SO deeply depressed....coping?

[Dolores(GG)]

Hi Girls,

I am going through some tough times in my marriage and you girls are great at giving me some perspective and advice. I have spoken to my family but I feel like I need an un-bias view point right now.

My husband and I married and moved in about 3 years ago. June of this past year his family moved to another state. It hit him hard. He is very close to them and even moving out with me involved some getting used to for him. Reason being that he has a much much younger sibling, now 8, who he is very attached to and whom he has almost a father/son relationship I would say. He spent the whole rest of last year very depressed. He tried to hide his feelings from me but I could tell- Our love life suffered, he could become very distant, and he seemed less willing to go out. I tried to be empathetic but the truth is that I have not lived with my family since i was a teen and to me his mourning seems strange- but people feel what they feel and I try to support him.

So, for Christmas they invited us to go see them for the first time. Once there I thought things would be better because he would see that he can visit and be close to his family and the world isn't over. Boy, was I wrong. We started talking- I could see he was starting to get anxious as the trip went on- and he told me he realized how incomplete he was without them, he had to start thinking about his own happiness, and that he wanted to move there....with or without me. WHAT?!? I knew he wasn't happy with that aspect but I thought he would cope with it in time. I never thought he wasn't happy as a whole. It was crushing, and it hurt. To me, being married it working through problems together and to be issued an ultimatum was a slap in the face. It felt like I was no longer part of his family, as I consider him to be, but below it in consideration. Like, he would like it if I went but it wasn't as important as I thought it was.

He later tried to clarify, that he loves me very much and that wasn't his intention....but he knows I don't want to move there. I don't really. My family is here, my friends, and I just got a great job in my field a few months ago- there is so much diversity here and things to do. Moving to a little town isn't going to give me great prospects in what I do. He says i have everything here and he feels as if he is living in my world (apparently he even hates our apartment now because it has more of my stuff than his). But how is taking me away from everything for his gain not create the same situation?

I want to say yes to him. I love him and want him to be happy even if I don't completely understand why. I want to go back to the couple I thought we were. I have told him we need to work together so that I am confident that we find jobs there, a good area to live in, all the considerations that must be put into such a large decision. Meanwhile, he just wants to run away right now and I feel like he is so deep in mourning that he doesn't realize I feel like I am being abandoned- and that is counter productive if what he wants is for me to go with him. This isn't the man I married, the man who always talked things through with me and made choices together. While he apologized for the ultimatum, consequent fights show me that he is now making sure to keep our finances separate "just in case." He says he is being a realist, but I don't want my husband having an exit plan for the implosion of our marriage.

I know he loves me. I dont know if his homesickness is making him not think rationally right now. I have told him, that if he keeps it together and acts like my husband I will say yes when I am sure its the right thing for both of us. If he falls apart, I will to and he will be leaving alone.

I don't know how to handle this. I waiver between wanting to move to make him happy and just anger. It hurts to hear your spouse tell you that they detest everything about your life together and then try to say that its not personal to you. I haven't done anything wrong and I'm a wonderful wife, but he hates our life? I cant separate those things in my head like he can. And I know most of this is irrational, is depression talking but I dont know what I can do. I am very lost right now.

[Carolynn]

Sounds like you have and can have a life with him, and you may well be better off without him. He has major problems and if he will not go to a shrink and get counseling and work through this, he will pull you down with him. Dunno why he is tied to his family's apron strings so strongly,what kind of insecurities and jealousies drive him, but he obviously cares more for them than for you and will blame you if you don't give up all you have and run off to nowheresville with him. From what you describe, he is not looking ahead and living in reality. His folks will die (everyone does sooner or later), and then what the heck would he do? He really has a nut freewheeling in his brain from what you write, and it may be worse than you know. If it were me in your situation (and obviously it is not), I would cut my losses and pack him off home to Momma and move on with my life. He is not growing in his independence from his family, very immature, and insecure. You have a life to live. Live it, find someone who will love YOU, and let him play in his play pen with his family.

