone again. Whew!

Donna, your point:

DonnaT wrote:
Sure, you might manage to bury it, again, but the question remains "For how long?" So, you bury it for 10 years, marry, things are going along swimmingly, then it resurfaces. What happens if you can no longer hide it and she can't accept it? You already know what could happen.

Acceptance, and being upfront with a potential life partner seems to be the best option, IMO.

I agree completely, I just am still fighting it internally. I am not trusting life and people at all to ever be what I want. It all seems like such a struggle. I know what I want and what is best. I want nothing less than total honesty with a mate, I just don't trust that she is out there. It will just take some time I guess; to learn to open my heart to the possibility.

You and Virginia are both very right, I believe, in saying that it isn't worth the risk of reawakening to CDing in the future after keeping it from a lover. Nor is it worth always wondering if I could be fully loved by this person. If they don't know all of me (as much as I know myself:) then how can I trust their love? I don't think I would. I have experienced that already. I never did fully believe M accepted and loved me, but instead of standing up for myself, I always believed she must be right and tried to turn myself into her image of me.

I am really wishing right now that I didn't live in the armpit of the south. This town is too small and too religious. I want to be in a city where you can find more people of like mind when you are a liberal personality. My kids are here so I don't anticipate leaving, but I struggle with this place all full of its religious rednecks and hordes of engineers (I mean no offense. I have friends in both categories. Just wish there was more culture here).
Hopefully I will continue to meet people online and subsequently be able to travel more to hang with new friends.

Just a little more info on me: Virginia, you made the point that it sounds like I dress in full array. I have done it all, piece by piece, but have yet to be made up fully. I have a really bad wig and I bought my first makeup today (some cheap stuff) to be able to spend more time on it. But, unfortunately I have no fem shoes. Ya, I know I am a crossdresser, but it still sounds like someone else saying it when I hear those words. I guess that would be the beginning of acceptance, eh?

There are a lot of fears buried under the surface besides the ones I mentioned. One by one they must go. I do want to be free.

Sounds like an awful lot to sort out.

Where I think the great value of this forum lies is in how it can help with self acceptance. We are who we are.

There is a lot of talk about feminimity here and sometimes I think that we use this as a more socially acceptable explanation of our feelings. (Socially acceptable here anyway) But I think that our feelings about sex, sexuality, gender, and identity are all hopelessly intertwinned. Sex after all is a very basic instinct gearing into our survival as a species. Yet we have put a million cultural controls on it, often for good reasons.

Consider all the conflicts and problems food and eating and related stuff cause for us. And this is an area with far fewer cultural taboos and sanctions. Any wonder that sex gets complicated?

The most erotic organ of the body is the mind. I sometimes get aroused looking at waterfalls for example. The Freudians and Jungians can have all sorts of fun with this what with water being a feminine symbol and the imagery of being swept away by powerful forces or submerged or what have you. All fine and good, perhaps true, somewhat interesting, and completely unimportant with regards to my self acceptance.

Absaroka

Absaroka thank you for input. Actually, your point about waterfalls brings my attention back to something I have neglected paying attention to. Not long ago I read most of the book Shadow Dance which is about Jungian psychology/spirituality. The book spoke to me deeply about many things and i am anxious to get my hands on it again. When I just let the ideas of anima and animus and the ideas of my positive and negative shadow penetrate my awareness, I do feel more self acceptance. This, at least for a time before I got divorced and all depressed, was my spirituality. I was very aware of the deeper truth of who I am, the me that is whole and complete. The me that transcends all the mundane BS that society puts on me and everyone else. I don't believe in "God." I do however find that I can relate to life as though I can communicate with my "true self." Just as I might with God if I believed in it anymore. I don't know if there is any true spirituality to it all, but it creates a framework for life that makes sense for me right now.

So, my "true self" has many things to say to me to build me up and help me to live life the way I want. It wants to push away all the layers of pretense and begin to shine for the world to see.

It doesn't look like you were trying to communicate what I got out of your message, but you have really helped me to come back to a precious space. I am not sure how long it will last for this moment, but I do at least know that there is something very valuable for me in this.

I hear your point as well though about sex, sexuality, gender and identity. I tend to put each of them in a tidy box so that I can attempt to understand myself. Well, I plan to go back to where I used to be, which was to stop trying to dissect all of these things and to really understand in an experiential, holistic way. For me, spirituality is a word that fits in that list and I aim to get back to honoring it. Thank you.

Colette

Colette,

I am so sorry about your divorce. A divorce even handled in the best possible way can be very dificult. Take the time to find out who you are and what you want. The time spent alone helps. I did this after my first marriage ended and it did me wonders.

I am reponding to your fear that a woman may not be able to accept you as you. IMO if a woman does not than is the relationship worth pursuing? I would not want someone to not love me completely. There are woman out there but I have found tht when one is seeking it they never find it. When you do meet that someone special though please take it slowly with her. Most woman can't handle it when the crossdresser goes overboard right off. I met my spouse en femme but he still took it slow with me. I have to sometimes remind him that Elayne has not been out in awhile which is my way of saying, " Go ahead and dress I am ok with it."

