We have an agenda?

Tell us about the things you like to do, and what you do, when you go out en femme. All other topics will be moved to appropriate forum.

Moderators: KimberlyS, CathyAnn

Merinda
Miss Golden Goddess
Posts: 959
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:07 pm
Location: Melbourne Australia

Post by Merinda »

CJ wrote:Hi all,

My agenda (and my definition of family values): respect, tolerance for difference, compassion, helpfulness, empathy, moral support, integrity, unconditional love, civic-mindedness, honesty, faithfulness (to both people and ideals), and the promotion of a caring environment for children to flourish in, regardless of the actual constitution of that environment.

Love,
CJ
HI CJ ,

I totally agree with your above agenda , the world is not full of perfect people but there are a lot of narrow minded people who think that they are .
Over the years I have been refered to as (stated in my last post) , "obsessivly mentally ill" , having a few screws loose , sick individual , not the full 2bob , unnatural lifestyle, ETC ,ETC.
These people who use these terms should have a good look at themselves in the mirror before passing judgement on others.
My agenda is, I ask the " so called " normal community that we be accepted for who and what we are , I am not out to recruit or corrupt anyone.
Merinda
Loretta Ann
Permanently Banned
Posts: 2199
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by Loretta Ann »

Hi Merinda,
You stated that; My agenda is, I ask the " so called " normal community that we be accepted for who and what we are , I am not out to recruit or corrupt anyone.
I am confused Merinda. Please enlighten this fool? What would that give us...acceptance? Is it really necessary to put our fate in there hands? Does that then mean that only when society accepts us, then we can feel better about ourselves, and there by accept ourselves?

It is my opinion that is not to much unlike being in a prison for which we hold the key. !!arg!! As long as we continue to rely on society for that very basic human need? Are we not throwing away our chance of being comfortable with our selves, #-o
Last edited by Loretta Ann on Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Celia
Moderator and "Princess of Chat"
Posts: 1832
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:32 am
Location: Western Washington

Post by Celia »

Am I a genda benda? :wink:

-Celia .XX.
Only the young die young.
User avatar
Kathy
Miss Platinum Goddess
Posts: 433
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 2:38 pm
Contact:

Post by Kathy »

Celia... #-o
Darlene wrote:It is my opinion that is not to much unlike being in a prison for which we hold the key. !!arg!! As long as we continue to rely on society for that very basic human need? Are we not throwing away our chance of being comfortable with our selves, #-o
Merinda's comment was much like one of my initial posts, in another thread, on joining the forum. And Darlene's response is also very much the same. I have to admit that, since joining, my view is starting to bend more in Darlene's direction.

I am beginning to see that my problem is not so much other people's lack of acceptance of who I am, but that I let that bother me. Therefore, the only person preventing me from being whoever and whatever I want to be is...ME.

I, too, completely agree with CJ's agenda. That is very much what I strive for in my life.
Whatever you accomplish in life is a manifestation not so much of what you do, as of what you believe deeply within yourself that you deserve. - Les Brown
User avatar
CJ
Miss Diamond Goddess
Posts: 3562
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:12 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Post by CJ »

Hi all,

I think the matter of intolerance and lack of social acceptance Merinda's referring to has more to do with the possible consequences of being out in the open. Many sisters have suffered or died because of some morons' violent narrowmindedness. It's happened to me.

There's a mixture of ingredients, here. When society becomes more accepting of gender variance (through education and increased transgender visibility) and when we, as individuals, become more comfortable with who we are, things might flow more smoothly for everyone. Ideally, we can work on both these fronts simultaneously.

Love,
CJ
Image
Merinda
Miss Golden Goddess
Posts: 959
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 11:07 pm
Location: Melbourne Australia

Post by Merinda »

Hi girls ,

CJ hit the key word " EDUCATION " , this is the key to our freedom , it wont unlock every door but will create some open pathways that would normally be closed.
Merinda
Loretta Ann
Permanently Banned
Posts: 2199
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by Loretta Ann »

Hi CJ,

Many people have suffered or died because of some morons' violent narrow mindedness. And it has also happened to me. It does not just happen to cross-dressers. It has happened to every minority imaginable, and it has been that way since the beginning of time.

For those of you who believe educating the world is a worth while pursuit You can start with me. I am not about to give up my freedom that I now am enjoying to engage in such a task. In fact the very freedom I have found as a result of my decision to stop trying to change others.