JMHO based on what you have written.
Carolynn

[Dolores(GG)]

Carolynn,

Thanks you for your response, i like how you write. He does have issues to work through, and it is not his mother so much as his brother. He is intensely attached to him and is worried about missing out on his formative years. However, I do personally feel that once his brother is older and more concerned about girls and whatnot- where does that leave us? Still, I cant argue with that. He wont see a therapist, and I wish he would. I think part of the problem is that he is not a social person. He has no friends, doesn't like his current field of work, and now that his family is gone his circle has narrowed to one: me. I am much more social, so it is easier for me to escape my home when I need to have time for myself. I got married knowing he had insecurities and such, but no one is perfect and I thought we would be able to work through differences.

I dont know- I really don't want to give up on him. Before this came along- he has always put me first, has been supportive in everything, and we were best friends. This is partly why this is so harrowing- I just never expected this out of him.

[Anthony Simon]

Hi Dolores,

My basic response is something is being elided. Like your husband is leaving something out. He seems to be doing stuff that'll get you quite angry and I get the sense there's something underneath that I can't quite see.

So then I don't think it would just be about his brother or family - or, probably you. It may have more to do with the way his life seems dead-ended, in a job he doesn't like and without friends.

So then, that kind of leaves him dependent on you, if he stays with you - or his family if he moves over there. If he goes back to his family, whatever is being elided will stay that way - and it probably needs looking at, for his benefit if no-one else's.

I suppose I have to say that the thing that came into my mind was that you getting your dream job was the problem - like your life is going somewhere and his is (in his mind) going nowhere. If he goes back to his family, in his small town, probably his life will go nowhere.

[Dolores(GG)]

Anthony,

Just a quick response for the moment- I think your on to something there and I can definitely see truth in what your saying. I will write more later but I will be thinking about that.

[Ralitsa]

I tend to agree with Anthony, there is something more going on that isn't obvious.
Every couple, at some point, realizes that they need some interests of their own, indepent of the other person. But it's not usually so drastic or weird. To go back to his parents is just substituting a sheltered life with you for a sheltered life with them, not a real answer.
That is incredibly painful and cruel for him to tell you that he hates everything about your life together, I don't know why anybody would say that. It sounds almost like he is intentionally trying to drive you away, although I have no idea what he thinks he has to gain by that. It is very generous and loyal of you to want to work through this, obviously you take your marriage and your responsibility very seriously. On the other hand, after being told that your marriage can never be like it was before. That doesn't mean it can't be just as good, or maybe even better, because suffering through the tough times together are what makes it really worth it.
But it's clear he has some big problems that he needs to work out. If I were you I wouldn't give up yet and write him off, but neither would I just automatically give in to his craziness. There is a fundamental problem that needs to be fixed. So I have an old fashioned idea that when one spouse is being problematic, the other spouse should be there to help them pull through and deal with it, not to abandon them and say "you're not the person I married." Well if he just runs off back to his parents and leaves you, there isn't a heck of a lot you can do about that.
I think you are taking the right approach, telling him you are willing to move when you find something mutually agreeable and employment there, and all the other normal sensible conditions. Not much advice I can give you except hang tough. You're in a really bad position right now and there is no easy solution. He has to want to make it work as much as you, or it won't. But he may need some time to figure that out. Let me know if you want me to come and give him a dope slap.

[DonnaT]

Definitely feels like somethings missing from the story.

As an exercise in curiosity, ask him what he thinks about having his brother move in with y'all. Would he be content with staying home or would he still want to move to where his parents are.

Will he commit to marriage counseling to determine of there is some underlying issue (does he still CD for you?), other than his parents apron strings? If there is some other issue, moving won't solve it.

If not, well, one reason some get married is that they've found someone to complete them. If it is only his parents/brother that can fill that apparent void, then cut him loose. Your not happy, he's not happy, and you aren't going to be happy until he can commit wholly to you.