I look forward to more posts from you as you take this journey. Good luck sweetie.

Lisa

Hi Lisa,

THanks for responding. I am very with you in that if a woman can't accept all of me then the relationship isn't worth having. The real issue is my own acceptance. As long as I don't fully think it is okay, then its easy for me to overlook the other person not agreeing with it either. There were many times I believed that my wife did accept me even if she wasn't accepting of my CDing. I didn't believe it was fully okay either, so I accepted the fact that she didn't agree with it. Aargh

I went to my counselor yesterday. Like I mentioned, she had once asked me whether I wanted to cope with it (e.i. bury it) or accept it. I told her yesterday that I want to accept it. She looked to be so happy for me. I think her asking that question of me was intended to show me that the power and choice was mine. It worked. I also told her about the fact that I purchased my own makeup finally the other day and that I spent a bunch of time putting it on in the evening. I have a hideous (no exaggeration) wig, but I at least saw what I could look like with makeup and a feminine hairstyle. The makeup went well I thought and I was very happy with how I looked. I've never felt better about being a CD than I was at that moment. It was so nice to share this with someone and I can feel the difference inside of me - more peace, more value for all of me.

And, I met a young woman on URnotalone who has been sharing some email conversation with me. She is a beautiful woman and clearly has several CD friends. She says she has even fallen in love with one before. Ya, I am attracted to her, but I doubt whether it could go anywhere largely because of distance. But, it is so liberating to be in conversation with someone who I am this attracted to who also demonstrates value for this side of me. If she is there, it tells me there are bound to be more!

Despite my grief, I finally do see the value in getting the divorce. I would rather still be married, but only if we were both pulling for being true to ourselves and honoring each other in our differences. I finally see that it wasn't likely to happen. Of course, some days my compulsive thoughts say it "should have been different." Well, it wasn't. Now I want to create a different life for me. One that is better than I thought was possible.

Love and hugs

Colette

Hi everybody,

I just realized that tend to stay away when I feel stuck. I think that if I have anything to share it would be the same old stuff and I often feel like a broken record. Its often the same even with close friends. If I am continuing to hurt about a particular issue then I think people will get sick of hearing it from me. I am sure some of you have had the same thoughts. So, I am going to go ahead and share anyway.

My stuck state isn't really about CDing. Its mostly about loss, and the sense that I have been replaced. When I see that another man is in the role I planned on spending my life in, I can't help but feel replaceable. When I go to pick up or drop off my kids from their mom's house, his big manly truck is there in the parking lot almost every time (12 of 14 and counting). I start to see them in my head; holding hands, going out for dinner, cuddling... I can smell him and his smoker's breath. I remember him hugging me and the violated, controlled feeling I had sometimes and see her in my head hugging him and smelling him and feeling his hairy self and being what, turned on? It makes me sick because I still haven't emotionally let go of her. Somewhere in my head she is still my wife, my mate. But then, all of this stuff reminds me that he has the trappings of a traditional "manly" man. I work in social services, I prefer dramatic movies over football, I fix things but only because I can't afford to pay someone else, I am not very goal oriented, I drive an Accord... He fixes things for a living, drives a truck, has a bigger build, he's in school for business management... Take these examples and add the fact that I am cross dresser who, above all his other cd desires, wants to be body hair free, and I begin to lose my sense of self as a man. Especially in the eyes of women. Especially in the eyes of my ex. Her view wouldn't matter, I suppose, if by now I could have let go of my desire for her. But it is still there and in fact feels even stronger when I see her with someone else.

Like I said, I stay stuck in this vain of thought (okay, in all fairness to me, it isn't constant). I go around this cycle that contains thoughts of loss of her and the family life I wanted, my crossdressing, my identity as a man, their betrayal of me, my lies to her, her lies to me, loneliness, hopelessness over my future. I am depressed, bottom line. My counselor asks me about taking anti-depressants and I have so many reasons why I don't want to, but I wonder if I will pull through all of this without it. I mean, I know I will keep getting up everyday, but will I ever enjoy life more if I do it without drugs and how long can I wait to get there?

You know something? I say all of this; always sharing so many negative thoughts about me and how I cope. And yet, all of my friends seem to think that I am doing life very well. I mean, I tell them all of this stuff too, often over and over again. But they see the progress I make, my constant search to love and remove judgment, my desire to feel and experience life fully, my search for discover what I want for me, my willingness to finally tackle these huge identity issues (e.g. CDing) and other things. They tell me that they are proud of me. Some days, I am good to me. I speak kindly to myself. But proud of myself? Hardly. Everything is still overshadowed by these nagging thoughts that who I am is what led to the loss of my marriage and everything that came with it; and the nagging thoughts that somehow I am just plain deficient as a man.

