I'm not certain many SOs feel threatened, though I suppose some might. Do you think it could be confusion that we're feeling?
You've gone along for some time thinking you knew what turned your guy on. You thought you knew what he was thinking when you put on that Frederick's outfit & then find out he may be thinking how much he would like to wear it himself. Confusing, very confusing. It would be easier to understand (which of course is one of your initial reactions) if he were gay.
Frankly, we are not prepared for this. I would guess the same way many feel when you begin CDing. Aren't you confused?
Thanks for listening. I'd love to know what you think.
I have to go pretty far back to remember my first crossdressing encounter, back to my earliest memories. I have always felt more comfortable in girl's clothes. I don't know why. But it has been with me ever since I can remember so I never had a moment when I suddenly had the desire to dress up and then had to ask myself "Why?" It wasn't until I got older that was I taught, just as all kids are taught, that boys wear boy's clothes and girls wear girl's clothes. Society stepped in and told me I was doing something wrong and that I should be ashamed and embarassed. That's when I started feeling guilty, maybe around age 6.
Tonight I had a talk with my wife and I told her I am so tired of being asked why. I told her my the goal I want to achieve is looking as feminine as possible and that's the goal, the end, nothing more. Well maybe one other thing - to be able to do it without repercussion.
We all grow up learning waht society says is right and wrong, what is good and bad, what is acceptable and what isn't. We don't question it, we just believe it. We are all individuals trying to be like everyone else while still remaining unique. We want to be accepted, we want to belong but we say we don't want to be like anyone else, we want to be our own person.
Now if that isn't a confusing scenario I don't know what is! It's no wonder we all get so stressed sometimes.
We have all these contradictory rules laid out for us as we grow up and they when we get out on our own we find that there is no real norm. We are all truly unique. But the desire to be accepted never goes away and so we strive to be "normal" and we keep that part of us society can't accept a secret. And we all have them.
Maybe rather than judging others and analyzing them or trying to get them to explain themselves to us to our satisfaction we should just learn to accept people for who they are. There are good people and bad people. Good people care about others and if they are good it should be a natural reaction to accept them for whoever or whatever they are.
Sally, that was a great post! My wife is totally accepting, yet she does have that fear of me wanting to transition. It does bring a whole new set of rules into the arena. It is that fear of the unknown....and SRS has improved lives in many cases, but there are also cases where it has not....it is not an exact science.
For now, in our day to day life, we are lovers, and a couple....it just doesn't get too much better.....the gender issues are not really there since she accepts me as a woman. I don't think the feeling of being threatened ever came into it....maybe a little at first, but we are past that.
live life to the max, never let a day go by where you don't make a difference
Maybe it's just me, but the confidence you are able to portray in your pictures and the make up don't seem to give the same message.
I am certainly no authority on make up, so maybe I am not so sure on what it is I am really seeing?
Hi Darlene,
You certainly are the Queen of Mystery! But I'll get it out of you even if I have to hog tie you down!
Okay here goes:
Confidence vs. makeup - what's the relationship?
I can see someone gaining more confidence when they feel they look nicer.
I know the last outing I had my makeup was crap because I put it together in less time than it takes gerbils to mate. (That's the photos with my & Rudy and the moustached friend).
I portray confidence in my pictures but my makeup tells another story? Am I getting this right? What does that mean? Or better yet, what do you mean?
Please don't take this as over-sensitivity, but rather hyper curiosity.
Maybe you should write mystery novels. I know you'd get me to come back as I keep doing.
NOW SPILL YOUR GUTS, WOMAN!
Kindly and with deepest regards the dainty and ever so feminine
Being that I am certainly no authority on make up, I know of no other way of saying this other than to tell you that I see a man in woman clothes.
If that is a concern to you, you will have figure that out by yourself.
Maybe it isn't so much that there is something wrong with your make up, as perhaps the make up is not covering your maleness? It is your lips that give me this impression, and I don't know if there any thing you can do about it?
Girls,I really can't add much that hasn't already been expressed. Only one thing comes to my mind when this thread was started is what my exwife told me when we were having an evening together at home ( kids were gone) . We were each dressing in a seperate bathrooms, and I had a ton of clothes from which to choose, and let her borrow anything that she wanted. I came out and she was amost in tears and said "How can I compete with that ". I really didn't know what to say because I was feeling sad for her and happy for me because she thought I looked good. I did not handle the situation very well at all, we did end up having a nice time that night though. Didn't know I could be that intimidating until Iread this thread . Thanks for opening my eyes some more.
