CDing is a sexual pleasure

[Ridge]

Melissa

Thanks for your support in your postings. I thought for a while I was the only one who felt this way.

Opinions are the beliefs of the holder and are neither right nor wrong. They can however vary from person to person.

Pardon me if my legal training comes in by asking someone to make a rational argument for their position. I am always open to changing my opinion if I believe your opinion makes sense. But merely dismissing an argument with no basis stated other than it is wrong will never pursuade me or many others.

Ridge

[Marilyn]

I should have read all the other posts before responding to this one!

Hugs.

[Melissa]

Well, the only concern I have is that my desire to wear the clothes of the opposite sex doesn't take over, I mean where will it lead me in 5 years from now? I have already experienced an increase in confidence in this area such as going shopping with my wife and I am finding that I like the dare of it all. It is like what Ridge said - adrenaline rush. I don't ever want to get to the point where I feel I need to dress most of the time.

So my question is this - will this desire take over my life if left unchecked or will it die down after exploration? What have others found?

[CJ]

Hi all,

Melissa,

That's a good point you brought up; I think it varies from one person to another. In my case, and although I've been crossdressing on a fairly regular basis for thirty years (I'm 42), there's never been a progression in the intensity of my desires. The only times my CDing came to the fore in a much more "forceful" manner is when I was partnered with women who not only supported this but actively encouraged it. And, there, I encountered my limits; to the consternation of some of my SOs, I just wasn't comfortable with the idea of fe-maling on a full-time basis. So I didn't. And I don't.

As far as your own anxieties about what the future holds for you (in terms of your desires), you can dispel some of them if you always listen to yourself closely, heed your feelings in relation to who you think you are (and want to be), and respect your own limits. The moment you become uncomfortable with a situation, re-evaluate both the situation itself and your own understanding of that situation. Above all (and with all this still in mind), never be afraid to enjoy who you are and find pleasure in the beauty of your own being. This is how others, friends and SOs alike, are able to find us and share willingly in that pleasure.

By the way, Melissa, if you ever find a way to "check our desire," please, please let me know. I, for one, would be willing to give it a shot (even though it seems I'm not even able to quit smoking, of all things).

CJ

[Alexandra]

Pardon me if my legal training comes in

Huh?? Well, I suppose I'm glad YOU OPENED THE DOOR by making that statement . . . it allows me to ask you this: if you DO have legal training, then why is your first post in this thread contains generalities and is absent of facts?? Even first year law students can debunk your statements on cross.

Why not make a statement based on facts instead? Making generalities and hiding behind "opinions" isn't good use of your "legal training." Are you a lawyer? If not, do you have a law degree? Neither of these questions are required to be answered.

Have a good day.

[Marilyn]

Why not make a statement based on facts instead?

This could be said to go both ways...

Hugs.

[Alexandra]

agreed, but, if I understand you correctly, in THIS particular thread, the burden of proof is on Ridge.

[Ridge]

Alexandra'

Pardon me, but fact: a lawyer is someone who holds a law degree. I hold a law degree. I also hold an MBA and a BS in Mechanical Engineering. Thus, I am an engineer as well as a business person as well as a lawyer. You do not have to practice to be a lawyer, or a doctor for that matter. The title comes from the degree earned.

My opinion is based on whatever I want it to be based on. You may not agree with my "facts." I can hold up a placard and show one side to you: you see it is black. I ask the color and you say "black." But on my side of the placard it is red, thus, I say the color is "red." Fact: there are two correct answers - depending on your point of view.

What facts do you want me use? In our society, women wear dresses, men do not. But women also wear trousers while men do.

I our society, women wear bras for the obvious reasons,. Men do not need to wear bras. So what conclusion do we draw from the fact that men who wear bras do not need to wear them? That they wear them for some reason other than physical need?

Fact: men and women are different physically, emotionally, and in any other way you want think of. Fact: marriage is at this time still between a man and woman. Fact: typical sexual intercourse requires a man and woman. Fact: heterosexual women typically want to have sex with a man, and vice versa.

Fact: men typically do not dress in womens clothes especially to have sexual intercourse, nor do women dress in mens clothes to have sex. Fact: clothes are not required to have sex.

Fact: several men in their postings said they were sexually aroused by dressing.

Fact: several SOs said in their postings their man dressed only during sex.

Inference (based on facts): dressing was a sexual pleasure.

Fact: several SOs said in their postings they did not like this arrangement.

Fact: other SOs said they were okay with the arrangement.

Inference: How the SO reacts is individual decision.

