Robyn Katie, that took my breath away. I don't know whether to answer here or the other thread, where we discussed the idea of a feminized autobiography. Guess here is better for one part, and there for the other (makes me sound like a politician...eeeewwwww!!!!)
Almost always when I dress, I become aroused to some degree. And that degree usually increases until...well, you know. Earlier this week, I worked from home, and decided, because I hadn't been fully dressed in a long time, to where something really feminine - a lovely satin dress, sexy lingerie, and Silken Mist pantyhose and heels. Needless to say, I...um...didn't get a lot of work done.
Today, the weather in NY is quite messy, so I decided to work from home again rather than face a horrid commute. After my wife and son left for their respective employs, I changed. But this time, into my cute stretchy boyshort panties, black stretch pants, soft yellow turtleneck and black mary jane flats. I was cozy, comfy, and feeling totally and sweetly feminine, but not in overload. I actually got a lot of work done! And when I decided to change a few minutes ago (have a conference call coming up and my wife will likely be home before it's over), it wasn't after the usual...ending. I feel like I just took a huge step, in that dressing doesn't have to be sexual.
As I read your post, it occurred to me that I, like most of us here (I assume) am strongly drawn to females. So, if I were a woman, would I be a lesbian? I'm not so sure. I have to believe that if I were a woman, I would be different from how I am now. The hormones would be different, my brain would function differently (at least in the emotional realm). There would be some similarities, of course, but lots of differences, too. I don't think it's too odd to think that I, as a woman, might very well be drawn to males.
A couple of years ago, I was at a two-day conference of a study group to which I belong. I brought a number of lovely items with me. At the end of the first day, there was a cocktail party and a dinner, and I wore a very naughty pair of panties under my usual male clothing. During the cocktail hour, I was standing in a group, and one of the other guys was standing very close to me. I sidestepped away from him as I reached for a passing hors d-oerve tray and a few moments later, he shifted toward me again. He wasn't coming on to me, that became obvious after a while, but for a few passing moments, it felt like he was. And although I would have been horrified at the prospect, repulsed even, at the same time I felt a little momentary buzz from his perceived flirting. For a moment, Erin felt attractive, and that was a thrill.
Would you rather be a woman?
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Johanna
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Why is that such a strech? I think we over anlyze our impulses and the bottom line is that we want to be a sexy girl. Why is so had to beleive that we want to be that way full time?
Perhaps God, or whatever spirit we acknowledge, go us sligthly mixed? Perhapd we are the male group expeced to vote for womnen's rights? I is impossible to know,
Perhaps God, or whatever spirit we acknowledge, go us sligthly mixed? Perhapd we are the male group expeced to vote for womnen's rights? I is impossible to know,
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Elizabeth
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Hi Johanna,
I have often wondered how many want to be a woman enough that just being a woman is enough? I know for, I would be happy being a woman. I don't need to be an attractive or sexy woman. Not saying it wouldn't be nice, but I am sure all women and most men would prefer to be attractive and sexy, yet when one goes out in public, that is not what we see.
Would you be happier as a 5'1", 240 Lbs woman than as a man?
Love always,
Elizabeth
Would you prefer to be an unattractive woman, as opposed to being an attractive male?Johanna wrote:... I think we over anlyze our impulses and the bottom line is that we want to be a sexy girl. Why is so had to beleive that we want to be that way full time?
...
I have often wondered how many want to be a woman enough that just being a woman is enough? I know for, I would be happy being a woman. I don't need to be an attractive or sexy woman. Not saying it wouldn't be nice, but I am sure all women and most men would prefer to be attractive and sexy, yet when one goes out in public, that is not what we see.
Would you be happier as a 5'1", 240 Lbs woman than as a man?
Love always,
Elizabeth
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Johanna
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Very true
I have also thought about that. Let's face it, you tour KMart and the average woman is not very sexy in the classic sense. When we think about transformation, though, it is only natural to fantasize. Have you noticed that many people who believe they were reincarnated claim to have been a general, senator, or im my case a sexy woman?
Therefore, you make a good point, but leave me with my fantasy and don't make me contemplate the 240 pound vision.
Therefore, you make a good point, but leave me with my fantasy and don't make me contemplate the 240 pound vision.
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Robyn Katie
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Great question, Elizabeth, and I don't know if I can answer it. How much are all of us tied up in being, or at least feeling, attractive and sexy? How much would the thrill (or any advantage at all) go away if we were an ugly or even just boring woman to look at and be around? I know, ugly or not, none of us think we'd ever be a bore, but ...
At the very least I'd a whole lot rather be an attractive (and young) female than one who is overweight, shapeless, old, etc.
