Different motives

[Gillian]

Hope, I like your vacation theory, sometimes the best vacation is one that costs nothing and you never leave the home. Everyone needs a vacation every now and then.


Jane D says,"Is there a genetic component that predisposes us to favor learning certain things, that guides our learning and causes an outcome? Don't know but I highly doubt it."

I find too many things in life show me that there is some genetic thing that does happen. By example, I never knew one of my Grandpa's but every one says how much I am like him. I found a picture of him and his mustache was exactly the same as mine, a big unwaxed handle bar mustache, when I used to have one. We look more like brothers than anything else. Many of our interests are the same according to other family members also. Then we could mention hand skills, talents and other abilities. All I have to do is also look at my own children to see that "the apple don't fall far from the tree".

I guess we are talking about the whole nature vs nurture thing again. I see a combination of both at work, sometimes one more than the other.

[Judith(SO)]

Anthony, you have such a nice way of putting things, I did make a note to respond to something you said, but things have been a bit hectic here, that's the best excuse I have right now, so I've been a bit long winded.

I was interested in what you said in regards to you being bored about being a man and the whole competitive edgy aggressive thing that men are supposed to be.
I've said this before, it's the differences between men and women which is the attraction, and one of my great attractions to men (read, my husband) is that aggressive aura which surrounds men. I'm not talking about aggression which accompanies violence, I'm referring to the way a man carries himself which shows self confidence, the ability to take charge, to lead from the front etc. one of the attractions for me in our courting days was the secure feeling he gave me, I always felt safe with him, his physical strength and presence always shone through. When you say that living up to expectations as a man seems to be a fight without an end, that's a bit concerning.

I'm not sure that life overall is any less daunting for women than it is for men, a woman's life is not always roses and chocolates, believe you me, maybe if you had the chance to experience life as a woman it may turn out to be less appealing than it seems at the present time, maybe the old saying of the grass is always greener etc etc would apply.
On average, women just deal with stress better than men, it's a documented fact world wide across all walks of life that the male rate of suicide is three to one compared to women, that tells it's own story in regards to stress. We get stressed too, and quite often, but we have ways in which we actively combat the effects of stress, on average, we don't bottle it up as many men do, and I believe the reason many men do is they see it as a weakness if they seek help, it distorts their belief and image of what men are supposed to be, and that's wrong, each man is who he is, not what others say he's supposed to be.

I'm not so sold on your idea that life is strange, we shape our lives by what we do or omit to do, and the only thing we get by looking back is a stiff neck. I've said to my husband that what's done is done, we have to find the way forward which is compatible to us both, but his main problem for now is aligned with what you said about the thing men are supposed to be, it's that looking back thing he has trouble with. He has to come to terms with the fact things can never be as they were before I found out, he cannot get over the embarrassment, and that's a male thing as a result of his image of the big strong man amongst men having been clouded by skirts and blouses, but we'll work at it and eventually he'll hopefully come to see that what he does is just fulfilling a part of his personality. I may never be comfortable with it, but then not everything in life is agreeable to us, is it, that's just how it is, but we make out just fine, don't we.

JudIth.

[Noeleena]

Hi,

Judith.

One of your attractions to men is thier agrressive aura that surounds men.... WOW.....

I have to step back from that, reason being because of violence in our family and i mean a hate, to the point of death by straggulasion,

And you felt safe around him. wow..... i could never do that,

I wonder, we are of Scottish background so wearing a Kilt is just part of our being no one would ever say a thing men or women from very young .

Remember my history goes back to 1300 and men wore dress's and skirts or Kilts and other garb,

as a woman i dont see an issue yet western fashon socity deems it different from long ago, why.

Our men in our Renaissance groups dont have an issue ether or women. join with one of our SCA groups world wide, and see those men in a dress, . and as an off side remark ,

I think and this takes me a lot to admit they do look pretty .... well .... lovely, some stand over 6 foot in height and you say strong. oh yea......., they are not enbarrised .
I know each one and work with quite a few with in our group yes they are lovely men
..........................................................................................
, Im ... to say. i really am this is not a put on to even admit to saying this is pretty hard,
.............................................................................................
To even think it or say this has taken me 55 years,

...noeleena...

[Anthony Simon]

Anthony, you have such a nice way of putting things...

I did make a note to respond to something you said, but things have been a bit hectic here, that's the best excuse I have right now, so I've been a bit long winded.

S'Alright.

I was interested in what you said in regards to you being bored about being a man and the whole competitive edgy aggressive thing that men are supposed to be.

It dates from when I was at school, when I was looking at the people in the debating society (like people would like you if you were either good at sport or debate). It just occurred to me that these people didn't care about what they were arguing about, they cared about winning. So then I thought "what's the point?".

I've said this before, it's the differences between men and women which is the attraction, and one of my great attractions to men (read, my husband) is that aggressive aura which surrounds men. I'm not talking about aggression which accompanies violence, I'm referring to the way a man carries himself which shows self confidence, the ability to take charge, to lead from the front etc. one of the attractions for me in our courting days was the secure feeling he gave me, I always felt safe with him, his physical strength and presence always shone through.

I guess I can understand this. Like it's about a guy "knowing what he's doing and being able to do it" and his whole body language says it.

When you say that living up to expectations as a man seems to be a fight without an end, that's a bit concerning.

It is a concern. It has to do with the thing about the guys in the debating society arguing just to win (It was an all-male school). I just feel that has proliferated out through the rest of society (I'm talking 40 years ago when I saw it).

I'm not sure that life overall is any less daunting for women than it is for men, a woman's life is not always roses and chocolates, believe you me, maybe if you had the chance to experience life as a woman it may turn out to be less appealing than it seems at the present time, maybe the old saying of the grass is always greener etc etc would apply.

