Are women naturally superior?

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Terri(SO)
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Post by Terri(SO) »

Well,
I think I understand what both CJ and Elizabeth are saying but I agree with Celia. I think it really is more about the difference between male and female rather than one being superior to the other.

Curly is right, men are perfectly capable of compassion and caring.

Violet is also right, there are some really nasty, self-serving women in the world (though I think that if the majority of women in her circle are like that it might be time to make some new friends #-o ).

I know there are alot of women who might want to do away with all the men. I hope it doesn't happen. While men have disappointed me, made me cry tears of pain and anger. I couldn't do without. They have also made me very happy and made me cry tears of joy.

Men and women are two halves of a whole. In the ideal, balanced, complementary.
Love is a verb. It's a doing thing. No action, no love! - Terri
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Sally
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Are women naturally superior

Post by Sally »

I believe that to ask a question if women are naturally superior to men is asking a question with no reasonable answer.
It begs the question, "Superior in what?"

I believe that there are just so many differences between men and women, not just gender or sex related, but also nurture related. One has to generalise because individuals vary so much and there is no one 'rule' fits all, whether it be men or women.

Would it make any difference if we were born a boy or a girl if we lived in a non sexist society? Why is the differentiation so critical? No of course it wouldn't, yet the first thing we do when we meet someone is genderise them into either male or female, either consciously or unconsciouly and if we can't immediately tell which gender they are, then that causes a problem to most people. Why the desperate need to know?, possibly to know how to act and treat them, or establish the peck order or something to do with sex or establish superiority, or all of the above, who knows.

I would suggest that in the main males feel they are superior to women due to the male dominance thing. Whether that evolves through nurture, hormones or whatever it's a human trait for many people to feel superior to others on the base of size, looks, wealth, education, status, job, race, nationality, religion, morals etc etc etc.
But I can't see where a woman is naturally superior to a man and vice versa, maybe in an individual case on a certain topic, but overall generally? No. There are so many differences between each that it's not possible to make a generalised comparison, and I don't just mean by looks, genitals etc, there are so many differences in how females operate to males, it's impossible to draw a comparison and say one is overall superior to the other.

Men may be generally physically stronger than females, but does that make the man superior? Well in strength maybe, but then there will be circumstances when the females lack of physical strength may make her superior in a given set of circumstances. Identically we may say men are superior to women in the fact that generally men are taller than women, but there will be circumstances arise when a woman being shorter will make them superior in that set of circumstances. To me it's an unanswerable subject.

In general it's said that women think more 'compassion' and men think more 'competition', women think more to 'attachment' over 'achievement' whereas men think more the reverse. Women value being sensitive and maintaining good relationships, but is this really correct?
Our culture does establish the gender roles where men are brought up to be strong, not to show weakness, they are encouraged to be tough, independant, demanding, aggressive, good solvers of problems, to be superior to others in being successful.
Our culture establishes that girls grow up into women and find a man who they can depend on, who will support them and future children. Our culture teaches women to be giving, emotional, the weaker sex and they are valued by their looks, their charms, but not their brains. It's considered to not be feminine if they are are tough, ambitious, demanding, they are expected to follow ' their man ' and devote their whole life to their family. One might say women in western society are generally encouraged to sacrifice any personal ambitions so as to please and care for others. Although I agree that this is hopefully changing, I believe it is still the general way in which girls are brought up.

I think that the ' women are inferior ' attitude may be somewhat muted today, although it is still subtly there. The attitude of 'keeping women in their place' may not be as rife and open as it once was, but the general rules are still there in my opinion, but hopefully time will erase them, if not completely, then in the main.

So, to finish on, I don't believe that women are superior to men or vice versa. The traits which some apply to females, such as compassion and emotion are just human traits and apply equally to men and conversely, traits such as are usually applied as being male, such as ambition, agressivness and independant etc equally apply to women. It's up to each person to make their own decision as to how compassionate or co-operative they want to be, or how much emotion they display. Women are just as logical as men are, women are just as capable of having a career as a man and a man is just as capable of running a home as a woman. Thankfully gender roles are changing, if only slowly. Why should a woman be paid less for doing the same job as a man? Is it because men are seen as superior to women? How can that be when women in the main can do an equal good job and many times they can do it better.

