A question for CDers with SOs.....

[ShamrockFaerie(SO)]

You all know the crap I've been going through with my husband's dishonesty, but this post is not about that.... It's about ME and how I can deal with something I'm feeling.

This is hard to explain, and maybe some of the other SOs will understand it better than some of the CDers, but I really need advice from the Cders on what exactly I should ask for from my husband.

I'm starting to worry about my own femininity. I worry that my husband is only attracted to me because he admires my womanly shape and wants to emulate me. I worry that his fixation on my breasts and butt might just be that he wants ones like I have for himself. And I worry that if he gets breastforms or butt padding that he won't need me anymore. I also worry that Jennifer will turn out to be more of a rival for Joe's attention than a girlfriend for me. I do also worry that my manly husband will eventually disappear and we won't be able to watch football or NASCAR together anymore (two things that I truly enjoy despite being a woman). So far, Jennifer seems to be attracted to me sexually, but I am afraid that when she starts "coming out" more that might change. Yes, I'm worried that my husband's sexuality might change over time (I know this is irrational, but it's a very real concern) or that he might decide that he wants to present as a woman all the time, leaving me in a lesbian relationship. Not that I have that much of a problem with that, except that lesbian relationships carry with them a certain element of competition and jealousy (I am speaking from experience here) that is generally missing from heterosexual relationships. In fact, it was that very reason that caused me to seek life partnership with a man instead of a woman. I'm worried that those feelings of competition and jealousy will eat away at my self confidence.

So I guess my questions for the CDers on the board are.... And try to answer as your "male" selves in all their chauvanistic glory ..... What physical traits do you appreciate most about your SOs and why? Are you still sexually attracted to your SO, or has it become more of an emotional bond? Do you ever feel yourselves competing with your SO to see who can look "hotter"? Do you do anything to "stroke" your partner's ego? Are there any things that you do to ensure that she feels sexy and desireable, and if so, what are they?

I know that's alot..... But if I expect my husband to be honest with me about his fears and insecurities, I think it's only fair if I do the same. So I'd like to talk with him about what I'm afraid of, but I'm not sure what I'd be asking for in the way of reassurance. So any help you guys can give would be GREATLY appreciated.

[Absaroka]

All great questions.

First off, these are answers for me. Your husband is a different person from me. I can only explain myself, and as is often pointed out here there is a vast continuum here and often we are talking about 2 very different things- trans sexuality and crossdressing.

I apologize in advance for repeating myself here.

First off, after 21 years of marriage, 2 kids, death of parents, and a variety of other profound shared life experiences, the emotional bond is far stronger than the sexual one. Which I think is as it should be, no matter how strong the sexual attraction. At this point I think of my wife as a best friend who I sleep with.

The qualities that attracted me to her for the most part had nothing to do with my crossdressing except that she had a certain open mindedness about a great many things. She is not my sexual fantasy and if I ever did meet my sexual fantasy I would run screaming and terrified in the other direction. The times I have met women who were sort of like my fantasys I did not like them-they were scary and violent. One had a real problem with weapons.

After a long time married people sometimes do start to look like each other a bit. We share some of the same tastes in clothes and how we present ourselves generally. Part of this is just mutual admiration and influence.

How do I reassure her? In a myriad of small ways. Currently her father is dying and she is very stressed out about this. Often my support takes the place of mundane tasks like doing the dishes and laundry more often or driving the kids around more, so that she has fewer little things to nag at her. For some women this might not seem like much, but to my wife it's a big deal. DOing the dishes can be simply picking up after yourself (after all I ate the food didn't I?) but it can also be a way of saying I love you.

And then I listen. Sometimes I bring stuff up, since my parents died a while ago and I'm sort of aware of hidden feelings that gnaw at you about this stuff. I've made it clear that my plans are secondary to her needs at this point, in particular to her needs to be a thousand miles away with her parents rather than with me and the kids at any given moment.

You probably felt a bunch of this stuff during your first pregnancy. I guess I brought this up because you have to consider the marriage in it's entirety. How has him being out wtih his cding affected everything else? Is he trying to be nicer in other areas? Is he withdrawing in other areas?

Onto the cding and honesty and that sort of stuff. Tiffany you may wind up losing some respect for me here, but the truth is the truth.

CDing was a sort of now and then back ground issue for me for most of my life. As a kid I liked to wear my moms lingerie. As an adult I liked to masturbate with my girlfriends slip. I didn't say much about this although there was one girlfriend I was very close to who I told about this. She was okay with it, mostly wanted reassurance that I wasn't gay or a pervert.

