Forum Direction?

[DonnaT]

I have heard from members on this and other CD forums ( Loretta, maybe even you might have said this), that there are plenty of other sites out there if one wants the sex talk to Cding. Well, I have asked where are these other forums, I asked if there are any CD forums that members can talk to each other about these kinds of subjects, well, no one told me about any forums like this, even though they say there are many of them out there.

You know, Amelie, I can find just about anything, so I'll send you a PM.

[Loretta Ann]

Once again, these forums are fine, for the people that want this type of forum. So Loretta, just the same as people have told me, I will repeat their words. If you want to discuss things that are not liked by the mods or other members then you have to find other forums that will allow your subjects to be discussed. I have heard this many times from Cds on these forums, I am just repeating what they have said to me.


So, Loretta, there are subjects that you feel should be discussed here, and there are subjects that I feel should be discussed here, it’s up to the owner if they are to be allowed.

What gave you the impression that I am wanting the forum to change? I am quite satisfied to go else where which I have already done.

CJ.

I strongly advise that if you do not like this forum, you have every right to leave rather than spoiling the experience for those who are open to being enriched by coming here. Aggressive "in-your-faceness" to no constructive end is the common tool of trolls. If you want to criticize, fine. But do so constructively. Contribute positively to the forum or don't contribute at all. I'm open to suggestions from any and all members but this heedless forum-bashing will stop. Is this clear enough?

Aye Aye Capitan Very glad to oblige you mam. Inferring that others opinions are non constructive and the work of trolls is what I would expect from you. No surprise there. Just more of your projection.

Guess what.. I know you won't change. You can't change because it is a personal security issue for you. You can not function without the control.

And yes that is quite clear enough thank you very much.

As for spoiling the experience for those who are open to being enriched by coming here. I will let you continue to do that on your own. As clearly demonstrated you don't need any help with that.

By the way...Just what did you hope to accomplish with your last post here? I already told you that I was not aspiring to return, but might respond to any responses to my post. All you had to do was not respond. That was not good enough for you hey? Hmmm I wonder why? (Not really though) because I know why.

[Marda]

Thanks Marda, you haven’t lost your touch in confusing me, nice to see you again.

Hi Amelie,
~
Tnx for your welcome and confirmation
- and I really value your msg here
- you've provided me a much needed glimpse of where you and many others come from

I'm from the complete and total *opposite* place(s) as you
- it's really important that people like me learn more from and about people like you
- and from what I can see,
because you are very clear, direct, and positive in your views, and
because you can leave your personal anxieties out of your comments,

you are helping to educate people like me

Through *this forum*, you are helping
bridge the communication gap(s)
between people like you and where you're from,
and people like me and where I'm from

More later,
Tnx so much for now Amelie
~
h's / Marda

[Eva]

Uh oh, just when I thought I was finished with this topic...I think I have to simply state my real point, which simply asking the moderators to behave themselves and avoid arbitrary or unwitting misuse of power.
I don't feel a moderator should "strongly advise" anybody to leave. If you want to ban someone, that something yiu can do, but there is power in words and being a moderator means you have assumed "power," which as we all know, can corrupt...
When I offered my party analogy to the house analogy, I meant the party as the forum, not a literal party....I would think a real obligation to the owner is to make sure as wide a group as possible exists here.Isn't that why the number of registrants is listed at the bottom...and that does not mean kowtowing to complaints but answering them publicly and with dignity. A good moderator should be able to handle herself well and not bend to every whim, especially if the whim is wrong....In a sense, all who complain, really are trying to improve the forum. whether their suggestions are good is another matter.
There was some suggestion here about breaking down hot topics to talkies and non-talkies, whatever. There is enough of a breakdown already and truthfully, I havent seen a hot topic that is really hot.
In a previous post I related the story of the moderator challenge to my names and CJ offered sort of an apology, which I did not want or need....The story was intended to show how misuse of power could make a newbie cringe and depart...The matter did not deter me from staying, BUT my real question is what about those who might have been turned away by that or someone supposedly in authority saying "leave."

Luv to all,
e

[Marda]

Uh oh, just when I thought I was finished with this topic...I think I have to simply state my real point, which simply asking the moderators to behave themselves and avoid arbitrary or unwitting misuse of power.