Fact: Generalities are facts. (See above) E.g.: All women have breasts; they may vary in size, but all women have breasts. E.g. Green is th color in all stop lights to signal it is safe to proceed.

Fact: Opinions can based on specific facts or generalities. I do not hide behind opinions any more or less than you.

Question: what is your definition of "fact?" Something that is true? But to whom? In my placard example above what is the fact? It is that the card is both red and black!! Each of us would be wrong if we merely stated the color we saw. IT WOULD NOT BE A FACT.

BUT WE ARE ALL AFFECTED BY WHAT WE SEE AND EXPERIENCE. IT IS NOT ALL FACTS AS YOU WOULD LIKE IT DEFINED. YOUR FACT THAT IT IS COMMON FOR MEN TO DRESS AS WOMEN IS DICTATED BY THOSE AROUND YOU. OTHERS IN SOCIETY HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW WHETHER YOU THINK IT IS RIGHT OR WRONG.

From your response it seems you have some legal training as well. Care to share your legal training and experience? Merely a question since you brought it up.

YOU HAVE AN OPINION AND ARE ENTITLED TO IT. YOUR OPINION IS BASED UPON YOUR SET OF FACTS AND EXPERIENCES. MY OPINION IS BASED ON MY SET OF FACTS AND EXPERIENCES. NEITHER IS RIGHT AND NEITHER IS WRONG.

SO WHAT IS EVERYBODY'S PROBLEM?? IS THAT MY OPINION DOES NOT "JIVE" WITH YOURS THUS IT MUST BE WRONG. THE TERM USUALLY ASSOCIATED WITH THIS POSITION IS CALLED "PREDJUDICE." OR "BIGOTRY."

I HAVE LAID OUT MY OPINION FOR ALL TO READ AND DISSECT. SO GIVE ME THE COURTESY OF YOUR DISCUSSION IN A LOGICAL, RATIONAL DISCUSSION AS TO WHY I SHOULD ADOPT YOUR POSITION. I WILL READ IT AND I SHALL CONSIDER IT POINTS. JUST MAYBE IT WILL BE DONE SO ELOQUENTLY I WILL CHANGE MY OPINION. SO GIVE IT A TRY.

RIDGE

[Shannon]

Okay, I have read this topic through from start to finish and also about half of the "Disgusting" tiopic and I am bothered by how they are going...

I am VERY glad to see the exchance of "humble opinons" but I am not at all impressed by the wording used.

Ridge, I think your initial post to this topic is an obvious attempt to piss people off, your comments are vague generalities, insulting and show very little ability to make a logical arguement (like you ask others to do)..... I ask you to refrain from such obvious attempts to make enemies and stir the flames... This forum is ment to be a place to learn, argue politely and grow... There is no need to insult people here and for that reason only I have little respect for you and all your degrees...

I personally feel you (Ridge) should either move on and find another way to spend your time or apologize to all for your purpously inflamitory wording and try to regain the respect of the people you have insulted (me being one of them)...

Now for my opinion on the subect of this topic.... As Melissa pointed out in the "Disgusting" topic, I have posted here and make no attempts to hide my sexual motivations for crossdressing. It started out as a big sexual turn on for me and is still a major part of it.... I will never deny that.... but I personally find the idea of "selfish" insulting and way too general to come from somebody as educated as Ridge (Lawyer, BSME, MBA, etc)....

I personally see NOTHING wrong with being turned on by crossdressing... are only certain things proper to arouse us, and other wrong or disgusting?

I am personally coming to grips with my crossdressing and societies condemnation of me for it, I have spent many years feeling like there is something wrong with me wanting to wear women's clothing.... now I am getting over that with the help of a great supportive wife (who's opinion and feelings I always respect)... but now I am starting to find something else.... Within a group of similar minded people (this forum) I am feeling like my crossdressing attitudes are "wrong" because I might be turned on by it, becuase I might have not "grown" into the correct crossdressing state of mind....

I find it amazing how no matter how specific a group gets, there is always this attitude that "we are right" and "you are wrong"....

In closing, be warned Ridge.... if you have any desire to stay apart of this forum you had better learn to be polite.....

Shannon

[Ridge]

Shannon

You state I am not being polite and that I should move on. I ask you to point out in one of my posts where I have personally attacked anyone. You will not find any such entry. Indeed, to my knowledge I have not even named anyone, as you were named by others in their reposnse to my posts. Yet, you and many others feel obliged to personnally attack me. So who is not being polite?? Who has insulted whom??

I shall refrain from any further response to such personal attacks on me.

If I have insulted people, then they need to contact me, as some have., and I shall personnally apologize. Please read the posts and you shall see that "peace" was made after each side stated their position.