Well finally I started dating my wife. What I had read about this at that point consisted of one article once, which said that if your wife is understanding then tell her. If she is not then don't tell her and forever keep it a secret because you will lose her if you tell her because so many people think of this as being on par with pedophilia and necrophilia. I read that article in the mid 70's.

Well my wife seemed pretty open. She had a lot of gay friends who did drag and talked about how I would look cute in her nightgown. So one day I put on her nightgown ( a long flannel affair) and she thought it was pretty funny. I figured I had it made, I could tell her what little there was to tell. But she also seemed really uncomfortable about this. So I didn't.

I should mention that we always shared non gender specific clothes-socks, teeshirts, sweats and stuff. It was always fine and kind of nice.

We got married. After a while the dishonesty began to bother me, plus I figured we were married so she wasn't going to leave me. So I told her most of what little there was to tell.

She seemed pretty unhappy about this. She wanted reassurance that I was not gay, like all her gay friends who do drag. And she picked up on something else that doesn't get talked about much here.

This all started for me when I was about 8, the same time it starts for a lot of men. And progressed to masturbatory fantasies in my late teens. To her it all seemed childish. What the hell, she married a man, not a boy.

Over the years we would discuss it briefly once in a while. There wasn't much to talk about and what little there was had to do with her annoyance about me wearing her stuff and doing things like putting a run in her panty hose or leaving skid marks on her panties.

Fast forward to a couple of years ago. One day for no reason I decided to finally buy a piece of my own lingerie. It was easy to do and easy to say nothing about. By then I was working out of my home alone all day. Soon I had a whole wardrobe. About that time I started coming here.

I've told two people all about this in f2f life. My therapist and my sponsor in my 12 step group (I've been clean and sober for almost 25 years now) both people you are supposed to tell all the stuff you were going to take to the grave. Both had some really interesting perspectives on it.

I told them a lot about my wifes reactions, and the small attempts I have made to bring it up. They both know my wife. My therapist has met with my wife privately and for all I know she and he have discussed this. But he certanly isn't going to repeat anything she said to him to me.

Both of them agree that my wifes reaction has been one of don't ask don't tell and that she probably doesn't want to hear about this.

She is the one person I really regret keeping this from. It's no one elses business really.

I am a secretive person. Most drug addicts are. For so long my mantra about everything was "noone will know" most of all, noone will know who I really am. CDing was just one more thing for people not to know.

I suspect that if I told my wife all (not now when she has so much else on her plate) her reaction would be mainly that I should not borrow her clothes without her permission, I should not do stuff that would influence how her friends would feel about us or upset the children (interestingly our oldest likes to dress up one of her male friends and my wife finds this to be a non event) and that I had better not expect her to do my femme laundry. In other words don't impose on her with it. She'd probably ask a few times about do I want to be a woman but again after 21 years of marriage she knows the answer to that. I don't want to be a woman, but sometimes I want to be either a little boy or a rebellious teenager again. And that's what would give her trouble.

Theres really two reasons I haven't told my wife everything. One is that I'm not sure how she would feel. Would she be angry at the mistrust I showed in not telling her? Would she be annoyed about the whole thing? Would she ask why didn't I do the dishes instead of going to this forum? Would she ( quite likely) accuse me of once more bringing up an issue that was all about me and demanding that she deal with it? Don't I realize that after a hard day at work she just doesn't have the energy to listen to yet another one of my issues, especially one that's so silly?

The 2nd is that I don't know how well I would handle her knowing. Not only would I be afraid of how she might secretly be feeling, but also part of the fun for me in this is the secrecy.

Years ago I shared my 4th step inventory with her. Thats the part of a 12 step program where you write down and tell someone (in my case my sponsor) all the negatives about yourself that you would like to be rid of ( we call them defects of character) She saw no surprises, she knew them all from first hand experience and knew about all the important harms I had done to others. She was fine with it. I was absolutely unable to handle the fact that she knew and was fine. Eventually it was all resolved.

I like to think if she asked me directly I would tell her. Or at least tell her that I didn't want to tell her.

Every now and then I drop a hint. A couple of weeks ago I brought up a funny story about when I used to drink and I woke up one morning wearing only a womans slip and no memory of putting it on. She thought it was amusing and smiled. Then she asked me was it my mothers and I said yes. Ruined all the mystery of it all....... A week later I was taking a nap one afternoon and she took off her dress to change into her walking clothes. She put it on the bed next to me and then said "don't do anything wierd with my dress while I'm on my walk" I said okay and that was it.

