Been trying for a week now to word this.... (Strong Topic)

[Shannon]

Sometimes I get a little (or a lot bothered) by things that are said about me, and for that matter not said about me on this forum.... Some times I blurt out stuff I shouldn't so I have been holding off for a while trying to make a clear statement that presents my side without anger or indignation....

So here goes.....

In a post in the SO section the following statements where made about me..

Quote:
When the dressing becomes an integral part of your love life.


Thanks Amber for mentioning that. You hit the nail right on the head for me.

That is the main reason I sometimes can't deal with it and wish it would go away.

and

I agree with what you said Kathy about "most women are not getting pleaure from this". The CDer is definately having all the "fun". They can spend hours fixing themselves up which makes them happy. I have nothing against that but I feel it's his thing not mine.

Since the only time Shannon dresses is to have sex, I would rather be left out of it but I'm forced to participate which in turn I get defensive and really start to dislike it...

and this one

but when it turns sexual is what I don't really like. All I can do is grin and bear it because it makes him happy...

These statements above really bother me..... and the responses from others that followed bother me..

Oh Sharon, that's just not right! What about Sharons feelings? You deserve a sex life that is rich and full too. Hope you two have a compromise where you get intimate time with 'him' also.

and this one

but have you and Shannon set boundaries for her dressing

Why does these bother me???? Maybe some can relate to why they would bother me but I am sure some can't... like the person the wrote the first 3 of them... so I will attempt to explain.

The first comment.... "integral part of our sex life"..... Our sex life is TOTALLY at the discretion of my SO.... it is there when she wants it and is NEVER forced on her, I repeat NEVER. I often, very often, want to have intimacy with my wife, dressed and not dressed (more often the case, since I dress little, because of comments she makes here about it). I go out of my way to pleasure my wife, it is the most important thing to me during sex and more importantly during LIFE.

Also just FYI, the last time I dressed, SHE made it clear we would have sex.

The words "I sometimes can't deal with it..." really hurt. I never force my wife to "deal with it"..... that is just so unjust to me.

The comment "Since the only time Shannon dresses is to have sex, I would rather be left out of it but I'm forced to participate which in turn I get defensive and really start to dislike it... "... boy that one REALLY hurts, see my comments above...

"FORCED TO PARTICIPATE"??????? As I said above.... NEVER.

"GRIN AND BEAR IT"..... GOD.... that is just so MEAN.... I have never implied or desired compliance from my wife with anything I desire. I go to the opposite extream... she wants something I go out of my way to make sure it happens

The comments made by others bother me to a much lesser degree, but still so few, if anybody here has a clue about me.

I STARTED this forum. It was my desire and work and money that made it happen. Not Sharon(SO) or Beauty. It was my desire to have a friendly place for CD's and SO's to learn about CD'ing in as many ways as possible and maybe grow for the better in the process.

It is my desire to keep this forum exactly as it was, in spirit and tone, as it was when it began with just a few wandering souls....

It is my desire to have the forum open, honest, RESPECTFUL and POLITE in all ways.

Specifically, this statement "Oh Sharon, that's just not right! " hurts because it implies that I am just another ignorant, selfish male with no concern for anybody but myself..... if anybody here knew anything about me, it would be obvious that I am not such....

But I guess, when all you ever read about me is stuff similar to what was stated above, I can see how that image might come across....

"Set boudries...."... that was done a long time ago, I have held steadfastly to EVERY boundry ever set....

I apologize for the tone and the references to sex, I hope nobody was offended.....

But as others here sometimes feel the need to vent, so do I, and more importantly I feel the need to defend myself.

But there is good that resulted from the above statements being made about me....

It is now CRYSTAL CLEAR to me that there is NO point for me to ever crossdress again. I am cured.

Thank you God.

[Gelinda]

Shannon:

I can see how you would be upset and feel your pain. I am so afraid that is the way it is going to be in my world once my two homes merge again.

