The Un-Official "Do you know how I feel?" Thread

[Anita]

This is such a good thread, and I although I've "talked" to Elizabeth (via email), I haven't had time to give the replies the kudos they deserve. Just wanted to let you all know I appreciate your writing and feelings on this one!

[Raven(SO)]

Hey Elizabeth
that is such a great thread.
you know sometimes I feel like people are just saying to me what I want to here, when i say " yeah my husband is a CDer/Transexual there is always the look and then the pause and then the"well as long as u are happy". and the generic ok with it type thing. I dont care what other people think of me or my life choices, I am talking about my brothers & family here to a certain extent. Its really hard for them to get that I want to be with Elizabeth for the rest of my life.
Its just aggravating that thay cant see the sweet person I see, I dont understand why some people only can deal with me if I do what thay say, or live how thay wish. I was at a point where i was going to cut my oldest brother out of my life because he wanted me to take pics of his child off of my website because his mother in law is a religious type and wouldent allow it. I told him if he didnt accept my husband that me and him would likely loose contact with each other.
within one week of my email to him I got a phone call, he told me how he told his GF that I am his sister and he is going to respect my desicions and I can put his kids pics on my page, and i thought it was a sweet phone call but i still will not put his kids pics on my website. I know this probably sounds childish, but one phone call just didnt seem to take the hurt that he made me feel away. i guess in time it will all seem silly, and i hope in time i can forgive him.

love Raven(SO)

[Elizabeth]

Hi girls,

Sorry I have not been a better steward of this thread, but I have been busy with school.

I read about people here getting ready to go out, perfecting their makeup, doing their nails, shaving body hair and taking hours to get their look to be just right and think that if it is going to be this much work I really don't want to bother. And I suppose it would mean sitting right, not sprawled out or with my legs wide open.

I understand that just like GG's there are those who really primp, those who spend a moderate amount of time primping, those who spend very little time primping and those who spend practically no time primping. I can shower, take care of personal hygene, get dressed, put my makeup on, and fix my hair in about an hour and 15 mins. Not bad at all, imho.

I can do a quick makeup and hair job to just run to the store or something in about 20 mins. Again, that is fairly comparable to your average GG, I think. One of you GG's might jump in here and talk about how long things take you.

I mean, I get your point totally, but the deal is this. I really have a male body and if I do nothing to make it look female, then it does not. I have to provide signals that I am not male, so I won't be treated male. I beleive it is this, the not being treated as a male, that causes me to feel so great when dressed. It definitely changes how others treat me, but there are people like me that know that it changes how we feel about ourselves.

In our dressing we all must decide how it is we want to feel, and adjust our dressing accordingly.

Most of the time I feel this way. I don't wear "womens" clothes all that much, even my avatar pics or any pics of me have shown me not wearing women's clothes, except maybe for the bra. My feeling is that I want my face to look like a girl, I can wear and feel happy in any clothes just as long as my face looks like a girl. Maybe to some extent my body might have some women features, such as breasts. But as far as clothes go, I rarely wear dresses or skirts, I never wear women's panties, girdles, garters, high heel shoes. Corsets I do wear because they are part of goth fashion and I sometimes wear corsets as an outer germent. But for the most part, I am a girl who likes to wear jeans and tops and sneakers.

Being this way has me constantly questioning myself,,, Why am I on a forum for CDs?

Amelie,

I do not beleive there is some formula for dressing that is "right". I think like you, we all have to decide for ourselves what crossdressing means to us. I beleive when we are talking about "crossdressing" what we are really talking about is "transgenderedness", and this is appicable to anyone desiring to present themselves as something other than thier genetic birth sex. It is not really about the clothes for many people like yourself and Absaroka. It is about the expression of that part of your personality that is feminine.

I am curious though, and I now we all have our own needs and this is not a judgement, but could you expand on your need to present your face as female, but it is not important to wear female attire. And I am not certain if I understood you correctly, do you wear a bra and breastforms? And regardless of how you answer, how does that fit into your needs to present yourself as female? I am very interested to know how you feel about these things, if you don't mind talking about it.

Hi all,

Would someone who has a gifted voice and loves to sing be contented with the knowledge that they can sing and sing well, while being prevented from ever singing again?

Donna,

I totally agree. But here's the thorn: one person's golden voice is another's blackboard screech. People will tell you, "sing if you must, but do it far enough away from me that I won't have to hear it."