Reminds me of the question posed to Richard Raskind when he became Renee Richards: why would you want to become a middle-aged woman?
But I think I would. I think the femaleness part is important to me beyond dazzling looks, age or anything. But of course I don't know for sure because I haven't been there.
On the other hand Renee Richards has been for some years publicly repudiating her sex change, claiming she was (if I remember correctly) deceived and the whole thing was misrepresented. Maybe she knows something we don't?
Erin, your point about hormones is the wild card in the deck. All my feelings are based on the hormones I've got. I have read a few brief accounts that suggest sexual orientation does indeed shift once female hormones are in play. All I can say is, I've no way to know, short of making the experiment. But that alone might make me refuse the experiment, because men don't rate very high in my view of things (yes I know, my unreasonable prejudice, but I never pretended to be reasonable).
Love, Robyn Katie
At the very least I'd a whole lot rather be an attractive (and young) female than one who is overweight, shapeless, old, etc.
Reminds me of the question posed to Richard Raskind when he became Renee Richards: why would you want to become a middle-aged woman?
But I think I would. I think the femaleness part is important to me beyond dazzling looks, age or anything. But of course I don't know for sure because I haven't been there.
On the other hand Renee Richards has been for some years publicly repudiating her sex change, claiming she was (if I remember correctly) deceived and the whole thing was misrepresented. Maybe she knows something we don't?
Erin, your point about hormones is the wild card in the deck. All my feelings are based on the hormones I've got. I have read a few brief accounts that suggest sexual orientation does indeed shift once female hormones are in play. All I can say is, I've no way to know, short of making the experiment. But that alone might make me refuse the experiment, because men don't rate very high in my view of things (yes I know, my unreasonable prejudice, but I never pretended to be reasonable).
Love, Robyn Katie
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Jennifer
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When I have those thoughts of what it would be like to be a woman being attractive or sexy has never been as intriguing as simply being a woman. Had I been born female I would have turned out however I turned out and I would have had to accept myself as is. It seems funny saying that because I obviously have not accepted myself as being all male or I wouldn't be here.
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Melyssa Anne
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Here's another wrinkle to ponder....
Since much of what we are about (almost by definition) is about wanting to wear the clothing of women, and much of what we all seem to want to wear are things we percieve as feminine, would you be more or less inclined to want to have been born a woman if you knew it meant being born into a completely different type of society (such asI ndian, Chinese, a tribeswoman in Africa). Think about it-- most of us would not find the clothes there to be what we consider "feminine" , and then there are all the different attitudes towards women from what we are used to in our society -- many very deragatory.
We sometimes forget we are viewing all of these concepts from some fairly narow perspectives with some fairly large assumptions about what it would be like.
I can tell you that for me, in spite of how much I enjoy passing and blending in, and in spite of how much I admire what women, in general, deal with both physically and in society -- I am content being me, and will be content to continue in my endeavers and my admiration for women in general.
Since much of what we are about (almost by definition) is about wanting to wear the clothing of women, and much of what we all seem to want to wear are things we percieve as feminine, would you be more or less inclined to want to have been born a woman if you knew it meant being born into a completely different type of society (such asI ndian, Chinese, a tribeswoman in Africa). Think about it-- most of us would not find the clothes there to be what we consider "feminine" , and then there are all the different attitudes towards women from what we are used to in our society -- many very deragatory.
We sometimes forget we are viewing all of these concepts from some fairly narow perspectives with some fairly large assumptions about what it would be like.
I can tell you that for me, in spite of how much I enjoy passing and blending in, and in spite of how much I admire what women, in general, deal with both physically and in society -- I am content being me, and will be content to continue in my endeavers and my admiration for women in general.
Missy
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Johanna
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Still would like to try
I thought that Erin's reply was very perceptive for those of us who begin to actually female when we are dressed. I get no arousal from the male body, but when dressed and on the highest plateau of CD, when i really live and breathe feminine, always wonder what sex with a man would feel like.
I have no experience with anal sex and doubt that I will ever try it, but wonder how close that comes to approximating the female experience. To my unsophisticated mind, biological womenh have many more nerve endings that result in a more pleasurable experience. Again, since we cannot actually experience a female orgasm, we really don't know.
Do any of my sisters have a take on this, or wondeer what sex with a man would feel like? I am putting myself out on the line, so please ber kind.
Johanna
I have no experience with anal sex and doubt that I will ever try it, but wonder how close that comes to approximating the female experience. To my unsophisticated mind, biological womenh have many more nerve endings that result in a more pleasurable experience. Again, since we cannot actually experience a female orgasm, we really don't know.
Do any of my sisters have a take on this, or wondeer what sex with a man would feel like? I am putting myself out on the line, so please ber kind.