I don't feel a moderator should "strongly advise" anybody to leave. If you want to ban someone, that something yiu can do, but there is power in words and being a moderator means you have assumed "power," which as we all know, can corrupt...

When I offered my party analogy to the house analogy, I meant the party as the forum, not a literal party....I would think a real obligation to the owner is to make sure as wide a group as possible exists here.

Isn't that why the number of registrants is listed at the bottom...and that does not mean kowtowing to complaints but answering them publicly and with dignity. A good moderator should be able to handle herself well and not bend to every whim, especially if the whim is wrong....

In a sense, all who complain, really are trying to improve the forum. whether their suggestions are good is another matter.

There was some suggestion here about breaking down hot topics to talkies and non-talkies, whatever. There is enough of a breakdown already and truthfully, I havent seen a hot topic that is really hot.

In a previous post I related the story of the moderator challenge to my names and CJ offered sort of an apology, which I did not want or need....

The story was intended to show how misuse of power could make a newbie cringe and depart...The matter did not deter me from staying, BUT

my real question is what about those who might have been turned away by that or someone supposedly in authority saying "leave."

Luv to all,
e

Hi Eva,
and *Thank You* for not being finished yet,
and for your direct, positive expansion
/ clarification of your views

and,
for allowing me this opportunity to "meet you"

It seems there is much I need to learn about life,
and like Amelie, and others here at this forum,
you seem to be one whose participation
I can and will happily learn from / by

Tnx again & More Later
~
h's / Marda

[GalicianGirl(SO)]

I was just curious to see how far this would go and how long it would take before members start to get down right mean. Normally this would probably have been moved or locked by now but I wanted you to “get it all out”.

Now I have a few things to say...

There is nothing wrong with posting how you feel about things on this forum. It is how things are said that get posts moved, locked or even deleted. The majority of the members here come to seek help and find acceptance not to read posts where members are bashing and flaming each other. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t give you the right to condemn others. We are not forcing anyone to come to this forum. If you do not like the way it is run, you are free to go to any of those others where anything goes. Please don’t ruin it for others who enjoy their time here.

It is not an easy job to run a forum. We try our hardest to listen to what our members have to say and help accommodate them whenever we can but it is impossible to make everyone happy all the time.

Hot Topics Issue…

The majority wanted Hot Topics private, so that’s what we did. Maybe too many posts were moved or deleted in haste but it was more for precaution then anything else. We all have seen the direction that some posts go when certain topics, such as religion and politics, were discussed. This forum was never set up as a political or religious forum and will never become one.


On a lighter note…

I know there is always room for improvement and I’m sure this forum will make small changes to keep up with what our members want. We will be more then happy to listen to your suggestions.

Just remember, we are support forum and our priority is to maintain a welcoming atmosphere for all.

Sharon(SO)

[Amelie-Laveau]

What gave you the impression that I am wanting the forum to change? I am quite satisfied to go else where which I have already done.


I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I have trouble putting my thoughts into words.

I said that I didn't want the forum to change just to suit MY needs. I didn't say that you, Loretta wanted the forum to change. I am sorry if I wasn't clear with my words.

All I said was that if the owner of this site wants to go in the direction he or she wants the forum to go, then it is her or his right to do so. The owner has the right to keep the forum the same as it was or to change the forum however he or she wants. So, what I said to you was what others have told me on CD forums and that is if you or I want to discuss things that are not always liked by the mods or members then you and I have to find a forum that fits our needs. And from your last post it looks like you have already found this place.
Good Luck in whatever you do, you and me are quite different, but we still have a common bond in CDing. So keep safe where ever you go.
Amelie

[Elizabeth]

Hi girls,

Interesting?

I wonder how many of you can remember what you were thinking when you came here for the first time? What were you thinking when you hit the "register" link? And what were you thinking after you read the first few posts?

I am a fairly intelligent person. I understand the implications of free speech and suppressing ideas. I have to wonder where anyone got the idea that privately ran forums, paid for 100% by the owners of the forums, where a place of free speech?