The only person that I have the power to change is myself. And I thought that you were on the same page with that one CJ. Have I misinterpreted? Are you implying that we have the power to change the world?

How many of us are prepared to lose our lives due to increased trans gender visibility? Or would we prefer others to believe us and take that risk for us? I for one am not prepared to go there. Surely I am missing something here CJ perhaps you would care to enlighten this fool?
User avatar
Virginia
Goddess of the Universe
Posts: 5543
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:06 pm
Location: Strange Magic Hill

Post by Virginia »

Deborah jumps headlong into the fray!!!
Let's see I have educated myself on why I crossdress (does that count?); anyway, I have educated my wife, (although she does not want to physical meet Debborah) she accepts crossdressing as another facet of my character; my daughter who has also not expressed an interest one way or the other about meeting Deborah, has evidently accepted the fact that her father is a crossdresser and it ain't all bad. I have not stood up in church or anyother gathering and berated the other folks for not being educated about crossdressers. I have not actually been outted in public so the folks that I came into contact with were either "educated" or did not know the difference. Several years ago "we" crossdressers were taken to task for not actively supporting the rest of the Transgender Community, so we were and I guess in some circles still are treated as second-class citizens. What category do we find our selves, we exist, we do what we do, we do it for basically the same reasons, we are intelligent, we contribute to society. Why is it necessary to seek social acceptance?
One of the arguements for the "Women's Movement" was to make it easier for the not-so-pretty to get dates! Are we seeking acceptance so that some of our "closeted sisters" will feel more at ease if they finally choose to go out in public? Why are there more questions than answers?
I have to agree with my Sis, Darlene, I don't think its worth putting your life on the line for, but then how do we educate the "unwashed masses?"
Small steps, one convert at a time!
Love,
Deborah
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
Lizzy B
Miss Silver Goddess
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 9:06 am

Post by Lizzy B »

We are constantly surrounded by and "lectured" by "scolds" who are quick to tell us how to live our lives, while "secretly" (and all too often are found out) living lives that are just the opposite. Consider Newt Gingrich, Robert Livington, and that "estimable" bastion of tolerance, William Bennett. And of course how can we not mention J. Edgar Hoover, the erstwhile and "legendary" FBI director. While Messr. Hoover secretly investigated so many US citizens, (i.e. Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy), he could often be found in his own "en femme" attire! Of course, none of this was "discovered" until after his death, though it had been widely rumored but constantly swept under the rug.

My point (if there is one here) is that we are surrounded by hypocrites who are all too anxious to criticize and disparage us while all too often they do the opposite of what they preach.
Loretta Ann
Permanently Banned
Posts: 2199
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by Loretta Ann »

Thanks for your support Sis.

I have Christian friends who I have tried to get to see us in a different light. I have put questions to them that they have no answer for, and the best I get from them is we will have to agree to disagree on this one because you won't change my mind.

I will continue to do that every time they bring the subject up. which they willingly do on there own. Are we in there face? you bet we are, that is why they bring it up. but I have yet to see any converts.

I do this because they would be happier people if they were able to see it as it should be, not because it would have anything to do with my feeling better about who I am. But again I shall not be holding my breath on this one. Quit frankly my efforts have been rewarded here more than with these people. They fail to realize it, but they are the losers.
User avatar
Lorna
Miss Diamond Goddess
Posts: 2739
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:41 pm
Location: NY

Post by Lorna »

And who can forget Rush Limbaugh!
Live it. Love it. OWN IT.
Lizzy B
Miss Silver Goddess
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 9:06 am

Post by Lizzy B »

Thanks Lorna, yes Rush Limbaugh is Exhibit A. By the way, I saw an item over the weekend mentioning that good old Rush is getting divorced! Score another one for "family values"...every time I hear a politician or "scold" like Rush espouse about family values, not only do I want to cringe, it also challenges me to figure out just which so-called "value" the speaker will be violating next!
User avatar
Kathy
Miss Platinum Goddess
Posts: 433
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 2:38 pm
Contact:

Post by Kathy »

This issue really goes way beyond crossdressing and speaks to the root of the problems with society in general. And there is no one magical solution as the issues are more complex than my feeble mind can deal with.