Aye, and there's the rub!

Hi CJ and Donna,

I too feel a great sense of contentment from dressing. It really gives me a sense of well being. However, it also gives me this feeling of walking on a cloud. It is really a happiness that just transcends my body. I just can't wipe the smile off my face. I never tire of it and it never gets mundane. I truly hope this feeling never goes away, and it never becomes ordinary.

Anita,

Thanks for the email, a response is in the works, I have just been really busy with school. I am glad you like the thread. Like you, I am never dissappointed in the dialog that comes out our sisters on this forum. I was expecting my sisters to present many different view points, but this really has been a sensational thread so far.

Raven,

Babe, I am so sorry that happens to you. I know it is not much of a concelation, but I would imagine there are many here who have had similar experiences. There are many that fein acceptance, yet continue to have a condescending attitude towards us. I am however glad you were able to stand your ground. There is nothing more difficult that facing the dissapproving eyes of the ones that we love and are supposed to love us, unconditionally.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[DonnaT]

i hope in time i can forgive him.

You're a good person at heart Raven, so I think you'll be able to forgive him. At least he stood up for himself, and you, to his GF. My brother couldn't do that and became estranged from the family, until his wife left him, and the trip back into the family has been difficult.

[Amelie-Laveau]

No, Liz, I don’t mind talking about myself, I might sound confusing but here goes.

If one goes out and about and sees a girl walking down the street with a t-shirt and jeans, well this is how I look when I go out. Yes, I sort of wear breast forms. I wear forms that I made myself that pushes my own breasts upwards to create my look, I sort of have breasts of my own.

I feel that the girl in the t-shirt and jeans looks like a girl because her face and hair are so much different from a mans, As far as the shape of the girl, I don’t think this matters, girls come in all different shapes and sizes, but to me, it is the face that says female or male when I see someone face to face. Yes, I know there are people who can look androgynous, both female and male, but these people are kinda rare to see around, and I don’t know too many like this. I know what I am saying is sort of labeling what a man and woman should look like but this is how we as people see things. I mean it would be nice if we could all see each other as just people, but we don’t, we look at people as male or female. Actually if we didn’t look at each other as male or female, there probably wouldn’t be a need to crossdress, we would all just be people.

Once again, if you ever see women who wear plaid shirts and rough jeans, we don’t mistake them for men. I feel that their face and sometimes their mannerisms give a tell, that they are women. This is the way I try to be, I want to wear rough punk clothes, plaid shirts, jeans but I also want people to see a woman, which I try to do with my face and actions(I don’t know a better word than actions, what I mean is the “acting like a girl” I don’t even know if this is correct, so sorry if this wording is wrong.) I do show the world that I have breasts, I do think that this is a factor in making myself look like a girl, but usually these breasts are behind a t-shirt, like the average girl seen out and about.

Ok, some goth girls go way out with their look, but I am more of a punk and some of these punk girls just wear a band t-shirt and jeans, it is these girls that I look like and no one mistakes these girls for men and I don’t want to be mistaken for a man either so I think it is the face, the hair and the breasts that make me a woman not the clothes. I guess one could say, it is the natural things that most girls have, face, hair, breasts, for me, I have to put on make-up to get the same face effect as girls do, a wig to get the same hair effect as girls do,
Breastforms(or at least something to push my own breasts upwards) for the breasts that girls have. Clothes are not important real girls wear any kind of clothes and so can I.

I hope that was clear.

[Absaroka]

Amelie that made perfect sense. I really liked how you explained your idea and I think it is prettty true that the face is perhaps the most important visual cue. After all the eyes are the window of the soul.........

Elizabeth your post also made perfect sense. The part about how it makes you feel different to be treated as a woman explained so much.

THis is a great thread. I guess the initial question is what do we feel others don't understand about who we really are or something. a wonderful subject.

Absaroka

[Raven(SO)]

Thnak You Elizabeth

DonnaT: Im sorry that your brother has hurt you also.

Raven

[Absaroka]

Elizabeth I am thinking more about what you wrote which is something that I think gets right to the heart of something very important. You said that it is being treated as a woman that makes you feel so good about crossdressing.

What is it about being treated like a woman that makes you feel so good? How are you treated differently? In what way does it make you feel good?

Anita has posted a lot about this, how she is able to relate differently to people as a woman than as a man.