But in the times that I was deep in the closet an attempted to destroy Gelinda from myself, it did not work at all. It only made me a worse person to be around and put a wedge between my wife and my self that she knew nothing about.

If this is anything I can do to help please let me know. Gelinda.

[Shannon]

Thank you for the concern, understanding and comments Gelinda... much appreciated....

And to add a little more.... something that has been bothering me for a while now.... One thing I have gotten from this forum is the feeling from my wife that I am not a "correct CD".... I am not what other CD's are....

I am not like NAME WITHELD, I am not like NAME WITHELD...... I am not as good as they are....... I do things wrong, my wishes, feeling and desires are not like NAME WITHELD or NAME WITHELD or NAME WITHELD, I am wrong

Before I just thought I was not right as a MAN now I also get to feel that I am not right as a CD....

Damn, sounds like time to start another forum....

www.not_good_enough_to_be_anything-forum.com

Look for it in an Internet near you....

[Loretta Ann]

It is now CRYSTAL CLEAR to me that there is NO point for me to ever crossdress again. I am cured.

Thank you God.

Wow Shannon, you suddenly drop that statement in our lap with no explanation as to how it has occurred?

I for one know very little about you due to the fact that you do not participate a lot in the forum, in the way of posting. And you obviously have your reasons for that, I am not attempting to be critical of you here.

Any posts that I have seen by you seem to present that you are very considerate towards your wife. Perhaps it has more to do with where Sharon is (personally) at with this thing?

I have felt that you may have been repressing this side of yourself. I have assumed that some of those who have made comments about you in the past know you better than the rest of us and I have reserved forming an opinion on this until I heard more from you on this subject.

I can not say that there is not a sexual side to cross-dressing. For many years it was the prominent factor in my cross-dressing, and still is there but just not as strong as I age. I believe that it needs to be accepted as part and parcel of the package of a cross-dresser. As there was nothing I could do to change it.

Many supportive SO's here do not lay claim to enjoying it the same as we do, and hence can not understand it. For them I would think that participating in something that brings very little to no added pleasure, with their partner is bound to have some repercussions. I also believe that for many that is part and parcel of the package of being married to a cross-dresser.

I also believe that those who are able to (successfully) work through this will become better people for it in the end. Life seems to be full of these kind of trials, and perhaps some of us have just been called to go through this particular event in our lives, perhaps this is for some reason that we are presently unaware of.

I am glad you were able to post your feelings about this and want you to know that I am not aspiring to sit in judgment of ether you or your wife on this issue. I have just put my thoughts here for consideration. I think you did a fine job of appropriately, presenting yourself in your post here.

Again thank you for this forum.
Love Darlene.

PS. I have added this because I did not see your second post untill after I posted mine.

And to add a little more.... something that has been bothering me for a while now.... One thing I have gotten from this forum is the feeling from my wife that I am not a "correct CD".... I am not what other CD's are....
I am not like NAME WITHELD, I am not like NAME WITHELD...... I am not as good as they are....... I do things wrong, my wishes, feeling and desires are not like NAME WITHELD or NAME WITHELD or NAME WITHELD, I am wrong

Don't buy into that stuff, Be yourself. You also don't look like those other people, and would not have the gifts you have to offer, (if you were like those other people). You were not created to be like them. And that is simply not your place, there would be no peace for you there.

That does not mean that you won't continue to change. You will not likely be the same person 5 or 10 years from now, but some SOs find that threatening too.

[Shannon]

It is now CRYSTAL CLEAR to me that there is NO point for me to ever crossdress again. I am cured.

Thank you God.

Wow Shannon, you suddenly drop that statement in our lap with no explanation as to how it has occurred?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Darlene, I appreciate that....

As to your comment above, I quess I didn't really carify that very well. The statement comes from what I expresses above..... CD'ing is just not worth all the negative stuff that results from it. If I have to continue to see things like this said about me and be made to feel I make my wife's life a series of "grin and bear it's" and "being forced to participate" in stuff she doesn't care for..... It just isn't worth it to me.