Another time all my underwear was dirty. So I borrowed her panties and let her know. She was fine with this and I think to her the most important thing about it was the fact that they were too small for me, thus proving something.

So whats the point of all this? I guess what I'm trying to say is that for me this is only about clothes and sex. I'm 54 and can finally say "it's only sex" with a straight face. I figure that someday when I do tell her more I'll figure out a way to get her to accept that even though we have given each other power of attorney and can tell the doctor to pull the plug if the other one is a vegetable someday (hows that for trust?) still somethings are just hard to share. Which she already knows about me.

Try to be patient with all this. After all you have the rest of your lives to work this out.

Absaroka

[Carol Ann]

Well first of all I have followed your post from the beginning and have never answer because I don't agree with you on a lot of your view points, I really think you are beating yourself to death over nothing. I have been happily married going on 45 years in Nov. we have had 4 children and like all married people we have had our ups and downs.

Is my wife upset or jealous of me when I dress?, hell no because she knows she is the real thing, in fact I must pass her inspection everyday when I dress so I am proper. Dress my age, no slut or teenie bopper dressing.

Hell my wife enjoys Carol Ann but she also knows I have to get undressed and be her man again.
Look dressing up for me is NOT sex, it's just me and who I am nothing more.

Look my wife and her sister used to dress me up when we were first married and we would go out together and it was a fun thing to do. Now I will admit the sex was different and we both had a wonderful time.

TALK is your answer, even now my wife has rules for me and I respect her for that and I follow them as best I can. Look at my photo in the gallery, not bad for 68. The flowers my wife gave me for Valentines Day because she stills loves me.

Honey stop beating yourself up and worrying about things that haven't happen. Look my wife and I are still married and enjoying our retirement.

Live life to it's fullness as it's shorter then you think, be happy.

[DonnaT]

Tiffany, worrying about something that may never happen is a waste of time, is stressfull, and causes premature graying or worry lines.

The trick here is to let him know that if an issue comes up (like those you mentioned) you'll need to talk about it that day. And he should be ready to discuss anything, anything, with you. No putting it off, as all that does is increase to worry, and may even festure some anger.

When my wife has a problem, she usually keeps it inside, and it doesn't come out until she's good and angry. Don't do that to each other.

Now, on to your questions.

When I met my wife it was not a sexual attraction. It's really hard to explain, but think of it as love at first site. I've never been sexually attracted to anyone. And have only had that love at first site feeling twice. Once in 7th grade at age 12, and when I saw my wife to be at age 19.

As for sex, I love my wife and make love to her.

And there are no physical traits I appreciate over any other.

Nor do I compete with my wife to see who can look hotter. She accuses me of such competition, but really, I have no such desire. She is insecure, as a result of her childhood, so I know this is where her accusations come from. Plus I don't like "plain" clothes, and she doesn't go for the frillly lacy ruffled stuff. Her mother made a lot of her clothes when she was a kid, plus she got handmedowns from her younger sister who was bigger that she was. So she has issues with any borrowing I may do, so I don't. Heck, borrowed a watch once and she gave it to me instead of wearing it anymore. She borrrowed from me, however.

Do I do anything to stroke her ego. Sometimes, but apparently not enough. For some reason, I've never been the type to do that with anyone. And even though I know it, I''m still slow to do it.

So that also means, I don't do nearly enough to ensure that she feels sexy and desireable either. She's told me so.

I don't know how we've lasted 32 yrs together, other than there's a lot of love there.

[Kimberly Kael]

I see you're getting a variety of different viewpoints, but some of the themes should start to sound familiar. I'll happily give you my answers because I think I understand your concerns and empathize with your situation. Honestly, I think a lot of SOs have similar worries.

What physical traits do you appreciate most about your SOs and why?

I've always had trouble focusing on purely physical traits because I tend to get personality and attitude confused with everything else. I love Kiera's eyes and lips - they both seem to smile at me, even when I'm being (deservedly) scolded. I love holding on to her hips, whether I'm just following her somewhere or chasing her into the bedroom. I adore her sexy legs and delight in caressing her buttocks every chance I get. And yes, I'm every bit as fascinated with breasts as your average male. Hers are particularly enticing from my perspective, and I'll leave it at that. I love the smell of her hair, the warmth and softness of holding her in my arms ... I could go on and on.