There was a survey done of the top 800 CEO's in the US and it was found that only one of them was a woman, and she had started up her own business. Now, is that saying that those 799 men were all superior to women, that they could do the job better?, that there weren't women capable of 'doing the job', or does it smack of prejudice. I suppose that in the main, those 799 CEO's were all picked to head their Corporations by other men, men who still see women as being too emotional, too likely to leave and have a baby, too likely to have one day a month off 'sick', still a sex object. Old habits die hard I'm afraid.

So, as I've said, personally I don't believe that women are superior to men, or vice versa, BUT I do believe that in the main, men believe women are inferior, and they believe this for all the wrong reasons.

Kind Regards.

Sally.
Watch nature, because it’s our greatest teacher, it moves and flows and moves on again. We can never be free until we disengage, so allow life to flow as you find it. The way it is, is the way it is.
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CJ
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Post by CJ »

Hi all,

Wow! This is so cool. So many good points and good responses. Thanks, Elizabeth, for getting this particular ball rolling.

Those of you that know me by now, also know that I'm a very firm believer in the complementarity of the sexes (the Yin and the Yang as forming a circle) and in the potential of any human being, male or female, to develop in any direction. I'm very much a humanist, even though, in my particular case, that humanism is flavoured with a sprinkle of feminism and a dash of evolutionary psychology.

As I stated in my original post, here (and I'll repeat it just so it's clear), women are not superior in the physical sense nor in the social sense nor even in the cultural sense (I think it can be shown that there exist sufficient examples to the contrary so that we can admit that one sex doesn't necessarily trump the other in any of these senses). By the same token, neither are men superior to women in any of these senses (despite the lopsided value our own society assigns to traditional gender roles and with the possible biologically-driven exception of physical strength).

In almost every culture in the world (including our own), women are associated with, and connected to, a "matrix of creation"--the womb, the earth, and culture itself--and this includes agriculture (the men may have been out hunting--or, more likely, ogling the nubile girls down at the local watering hole--but it was the women who gathered). I find it telling that the word "history" itself is a cognate of the word "uterus," both from from a Greek root, meaning "womb" (and this is why I bristle when I see radical feminists talking about "herstory"--it's a very inelegant pleonasm).

I still think it's this connection to life and to the affirmation of life (as embodied in the link between mother and child, both during pregnancy and in the course of a child's first year) that gives women a distinctive egde in the kind of role they can eventually come to play in the humanization of society. By humanization, I mean a focus on what could properly be called "consensus care"--the fostering of a physical and mental environment that would lead to the full flowering of every human being's potential; a focus on social justice rather than legal justice (again, it's telling that, at least in this corner of the world, most grassroots community organizations dedicated to the eradication of poverty, hunger, and lack of education are set up and run by women); a focus on preventative and alternative health care practices rather than aggressive, penetrative, and invasive "remedies" (again, women are in the vanguard, here); a focus on a sustainable, long-term, human-oriented economics rather than a cold, calculated, profit-maximizing, life-denying economics; a focus on a spirituality of connectedness rather than on calcified dogmas surrounding some "wholly other" (yes, again, women are at the forefront, here, too); and, finally, a focus on the development of the beauty and wonder of the inner experience of human beings--both male and female--rather than on the ritualized and formally permissible outer expressions of that humanity.