I jest about the cure, just saying that one evil is being outweighed by another evil.

[Terri(SO)]

Shannon, I am sorry you are feeling this way. I read Sharon(SO)'s comments and thought, ok, I feel that way sometimes too, but I see it from your side now too, it sounds very harsh. I also feel that dressing is Maria's thing and I participate to make him happy. I could easily not do it. There are even times when I force myself to "get through it".

But when I say that I'm not saying he does not satisfy me, not at all!

I hope I don't speak too freely about a private issue here but because he knows I prefer his male presentation in the bedroom he always gives me what he knows I need first, then we begin the dressing ritual. That ritual takes a long time, the choosing of clothes, dressing, makeup, hair, pictures. It can sometimes be tedious for someone sitting by on the side, we really don't feel what you do when you're dressing. I love him and I do it to please him but it takes a long time and it really is for him, its what makes him happy. I'll say again, I do it for him because I know it makes him happy and because he makes me happy I want to do what does it for him in return.

[Loretta Ann]

If I have to continue to see things like this said about me and be made to feel I make my wife's life a series of "grin and bear it's" and "being forced to participate" in stuff she doesn't care for..... It just isn't worth it to me.

Well I suspect that will eventually need to be weighed by how long you can grin and bear your life without being able to be who you are Shannon. This is tough $hit you are going through, and I do not want to imply that it is easy.

I do hope you and your wife will find the answers you need to give you both the peace you need to have over this issue. The very reason that you started this forum leads me to believe that you will find that peace.

One comment I will make however is that (I believe you are right) ether being forced or attempting to force oneself into a mold that doesn't fit who you are, doesn't sound like it is very constructive. And IMO will not bring about the desired results.

Love Darlene.

Terri

I'll say again, I do it for him because I know it makes him happy and because he makes me happy I want to do what does it for him in return.

I think that is the way it should be, and I commend you for that.

Love Darlene.

[Elizabeth]

Hi Shannon,

I am very sorry that you are feeling so upset and rejected right now. I know those are not your words, but that is what I am hearing. Many times as human beings, our need to express ourselves transends our ablity to do so in a way as to not hurt our loved ones.

I do remember reading those posts and thinking to myself, they must have a really good marriage. I thought that because It appeared to me that Sharon was saying what she really felt, even though most DH's would be hurt by such words. At least I would have been. I felt it meant that you two had really discussed each others feelings and had accepted them as a truism.

While I don't want to play down how you are feeling right now, there are many of us who have been called worse. I was told I was "sickening", "a pervert", "you make me physically ill". etc, etc. So I do understand your pain. When we are belittled, or made fun of by our loved ones, it hurts us in a way that others can not hurt us.

I don't beleive the non-crossdresser can possibly understand the guilt, shame, and sense of being defective that society puts on us. Or how one misplaced comment can bring to bear all those feelings of being inadequit, in one instant. It is the one thing that always brings me to silence. The absolute inability to defend myself. I don't understand the need, so I don't know how to defend myself. Society has convinced me my feelings are indefensible.

But having said all that, we are talking about perception. And while I am not trying to minimize in any way the hurt you are feeling, I would like to point out as a person outside looking in, that Sharon does not come off like she is displeased with you overall. From what she writes, she comes across to me that she is very much in love with you. And that your dressing is such a small part of her life now, she agrees to what you want because she has a strong desire to make you happy. That she openly chooses to do these things that are far more pleasurable to you than her, because she wants to please you.

So when I see posts like the ones you quoted, I put them in context with all the other things she says about you also. And it is obvious, at least to me, that she holds you in the highest regard. As do I.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[DonnaT]

Wow Shannon, I see a typical issue many of us CDers have with our SO.

Confusion. One day we hear one thing and the next it is totally opposite.

Don't get me wrong, I love buying things for Shannon, picking out things for him to wear, helping with makeup and hair and then cuddling up to watch a movie when he's dressed

In your case, you see the above statement, which sound like a nice relaxing intimate evening, followed by:

but when it turns sexual is what I don't really like. All I can do is grin and bear it because it makes him happy...