Johanna
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Lucy Michelle
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Erin L
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Just because I mentioned hormones first doesn't mean that I meant to focus on them exclusively. I meant it to be just one example of all the changes that there would be if I were a biological female. Johanna mentions additional nerve endings. I know that I wouldn't just be the current ME but with the body parts I desire. I would be a different person.
I think I know what she is like - the real Erin. She is a lot like me, but she isn't exactly me. She would get to do the things I dream of doing. She'd actually get to be the daughter, the sister, the very-best-friend-in-the-whole-world-with-infinite-Xs-and-Os; the girlfriend, the lover, the fiance, the bride, the working-mom.
Her upbringing would have been almost exactly the same as mine, but it would have been subtly different. Her dad would have loved her as he did me, except he would have been openly demonstrative of that love, which he never was - and never could be - with me. In his traditional, sexist way, he wouldn't have been demanding of her in ways he was with me, and so she (who I suspect would have been just as quietly rebelious in her way as I was in mine) wouldn't have felt the need to resist. And because he would have let her in close, and because I suspect she would have posessed an intuitive sense that I do not, she probably would have guessed about his drinking problem long before he told me at age 13. And, as a girl, she certainly would not have felt constrained in reaching out to others for support, as I did, and she would have weathered that storm better than I did.
As for Melyssa Anne's point about cultural placement, I have to admit I've never thought of that. I suppose I'm like most of my sisters here in that I've only ever imagined myself as female in the here and now, mostly because I don't have the ethnic and cultural references to really know any other way. But to answer her question, I would think that if I were born in another time and place, in another culture that with my Western male mind I would not find attractive or feminine, I would be raised with all the cultural references and that would be normalized for me. So, regardless of what signifies "feminine" for me in the here and now, it would be whatever signified "feminine" in whatever society I was born into that would be important.
I think I know what she is like - the real Erin. She is a lot like me, but she isn't exactly me. She would get to do the things I dream of doing. She'd actually get to be the daughter, the sister, the very-best-friend-in-the-whole-world-with-infinite-Xs-and-Os; the girlfriend, the lover, the fiance, the bride, the working-mom.
Her upbringing would have been almost exactly the same as mine, but it would have been subtly different. Her dad would have loved her as he did me, except he would have been openly demonstrative of that love, which he never was - and never could be - with me. In his traditional, sexist way, he wouldn't have been demanding of her in ways he was with me, and so she (who I suspect would have been just as quietly rebelious in her way as I was in mine) wouldn't have felt the need to resist. And because he would have let her in close, and because I suspect she would have posessed an intuitive sense that I do not, she probably would have guessed about his drinking problem long before he told me at age 13. And, as a girl, she certainly would not have felt constrained in reaching out to others for support, as I did, and she would have weathered that storm better than I did.
As for Melyssa Anne's point about cultural placement, I have to admit I've never thought of that. I suppose I'm like most of my sisters here in that I've only ever imagined myself as female in the here and now, mostly because I don't have the ethnic and cultural references to really know any other way. But to answer her question, I would think that if I were born in another time and place, in another culture that with my Western male mind I would not find attractive or feminine, I would be raised with all the cultural references and that would be normalized for me. So, regardless of what signifies "feminine" for me in the here and now, it would be whatever signified "feminine" in whatever society I was born into that would be important.
I'm not that kind of girl.
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Erin L
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Johanna, of course we'll be kind. The whole idea of this forum, as I see it, anyway, is to be able to talk about things we need to talk about but that we can't anywhere else.
For myself, I have occasionally wondered what female sex with a man would be like. And I've sometimes used a vibrator, which is very...interesting. But I've probably spent more time wondering what loving a man as a woman would be like; what dating would be like; how it would feel to spend hours making myself (Erin) look as pretty as I possibly could, and then to see his reaction. What would it be like to get flowers for an occasion, or better yet, when I wasn't even expecting them? What would my first prom be like? Or my first time as a bridesmaid? What would it be like when, at the age of 12, Erin realizes that the cute guy she's had a desperate crush on for months actualy LIKES HER!! What about when she's married and her husband comes home one night, devastated, suddenly out of a job, feeling desperately alone and useless, and in the privacy of their bedroom he breaks down and cries and she is strong for him, holds him, and promises that it will all be all right.
Oh, and about the sex...when I dress like Erin, I sometimes feel as if I'd be a total slut. But actually, Erin wouldn't be a slut at all. She'd probably be a virgin until she was about 19 or 20 (although she'd probably come close to the line a couple of times in high school), and she'd never think of sex as casual at all. But when she was with her guy, the one she knew was THE ONE, then the sparks would fly.