I'm not saying that what we have now is bad (though a big part of me wants to); no, I'm saying that what we have now is too much of it. Too much of sky, and not enough of earth; too much of dryness, and not enough of wetness; too much of up, and not enough of down; too much of right, and not enough of left; too much of mountaintops, and not enough of caves; too much of blinding light, and not enough of soothing darkness; too much of noise, and not enough of silence; too much of fighting, and not enough of holding hands; too much of screaming, and not enough of singing; too much of fear, and not enough of love; too much of compartmentalization, and not enough of wholeness; too much of Yang, and not enough of Yin. In the end, too much of maleness, and not enough of femaleness. Don't get me wrong: we need (or, we will express, regardless of our needs) all of the above. But methinks the pendulum has swung as far as it can go in the direction of "the natural superiority of men" without our now being on the edge of some dangerous precipice. As things now stand, women are naturally superior because (again, all generalizations taken into account), the "way of women" stands a better chance of redressing the balance than anything men seem able (or unable) to come up with.

Yes, I know that men and women are just different, not inferior or superior to one another. And, no, I'm not an essentialist, despite everything I've written above. I don't believe that testosterone (or a double-X chromosome or what have you) are the only determinants in the possibility of anyone--male or female--achieving their full human potential (or being capable of the most despicable horrors, for that matter). In the end, I do believe, like Drs. Green and Money stated way back in the 70's, that the only real difference between men and women is that men produce sperm whereas women menstruate, ovulate, gestate, and lactate. My contention is that the experience of gestation, above all others, gives women (generally--and I'll never tire of repeating this) an inherent advantage when it comes to "emotional" or "compassionate" intelligence. Again, let me be clear: this type of "intelligence" has nothing whatsoever to do with reason or intellectual capacities. The brightest people I personally know are women (and, yes, some of the most compassionate ones I know are men... but what that says to me is that men are capable of taking a page from "the book of women" in pretty much the same way that women are capable of taking a page from "the book of men," to wit: Margaret Thatcher).

Anyway, the subject's pooped me out. Ultimately, I will always deal with another human being--man or woman--on the basis of that person's "personhood," not just on his or her sex. But, for me, I'll try to find a way to exist, to be in the world, that is nurturing and fostering. And, so far, most (not all) of my role models in this regard are women. And I'll take that as my cue to see some kind of personal meaning in the fact that I still attribute a natural superiority to women.

Again, this is a great thread. All your responses are not only welcome but very much appreciated. Thanks to all. 8)

Love,
CJ
Last edited by CJ on Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Violet
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Post by Violet »

I believe that to ask a question if women are naturally superior to men is asking a question with no reasonable answer.
It begs the question, "Superior in what?" ... I believe that there are just so many differences between men and women, not just gender or sex related, but also nurture related ... Would it make any difference if we were born a boy or a girl if we lived in a non sexist society? Why is the differentiation so critical? No of course it wouldn't, yet the first thing we do when we meet someone is genderise them into either male or female, either consciously or unconsciouly and if we can't immediately tell which gender they are, then that causes a problem to most people. Why the desperate need to know?, possibly to know how to act and treat them, or establish the peck order or something to do with sex or establish superiority, or all of the above, who knows.
I sure wish I had one of those little "I agree" signs right about now... =D>

To CJ: I fully agree with what you say about the balance of Yin and Yang energy and influence, and I certainly agree that we as a global society have a long ways to go toward properly integrating femininity into our culture and ourselves. I just think it's a mistake to think about it in terms of 'superiority'. Yes, statistically, women tend toward F-axis rather than T-axis personalitis (though whether this is a matter of innate tendency or of cultural conditioning, as other personality axes see a perfectly even distribution, I don't know). In the past I have thought of myself as a hard-as-nails rationalist with neither appreciation nor use for F-type emotional logic. Since realizing and embracing my love for my own anima/inner female, I have come to understand that I operate just as much on emotion as on logic, and that true self-actualization rests in embracing and integrating both into my will. I think any and all humans have the capacity for this. It's not a question of male and female, and it's not a question of superiority, it's a question of balance and equalization.

And on that note, I think I have also exhausted what I have to say on this topic. We now return you to your regularly schduled HOOHAH!
"There's something wrong with him. He should be mine, but he's not. His madness... his madness keeps him sane..."
Delirium, 'the Sandman', Niel Gaiman
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