Sharon appears happy and content, until it comes to the sexual aspect. But you do not appear to have been aware of that issue.

After a few months of counseling, we started to talk more openly about his Cding which we could never do before. . . .

I was finally ready to accept this part of his life and he was more then happy to let me in. I realized that once this happened, our relationship improved tremendously.

The counseling that we had did not involve his CDing. . . . But what we got out of it really helped a lot with the CDing issues. She taught us the right and wrong way to argue, how to communicate better, the right way to tell the other what is bothering you, lessons on honesty and trust and what is needed to make a good marriage.

Seems that at somepoint the communication has veered off course and she has not told you what was bothering her. Then to apparently read it without warning. I can understand being upset.

You took a week to calm down and make your post. Very commendable. You've vented and defended yourself pretty well, I think.

But, did you two talk about what was bothering you with respect to her comments?

And I do agree with Elizabeth:

it is obvious, at least to me, that she holds you in the highest regard.

It is also just as obvious that you hold her in the highest reagard.

Thanks you for this forum, as it has been very enlightening.

[Anita]

Shannon, I feel for you on this post. You have gotten some very good replies, too, which I like to see.

Specifically, I can really identify with feeling like I've given my best in a situation, only to find that it isn't seen that way by someone close to me. That hurts me, maybe more than it should. It is a common thing, but there was something about the family I grew up in that made me more sensitive to this.

Since my needs always seemed to be at odds with the other seven in my family, I had to learn early on to try to catch every little shade of meaning--I wanted to make sure that I was "keeping everyone happy," and "not making waves." To make it more difficult, my family didn't believe in expressing direct feelings. You were somehow just supposed to "know" what someone else expected. I guess I took great pride in thinking I could read everyone's mind--they sure weren't telling me anything!

And when someone said to me, "I don't care how much you intended to make me happy--this doesn't work for me." I would get really angry. It was like if my intention for them was good, then they should like what I had done! I have since come to see that this is not necessarily so, but there was a lot of pain in my relationships when I was stubborn about this.

I'm not saying this is what I see you doing--I just see a similiar feeling. "I go out of my way to do my best. Is it still not enough?"

I have gotten a lot better over the years at accepting that sometimes my "best" needs to be changed in some way, and that I can't always read minds. If that's what's going on with you, then I hope you can find some peace around this, too.

My hat is off to you and Sharon, dealing with some of your issues on a shared forum. I hope it is not at a high cost to the two of you, because I see that it helps others here when such things are discussed.

As for being compared to others--well, this is a mixed blessing of the Internet. On the "up" side, we get to see that we're not alone, and that many deal with the same things we do. On the "down" side is the comparisons as to HOW they do this. I don't see any easy way around this, either!

I REALLY appreciate this forum, Shannon. It's a wonderful creation that you set in motion, and I hope you don't feel like it's an ungrateful child that's turned on you.
A

[Virginia]

Shannon, first let me again reitereate!!! This forum has done more for a lot of us than will probably ever be known!!! I have posted on numerous occassions how much the knowledge, love and support has done for me! My life has been so blessed by my sisters here that it would take me another life time to try and repay their sensetivity, empathy, love and understanding, That being said..........................
I posed, what for Virginia, has been the bottom line question: What is so threating to an SO about crossdressing? I am still formulating all the responses that I got, but if I understand the substance of it all. Women (and it is not meant to offend anyone) women just don't understand it. Oh, they try, bless their hearts, some, I guess to me seem to go overboard in their attempts to live with it; accept it; even participate in it but it always seems to come back to the "roller coaster ride" syndrom and the fact that they just don't understand it (hell, I mostly wonder sometimes if we do.) One SO who will go nameless was telling how she struggled with it but over all seemed to be empathic, loving and accepting, then in the course of a long conversation stated that sometimes when she sees him dressed, "it breaks my heart."
I am I guess what some of you would describe as a "newbie" and it is like why would you wear a bra without forms while en drab??? Well why would you (crossdresser) want to bring that part of us into the bedroom???
Knowing what I know and have read on the forum and in books and the fact that women just don't get it - why would we want to "force" a (how do I say this diplomatically?) - what the heck! force a lesbian act on our wife!
They have enough trouble with us as it is - now we put this "pressure" on them??? Just does not seem fair! But you say, she said it was OK or she invited (my alter-ego) into the bedroom - Yes maybe she did, but why???? I would venture a guess that in 99.9% of the time it was because she loves you and it trying her best to make you happy. It is very unlikely that it is something that she wants.
Sorry, hope I did not offend anyone, I done!!!
Virginia