It is up to the owner of any given forum, what topics will be discussed, and in what way. No one is asked to pay anything and no one is promised a voice. It is a place where people can meet and share ideas. It is always up to the owner what that will be and each person always has the option of going to some other place.

The owner of this forum has a published, stated purpose. That purpose being support. The owner has followed a path, soliciting opinions of the members, to acheive this purpose. The owner has attempted to appease the most amount of people possible, in order to reach those they wish to help.

To say the owners do not listen to input is just not true. I lobbied, started a thread and a poll to get rid of "Hot Topics". I totally instingated that. It was not the owners of this forum who just imposed it. In the end they compromised between those who wanted it gone, like me, and those who wanted an open forum, like Sally. The compromise was to put it in an area that new members could not see until they had been here for 30 days.

Sally is a valued member of this forum, but it is her choice where she goes, and where she posts. She may object to "Hot Topics" being in a "special access" area, but she also left and quit the forum before we even had "Mordor", because of all the flaming.

Well that's it for me. I have no use for public anger and bickering. I bid everyone farewell and wish everyone all the best.

Sally.

The direct result of this feud that led Sally to leave back then, was the creation of the Area call "Mordor", which was later changed to "Hot Topics".

The choice of the forum owner was to create an area to discuss heated matters, or watch it's membership leave because of "public anger and bickering".

Even the formation of Mordor changed this place. It became a place to be angry and there was name calling and back biting. It was really a crappy time. I thought the forum was ruined. Again, I lobbied to rid the forum of Mordor. I started another thread to see if I could get a consensus. I urge you to read it.

http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/v ... ght=#48615

In this thread I wrote the following:

And now here we are. And I sense trouble in the Kitchen. It started with the pre election rhetoric, advanced to Mordor, and now just out in the open. Now it's just a slugfest. I see a lot of people attacking others. I have seen "whatever" in response to posts. I have seen condescending attitudes. I have seen the Founder of this very soup kitchen come out swinging. And today I was utterly shocked to see someone critisizing others because they did not approve of what was being posted in "Creativity Corner."

Good Grief!!!!!! Attacking people in Creativity Corner? For not being original enough? That is what we have been reduced to? Where are the moderators? It's time to start deleting anything that is not nice. One of the rules of this Forum is that you have to be nice.

It is out of hand. It's time to take back this soup kitchen. It's not a poltical forum. It is not a place to solve world problems of crossdressers. It is time to say that the primary purpose of this forum is to give support (Soup)

And I was not a lone voice. Loretta, CJ and others joined me in this cause.

I am the Sister to who Elizabeth referred to in her post, as having the conversation with. She helped to open my eyes to a few things that I did not see here. She has an amazing insight into the situation here, (much more than I had) and I am honored to have a friend such as her.

First as a result of our conversation I want to publicly state that I have gained a new appreciation for CJ and what she is trying to do here, and I hope I can work together with her a little more closely, than I have been able to in the past. Although we do have our differences, you can hand me a ladle, on this one too CJ.

As a result of the recent activity here I have began to look around for other sites, and I have discovered some where some of our sisters (who have left) are at, that are indeed more like the soup kitchen Elizabeth is talking about. where those with negative attitudes such as Elizabeth has referred to are simply not allowed.

You see, it is so easy to sit here and "scape goat" Beauty, or Sharon or anyone else, but it was no one persons opinion that the forum be the way it is. It was the opinion of most of the membership. This forum can not be all things to all people. But what it can be, and what it has been, is a place for frightened, or isolated or just needing some friends, crossdressers to not feel like freaks. A place to be accepted, befriended and indeed even loved.

I wish that it could be a platform for political reform, and a voice to religious expression, but experience has taught us it can not be all those things, and still suceed in the primary mission, support.

I am very saddened that Beauty had to leave, but I trust she knows what she is doing, and where she is going. I will not lose touch with her, because she is a friend of mine. I love her, and will miss her presence and wisdom here. I welcome our new moderators with open arms and wish to throw my support to all of our moderators, to keep this the wonderful place it is.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Loretta Ann]

Sally is a valued member of this forum, but it is her choice where she goes, and where she posts. She may object to "Hot Topics" being in a "special access" area, but she also left and quit the forum before we even had "Mordor", because of all the flaming.