Absaroka

[Elizabeth]

Hi girls,

I feel that the girl in the t-shirt and jeans looks like a girl because her face and hair are so much different from a mans

This is not always the case. Particulary for people like me that grew up in the 70's and was in my 20's in the 80's. Many men, myself included, wore our hair long exactly like a girl. And if that were not enough the 80's brought unisex jeans and other clothes. There have been many times I have either mistaken a man for a woman, expecially from behind.



These are images of me from the early 80's and this look was not an uncommon look of that time. This caused people to have additional scutiny of gender back then, before making a call. I beleive that growing up in this time of addtional scrutiny causes people like me to beleieve that others do the same. This causes the need to make sure I am not mistaken for a man as I might be if I were just dressed in jeans and a t-shirt.

I think growing up in this era of uncertain gender cues, makes people like me have a strong need to really identitfy our gender. While you may look like a girl as long as someone can see your face, what about when you are walking away from them or toweards them from a distance? I am pretty good at spotting the difference between a male siloette and a female siloette. The difference in the hips, torso proportion, the walk and the swagger can all scream "He's really a Man!!!!", even though up close one may look more female.

Also, there are a great many CD's that no matter how much makeup they put on, they still look like a man. You obviously feel that once made up, you look pretty female, but what if you did not? What if, even with your makeup on, you still looked like a man? That would mean that if you also wear men's clothing, you would be giving off no clues that you feel like you are female and it is unlikely anyone would mistake you.

So? the way I see it, count yourself lucky, you have a very feminine face. For many of us, this is not so and if we could look female without wearing dresses and skirts, I think we would.

Elizabeth I am thinking more about what you wrote which is something that I think gets right to the heart of something very important. You said that it is being treated as a woman that makes you feel so good about crossdressing.

I mean, I get your point totally, but the deal is this. I really have a male body and if I do nothing to make it look female, then it does not. I have to provide signals that I am not male, so I won't be treated male. I beleive it is this, the not being treated as a male, that causes me to feel so great when dressed. It definitely changes how others treat me, but there are people like me that know that it changes how we feel about ourselves.

Absaroka,

I don't want to play on symantics here, but I never really said I was or wanted to be treated like a woman. What I said was that I didn't want to be treated like a male and when crossdressed I am not. However, that does not mean I am treated like a woman. I beleive I am treated like a person who beleives they are a woman, and that is good enough, at least for now. It seems to me that anyone at close range is well aware I am not a GG, however, they are also aware I am not a male.

The relief of not being treated male is part ot the uphoria that I feel when dressed, but that is a long way from being treated as if I were truly female. I hope that gets to the heart of what you mean.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Elizabeth, another analogy you might use is to ask if she's watched "What Not to Wear" or any of the other make-over shows where the formerly slumpy make-over victim ends up feeling pretty and witty and bright. (In fact, I've heard a number of them comment how they didn't think something as "trivial" as clothes could change their feelings about themselves as much as it did.)

[Elizabeth]

HI girls,

Marlena,

That is a good analogy. I have seen that show, and seen just what you are talking about. I have seen a woman that dressed all frumpy and did not care, and that became her reality. However, one made over, and taught what kind of clothes suited her, there was an incredible change, not only in her looks, but how she carried herself and how she felt about herself. I most certainly could relate.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Curly(SO)]

Hi!

I still can not tell you why I must dress, I just must. Do you know how I feel?

I know some of you don't believe it but my answer, Elizabeth, is yes!

I know as much as you allow me to know...which I feel is a huge amount as so many of you have shared your stories and your innermost thoughts and feelings.

When Ed first told me about his CDing, I immersed myself in research, here and across the Net. So I do feel pretty well informed. But more importantly, I have been coming on this forum for two and half years now...If I don't know how you feel by now, I never will!

Ed has also been incredibly open about how he feels. (He does like to talk though you wouldn't know it here!) I think, maybe in the early days he found it harder to talk, but now he is happy to chat about how he feels and we have many a long ramble about CDing and how we both feel!

For those us GGs that really want to know how you feel, please know that we really put the hours in! We can and we do get our heads round it... and our hearts!

Love,
Curly

[Elizabeth]

Hi Curly,

Quote:
I still can not tell you why I must dress, I just must. Do you know how I feel?


I know some of you don't believe it but my answer, Elizabeth, is yes!

I do beleive it, and I am certain there are other SO's that do also. There are many of us that don't understand the reason why we must do this, but have accepted the reality, that for whatever the reason is, we must do this. It was so hard for me to get to the point of really truly accepting that I must do this.

