Why do we want to?

Robyn Katie · Post by **Robyn Katie** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:33 am

Hi sisters,

I know this may seem like a "why does the chicken cross the road" question. But I was thinking (fatal habit), and:

* Why? Why do we want to be, or seem to be, or feel like, women? *

The answer may seem obvious, and in thread after thread many of you have touched on your own personal conscious reasons. Yet I thought it might be worth asking on a wider scale, about unconscious (or semiconscious?) drives.

This is hard to express, but let me suggest some straw (wo)men:

1. I recall anthropologists studying primitive men who wear fake breasts and women's attire in ceremonial. They tended to think the men were trying to usurp the power a woman has to give birth. Really? Or did the need go even deeper?

2. The movie of "South Pacific" has a sequence in which womanless soldiers use coconut-shell bras etc. and sing, if I remember correctly, "Nothing Like a Dame." Reason: horny and needy? Or a lot more than that?

3. You could comb CD history and find lots of other examples, from the celebrated Chevalier D'Eon to Milton Berle and Richard Pryor in dresses, each with hir own reasons. Plus drag queens. (There's the contrary F2M thing Marlene Dietrich did, and why do we find that cool?) Is it "grass is greener" and testing the forbidden?

4. The psychologists have had a go, speaking of all sorts of deprivations and maybe genetic factors and so on and on. But I don't think their insights help much in answering this set of questions, which are much more about drives/desires than about someone's notion of personality mechanisms gone awry.

5. A lot of us have spoken of a sense of malehood not being a perfect fit. Of fascination at mothers, sisters, aunts, female friends, starting very young in some cases. Why? Exactly what *is* the fascination, at its most basic? Why are we such pushovers for it (me as much as anyone)?

6. We get into our bras and panties, dresses and heels, wigs and such. What is it we are trying to do? Imitation = flattery? A form of magic? How is it we are mad to "be" women in whatever way we can be?

7. Put another way: What do we think women are, that we are so wild to "be" them? What's the wild excitement of that roleplay, let's pretend, that has us nearly swooning, even though we like to try to act practical and sensible?

8. What is this hunger? Why does it consume our days, our nights, our attention, our dollars, our lives? What are we striving, ultimately, to do for ourselves? To make of ourselves? Is it an appetite for "more?" Transcendence? Escape? Or something bigger?

Silly questions, right? The answers are obvious, right? Or maybe not? Anyone care to speculate on the existential thing happening under the surface in each of our hot little hearts and souls and minds?

I know I'm asking the impossible, just as I did when asking what it felt like to be a woman. There isn't any ready made-to-order explanation -- no map of this secret unspoken territory inside each of us. But let's try. I'll bet there will be as many different answers as there are answerers.

I'll try to answer too, as time goes on (right now I'm stumped).

Anyway I'd really rather hear from you. Have at it! And have fun answering. It's not meant to be a chore.

Remember, I'm looking not for reasons of whim or the moment -- but for underlying reasons. For what's going on in there that, though we're males, makes us need, hunger, crave to tick in feminine ways.

My heart's in my mouth just daring to ask.

Love, Robyn Katie

Anita · Post by **Anita** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:11 am

Hi Robyn--
I'm just going to nibble on this one to start, OK?

If I'm a man, then I'm limited in how I move my body. Certain gestures, ways of walking, ways of dancing--they're all off limits to me.

But if I'm willing to risk it, I can create the appearance of a body that can do any and all of these things.

Moving the body in new and different ways can set up new thoughts and new feelings. What these might be is for another time.

Lydia · Post by **Lydia** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:45 am

Hi Robyn,

Great post. I've been asking essentially the same questioons for many years. I went through a long period of feeling shame and guilt, before recognizing that crossdresssing was a basic part of my personality.

That nagging question: Why? What is this powerful drive? Where does it come from? I know that in me (and many others) it starts long before the onset of puberty.

Does this have any basis in genetics? There is evidence that homosexual behavior in humans has some genetic basis, but heterosexual crossdressing? Woefully insufficient data.

My personal conculsion is a cop-out. I have ceased to explain it - I just enjoy it. We don't have to know the reasons for everything. I know that is a heretical thing to say after a lifetime of scientific training.

Thought-provoking thread - I hope it continues.

Hugs,

Lydia

Absaroka · Post by **Absaroka** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:17 pm

Great question. I personally don't understand why some men don't like to do this.

As for why I like to, that will be another post when I have more time.

Absaroka

Post by **DonnaT** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:37 pm

For me the desire to dress started when I was around 7 yrs old. However, I had no desire to be a girl and didn't even like girls.

Sexualizing the clothes came along with puberty. That is, the puberty was the cause of using the clothes for stimulation, it was not the clothes that raised my awareness in self.

Going on 54 in June, and have never had the desire to be a woman. Of course there was a desire for breasts, but nothing more.

Nor do I desire to imitate a woman.