So when people attack me as in my education, as you do in this post, that is being polite? And I was only reacting to someone, name withheld purposely, who made derogatory comments on my education.

The hypocricy of your position speaks volumes.

So I ask now that all of you who have been insulted by my remarks, please post to me so I may aplogize personnallly for offending you. It is not my intent to offend anyone. However, neither I nor you can control how someone reacts to comments.

From my brief time in this forum this thread seems to have been one of the hot topics. Why is that? Maybe it indeed struck a chord, positive or negative, to which people wanted to respond.

You state this is a place to learn, argue politely and grow. I have learned how narrow-minded and hateful people can be. I have argued politely while others personnaly attack me. And I have grown from knowing what other people feel.

As others have stated, these are my opinions, which are neither wrong nor right, just mine.


Ridge

[CJ]

Hi Ridge,

I'm not sure how many ways there are of saying this: it's not your opinions, however humble, that have riled up people's feelings here, it's the way in which you chose to present them. The very first post in this thread begins with a slap in the face.

It's not about convincing others (or wanting others to convince us) of the rightness or wrongness of our opinions (or of our behaviour, for that matter), it's about trying to understand why people do the things they do and how they become the people they are. You'll never be able to do that by swinging a hammer around and smashing things up, regardless of whether or not what you advance is true.

It's called being politic--not, mind you, politically correct... that's something else entirely. In other words, how you say something (whether or not it's inflammatory or controversial) has a direct bearing on the degree of success you'll have in getting people to stop and listen to what you're actually trying to say. Never underestimate the power of a sympathetic stance in fostering a healthy dialogue. As Shannon mentioned, the wording is important, not so that we can prevent our fragile natures from being buffeted by high-minded tornadoes, but so that we can hear the music behind the screeching winds.

By the way, Ridge, you may think that people's opinions are neither right nor wrong; while that may sound true, it only is if you can live with the fact that opinions may have harmful or destructive consequences and outcomes. If you doubt that, you need go no further than this page: http://www.gender.org/remember/index.html#.

Respectfully,
Christina

[Stephanie Higgins]

Well, I must say that I started dressing awhile ago, but I am still in those starting years I have never thought about anything like that. I dress because I like the feel and the freedom of the clothes. I dont dress because I get excited, in fact I dont even get excited half of the time but I still dress.

I think this WAS pushing the boundaries of this site but I also think that if this is as bad as it gets then I doubt that people will leave. Remember there ARE young people on this site so try to keep it mainly clean.

Stephanie

[Ridge]

CJ;

I still contend opinions are neither wrong nor right. How people act on those opinions can indeed have bad outcomes. I do not condone the acts of people that hurt or kill others.

Have you heard the expression: "shock and awe" as used in the war on Irag? Have you heard of the device called "contrary positions?" One gets the attention of others through many options, these are two approachs. Are they all bad? I think not. Could other approaches be used? Yes. Are all aproaches effective? Yes, some better than others.

My intent has been to get people thinking, mind you without personally attacking anyone. If you are offended, I apologize. But I did get you thinking and posting your thoughts for the benefit of others.

Some people live by the old saying: "First you are born. Life sucks, and then you die." I do not. But nobody said life was easy or fair. Indeed, it is not. Being a CD is not an easy road to follow. I hope that all people can achieve their personal goals and have a wonderful life.

Ridge

[Marilyn]

The very first post in this thread begins with a slap in the face.

I'm sorry. I've been having a problem with this, from the beginning.

Could someone please break Ridge's first post down, in mono-syllabic words (because I seem to be having trouble grasping what everyone is saying here), as to how it is a slap in the face?

I see a statement of opinion. I even see some explanation as to how he formed his opinion (personal experiences). I see pieces of that opinion that I might agree with, and I see pieces that I might disagree with. I see nothing inately, or overtly, antagonistic or provocative. Nor does it present issues, or use description, that should offend any of this board's members.

Forgive me for being so dense, but it certainly appears that I'm in the minority with this, and would simply like a better understanding of why everyone has such a problem with how Ridge presented himself, in that post.

Thanks in advance.

Hugs.

[Marilyn]

agreed, but, if I understand you correctly, in THIS particular thread, the burden of proof is on Ridge.

Actually, it is not. See below:

My humble opinion.

This was stated, quite clearly, in his post. May I ask how you define opinion? This is how I believe opinion is most clearly defined...

"A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof"

In that definition there are no standards, or expectations, of the presentation of facts. Either expressed, or implied. It simply is what he believes to be true.

Hugs.