http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... /anima.htm
hi guys. this site link hasent changed my desier to cross dress and it is not supposed to but helped me understand some of the why and helped me feel ok about being a cross dresser .HUGS ALL ROUND iv printed it out for my wife in the hopes of her becoming a little suportive. seya
may help you understand why
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Ian
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Michelle Miller
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Interesting, it's got a real "this is why you are the way you are and that's that" tone to it. If there's one thing I've managed to learn for myself in this life, it's that very few things are as black & white as we'd be led to believe.
Still though it's an interesting read.
Still though it's an interesting read.
-Michelle-
"Inside me, there's a thin girl, screaming to get out, but cookies & ice cream usually shut her right up."
"Inside me, there's a thin girl, screaming to get out, but cookies & ice cream usually shut her right up."
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Jessica North
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I definitely can validate much of this theory, as it relates to me. I definitely have "anima" and have been in the "mid-life crisis" portion of discovery. But, there wasn't much in the way of "new thoughts" here. It kind of falls in line to my own theory to-date.
I also agree that it is very matter-of-fact and black-and-white, and that this could never apply to all of us. We are way to complex for a single explanation, no matter how insightful.
Still, an interesting read... thanks for posting it!
Hugs,
Jessica
I also agree that it is very matter-of-fact and black-and-white, and that this could never apply to all of us. We are way to complex for a single explanation, no matter how insightful.
Still, an interesting read... thanks for posting it!
Hugs,
Jessica
I took a ride in this world, now I'm spinning for the rest of my life...
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Lydia
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Definition:
Suppose I decide to define this desire to wear female attire with a single word: "Slurb." We can then talk about our relative slurb levels - our slurbishness, if you will. Having slurb immediately explains your behavior, and psychologists can devise ways of dealing with it.
There was a young man in suburbia,
Whose manner of dress would disturbi-ya,
In panties of lace
and high heels to grace
He was a true sample of slurbia.
Hugs,
Lydia
I have a lot of trouble understanding that. This "anima" thing is not real. It is an arbitrary construct - a model, of sorts. By using the word, some psychologists endow it with a substantial reality. This mystical notion, the "anima", is supposed to explain something, but in fact it just hides any rational explanation. Indeed, it inhibits the attainment of a rational explanation. I find that the use of this idea is not only useless but potentially harmful.The Anima and Animus are in Carl Jung's school of analytical psychology, the unconscious or true inner self of an individual, as opposed to the persona or outer aspect of the personality. In the unconscious of the male, it finds expression as a feminine inner personality: anima; equivalently, in the unconscious of the female, it is expressed as a masculine inner personality: animus.
Suppose I decide to define this desire to wear female attire with a single word: "Slurb." We can then talk about our relative slurb levels - our slurbishness, if you will. Having slurb immediately explains your behavior, and psychologists can devise ways of dealing with it.
There was a young man in suburbia,
Whose manner of dress would disturbi-ya,
In panties of lace
and high heels to grace
He was a true sample of slurbia.
Hugs,
Lydia
"There comes a time ... when you must grasp the bull by the tail and face the situation."
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Ian
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http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... essays.htm
the jung feels right for me at the above link there are some other posable thoughts on the matter. ofcourse i agree no one modle is going to fit all of us and mabe bits of difrent modles mix to gether .I reaching fo anything at the moment the depretion is getting the better of me again .I dont think its the cross dressing, just child hood stuff and the cloathing was the trigger this time round .luv and hugs. seya
the jung feels right for me at the above link there are some other posable thoughts on the matter. ofcourse i agree no one modle is going to fit all of us and mabe bits of difrent modles mix to gether .I reaching fo anything at the moment the depretion is getting the better of me again .I dont think its the cross dressing, just child hood stuff and the cloathing was the trigger this time round .luv and hugs. seya
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Elizabeth
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Hey girls,
The author of that page, Cathy Anderson, is a member of this forum, although I have not seen her post in many years. I know there was a time when her page said she was no longer crossdressing, however I have noticed her page no longer says that, leaving me to wonder if perhaps she has realized this is the gift that keeps on giving.