[Honey(SO)]

Shannon,
While I do feel bad that your feelings are hurt by a statement that was made here by me I am not going to apologise for it.
I was making a response to another SO ,who happened to be your wife. I stand by my statement.

Why have a SO area if we cannot speak our feelings? It is supposed to be an area to support each other in our journey with our CD partners.

Read the rest of my response after Oh Sharon that's just not right. can 't you see that my words can apply to you both?
No one thinks you are 'just another ignorant, selfish male with no concern for anybody but myself.....' If that were true this forum would not be here.

It is hard to be on a mixed forum since you just dont know how your words will be taken. I am sorry that your feelings were hurt by mine.

Honey (SO)

[Shannon]

Shannon,
While I do feel bad that your feelings are hurt by a statement that was made here by me I am not going to apologise for it.
I was making a response to another SO ,who happened to be your wife. I stand by my statement.

Believe me I am not at all upset by your comments in particular Honey(SO)..... I am however surprise and hurt by my impression that when ever an SO here says anything, it is taken as Gospel.... there is no doubt that the CD is wrong and the SO is right..... The CD is immediately considered to be wrong. Is that not the tone you set in your reply to Sharon(SO)'s post?????

You state

Why have a SO area if we cannot speak our feelings? It is supposed to be an area to support each other in our journey with our CD partners.

Did you notice that I did not intrude on your SO section? Since I am an admistrator here, since I run the forum, since I pay for the hosting, since I created this forum, I certainly have the ability to post where ever I want to... but I desired to have an SO ONLY area and I will defend that forever.... But just as you have the right to say what you feel in that area I also have the right to responde to what is said there... In the areas I am allowed to speak in....

I do not desire to have an apology from you... you are MORE than welcome to say what you think and feel... actually it is much appreciated.

I just wish SO's would feel the same about what CD's might say....

Yes we are the ones with the problem... yes you SO's are the ones trying to accept us and be there for us... yes this is all our (the CD's) fault.....

We have ruined your lives, we get reminded of that every day and and have to live with it....

[Shannon]

Let me just add one thing here.... I got the feeling that this one concept was missing and I wanted to make sure it was clear....

I have a tremendous overwhelming intense feeling of love for my wife. She is the BEST thing that has ever happened to me....

Second only to the great friends I have made here.....

No ill will is ment for anybody... I just once in a blue moon desire for people to know who and what I am....

[Celia]

I guess this is why I only occasionally peruse A Place for Wives and SO's. It can be pretty enlightening, but it can also be (unintentionally) provocative. And when someone says something there that could press a CD's buttons, direct response is awkward (to put it mildly), owing to the read-only nature of the group for people who aren't SO's. If we wish to say anything at all, we might come to Do you know how I feel?, but it seems as though we're trying to carry on a discussion with someone through the outer wall of a building. Many of the people in A Place for Wives and SO's I practically never see in A Place for Togetherness - For CD's and SO's (Jean's recent threads notwithstanding), let alone other parts of the forum. I suppose I can't speak for other CD's, but if I visit a place where I literally can't speak and a considerable number of those who can express an unmistakable discomfort over coexisting with people like me . . . well, suffice it to say my visits are brief and infrequent.

-Celia