I am just me, doing what needs to be done to feel right. Why does dressing result in the "it just feels right" feeling? I haven't a solid answer.

I reckon it is because I am dual-gendered, or transgendered, to some degree. The non-visual portion of that gender likes cross dressing so 'she' can be seen. I say 'she' because society believes only women should wear the clothes designed for women.

Erin L · Post by **Erin L** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:03 pm

Oh, dear, Robyn, where to start?

I think I'll start with your mention of "South Pacific", because I probably got to know it as a musical better than any other, and reading the book on which it was based triggered a life-long appreciation for James A. Michener. Michener certainly wasn't afraid to take on taboo topics, but the topic of choice in "Tales of the South Pacific" - and ably reflected in the musical - was not transgender but rather racial prejudice. "There is Nothing Like a Dame" is meant to express nothing more than horny fighting men away from home, and a bit of musical fun into the bargain (it has no counterpart in the book).

In fact, we did "South Pacific" in my senior year of high school. One Sunday afternoon, when we were rehearsing (I was in the orchestra), we were working on that particular number. In attendance that day was Joe Cali, who had graduated three years earlier (I had gotten to know him briefly in my freshman year) and who later went on to play a supporting role in the film "The Competition" (he played the kid from the Bronx). After watching the guys in the cast give a lackluster performance, he spoke up with the best piece of advice the cast got in the entire production: "Guys! Act horny!" The brothers didn't care for it, but it sure broke the rest of us up.

I was fascinated by girls as far back as I can remember. Even before I can remember - my mother tells the story of when I was two and asked for a toy baby carriage, and I cried when I couldn't have one. I can remember being four and pushing a girl from the neighborhood who had pushed me first, and being told, "you NEVER hit a girl!" And in first grade, the nun told my mother, "I put him with the boys and he never shuts up; I put him with the girls and he doesn't give them a minute's peace." I didn't respond, "Why should I? They don't give me any!" but I could have.

I have never even remotely considered transitioning. But if I could have a chance to be born a girl, I would jump at it. Even with the pain of childbirth, the fear of breast cancer (I see it in my wife every time she goes for a mammogram) and all the rest. Satin, lace, chiffon, taffeta, nylons, heels, earrings, pearls, perfume, lipstick, blush, mascara, eye shadow, curls, highlights...oh. my!

Willie W · Post by **Willie W** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:14 am

I have to believe that most of us here, and many, many others, are predisposed to feel like a woman. Just like some are destined to use drugs, play a musical instrument, or become homosexual. My guess is that it's written somewhere in our genetic codes
We are what we are. Or, as Popeye would say, "I y'am what I y'am, and that''s all that I y'am."

Jan W · Post by **Jan W** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:15 am

That question is up there with - what is the one true religion?

Angela · Post by **Angela** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:09 am

I don't know why I'm a CDr. I stopped all that analysing a long tme ago.
I just know that I am, I always will be and I absolutely love it!

Rony · Post by **Rony** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:16 am

Jan
Very nice photo set.

Rony

Sandra Jane · Post by **Sandra Jane** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:45 am

Angela wrote:I don't know why I'm a CDr. I stopped all that analysing a long tme ago.
I just know that I am, I always wll be and I absolutely love it!

I agree 100% I feel the same.

Robyn Katie · Post by **Robyn Katie** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:50 am

Hi sisters,

True, some might feel I'm just asking an unanswerable question. But sometimes in trying to answer the unanswerable, interesting insights emerge.

Anita, I think you're on to something, talking about "moving the body in new and different ways" and what comes from that.

That's one possible glimpse beneath the everyday into the workings of this desire.

Others?

Love, Robyn Katie

Robyn Katie · Post by **Robyn Katie** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:08 am

And ...

I'm sympathetic with those who say, "Too much analyzing ..." "I don't ask why, I just enjoy it ..." etc. It's a valid point of view. Brings to mind that story about the centipede who fell in the ditch trying to understand how exactly he/she walks!

On the other hand if humankind had taken that story to heart, we wouldn't have explored a lot of things we've explored.

This is an exploration. A lot of us like explorations, and don't see anything wrong with asking, for the benefit of others who also enjoy and learn from them.

Nor is there any "right" or "wrong" answer -- all answers that shed light are welcome. They don't even have to make sense, just be thought-provoking.

I'm hoping for the unexpected!

Love, Robyn Katie

Jill S · Post by **Jill S** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:03 pm

Only two thing quiet the noise in my head; cross dressing or heavy drinking.
Dressing only works to a degree and drinking makes my stupid. Wish I knew a third option that didn't mean losing my family.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:11 am

Hi Robyn,

I think a big part of it for me is the desire to "feel pretty". There is just no opportunity, as a male, to feel pretty. It's not the only thing, but it is a big part of it. I believe that is why I enjoy having my nails polished, or pretty shoes, or having underwear that little bows. Handsome is a different thing and does not appeal to me.

Love always,
Elizabeth