I'm probably fascinated with feeling feminine because there's so much I find admirable about the feminine being to begin with - even though I realize I'll never manage more than a rough approximation.

Are you still sexually attracted to your SO, or has it become more of an emotional bond?

I find my wife very sexy and love the physical side of our relationship, but I wouldn't downplay the emotional bond and its importance, either.

Do you ever feel yourselves competing with your SO to see who can look "hotter"?

I don't think so. Certainly I do my best to manage a feminine appearance and "looking hot" is one of the more obvious approaches. I've never looked at it as a competition, though. It's one I'd lose by default if anyone is really paying attention. I think most people are far more critical appraising themselves and this is more likely the root cause of any insecurity on this front.

Do you do anything to "stroke" your partner's ego? Are there any things that you do to ensure that she feels sexy and desireable, and if so, what are they?

I do my very best to remind Kiera regularly of how much I adore her, how sexy she is, and how lucky I know I am to have her in my life. I think it's anyone's duty to keep letting their partner know how they feel - you shouldn't just assume "she knows because I've told her already." I do try to pay attention to her ups and downs and tone down my needs to pay attention to hers when she's feeling especially vulnerable, but I'd never put my own needs entirely "on hold" because it's important that I have a strong emotional base from which to be supportive.

As for all the other questions?

Your husband's cross-dressing is unrelated to his sexual orientation. Who he finds himself attracted to is not going to change just because he enjoys dressing up! As for deciding to go full time? Statistically, very few CDers do. You never know, but in general I think you'll find that being supportive and giving him the freedom to experiment will help him find his comfort level ... just so long as you don't exceed your own.

He'll never be half the woman you are, but with love and support he may feel like he's expressing and exploring his femininity to the fullest. I guarantee he'll love you all the more for having the opportunity to do so.

[ShamrockFaerie(SO)]

Thank you all for your kind words and reassurance.

My husband and I talked about ALOT of things last night, and he said he doesn't really KNOW alot about his desires for crossdressing..... That he's still exploring that side of himself and getting used to having a "partner in crime" as it were..... So he just promised to keep me in the loop of any changes or discoveries he made.

But he said he is certain that he loves me and finds me sexy. That he is not envious of my femininity, but rather that he admires it and wants to emulate it the best way he can. He loves my breasts and butt from a purely "male" perspective and he has always been and will continue to be aroused just by looking at me in the "right" light. Even when I was 9mos preggers with Devy he thought I was beautiful and was amazed at what my body could do. He also said that he is sure he is not TS or gay, and he can't forsee that changing in the future, no matter how much he dresses. He said "I'm friends with my penis. I like it. I like what it means and what is "stands" for (pun intended). I don't want to give it up." He also stated that he is SURE that no one, man or woman, could EVER compete with me or my beauty, and he certainly wouldn't ever try to be prettier than me because he would fail miserably. Incidentally, I've seen him made up, and I do not aggree with that assessment. I think Jennifer is incredibly beautiful. But that's probably my own insecurity. So that's that. There are very few things he said he was CERTAIN about, but they were the things I was worried about anyway.

Plus when we were done with the talk we had AMAZING husband and wife sex. Jennifer did not appear. He really made me feel like a woman and thank my lucky stars that I have such a wonderful, attentive, considerate lover as a husband. I'm a lucky woman.

[Lydia]

Hi Tiffany (aka Shamrock),

Your DH is the lucky one. He/she should thank his/her stars for you. Many a CD would give anything to have a spouse/SO like you.

BTW, I am fortunate enough to have an SO like you, and I shall do anything I can to keep her happy.

Hugs,

Lydia

[ShamrockFaerie(SO)]

Thank you Lydia..... That was sweet.

Hope everyone is having a good day!

-Tiffany

[Virginia]

Hi Tiffany,

You two have a very special relationship, that you can sit and talk, especially about something that could be so stressful on a lot of relationships! As you have seen, even in the short time that you have been on the forum, there are those whose spouse refuses to even accept the fact that she is married to a crossdresser and some that even refuse to talk about it!

It is still up to you to set the "boundaries" for Jennifer and you have that right, it's in the "instruction manual" on how to live with a crossdresser!

I think you know enough and have learned enough not to push Joe one way or the other, but just keep the communications open, and "baby steps" by both of you will do you both well!!!!

