Bigendered

TamaraSegunda · Post by **TamaraSegunda** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:14 pm

Well when I first say the term written, I read it as "big-endered" and immediately thought, "That's me!"
.......Tamara Segunda.

Kersten Lee · Post by **Kersten Lee** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:16 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the kind comments Darlene. It is interesting that we all have differing views as to a good descriptive title for us. No wonder it can be so confusing to those uninitiated members of society.

Violet, I want to say I have enjoyed lately your out there comments. You have a way of expressing things that make me consider anew old subjects that I once thought I had put to bed.

And I have to say that I still find great comfort and enjoyment in reading and knowing each and everyone of you!

Kersten

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:08 am

Labels. We (TG'd folks) talk about this all the time on and more than just this board. Transgendered is an umbrella term that covers crossdressers. In my experiences crossdressing is not used in the negative way that the word transvestite is used. I see people go out of their way to not use the word crossdresser because it doesn't carry the same negative connotations that transvestite does.

Bi-gendered seems to be another way of saying transgenderists. I feel I'm among those who acquiesce that we can't really stop the creation of new labels so add bi-gendered to the label fire.

One problem with the term transgenderist, pour moi, is it has the umbrella term transgender in it. Regardless it means the same thing as the term this thread was labled (bi-gendered). Someone who is not a crossdresser and someone who is not thinking of transitioning to live as a woman. In other words, me

and thousands, if not tens of thousands more.

I thank CJ for pointing me to that great word transgenderists as it finally gave me insight that I wasn't alone. It showed me there were so many more people out there like me, who didn't feel comfy being called a CD'r because we don't only crossdress and so some are uncomfy with us. Nor were we planning on SRS, which made TS's and post op TS women not comfy with us. It just helped me accept me even more and put to rest my idea that I had to have SRS because I surely wasn't only crossdressing for pleasure. I feel that I'm not a gender male because I plan on altering my body to have some femme qualities (laser hair removal, testosterone production stoppage, etc.) nor do I feel I am a gender woman because there are things about being a woman I do not relate with nor do I want (namely a vagina). So I'm going to stay with the term transgenderist until another scientific study is released that may call me something else.

http://crossdressers-haven.com/forums/v ... hp?p=26626

Great topic, btw Maggie and great responses by all you incredibly bright, wonderful and most ladies!

to you everyone.

Beauty

Violet · Post by **Violet** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:42 pm

Violet, I want to say I have enjoyed lately your out there comments. You have a way of expressing things that make me consider anew old subjects that I once thought I had put to bed.

Whay thanx you, hon!

I seem to have a talent for that... although many would not put it so, er, politely....

Maggie · Post by **Maggie** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:19 pm

Thanks, girls, for a great discussion. After considering everything, I think for the time being I will "define" myself with the following "labels," depending on the situation:

I will continue to let people in general think of me as a "female impersonator," who performs as Maggie in theatrical presentations. After all, I am an actor. Why rock the boat unless it's absolutely necessary?

However, to myself, to others in the TG community, and to people I encounter in my female persona, I will define myself as "transgendered." At present, that seems to be the most benign and "politically correct" term, and one that offers at least some possibility of evoking sympathy and tolerance if I am ever in a pinch.

I suspect that most people are not familiar with "transgendered" as an broad, umbrella term, and that they will probably assume that it means that I am a woman trapped in a man's body. I will not try to disabuse them of that notion, since it is better than the things they might otherwise be thinking. Furthermore, it might actually be true to some degree.

Cathy L. Anderson · Post by **Cathy L. Anderson** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:31 am

It might be much better generally if people did not think of Male--Female as a single dimension. Several psychologists, especially Sandra Bem, have argued that Maleness and Femaleness are separate dimensions.

Usually men are high on Maleness and low on Femaleness, whereas women are typically high on Femaleness and low on Maleness. But it is quite possible for a person of either sex to be high on both Maleness and Femaleness. In fact, that is seen as desirable (and certainly much better than the opposite of being low on both dimensions).

As simple as the two-dimensional paradigm is, it makes a lot of problems go away--including those related to 'non-standard' gender. It's too bad this model is not well known.

I have used the term "bi-gendered" before to describe myself. I also like the Native American term "two-spirit person."

Cathy

Merinda · Post by **Merinda** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:43 am

GENDER ILLUSIONIST

This is a recent found discription of a female impersonator

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:49 am

Hi girls,

I have been unable to find a lable that exactly fits me. Some are very close, but I have heard nothing that really describes me. Transgendered, I had assumed, was a generic term that included crossdressers, transgenderists, non transistioning transsexuals, preoperative transsexuals, and transsexuals.