Additionally, you worked hard to find a job, and then found one you could only dream of, IIRC. I can't see you giving that up very easily, and your husband, having intimate knowledge of the struggle to find your job, shouldn't be asking you to give it up. Especially in these hard times.

[Anita]

Hi Dolores--
I can see why you're shell-shocked. I consider my girlfriend and I to be a team, and I'm used to problems being approached from that status. It's not the severity of the problems that your husband has that would upset me, even though they sound formidable. It's that he's not looking at it from the team position first of all. Being a team is no guarantee that a couple can stay together, but at least they start out looking at the situation facing the same direction, so to speak. I've gotten through what looked like impossible differences with partners, and it does come from really wanting to work together, even though it seems hopeless at first.

It sounds like he may recognize that he's gone too far, and if he wants to "make choices together" again, he's going to have to slow way down and take baby steps. I see why you feel very lost. Try to keep a steady feeling going for yourself; a core of "you" that is deep within. It's a part of you that doesn't change with the flow of events. I call it my emergency generator--like the power going out at a hospital, the EG kicks in when all the other resources go away. Maybe it comes from being single more than coupled, but I have to be able to support myself emotionally when everything else drops away.

[Melissa J]

Hi Dolores--
I can see why you're shell-shocked. I consider my girlfriend and I to be a team, and I'm used to problems being approached from that status. It's not the severity of the problems that your husband has that would upset me, even though they sound formidable. It's that he's not looking at it from the team position first of all. Being a team is no guarantee that a couple can stay together, but at least they start out looking at the situation facing the same direction, so to speak.

+1

Any decision that big must be a benefit to the both of you as a whole. It is obvious you both care about each other very much, and him saying he would go alone may have just been an emotional overload.. he obviously loves you too or he would be gone by now.. Being very close with my family I can see where he's coming from, its very comforting to be with those you love.. But tearing you away from your family and career just unbalances things the other direction.. Obviously visiting his family brings him a great deal of comfort, and regular visits should be in your future. If the distance/cost of travel is too much, send him alone.. he will come back knowing he has an awesome girl at home that cares so much about his emotional well being. Price out housing, look for jobs in the area if you are truly willing to move.. But don't forget to plan for visits to your own family back home. Either way, someone will have to compromise.

M

[Dolores(GG)]

Can I just say I truly appreciate the responses I got. You ladies have given me alot to think about.

Ralitsa, I think the most important thing I am gathering from these posts is that it fills in that missing piece. Within all the arguments we had, there was a sense of something else that kept rearing it's head but it seemed disjointed and i kept thinking he was just upset. I think he is feeling the need to distinguish himself and give his life direction. I think he does want to be with his family, but some of this urgency comes from the entangling of his own unhappiness with his life in general. He hates his job and landed in his current field by circumstance. He is good at what he does but he doesn't feel fulfilled by it. He has never had friends because he just doesnt let people near him. However, he is super charming and people love him. He just, never has an interest in pursuing that relationship. He also has a very creative mind but is not driven to create. I have asked him to figure out what he would love to do and no answer comes of it. He looks at my life and I have many friends, I got the job I wanted, and I am an artist- i think he feels like he isnt measuring up in some sense and has nothing to show for himself. Its a maddening idea because no one gave me an awesome job as is- I have worked for almost a decade in school and on my own to get to the point where I could do what I loved and get paid. I have earned everything I have and as much as I love him, he is charming, sweet, funny...he has not fought to earn what he wants out of life. He lived at home until he married me. I can see how he may have missed out on creating independence for himself and the lessons that entails. I can see how the grass may look greener over there. I reiterate, I know he really wants to be with his brother- but the urgency and depression that follows- I think you ladies are right. And I do think that even if I agree to move, these issues need to be addressed. But, it wont be easy....and Ralitsa, I might need to take you up on that slap then.

Donna, his brother is only 8. There is a large age difference between them and think that is why he is so attached, he spent all his time helping to raise this child before I came along. I suggested a counselor but he wasnt pleased with it and doesn't want to go. I didn't press it. No, he hasnt CD'ed for me in a very long time. He did dress up Halloween and looked lovely, but just for me- more than a year?

