Are crosdressers gay

[Absaroka]

Debi I'd like to expand on something Melody said. After "are you gay?" the next popular question is "Do you want to be a woman?" And to read all the stuff here from people who are transitioning you might think that this is often the case. There is even a joke which I'll repeat here in an effort to warn you against the idea. "What's the difference between a cross dresser and a transexual? ..........About 2 years" However this is an equally false stereotype. The vast majority of crossdressers consider themselves male, want to stay that way, and often comment that if they were female that they imagine they'd like to dress in mens clothing. It's about the clothes, and perhaps crossing a societal boundary, not about GID. No disrespect to the many members here for whom wearing womens clothing is about things far more complex...... Melody is also right about sex still being taboo. Sometimes I think people believe that just admitting you get a sexual thrill out of wearing clothes out of the opposite gender is less acceptable than saying you are partly bigendered. Although simply enjoying the clothing is a lot simpler in terms of it's impact on our lives than being bi gendered. Which of course is a whole different thing than being bi sexual.

Here's a thought for you. Consider all the advertising, money, effort, and the like expended on womens clothing, on womens lingerie in particular. Think of stores like Victoria's Secret or Bare Neccesities. There is no male equivalent. There are no stores that cater only to mens needs for a great variety of underwear, and most of us would find the idea of such a store, selling large stocks of both BVD and FTL to be humorous. Sure sex store sell male lingerie, but it's usually a bit of an afterthought.

The point is that there is something very powerful about women's clothing. Is it so strange or even surprising that with all the effort going into making women look attractive in their lingerie that sometimes men get the signals a bit confused and become attracted to the lingerie itself as a symbol of what it contains? Of course now I'm speaking of a womans body as an object, but after all no matter how much men (and I include myself here as a prime example) value the person, there are times when we just want the body. And if we further consider the taboo's on nudity, even as near nudity is a matter of course at the beach and on a hot summer day, is any of this a surprise? Men are supposed to get excited at the sight of a woman in her bra and panties, or a corset or whatever. A tremendous amount of effort, at a socieatal and personal level, is expended to ensure that we do. And so sometimes we get a bit confused, and think rather than put a small part of our body into a small part of the womans body, we'd like to put all of our body into the materials she uses to cover her body. Or we'd like to imagine how it would feel to inhabit that body that we've come to desire so much. And if we act on those feelings we think we are so beyond the pale that no one will trust us or like us or even let their children walk down the same street as us.

And then we come to societies ideas of sex. It's as if sex taints everything it touches. I like to use the analogy of fishing. Fishing can be about food, especially if say you are camping and hungry. But it's about mediation, it's about enjoying the outdoors, it's about camaradierie or solitude, and once in a while it's probably about enjoying hurting the fish. Sex is the same way. For me at this point in my life dressing is to sex the way a cup of hot chocolate on a cold night is to food. Yes there is something sexual about it but there is something else. A sense of peacefullness, probably brought about by my having aquired a learned response to it where it releases some endorphins.

I hope this helps. Try to remember it's probably just about some articles of clothing which unfortunately aquired a tremendous amount of baggage along the way.

Zari

[MelodyPerkins]

Debi,

If I may,...

Perhaps just a stereotype,...but I think many men consider women the weaker sex, perhaps not as intelligent, etc.... I know that I once held these incorrect beliefs.

I can tell you this,...having incorporated feminine attributes (or let's face it,...what I imagine to be feminine attributes) into my life, dressing the part, feeling the part,....I can tell you that nothing can be further from the truth about women and their intellect.

While there may be some very small truth in that the way male and female brains have developed which make males more linear thinkers and hence good in math and science, that is not an indication of the inferiority or lack of intellect among women.

One things is clear to me, and that is women tend to value another sort of intellect and exercise it more than men,...which, in the end is more important to the psychological well-being of humans. Women have emotional intelligence,...they value connections between people and tend to be more expressive and receptive of thoughts and emotions. For many men, such things are frightening and considered weak.

Hence, it is not that women are less intelligent,...but that society values economics and the manufacturing of technology, that feminine intelligence is marginalized. It flies beneath the radar, but without it,...society would crumble.

I was absolutely shocked when I started to understand more of how women think and that I and the world tend to under appreciate it. I guess what I am trying to say is, that by exploring the feminine side of the equation,...a man may become more of a thoughtful, loving and kind person,...and not so fixated upon goal setting and progressing up some ladder of success. I know that I have become a better father, husband and lover.

Additionally, no man can understand why it takes so long for a woman to get ready and how important that preparation is for her,...unless he has to do it himself. Believe me when I say,...it takes a man a LOT longer to transform into the attractive woman he wants to become than it does any woman. When my wife is getting ready,...I sit patiently with a knowing and understanding smile on my face,....and a little envy that she is able to look so beautiful with so little effort.

Love,
Melody

[DanteCarrie (FTM)]

I notice very few or actually only one person mentioned there are more than just gay or straight.

It sucks that people assume if you crossdress your gay but it sucks more that they assume you are gay or straight.

scientific surveys have shown there are more bisexuals than homosexuals you think people would cotton on.

Anyway I'm bisexual. mainly drawn to women with a few exceptions and i certainly like anything inbetween male and female. I have no idea if my sexuality and gender are connected.