Probably. The whole physical thing about being a woman (rather than the mental side) I'm not really properly equipped for, and that's apart from the sheer physical stress of elements of it.

On average, women just deal with stress better than men, it's a documented fact world wide across all walks of life that the male rate of suicide is three to one compared to women, that tells it's own story in regards to stress. We get stressed too, and quite often, but we have ways in which we actively combat the effects of stress, on average, we don't bottle it up as many men do, and I believe the reason many men do is they see it as a weakness if they seek help, it distorts their belief and image of what men are supposed to be, and that's wrong, each man is who he is, not what others say he's supposed to be.

I think you're absolutely right.

I'm not so sold on your idea that life is strange,

Maybe that was too glib.

we shape our lives by what we do or omit to do, and the only thing we get by looking back is a stiff neck. I've said to my husband that what's done is done, we have to find the way forward which is compatible to us both, but his main problem for now is aligned with what you said about the thing men are supposed to be, it's that looking back thing he has trouble with. He has to come to terms with the fact things can never be as they were before I found out, he cannot get over the embarrassment, and that's a male thing as a result of his image of the big strong man amongst men having been clouded by skirts and blouses, but we'll work at it and eventually he'll hopefully come to see that what he does is just fulfilling a part of his personality. I may never be comfortable with it, but then not everything in life is agreeable to us, is it, that's just how it is, but we make out just fine, don't we.

For me, the problem always is finding my way to the right solution. Like I'll keep offering up "easy ways out" to myself and there's a whole process of not buying any of them.

Meanwhile, under the surface somewhere, I'm taking on board what me dressing up really means - and that can take what seems like forever. It's about processing the pain as much as anything else.

It does tend to work out OK. But there's always that problem of taking the "easy solution" for me.

[Ralitsa]

I'm going out on thin ice here and probably will be accused of being unfair, so let me preface this with the disclaimer that: "this is the impression that I get and the feeling from most women I know. It maybe is not characteristic and I could be wrong."

And this feeling is that one of the favorite ways that women have of dealing with stress is to lay it all on their man. Whether the problem is financial, schedule, kids, work, whatever, a woman almost always turns to her man to fix the problem. The reason a woman feels protected and safe is because she knows there is someone to backstop her. Whatever bad decision is made, there is someone who will cover the bet.
There is a big difference in the level of stress involved when you know that the buck stops with you, and when you know that the buck stops one step away from you.

If you talked to my ex-wife she would tell you that she is under tremendous stress and I have none. BUT, no matter what sort of stupid irresponsible thing she does, the kids will ALWAYS be taken care of by me. I don't have the luxury of making mistakes, because there is nobody else.

[Eileen (SO)]

Ralitsa,

That last post is so sexist! And partially true. Car won't start or flat tire? Want a contractor or mechanic to talk honestly? Something repaired or put on a wall? Got to have a man around. Sadly, many men now days, lack the basic skills that past generations took for granted.
When guys can figure out how to shop for and plan a family meal every day, balance the checkbook, and buy clothes that match, then you can feel superior. I'll be sexist also by saying that there is reason it takes two genders to make a family work.

Eileen

[Judith(SO)]

Noeleena, I specifically said that the aggression I was referring to was not the kind which leads to or is associated with violence, I abhor anything remotely related to violence. I've been a RN for over 20 years and I've seen more than my fill of the results of violence, it sickens me. I suppose it's easy enough to get the wrong impression when that word is used, but I was trying to indicate some of the male related attributes which are an attraction to me, and why a man displaying an effeminate vision holds no attraction for me, so I'm referring to men who are self confident, comfortable in their own space, men with a bit of G&D who can defend themselves and those who rely on them, and so on.
Yes, I do feel and always have felt safe with him, because of his size and strength he can protect me and our girls from any physical danger. He is not a man who irresponsibly uses his size and strength, he is a very quiet man, one might say introverted, but he has no fear of stepping in when he sees anyone being brutalised.
Scottish background huh, my Grandparents originated from Perthshire, you may know of it. Thanks for your input.

Ralitsa, maybe you and I know different types of women. When I referred to women dealing with stress different to how men do, I mean, on average, when a woman becomes stressed, before it gets to crisis point we tend to seek out girl friends and have a good old heart to heart and pour out of the problem(s) including a good cry on a shoulder sometimes, and by letting the stress out, the problem can then appear not as threatening as it seemed, it's what I've called over the years, 'girl friend therapy', it works between females, believe me, it works wonders, whereas often men keep their problems bottled up to crisis point which can have catastrophic effects, because if things build to bursting point, control can easily be lost and bad things may result.
I certainly disagree with some of what you say. Yes, problems do arise in day to day life which require a man to fix, I'm first to admit life would be more difficult without one, I need my husband I hate to think of life without him, on the other hand, I'd like to see my husband deal with the day to day running of the home, as Eileen said, and fit his work in as well. Three teenage daughters do have their benefits around the house, but then they bring with them their own set of girl needs too, which their Father has trouble handling.
In my opinion, running a home is a partnership, and the bit about stress associated with knowing the buck stops with you, seems to have that air about a lack of a harmonious partnership about it, that type of thing doesn't happen with us, and I must say I haven't seen it amongst our group of friends.
To me, if the case was the woman laying all the blame on the man, suggests that there is probably something lacking in the relationship, maybe you have had a bad experience, of course I don't know.

I hope everyone has a happy enjoyable and safe Christmas and Santa does the right thing.

Hopefully 2014 will be everything we'd all like it to be.

Judith.