If not, well, one reason some get married is that they've found someone to complete them. If it is only his parents/brother that can fill that apparent void, then cut him loose. Your not happy, he's not happy, and you aren't going to be happy until he can commit wholly to you.

That is the hard part. My family even says that now that we are married, he is my family and vice-versa. But I think he is torn right now.

Anita, you hit the nail on the head. When I have gotten upset lately it is that very reason. Yes, the problem itself is difficult, but the fact that I don't feel like we are approaching it together is what ends up infuriating me. I have the mind that any problem can be overcome if only we have a constant which we both can agree on. I guess I need to find my EG. I find that I get easily depressed when he is, and that doesn't help anyone. I have to try to stay strong and rational.

Melissa, the weird thing is that he finds no comfort when I tell him I will do what I can to ensure he can go see them. He made up his mind that he has to be there, all the time, and no alternative serves him. I dont want to move. At all. However, it's not easy to think it's over. I don't want to accept that because *I* am happy when he is with me. Thinking about it, i think he feels stuck and thinks that going home is the answer to everything.

[Ralitsa]

Hi Dolores,
so it sounds to me like you have a pretty good understanding of the problem, and that of course is the first step to getting to the solution. Do you think that he also has a good understanding of why he is dissatisfied, or is he just projecting all his frustrations onto being away from "home"? Of course now he really should feel like home is where ever the 2 of you are living, and not the house he grew up in with his parents. I really agree with you, moving back where his parents live is NOT the right answer for your relationship, regardless of other personal and professional preferences.
I think that he just has a lot of growing up to do. He needs to put on his big girl panties and get on with life. Until he takes control of the direction his life is going he won't be happy, but the first thing he needs to do is own the problem. Until he does that nobody can help him.
It is a really tough position for you, who has worked so hard and to get where you are. It seems like you are the responsible, mature one in the family so maybe he also feels a little intimidated by that. Well all I can say again is don't give up yet, and don't give in either. I'm sure it's going to be a hard struggle. But if you guys can work it out you will both be much better off, and even if you don't at least you will know that you gave it everything you had. Whoever said that marriage is a 50/50 deal is way wrong, it's a 100/100 problem. Both parties need to be willing to sacrifice 100%, and now it's your turn but if I know anything about life he will have some opportunities to sacrifice as well.
So you can't fix him, and you can't change him, and you can't make him see how immature he is being. But you can give him a good example of what a committed spouse is supposed to do and hope he catches on. And if he doesn't, the dope slap offer still stands.....

[KimberlyS]

Dolores, just hoping things are going better for you.

Huggs

[Davita]

Dolores,
Why again did you marry him? Make him give you all those reasons again. Not just tell you, but be that person again.

As for moving back home? Nope unless you're going to let his family fix him -- like they did it before....

Call me cold, but you are worth investing in and just should not be devalued. Someone said "team" Yeah, marriage is a team and I'm not hearing that in what you're saying. I'm hearing you're not a full partner because you're the one making all the sacrifices.

[Dolores(GG)]

Hey girls,

Its been a bit- I don't always get a lot of time at home...

Ralitsa, Kimberly, Davita, thank you for your responses. An update: We spoke about it one day a bit after these posts and he told me he was just going through a hard time and didn't want to discuss it further until he felt he had settled down emotionally. I guess that's good, maybe he will settle a bit to think clearer. I can tell he has tried to not be depressed and has been in a good mood around me- I appreciate it. I don't know- I just wanted to pop in. I think that everything is ok for the moment. Time will tell.

Hugs to all!

[Anthony Simon]

Thanks for the update, Dolores.

...he told me he was just going through a hard time and didn't want to discuss it further until he felt he had settled down emotionally.

My instinct says that's pretty good. I mean he's in some sort of mourning process that he says is going to end sometime. That does suggest coming to terms with the fact his parents and brother are living elsewhere - and that he's not.