Darlene makes a very valid point. The only way I am going to feel good about myself is to just accept who and what I am, forget about what society thinks about me and live my life my way.

But I can't and won't give up on the other side of the problem which CJ voiced so well in her post:
CJ wrote:There's a mixture of ingredients, here. When society becomes more accepting of gender variance (through education and increased transgender visibility) and when we, as individuals, become more comfortable with who we are, things might flow more smoothly for everyone. Ideally, we can work on both these fronts simultaneously.
I'm not saying that anyone should place their lives in jeopardy. Yes, a lot of people have died due to other people's narrow mindedness. A lot of people have died in car wreks due to other people's stupidity behind the wheel but we keep driving our cars do we not?

The educational process has been working for many years and will continue through the efforts of people like Stef's friend Lacey Leigh and others.

We all have to live our own lives as we see fit for ourselves and society will be what it will be.
Whatever you accomplish in life is a manifestation not so much of what you do, as of what you believe deeply within yourself that you deserve. - Les Brown
User avatar
CJ
Miss Diamond Goddess
Posts: 3562
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:12 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Post by CJ »

Hi all,

Darlene,

No, I think we're on the same page, here. Perhaps we're reading different paragraphs? :P

Seriously, I understand what you're saying. I have, for many years, adhered to a view expressed by Ramana Maharshi:

If the mind is happy, not only the body but the whole world will be happy. So one must find out how to become happy oneself. Wanting to reform the world without discovering one's true self is like trying to cover the whole world with leather to avoid the pain of walking on stones and thorns. It is much simpler to wear shoes.

Still, I find it difficult (not impossible, just difficult) to accept that, simply because intolerance has existed since the beginning of time, it should be allowed to do so until the end of time.

We're not talking about educating the world here, Darlene; if, by your example, you manage to help only one other person understand the value of tolerance, you will have accomplished an amazing thing, and a very worthwhile one. Last month, I told one of my female colleagues that I'm a crossdresser. She was shocked; I didn't seem like the kind of man who wanted to become a woman. She used to have a transsexual as a roommate many years ago and that roommate was her only experience with the world of the transgendered. So she and I talked long into the night; I explained to her the subtle and not so subtle differences between a TS and a CD, insofar as what I, myself, believe those differences to be. That night, education happened. No, it's not my moral duty to change others. It's my moral duty to change myself (hopefully for the better); if, in doing so, some light is shed in some dark corner of my surroundings, then all the better.

Darlene, nobody's asking that anyone give up their freedom. Still, I will ask, "in what, exactly, consists our freedom in a world in which we can never live completely apart from all other human beings?" You're a good case in point; your post has forced me to think and to clarify my own thoughts concerning this issue. In a way, education has happened here, also. And, for that, I can do nothing but thank you. 8)

My original post had more to do with the possibility of striking a balance whereby my self-development and growth can happen along with the self-development and growth of the society I choose to live in.

So, basically, for me, it boils down to this: yes, the most important thing is to tend our own garden. But, then, we must share its bounty with the world at large lest our fruits and vegetables perish.

I never meant to appear dogmatic, Darlene. I'm truly sorry if my post has offended you; it wasn't my intention. I'm hoping that dialogue is possible, still.

Love,
CJ

By the way, girl, as Socrates used to believe, only a wise person knows she is a fool. :wink:
Image
User avatar
Lorna
Miss Diamond Goddess
Posts: 2739
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:41 pm
Location: NY

Post by Lorna »

CJ wrote:Hi all,

My agenda (and my definition of family values): respect, tolerance for difference, compassion, helpfulness, empathy, moral support, integrity, unconditional love, civic-mindedness, honesty, faithfulness (to both people and ideals), and the promotion of a caring environment for children to flourish in, regardless of the actual constitution of that environment.

Love,
CJ
Beautifully said, CJ!! =D>

Respect and tolerance are two attributes that a lot of these so-called "traditionalists" seem to always leave out.

* Side note - I took my niece to go see Shrek 2 this past weekend. This was definitely a cute movie. I never laughed so hard! I highly recommend going to see it. Plus I honestly felt that all of the TG/CD references in the movie were completely harmless and played out in fun, and not in a degrading way for us nor in a questionable way for children.

Take your wives or SOs, take your kids, take whomever. Two thumbs up!! \:D/ \:D/
Live it. Love it. OWN IT.
Post Reply