While I must concede I am a "Jungian" and do believe there is something to this whole anima/animus thing, I am not so sure I subscribe to her interpretation of it. But having said that, I do feel the article is useful in helping people find their identity. I remember finding some strength in the words on those pages at a time when I desperately needed to find some meaning.
Love always,
Elizabeth
The author of that page, Cathy Anderson, is a member of this forum, although I have not seen her post in many years. I know there was a time when her page said she was no longer crossdressing, however I have noticed her page no longer says that, leaving me to wonder if perhaps she has realized this is the gift that keeps on giving.
While I must concede I am a "Jungian" and do believe there is something to this whole anima/animus thing, I am not so sure I subscribe to her interpretation of it. But having said that, I do feel the article is useful in helping people find their identity. I remember finding some strength in the words on those pages at a time when I desperately needed to find some meaning.
Love always,
Elizabeth
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CJ
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Hi all,
It's a complicated thing, this notion of "anima" (or "animus"). Remember that, as Lydia suggested, they're not real things, i.e., don't make the mistake of "reifying" them. They're symbolic concepts, nothing more. It would be too simple to see the anima as just "the woman within." Jung would say that we crossdressers are unindividuated men who are possessed by our anima, who have yet (or have failed) to integrate our anima.
For those of you that are more visually oriented, here's a graphic representation of what Jungians believe is going on:
Anima and Animus
Hope this helps.
Love,
CJ
It's a complicated thing, this notion of "anima" (or "animus"). Remember that, as Lydia suggested, they're not real things, i.e., don't make the mistake of "reifying" them. They're symbolic concepts, nothing more. It would be too simple to see the anima as just "the woman within." Jung would say that we crossdressers are unindividuated men who are possessed by our anima, who have yet (or have failed) to integrate our anima.
For those of you that are more visually oriented, here's a graphic representation of what Jungians believe is going on:
Anima and Animus
Hope this helps.
Love,
CJ
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Lydia
- We Will Never Forget You - Rest in Peace
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Jeannie
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Now I'm really confused!
Hey ladies
This is getting way too existential for this reporter. Slurbia,anima and Jungian? Is nebulism a word? I had to go reference my "Heideger for dummies" book.
I do have a poem for you Lydia:
There once was a man from Nantucket
Oh! Sorry! Wrong one! Hugs ladies.
Love
Auntie Jeannie
This is getting way too existential for this reporter. Slurbia,anima and Jungian? Is nebulism a word? I had to go reference my "Heideger for dummies" book.
I do have a poem for you Lydia:
There once was a man from Nantucket
Oh! Sorry! Wrong one! Hugs ladies.
Love
Auntie Jeannie
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Lydia
- We Will Never Forget You - Rest in Peace
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CJ
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Heh. Our Keeper of the Psychobabble Gates strikes again! 
Just remember, Lydia, one man's psychobabble is another man's gospel.
I'm of two minds about this whole notion of the unconscious (and therein lies a pun, no doubt!), and even more so about some "collective" unconscious. On the one hand, it is, indeed (to me), pure psychobabble--unintelligible "mental fairy" jargon for which there is not a single shred of evidence. I want to say, "brains make minds, period." Emotions, feelings, sentiments, wishes, dreams, intentional stances, thoughts, and even rational discourse are all things that are produced in, and by, the brain. How? Who really knows? Yet. And I'm sure an army of white lab coats are working on this. Still, on the other hand, like many concepts human beings come up with, I find some Jungian models that ostensibly explain some features of human behaviour to be, well, useful... in some ways.
In some cultures, history is seen as being linear, with some end or goal, while, in others, it's considered cyclical, like a great wheel. History is neither. But looking at it from this or that viewpoint sometimes helps us structure our understanding of our place in the Great Ocean that is the universe.
I think the same thing applies on the more modest level of human behaviour. Looking at how we behave through a materialistic lens is but one option. Yes, we are a coherent (or semi-coherent, for some) amalgam of cells (and genes) drawn up in a host of biological processes. Our brains are no exception to this. This, at base, is what we are. No argument there. But we are also something more, I think--however we may wish to deny that. Our brains have evolved in such a way that we've become symbol-making and pattern-seeking creatures. Only humans are able "to see a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower"; only humans find it a meaningful activity to, as it were, lift the hood of nature and peer into its workings to see what makes it tick... the better to see what makes us tick. We are a weird species, we humans; we often feel lost and alone in the universe, like an orphan abandoned in a huge mansion whose owner we've never met. Thus, like an orphan, we amuse ourselves... with ourselves. We look for ways to inject some meaning into our existences, to make some sense of our experience (that is, beyond that which it may--or may not--inherently have). Thus, art. Thus, science. Thus, psychology. Thus, Jung. Thus, the anima.