For myself, I have occasionally wondered what female sex with a man would be like. And I've sometimes used a vibrator, which is very...interesting. But I've probably spent more time wondering what loving a man as a woman would be like; what dating would be like; how it would feel to spend hours making myself (Erin) look as pretty as I possibly could, and then to see his reaction. What would it be like to get flowers for an occasion, or better yet, when I wasn't even expecting them? What would my first prom be like? Or my first time as a bridesmaid? What would it be like when, at the age of 12, Erin realizes that the cute guy she's had a desperate crush on for months actualy LIKES HER!! What about when she's married and her husband comes home one night, devastated, suddenly out of a job, feeling desperately alone and useless, and in the privacy of their bedroom he breaks down and cries and she is strong for him, holds him, and promises that it will all be all right.
Oh, and about the sex...when I dress like Erin, I sometimes feel as if I'd be a total slut. But actually, Erin wouldn't be a slut at all. She'd probably be a virgin until she was about 19 or 20 (although she'd probably come close to the line a couple of times in high school), and she'd never think of sex as casual at all. But when she was with her guy, the one she knew was THE ONE, then the sparks would fly.
I'm not that kind of girl.
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Johanna
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Erin is quite a woman
I appreciate both your honesty and eloquence. What a beautifully written story. I think that most of us would like to have the experience of growing up female- no matter how much we like being male in this lifetime.
As for being "slut," I think a better way to view it would be sexually aggressive. Men, in general, are wired to want sex often with as many partners as possible. Women, again in general, seem to place more emphasis on the relationship, although I have certainly met women who love sex just for the experience.
A 60 Minutes story featured experts who stated that gay men are more promiscuous than females, although they share the same feelings toward men. The claim was that some gays had the same multiple opportunities as women, but also lacked the guilt, or restraint, that most women have.
Another 60 Minutes article stated that sexual confusion might be related to having older brother(s). The cause is (apparently) that the first male pregnancy takes a mother by surprise. By the time the second male is gestating, women actually develop a defense mechanism over the alien in their body.
Interesting theories in both cases. Your thoughts? I happen to be a second son and confessed cross dresser.
As for being "slut," I think a better way to view it would be sexually aggressive. Men, in general, are wired to want sex often with as many partners as possible. Women, again in general, seem to place more emphasis on the relationship, although I have certainly met women who love sex just for the experience.
A 60 Minutes story featured experts who stated that gay men are more promiscuous than females, although they share the same feelings toward men. The claim was that some gays had the same multiple opportunities as women, but also lacked the guilt, or restraint, that most women have.
Another 60 Minutes article stated that sexual confusion might be related to having older brother(s). The cause is (apparently) that the first male pregnancy takes a mother by surprise. By the time the second male is gestating, women actually develop a defense mechanism over the alien in their body.
Interesting theories in both cases. Your thoughts? I happen to be a second son and confessed cross dresser.
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Erin L
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I don't credit the older brother theory at all. For one thing, I am the only child my mother ever had (when she remarrried when I was 18, I suddenly had a 13 year old sister). For another, I know too many women with sons for whom there is no "defense mechanism".
As for gay men being more promiscuous than heterosexual women, one possible reason for that might be that being gay already falls outside the boundaries of traditional values, so what would be the point? I happen to think that's a good argument in favor of gay marriages - encouraging more stable relationships.
As for gay men being more promiscuous than heterosexual women, one possible reason for that might be that being gay already falls outside the boundaries of traditional values, so what would be the point? I happen to think that's a good argument in favor of gay marriages - encouraging more stable relationships.
I'm not that kind of girl.
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Joselle
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Robyn Katie
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I agree, the older brother theory doesn't hold in my case. I *am* the older brother in a two-boy family.
On the other hand I can well believe maternal attitude, experience, etc. during pregnancy could have some influence.
The pregnancy story my mom always told was that she and my father planted 1,000 pine seedlings while she was pregnant with me. Those became the wonderful pine woods in our back field that I loved and played in all my childhood -- I always felt those beautiful white pine trees were sort of my cousins, if not brothers and sisters.
But I don't imagine anyone would accept a theory that first male children whose mothers planted pine seedlings during pregnancy will turn out to be crossdressers?
Love, Robyn Katie
On the other hand I can well believe maternal attitude, experience, etc. during pregnancy could have some influence.
The pregnancy story my mom always told was that she and my father planted 1,000 pine seedlings while she was pregnant with me. Those became the wonderful pine woods in our back field that I loved and played in all my childhood -- I always felt those beautiful white pine trees were sort of my cousins, if not brothers and sisters.
But I don't imagine anyone would accept a theory that first male children whose mothers planted pine seedlings during pregnancy will turn out to be crossdressers?
Love, Robyn Katie