For me it is this feeling that I am not a boy, at least not in my brain. I love not only dressing as a girl, but girl things. I have entered practically everything I have ever written into the "gender genie" which always predicts I am a girl, even emails. But I also accept that I was born into a male body. I don't feel comfortable in a wig. I have never tried breast forms, but wearing a stuffed bra does not feel right for me. I am not sure why, but I just want to be me, in girls clothes and makeup. If my life were different, I would probably transition, but I don't feel an overwhelming dislike of my male body. Concealing it, works for me.

So I don't identify with transsexuals who truely dislike their male bodies, but I also do not have any male qualities that I like, so I never feel like presenting as a boy, which means I also don't fit the description of transgenderist either.

I do hate wearing boy clothing, and hopefully will never have to again, so I don't meet the criteria of being just someone who likes dressing as a woman, meaning I don't fit the description of crossdresser either.

If I could magically become a real woman, that would be perfect. However, I am not willing to try to become, because I guess in the end, I am afraid it would be dissappointing. I would still know I was not a real woman.

So? Without a lable that seems to fit me, and having felt this way all my life. I have pretty much accepted that I don't need a lable. I am just me. And besides, I am never going to talk to 99% of the people I come in contact with, who are going to attach thier own lable to me anyway, and I just don't want the responsibility of trying to teach all them the correct lable, which I don't have anyway.

Since I have come to beleive that transgendered is a blanket term for all of us, it is the phrase I use most often. But I am also quite proud to be called a crossdresser.

Love always,
Elizabeth

RikkiOfLA · Post by **RikkiOfLA** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:43 am

Early in my transgendered career, I wondered what to call myself. Was I a crossdresser or a transsexual or ...?

A wise friend replied that names find us. We don't have to go looking for them. What she meant was that I should focus on finding out what I like and dislike, what I want and need. I heeded her advice. As a result, I don't have one term that fits me like a glove, but several that I like. Here are terms that I like:

CROSSDRESSER. Since I am male, and wear women's clothes 24/7, I think it fits. I'm confused by the notion of "only crossdress" because I know crossdressers who take hormones, some who are full time, some who are completely passable, some who never go out dressed, and so on. I'm certainly in there somewhere.

TRANSGENDERIST. I think the distinctive here is gender dysphoria. I do feel a certain amount of discomfort with maleness, either in myself or others. Note that I said "a certain amount." Not enough to make me hate my gonads. But certainly enough to make me more comfortable presenting female. It's cool for women to have a male side--stereotypically male interests and abilities--so it should be for transgendered people too. But my core identity is female rather than male. So I think transgenderist fits me too.

TRANSGENDERED. To me this is an umbrella term. It's broad. I like terms like that. I'd rather fit into a large, diverse community that can flex its political muscle when needed, than a exclusionary special interest clique.

SHEMALE. Oh, I know it's raunchy. It was defined by the porn industry, not sociologists. But I like it because it's got balls-and-boobs sexual power. It's not ashamed. Most of all, I like it because when I see myself naked in the mirror, that's what I am. And after hating myself for so many years, it's great to finally admire my own body. That feels good!

So there you have my current choices. Any new terms floating around for me to try on?

Anita · Post by **Anita** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:57 am

I wanted to keep my other post short, but "T-girl" is still a term of choice for me. It fits my role as a performer better than other terms; I'm not a drag queen, and I've not cared for two-syllable names for something that should be simple.

A T-girl, in my mind, is a crossdresser who does go out in public, and tends to go to clubs, transgender cotillions, and the like. It sometimes gets used for transitioning gals, too, but they tend to feel it's too lightweight for them . I like it, though. It's not so serious, and neither is my girl self.

Alexandra · Post by **Alexandra** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:09 pm

anita, I like the term T-girl too, but once upon a time somebody got offended when that term was directed at her (him?). I'm wondering . . . do other people find it offensive? I don't.

Anita · Post by **Anita** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:10 am

Well, if anyone is offended, I hope they let us know. Several of the websites that I started out with used the term, and it had a kind of party-girl attitude associated with it. It's maybe a little more "racy" than other terms, but it's not a put-down or a sexual slur, as far as I know.