I always kidded myself and tried as hard as I could to convince myself that I really could just not dress if I felt like. When I would break down and dress again, I would tell myself that it was no big deal, it would be a one time thing. I could just buy me some panties, wear them for a while, then throw them away.

Of course that would never happen. First, there was an incredible exhileration just buying whatever it was I was going to wear. There was the planning of the entire thing. When I could buy them, how i would smuggle them in so I could change into them. Where and when I would wear them, and lastly, how I would get rid of them.

Once the plan is finally in place in my mind, I could not wait to carry it out. And after all this thinking about crossdresing, all the exhileration of buying it, putting it on,. and finally just wearing it. And every time the feeling would be just amazing and I would start thinking about how awesome it would be to be a girl so I could wear women's clothes all the time.

And as I would be nearing the time I would have to undress and dispose of the clothing, a new plan would emerge. A plan to hide the clothes and find another time to wear them. And at the end of wearing them the next time, a new plan again, and before I knew it, I was dressing all the time again. A new cycle had emerged and it would last until I would get caught, have a huge fight, purge, abstain for a while, and eventually form a new plan.

After years and years of this, I finally realized that whatever this need was, it was not going away. I was not going to outgrow it. And in fact the opposite happened. As i got older I realized that this whole cycle of purging and secrecy was really bad not only for me, but for my exwife and inherently our marriage.

About a year and a half into our marriage and three years of cohaibtating, she found out I was dressing up all the way in secrecy. She basically said I was a disgusting pervert and my crossdressing sickened her, and basically I was never to do it again, as a condition of remaining married to her. We already had kids together and with little information available to me, and no internet yet, I felt I had no choice. She could have divorced me, won everything, and I would have been declared an unfit parent.

But after years of the cycles of purging we reached an agreement of sorts. I had bought her some panties that turned out to be to big. She said "I guess we can keep them" and gave me "the look". After this, I was allowed to wear them, buy more, and she would wash them and return them to my drawer. This ended the secrecy, the hiding and the purging.

This deal lasted for almost 10 years, until I became disabled. My exwife got involved with another man, stopped having sex with me, then demande4 that I stop wearing girls underwear. She basically stayed until she found someone else, then she forced the issue to hasten the divorce process.

That is when I came here and met all of you.

[Absaroka]

Hi Elizabeth,

i guess I did misunderstand. But I am sitll interested. What is it that consittutes not being treated like a man? Or being treated like someone who believes that they are a woman.

I hope you didn't think I was trying to start a debate or anything. Your experience it your own and how can anyone disagree with it? This is something that I do not understand, however it also something that I wish I did understand, and I figure the only way to learn is to ask.

Absaroka

[Elizabeth]

Absaroka,

But I am sitll interested. What is it that consittutes not being treated like a man? Or being treated like someone who believes that they are a woman.

Society has certain expectations of men. We hold doors for women, we check for danger when there is unexpected situations, we change the flat tire. We defend the honor of our SO, with force if necessary. We talk as if we were superior to women, except in thier pressence. We are the caretakers or the family unit.

We are not weak, frail, frightened or unsure of ourselves. We are never lost, even when we are, and gawd forbid we should ask for directions when in an unfamiliar setting. We nod at each other as we pass that have a whole host of meanings depending on the situation.

This expectation lf maleness is everywhere. But when I am en-femme, men hold doors for me. I no longer get "the nod" when passing. Women talk to me in a way they never did before. With thier guard down. Not trying to impress me, as a man, but to relate to me as a human being. Women touch me a lot more now.

It is really striking just how differently I am treated now. I can not say I am treated as a woman, because I do not beleive that is entirely true. In my local community, the places I frequent, I am known and everyone converses with me. I am "thier crossdresser".

I beleive a lot of how I get treated has to do with the advanced stage of Political Correctness in society, here in California. Having recently passed a law protecting gays and transgendered people from harrassment or threats, after a crossdresser was beat to death near San Francisco, there is a sensitivity for everyone to show that they have no prejudice. regardless of if they do or not.

In any event, it releives me of the responsibility to act like a man. To give the nod, to go out without an umbrella, to change the tire, to be the brave one. I can not speak for my sisters here, but I can say that I am most definitely treated differently when dressed, and I perfer it to how I am treated as a man.

Love always,
Elizabeth