Do want you want to do, be who you want to be. * * Email address not current as of 10-07-2008! Please contact SilverLady(SO) immediately! See http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/v ... php?t=9237 for further information. Thank You!! * *
Being that I am certainly no authority on make up, I know of no other way of saying this other than to tell you that I see a man in woman clothes.
If that is a concern to you, you will have figure that out by yourself.
Maybe it isn't so much that there is something wrong with your make up, as perhaps the make up is not covering your maleness? It is your lips that give me this impression, and I don't know if there any thing you can do about it?
Darlene,
I am a man in women's clothing
As I said before I have no illusions of being able to pass. I just enjoy dressing.
But I do think the avatar pic is my favorite and it does look more female to me than male. But then I have had the mirror lie to me too.
My wife has made it very clear that this is a threat to her, she makes no bones about it. She has said "I thought I got to be the woman in this relationship" "Your legs are better groomed than mine".
She does not want to compete to be feminine. She was a tomboy as a kid, and in fact used to be spanked by her grandmother for playing baseball with the boys in the neighborhood, or climbing trees. Only now because of her job does she dress very feminine. And for only about 6 years has she started doing her nails. She never polished them before. I don't think she owns any lipstick at all. And I always buy better quality clothes than her, so she steals my stuff. She justifies this by saying "I am the woman in this marriage and you shouldn't be wearing this stuff anyway"
And of course there is the "I will not live with a feminine man, I am the woman." "How do you think that makes me feel that you have nicer clothes than me?"
So yes, there is not doubt in my mind that SO are threatened by this. But of course we do not look at this as a competition, most of us would trade places, at least looks wise, with our SO any day.
I've held off on replying to this one for a while, because I was trying to understand the issue. I never understood why my wife had the negative feelings that she had, because she was my "enabler". She's the one who gave me the courage to take my dressing out of the closet and into the world. When I was first exploring, she stood by me every step of the way. We went shopping together, in and out of female clothes. She taught me a lot of what I know about hair and makeup. Without her, I might still be completely in the closet (alone) about this part of my life. That was in the beginning.
As our relationship got serious, she gradually weaned me off of dressing up and going out. Then she'd get perturbed if I stayed in on my day off and did my nails, or practiced makeup. She'd sometimes let me dress up if we were fooling around, but she made me stop that too. This produced a lot of tension on my end, but I put up with things, because we loved each other.
The last couple of years we were together, I could hardly even mention anything to do with dressing, lest she go ballistic. Ironically enough, after we separated, she gave me the gift of a brand new nightie. Now, when we talk, either on the phone or online, she's supportive of me. almost as though we were never in conflict.
I never looked at my dressing as any sort of competitive activity, but in retrospect, I can see how it might have seemed that way. I'm 6' tall, and weigh about 215 pounds. I've been heavier and lighter, but seem to have settled in at my current weight. My wife has always been obese, and wears ever-increasing plus sizes (18/20 when we married, now more like 26/28). I never made an issue of her weight. I loved her, and if she was happy with herself, I was happy with her. I wear 18s on top, and 16s on the bottom. I'm not curvy by anyone's standards, but she's said that she always thought I was prettier, and resented that.
The most common form of despair comes from not being who you are. - Soren Kierkegaard
Well girls, one of you posted that when girls go out they do not have to (pardon the word) fake being girls - they are. We on the other hand (and again no offense to my sisters who choose not to go out) but we that do go out and challenge society's "norms" usually do so under two different aspucises: One we don't try to pass, we just enjoy dressing and going out.
There is nothing wrong with that approach! Then there are those want to pass, wheather we want to look like a "slut" or just blend in. When Deborah wants to dress and go out, "she" has two major goals, one is to pass but the other is to look pretty. Yes they are in conjunction with each other, but still different in a very basic way. And the second is the attitude that I would assume that most GG's have. Is it not true that women dress for other women not to impress men?? As of our SO's attitudes as we can see from reading all the posts, the reasons are as varied as the color of panties that we have, ( uh that's a joke) but seriously, they love us, they hate us, they tolerate us, they help us, they ignore us, or they just accept us. We must learn what works for us and our own relationships then share those results with your sisters here so we can make it easier for those who follow.
Love you gals,
Deborah
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
Hi,
CJ, that is quite a question. And Sally, I have found most of what you said
to be true in my case.
Over the last year I have found how my attitude and demeaner changes
people around me. Others began to be more considerate towards me as
I became more confident in myself and began to center my focus on those
I am with and not my own agenda. (What a mouthful). I enjoy visiting
with strangers now, whether I am dressed or not, and they respond
positively towards me.
With my wife it was different. Being together 29 years, we knew each
other fairly well, even though we have built some walls between us.