Not that you have solved all your "problems" - we just hope that you will stay around and share with us. We need input from GG's like yourself and you can truly post as a "been there done that" expert!!!! You will be able to help other GG's who come here seeking advice in dealing with this "gift" that their DH may have! There is a certain feeling of accomplishment when we are able to help someone else deal with something that they may not have a clue as to what to do! You are articulate and open and you're quite an asset to the forum.

Love you,

Virginia

[Carla L]

Tiffany,

I'm starting to worry about my own femininity.

Although my wife has the same fears, I try to reassure her they are unfounded. I desire her more having told her, as I don't have to hide it like I did. She has partially accepted me for my dressing, and I am continually trying to be accepted. Whenever she expresses fears of me not liking her or wanting not wanting her, I jump at the chance to comfort her concerns.

attracted to me sexually, but I am afraid that when she starts "coming out" more that might change.

If anything, I get charged up and want my wife more after I've spent some time dressed.

leaving me in a lesbian relationship.

Just this evening my wife expressed the same thought. I had read your post and recalled you expressed the same concern, so here I am answering. I do not want to 'become' a woman, I am content with my sexuality and only recently 'finally' accepted myself for who I am. I am a crossdresser, I am hetersexual.

What physical traits do you appreciate most about your SOs and why?

Breasts, because they are so gosh darn beautiful. Pubic mound and the smell of her. It turns me on.

sexually attacted

Absolutely. If anything, my coming out has enhanced my sexuality. I've become closer to my wife.

competing ... "hotter"?

I'll lose everytime, so I don't try to compete. I just do the best I can with what I have.

ego

I always mention something that looks good on her, not in a competing way, but she likes to hear about clothing that looks good on her. Daily we tell each other we love one another.

[Ann Stef]

My SO does not feel in competion on dress with me. I do compliment on her style of clothes and her latest fantasy, wigs. She is supportive of my dressing.

[Ann Stef]

We CD'ers do appreciate the the build of the woman body. We do feel that they have to go thru a lot to keep upo their appearance. WE lile to immitate their long rituals that they go thru., We still love our SO's but want to express our femm side. there is no competition with our SO's. I hope this helps somewhat.

[Chrissy Hunt]

My s/o has been made very insecure about my dressing and its one of the reasons i try not to do it very often.
from my point of view there is no intentional competion with my gf and i know for a fact i'd never look better than her once dressed up.
making her beleive this is another matter and the fact i dress femme seems to make her feel inadequate.
her other fear is that i would allow myself to be picked up by a man if femme because i have slight bi tendancies- truth of the matter is even if i did flirt i'd never be unfaithful.
pre-conceptions are horrible things, keep talking and i'm sure it will work out- it seems your off to a great start and hes lucky to have you x

[Bernice]

Shucks, my spouse and I had slept together every night for six weeks before what most people think of when they hear the word "sex". We'd been engaged for 17 months when we were finally married in 1976, and except that she was still only 20, she had a very good idea of what she was getting into. Her most attractive physical features? Her smile, her eyes, cute nose, pretty long hair, her feminine hands, and perhaps her legs.

Sure, sex was great when we were younger. We've both put on so much weight recently that sex isn't practical anymore, but I think I'd feel the same way even if I wasn't a crossdresser. We both really "let ourselves go". I guess that labels our bonds as primarily emotional, though I think of our marriage as being much more than mere emotion. We have 35 years of shared experiences!

I suspect I fall into the category of Non-Op TS. If I were suddenly a widower, that might change. As long as we both shall live, I am all hers. She has nothing to fear, or to be jealous of. It isn't the principle that makes me stay, though that should suffice. To borrow from Glenn Campbell, there'll never be another hunk of woman like my SO.

A few years ago I lost over 90 pounds, and for awhile she was envious of my dress size, and the clothes I could find and wear, but to the best of my knowledge, there was never any reason to be envious of my chest, or butt, or hips. Legs, maybe. But I never felt any competition or jealousy from her, nor from within.

Yes, she occasionally has self-esteem issues, and I take these seriously. I won't even let her joke about it. I don't think of this as stoking her ego. She is an awesome angel, and an efficient professional, and there's nothing phony about my admiration of her.

I never liked spectator sports, but she has developed a taste for baseball and basketball. I don't often watch those with her, but then, she doesn't care for racing (my only concession to spectator sports). There is still plenty of stuff we watch together, even if I am the one that gets all misty-eyed and has to have a facial tissue.

I really hope this is somehow helpful.

Bernice