I have lots of avenues to continue to address these issues in my life and I will, but I just wonder sometimes if this is what life is always going to be: a struggle. I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak.

Thanks for listening as always folks. Its good to have another outlet.

You're grieving a major loss and questioning yourself. Sounds normal to me given the situation. Share away.

These things take time and the scars of a broken marriage sometimes never compeltely heal. By time we are old we all have a few big scars on our heart.

The good news is that although you feel bad you are at least trying to take care of yourself. As opposed to giving up. Which would be easy to do, many do give up. Be proud of that and hang in there.

BTW lots of "manly" men are CDers. It's a form of over compensation. Why do you think we are over represented in the military?

Absaroka

I am depressed, bottom line. My counselor asks me about taking anti-depressants and I have so many reasons why I don't want to, but I wonder if I will pull through all of this without it.

May I suggest you give anti-depressants a good long try?

Really, because it's clear you want to be happy, and get passed some things, however, being depressed causes you to remain stuck and unable to get past those issue you don't like.

Colette
This forum has been very theraputic for me, and I dont think you will go wrong staying for a while.
I can identify strongly with your angst. Sometimes life seems like one trainwreck after another. No, IS a trainwreck from time to time.
We all seem to be learning from each other here even if our individual issues are not parallel. There are a lot of kind hearts here and that makes all the difference.
I can only speak for myself, but coming to terms with yourself is paramount. Ive been working on it steadily for about a year. It has been very slow, There is still far to go. There is a lot of repressed )(*^(* still in here. It does take time.
Dittos to Abrasoka , the scars are there. Just dont pick the scab so to speak.
Antidepressants can be useful, I was on them for about 10 years. Been off of them for about 7. Its been tempting to go back. Can say though it seems to take the docs an uncomfortable time period to figure out what works and how much. A good DR can help a lot with that.
Hang in there,

Sylvia

Colette,

I was reading your post about the new man in your ex-wife's life and how you feel when you think about them together.

What I wanted to tell you is that most of us do that after a divorce, trans or not. It goes with the territory. Perhaps the new girl in my ex's life is prettier, thinner - the new man in an ex-wife's life is richer, more macho, more whatever.... It's enough to drive a sane man or woman right over the edge. It *is* however, quite normal and the tendency to do this has nothing whatsoever to do with you being a CD. We all have deep insecurities, particularly following a divorce and we are all prone to thinking "(S)he wouldn't have left me if I was __________ (fill in the blank with thinner, prettier, smarter, wealthier, more religious, less religious, more political, less political, younger, older....)". It is very hard for human beings to accept that our significant other left simply because they didn't want to live with us anymore. For whatever reason. And it is very hard for us to accept that, for the most part, life is better without a person who no longer wants to live with us.

Sometimes you guys think that your perfectly normal human reactions are due solely to your transness. They aren't. Most of the reactions to divorce, rejection, acceptance, etc., etc. are all the same emotions that everyone else feels under similar circumstances. Quit beating up on yourself for liking women's clothes and thinking that this makes you so very much different than everyone else. It may be unusual, but it isn't all that strange. Moreover, 50% of marriages end in divorce. They can't all be because the guy wears panties. Divorces happen because somebody no longer wants to live with the other person.

Divorce sucks. Divorce that you didn't want sucks more. Divorce followed by your SO quickly hooking up with someone else is really the pits and it hurts like hell. And it is going to hurt like hell for a while, especially when the new person is diametrically different than you. I've been divorced from a guy I truly loved for 9 years now, and I still don't want to picture him with another woman. In fact, when he recently remarried for the second time since our divorce, I found myself feeling jealous. For a half-second, "He's Mine", went through my brain. Never mind that it's been 9 years, and I am now with someone else and don't want the xh back anymore. Who ever said emotion was logical?

As far as meeting someone new, it will happen. Someday when you least expect it. I know that seems impossible, but it will happen. Then, you can figure out when to tell her about CDing. It *is* true that many gg's are turned off by cross-dressing. There is nothing wrong with those people, just as there is nothing wrong with you because you are turned on by it. Getting it out in the open by around the 4th or 5th date seems reasonable, since that is one of the main purposes of dating - to see if two people are comfortable with one another. For my own personal choice, I would prefer to be told before the first time we had sex, but certainly not on the first date.

First, though, you *do* have to get comfortable with your self. I don't know how to do that - not because CDing is such a big, hairy deal (pardon the pun), but because I don't have a clue how any of us get comfortable with any of our selves. It is something that happens, but I'm not sure what the steps to that acceptance are. With any luck, your counselor will be able to guide you through that.

-g(so)

This is sort of rambling and for that I apologize. I'm sorry you are hurting.

You all are wonderful. Thank you.

Georgia, it certainly didn't sound like a ramble. Your point is very well taken and somewhere inside I know you are right that my reaction is normal. You really have spoken effectively to me. Thank you.