(We are currently working on taking these walls down). Like Sally said,
my wife was ok for 20 years when I was satisfied staying in the house.
My decision in the early 90's to take short walks in our neighborhood,
was not her decision. I have been scared of what might happen if
discovered. She knew that fear also. She has and still fears my discovery
by others. For her being known as a woman who has knowingly lived
with a Cross-dresser and supported him, would put as bad or worse a
social stigma on her as it would on me.
Because I have accepted myself and believe I can now survive intact
if discovered by the wrong people, does not mean my wife or your
wife, Julie M., have come to accept that reallity. That you have accepted
the good and bad from cding, even to the point of loosing friends because
of their wive's disapproval, does not mean your wife accepts these things
because you love dressing as a woman.
Again, if your wife felt the need to dress and feel and act like a man in
public, would you be supportive? Even if by your experiences you can
embrace that scenario, your wife does not share the same experiences
as you. I think most of us realize talking and communicating is
wonderful, but until you jump out of the plane, talk is only conjecture.
I don't believe my or your wife have jumped out of the plane yet.
I can understand why so many women feel threatened by this. I, like some of us brought this into the bedroom without knowing what was going on within me. As I look back to those early times this was not only a selfish attitude to persue a fantasy but I had no idea that this was causing my wife to question her own sexuality. Luckily my wife was open minded and there were never any confrontations but when I began to realize this was uncomfortable for her I kept this out of where it didn't belong. Instead I focused on trying to understand why I was having these urges to dress but since there was no internet back then there was no help anywhere. Over the years my wife has become very accepting and supportive of my feminine side but I still keep it out of the bedroom and it doesn't bother me a bit.
As I read some of the comments here it is clear that we are competition to womens femininity no matter how they express it themselves. I have often wondered how we would have reacted had the shoe been on the other foot!
I hope y'all don't mind my posting here. I just wanted to share some thoughts from my perspevctive, although it is far different from alot of the other SOs' . Still I can see things from their view point just because I am female. Doesn't mean I agree Just that I can see their side of things.
I love the fact that my hubby CDs Why, "shrug" don't really know. All I can say is that I am a very self confident and secure person. But, most people are not. Yes, a lot of women may feel "upstaged". That is because of insecurities they have about themselves. They also have issues dealing with the societal view point on CDing. You know the whole, what will the neighbors think syndrome. This also stems from lack of self confidence and personal insecurities. I personally feel that the "threat" they would feel towards CDing is rooted in their upbringing and societal training, i.e. The man is supposed to wear the pants in the family, The man is supposed to be the provider and the protector, the man is supposed to be the strong one. I say all of that is BULLPUCKY!! But alas, because of these archaic view points the woman feels that she will be ostrasized by society if she becomes involved with a CDer or any man who doesn't fit those particular roles. Hence the "threatening" feeling some get.
Wonderful topic!!
*hugs*
Blessings Eternal, Jassmine
"Love is unconditional acceptance. That quality is also our essential nature, who we really are."
--Peter Shepherd
Hi,
I find the discussion between Darlene and Julie M. on what passing really
means, interesting. I said in a post some time ago that I would love for
there to be a way we could all meet. It was in response to the question
what would you wish for. Then I wrote another post on the same question
questioning my ability to still love the ones here on the forum seeing
them face to face. Would the reality of seeing other men in dresses take
me back to my old beliefs that this is a sin. Would the visual override
my intellect? Would the reality over ride the tremendous closeness I
feel towards most of you?
Today I can say I have beaten those worries. I would care for all of you
the same even if we met. My fear was my own... that others would not
still care for me. Look at my picture. Beauty is only the opinion of the
beholder. At risk of getting in trouble, I would say that Stef comes to my
mind as one of the prettiest girls on the forum. But I like her more for
who she is and her undeniable sunny disposition.
I like you Julia because your always pushing the envelope asking and
giving new ways to consider our life and relationships. Your earlier
picture I didn't care for, but that's only me. I think you are quite pretty
in your newer picture. Beauty can become a downer for us cders
the same as girls and woman who feel they aren't good enough or skinny
enough to measure up to the most beautiful woman. Or those woman
who need that surgury to stall times toll on all of us.
Darlene, you are a beauty too. You constantly remind us that we all
have the right and also the duty to love ourselves. Those who need to
ridicule, hate and curse us are the ones we should ignore. It's so great
you are here all the time to contribute to those in need of your wisdom.
When I find time to figure out how to post to the Gallery, I look forward to
you evaluating me. So far I have only taken time to see CJ's pictures.