On May 12, 2004 Sally wrote:

Well that's it for me. I have no use for public anger and bickering. I bid everyone farewell and wish everyone all the best.

Sally.

With all due respect that was on another occasion that Beauty was leaving. Sally returned and contributed much here since she made that statement. Sally is a very gentle spirit, and your representation of that quote is taken way out of context as it is misleading.

As for your reference to my past support that you have alluded to here. My support was the result of administration doing nothing about the posters who were attacking and flaming others. And there is still residue in the quote of the day thread (last time I checked) that has not been cleaned up that is a result of that time.

Simply having a hidden section where it states A place for all who like discussions on politics, religion, current affairs, society, culture, gripes about life and other hot topics!!! Is in my opinion treating us like children who are unable to choose which channel to select. That is not the picture I was supporting.

I have nothing against a hidden section where posts could be sent to that are attacking or flaming, with the offender having access... sort of a warning that if the behavior continues the next step is eviction. That is sort of the kind of thing I thought I was supporting

Sharon,

No one here is asking you to turn this into a political and/or a religious forum. (and never has) Both Sally and I have not gone near anything like that. In fact I refused when others attempted to draw me into that kind of a conversation.

The thread at the top of this thread that I referred to was not religious, no one was flaming anyone. In fact I thought all responses were quite mature ones. It was about people... religious or not. Yet it was locked.

Tell me just what is it about a topic that is hot? Is not calling a particular topic hot...denial of the immaturity of the poster that makes it hot? Is it not called enabling?

What I have offered here is criticism. I am expecting you to be yourself. I am trusting you to have a high enough maturity level that you will be able to recognize that you can not meet everyone's needs or wants. Yet free enough to recognize the problems and work through them. Then simply say this is my vision or my contribution to the CD community, this is the need or needs that I want to meet.

Your success will depend on how many of us are in need of your contribution. As well as the quality of the tools you have and select to help you meet those needs.

I have a simple principal that serves me well. If I am not in a position of leadership I do not offer suggestions. Offering suggestions is like saying I want you to change. Where all I want you to do is present what it is you have to offer, in a package that is understandable, and workable. and let others decide if that is what would benefit them.

Disclaimer...Non of the above is intended to be misconstrued as an aspiration (at this time...on my part) to resume contributing outside of this thread.

Respectfully,
Loretta Ann.

[Marda]

Hi Elizabeth,
~
Tnx so much for your clear, positive & comprehensive post
- quite a review / summary and history lesson for someone like me who's returning after being away for a long time

Realizing that my enthusiasm for this forum may have seemed like an intrusion on a much deeper and wider scoped view of 'family business' than I had anticipated, I thank everybody for being patient with me

My situation is real simple; I've been away for almost a year; I've been electronically isolated for months; I recently rebooted a very old, simple and slow PC/dialup system with extremely limited capabilities (it takes near 5 min to powerup, logon and download a file like this) ...

My recent personal involvement in my own local 'facespace' community has been extremely different than anything I've ever seen online and different from anything I've ever experienced before ...

I'm so thankful that this site has been operated, maintained, and kept open to me and everyone else who comes here; I literally don't visit any other CD sites/forums, and I periodically visit only one other site which is related to my outside music interest ...

I have one particular friend who is not a CD, and he has had absolutely no internet or computer experience in his life *ever* ...

In a certain way, I've been running in a sort of 'dry, empty, vacuum like space'; like being caught between "normal" and CD worlds, and between electronic and non-electronic worlds ... in some ways it's been like being trapped in a state of suspension - hence my referral to a state of "hibernation" ...

I'm so thankful to be back here, now ... I thank everyone for their tolerance of my rather 'noisy' and abrupt arrival the other night, and for my postings into 'sensitive territory' over the last couple of days ...

To those I've never met, I look forward ... and to all everyone else, thanx for keeping a candle in the window ...