The concept of anima can be useful (or amusing). But we musn't take it for more than it is. It's a thought generated by a brain in search of its own mysteries. That doesn't mean it's reprehensible for all that. In this regard, it's certainly not as harmful as, say, religious fanaticism. You know, near the end of his life, Jung had become interested in many things the more rational among us would consider absolute gobbledygook--the tarot, synchronicity (the elevation of randomness and coincidence to high priesthood), flying saucers, etc., etc. Still, that doesn't in any way diminish the usefulness of some of his more "poetic" theories--the collective unconscious (with its pantheon of archetypal figures) chief among them.
I may not be the Jungian that, say, Elizabeth, is. But neither am I ready to so easily dismiss some of Jung's more useful ideas. Having said all this, I'm not sure yet what I think of this whole anima/animus thingy. Maybe I'll have an answer... in my next life.
Love,
CJ
Just remember, Lydia, one man's psychobabble is another man's gospel.
I'm of two minds about this whole notion of the unconscious (and therein lies a pun, no doubt!), and even more so about some "collective" unconscious. On the one hand, it is, indeed (to me), pure psychobabble--unintelligible "mental fairy" jargon for which there is not a single shred of evidence. I want to say, "brains make minds, period." Emotions, feelings, sentiments, wishes, dreams, intentional stances, thoughts, and even rational discourse are all things that are produced in, and by, the brain. How? Who really knows? Yet. And I'm sure an army of white lab coats are working on this. Still, on the other hand, like many concepts human beings come up with, I find some Jungian models that ostensibly explain some features of human behaviour to be, well, useful... in some ways.
In some cultures, history is seen as being linear, with some end or goal, while, in others, it's considered cyclical, like a great wheel. History is neither. But looking at it from this or that viewpoint sometimes helps us structure our understanding of our place in the Great Ocean that is the universe.
I think the same thing applies on the more modest level of human behaviour. Looking at how we behave through a materialistic lens is but one option. Yes, we are a coherent (or semi-coherent, for some) amalgam of cells (and genes) drawn up in a host of biological processes. Our brains are no exception to this. This, at base, is what we are. No argument there. But we are also something more, I think--however we may wish to deny that. Our brains have evolved in such a way that we've become symbol-making and pattern-seeking creatures. Only humans are able "to see a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower"; only humans find it a meaningful activity to, as it were, lift the hood of nature and peer into its workings to see what makes it tick... the better to see what makes us tick. We are a weird species, we humans; we often feel lost and alone in the universe, like an orphan abandoned in a huge mansion whose owner we've never met. Thus, like an orphan, we amuse ourselves... with ourselves. We look for ways to inject some meaning into our existences, to make some sense of our experience (that is, beyond that which it may--or may not--inherently have). Thus, art. Thus, science. Thus, psychology. Thus, Jung. Thus, the anima.
The concept of anima can be useful (or amusing). But we musn't take it for more than it is. It's a thought generated by a brain in search of its own mysteries. That doesn't mean it's reprehensible for all that. In this regard, it's certainly not as harmful as, say, religious fanaticism. You know, near the end of his life, Jung had become interested in many things the more rational among us would consider absolute gobbledygook--the tarot, synchronicity (the elevation of randomness and coincidence to high priesthood), flying saucers, etc., etc. Still, that doesn't in any way diminish the usefulness of some of his more "poetic" theories--the collective unconscious (with its pantheon of archetypal figures) chief among them.
I may not be the Jungian that, say, Elizabeth, is. But neither am I ready to so easily dismiss some of Jung's more useful ideas. Having said all this, I'm not sure yet what I think of this whole anima/animus thingy. Maybe I'll have an answer... in my next life.
Love,
CJ