Jennifer M · Post by **Jennifer M** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:49 pm

I like the term Bi gendered for myself.I heard it about three years ago and it seems to fit me.I can spend the day as my male self wrenching on one of my vehicles then come in and let my femme self be.This works for me.As stated by others we are all gender gifted and there is as many reasons and names for this as there are gender gifted people.Bi means two,I experience life thru both genders.I am not sure if that then makes me the third gender????Either way I am learning to accept this as the gift it is and enjoy the diversity.

Virginia · Post by **Virginia** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:39 pm

Amen, Jennifer!! amen, honey!
Virginia

Tekla · Post by **Tekla** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:14 pm

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

Tragically, (or not) we are not Humpty Dumpty. And we live in the real world and not in Alice's Wonderland. Words have meanings. Your personal liking or disliking the meanings does not matter much, unless you work for Webster's or The Oxford Dictionary of the English Language.

What you think they mean, or what you want them to mean is really nothing. As part of the tool box of communication, they only exist in the interchange of ideas between two or more people. Its what we all, not what any one of us, thinks they mean.

Bi still implies (in fact is defined by) TWO. Now, sadly, two is as much as most people can handle: this or that, right or wrong, black or white, good or bad, male or female.

However, it is much more likely that gender exists in a matrix and not a binary system. Even 'sex' which is binary is, in fact, three (Male, Female, Neuter).

So gender would have a male/male, fem/male, neutral male, fem/female, male/female, neutral/female, and perhaps a pure neutral. That's what? Seven, six at least.
Macho/Male = Chuck Norris, Dog the Bounty Hunter, Conan the Barbarian
fem/male = Robert Plant, RuPaul, Bob Ross
Neutral male = Casper Milquetoast, Fred Rogers
fem/female = Pam Anderson, Cindy Crawford, Paris Hilton
macho/female = dykes on bikes, Hillary Clinton, Dog the Bounty Hunter's wife
neutral female = Miss Hathaway on Beverly Hillbillies

Those categories do not imply sexuality at all. Robert Plant might be a very fem male, but if even half the stories are true he had nights that most people will not equal in a lifetime.

Gender is a kind of imitation for which there is no original." It is something performed, artificial, a "phantasmic kind of ideal of heterosexual identity. All gendering, consequently, is drag, "a kind of impersonation and approximation."
(Judith Butler, quoted in Forever Barbie, The Unauthorized Biography of a Real Doll, by M.G. Lord, p13)

Though I don't think that either term is really totally appropriate, or even fair - I simply think of it as dressing up - I prefer crossdresser to transvestite, if a choice has to be made.

Transvestite, first off, is a big, old, pompous Latin-type word when crossdresser, the Anglo-Saxon description, is much more to the point. When any sort of alternative is offered, the modus operandi should always favor the Anglo-Saxon word, ceteris paribus. Good writing, Strunk & White assures us, eschews the Latin, knowing; Vox populi, vox Dei.

Besides, crossdresser seems to center more on the fashion aspect, opposed to transvestite, which arises from the psychiatric community and basically defines a pathology of mental illness revolving around specific sexual issues. Transvestites are routinely presumed to be gay men dressing as women for the point of luring other men to have sex with them, or else straight men with a sexual fixation to the point of fetish - neither of which seems to fit me very well. Crossdresser then seems more appropriate to describe males who are a bit more ambidextrous about their fashion sensibilities, though I still insist all I am doing is dressing up with a unique sense of style and fashion for a guy.

Either way, transvestite or crossdresser were both earlier terms. Now, as a trendy cultural area all this stuff has found an entire range of academic and therapeutic language has grown up around it. TG, TS (pre-op, post-op and non-op), gender dysfunction? If I had to pick an over all term I believe GV ( I prefer the term Gender Variance as adopted by the 4 th Annual Gender Congress to the term Transgender, but that is a separate discussion) would be the best choice, if only because it covers the widest range.

The term I have come to prefer is that of Tgirrl. In part a giving into the accepted terminology of Trans, even if I don't like it, and the use of the girrrl spelling adapted from the 90s rock and roll RiotGirrl movement. For reasons I will get into later I think that most MtF's like the girl image more than the woman image. Some way too much even. I like those girrls, like L7 and Bikini Kill, because they were tough and not just frilly. But they managed to be all girl no matter how tough they looked, and that seemed to me to be a good role model of what a good modern girl is all about. Girrl is obviously what it seems to be, but also it is a definite way of also saying different girl, Tgirrl.

Given all that, I don't care. I kind of like Tranny. She-male does not bother me, and I know people who identify as such without working in porn. TG & GV are umbrella terms for all of us, no matter how many people don't like it. TS, CD, TV, whatever, its all a variant, a crossing of norms and standards.