I hope to learn more about everyone soon, and eventually, a lot *because* of the support I've found here in the past, I may once again become productive in my own 3D 'facespace' world
~

Love / Marda

[Sally]

This will be my last word in this discussion. In hindsight we can all be extremely wise, but often some damage may be done before we realise it. On reflection, it may have been wiser for me to PM Sharon to inform her of my position, thereby maybe avoiding some of the upheaval which has resulted. I stand corrected if I'm wrong, but I believe it was Sharon who last year asked for anyone who was intending to cease participating to please inform her, and if thought relevant, to give any reasons why, which may have been helpful for future reference and stop people wondering the reasons why. That was my intent on entering this discussion and I now believe I may have gone about it in a smarter way. I have the deepest respect for the lady and sincerely apologise for any hurt I may have caused her or anyone else for that matter..

One swallow doesn't make a summer and if some fly the coop then there is always 6 fly in to take their place. Just as any family has disagreements and differing opinions, so will this 'family' from time to time, but the good thing about most families is that when the chips are down they close ranks and pull together. This is just another family hiccup, an airing of opinions and as in any family, the head of the family should, and will have last say, then the family gets on with their day to day business as usual and life goes on. I think that time has come here, and this discussion has run its' course and serves no useful purpose in being prolonged. The guidelines of the forum have been put in place for the betterment of the majority, in the opinion of the owners, and that's how it has to be and everyone must accept that and bring this to its' closure.

As Sharon has again stated, she wants this to be a place for support, where those who need it can come in safety and have the security in the knowledge they will be accepted for the person they are, and assistance in dealing with any problem is always readily available. I only come to participate in a forum like this to offer support to others and try to impart a small amount of my knowledge gained over a lifetime of crossdressing and gender conflict, to anyone seeking support. Personally, I'm not in any need of support as I've long conquered all my demons, and face the world each day confident in the knowledge I fear no one for being myself openly to the world. I've been through the times of all the physical and verbal abuse for being born as I was, and I've emerged relatively emotionally intact and unscathed, with the support of a loving wife and family, and my sincere hope is that many people will eventually achieve the same. In real day to day life, and also on here, my objective has only ever been to try and give support to those who seek it.

I'm not an angry person and as many people know, I will never get involved in an argument and prefer always to walk away from conflict, but as always I like healthy, lively, controlled, and intelligent discussion, and always encourage a differing of opinions because we will never learn anything from someone who totally agrees with us, and none of us do know or ever will know it all. At no stage have I ever entered into a political or religious discussion because they are no win situations all round, and in my opinion religious and political views are personal and private, and are not up for public debate with me, so that was never an issue for me here. The only time I ever touched on those issues was when they were mildly related to issues dealing with the TG world and I believe then they become very relevant. I've had postings here locked away because I was talking about pedophile issues and I believed that was wrong and at the time privately discussed it with the mod responsible, and we agreed to disagree, but I believe it is an issue which needs to be more openly discussed as every parent or family member needs to be vitally aware of it all, and also it is a subject to which we, as crossdressers or TG people should have a keen interest because we are so often seen in the same light as pedophiles by many people in the general community. I believe it is a separate element far removed from any of the CD,TG, Gay or Bi community who prey on young people in such a manner and we need to get that message out there. Another area I never enter is the explicit sexual discussion, that to me is another personal and private area and it's never been an issue with me wanting to broach that subject, especially with women being a part of this forum. It's something I've always steered well clear of, so if anybody ever thought I was referring to wanting to take part in religious, political or sexual discussions then that is not, and never was the case.

I feel Sharon has given us all a good go at airing our opinions, making known our feelings and getting any dirty water off our chest. I see no useful purpose in prolonging the discussion because what's needed to be said probably has been, and it's probably time to move on for the good of everyone.

My last word on the subject is this. I never mentioned the word 'leaving', other people did. What I originally said was, "I had ceased to post here for some time because etc." In my work I use the computer daily and I've always read what's been said on here 3/4 days a week and will continue to do so, and one doesn't need to talk to consider themselves a member of any family, just being amongst family members is sometimes all which is needed to feel the warmth, togetherness and emotional spirit of the atmosphere.

For the upcoming festive season, I hope everyone has a safe, happy Christmas and may all the hopes and wishes of everyone and their families come true.

Kind Regards,

Sally.

[CJ]

Thank you, Sally. I offer the same to you and yours in return, as well as to everybody else here.

Love,
CJ