[MelodyPerkins]

I notice very few or actually only one person mentioned there are more than just gay or straight.

It sucks that people assume if you crossdress your gay but it sucks more that they assume you are gay or straight.

scientific surveys have shown there are more bisexuals than homosexuals you think people would cotton on.

Anyway I'm bisexual. mainly drawn to women with a few exceptions and i certainly like anything inbetween male and female. I have no idea if my sexuality and gender are connected.

As I had mentioned before, gender identity and sexual attraction fall along a continuum. (It is my belief that if straight men were ONLY attracted to women, there would be no "money shots" in pornography.)

[Jabbela]

First about me: I love women, and this could be part of my wish to be like one. I am really addicted to my SO. But this is not only by the way women look and dress. I can't dress very often, but I am transgendered all the time and the woman inside is always present.

To increase the confusion, i read terms like trans-lesbian; I interpret it the way, that as male I am straight and as woman i am lesbian. I can't imagine to have intimate contact to men as male. As woman this is part of some fantasies, but I can't imagine to go for it one day (but who knows).

Of course, "are you gay" is the most common assumption, when ever someone meets a M2F CD or TG. It was also my ex-wife's first question. Well, I guess mostly men could not believe, that a woman (genetic or trans) could not be interested in men, also neglecting lesbian women. I guess they are sad, that this woman (genetic or trans) will not match him for what ever purpose.

Another topic is the broad perception of transgendered people, esp. M2F transgenders. Many men learn about trans* via pornographic videos mostly showing SheMales. And those want a lot of sex and mostly with men. Well, those Shemales must be gay - funny enough, the men having sex with Shemales are not considered to be gay, even both have sex with a genetic male. Well... pornographic industry had the power to decide on video formats (VHS) in the past - and unfortunately they have the power to influence people (also in the perception how women should be like).
Beside the pornographic industry, other media (e.g. daily soaps) mostly show trans-sexuals, who are sexually interested in the opposite sex they want to become. Transgenders and Crossdressers are not shown, except in Drag-Shows or to have a good laughter. The mostly serious drive to dress in the fashion of the opposite sex, is mostly neglected and reduced to a fetish. We might be presented as freaks, not as serious humans. OK, freaks give better headlines than serious people. Things have improved during the last years, but still the "old picture" is present for many people.

One last topic, that comes to my mind is the style many of us dress, when en-femme in public. Many of us like to dress with a short skirt or dress, big cupped bra, stockings, high-heels - well indeed very sexy. A woman looking that sexy, does so for men, not for women. So a trans-woman looking that sexy does so for men and therefore must be gay. Well, when you look at genetic lesbians, they look attractive, but not that sexy. Beside this, lots of us overdress for the occasion. Hey, do grocery shopping in mini dress, stocking and high heels is really unusual for genetic women.
So some of us like to dress sexy in public, so they look like wanting to have sex, and the way they dress is mostly attractive to men - so they want to have sex with a men => they must be gay.
Well we know, what we are (more or less) and, as said, gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things, but most other people do not know the difference.

[Carly]

I would like to add my personal experience of not being gay or having any feelings that way. All of Jabbela's comments seem to match my feelings. I know we are all at points in a spectrum but it's helpful to find others close to the same feelings as I do.

[MelodyPerkins]

First about me: I love women, and this could be part of my wish to be like one. I am really addicted to my SO. But this is not only by the way women look and dress. I can't dress very often, but I am transgendered all the time and the woman inside is always present.

To increase the confusion, i read terms like trans-lesbian; I interpret it the way, that as male I am straight and as woman i am lesbian. I can't imagine to have intimate contact to men as male. As woman this is part of some fantasies, but I can't imagine to go for it one day (but who knows).

Of course, "are you gay" is the most common assumption, when ever someone meets a M2F CD or TG. It was also my ex-wife's first question. Well, I guess mostly men could not believe, that a woman (genetic or trans) could not be interested in men, also neglecting lesbian women. I guess they are sad, that this woman (genetic or trans) will not match him for what ever purpose.

Another topic is the broad perception of transgendered people, esp. M2F transgenders. Many men learn about trans* via pornographic videos mostly showing SheMales. And those want a lot of sex and mostly with men. Well, those Shemales must be gay - funny enough, the men having sex with Shemales are not considered to be gay, even both have sex with a genetic male. Well... pornographic industry had the power to decide on video formats (VHS) in the past - and unfortunately they have the power to influence people (also in the perception how women should be like).
Beside the pornographic industry, other media (e.g. daily soaps) mostly show trans-sexuals, who are sexually interested in the opposite sex they want to become. Transgenders and Crossdressers are not shown, except in Drag-Shows or to have a good laughter. The mostly serious drive to dress in the fashion of the opposite sex, is mostly neglected and reduced to a fetish. We might be presented as freaks, not as serious humans. OK, freaks give better headlines than serious people. Things have improved during the last years, but still the "old picture" is present for many people.

One last topic, that comes to my mind is the style many of us dress, when en-femme in public. Many of us like to dress with a short skirt or dress, big cupped bra, stockings, high-heels - well indeed very sexy. A woman looking that sexy, does so for men, not for women. So a trans-woman looking that sexy does so for men and therefore must be gay. Well, when you look at genetic lesbians, they look attractive, but not that sexy. Beside this, lots of us overdress for the occasion. Hey, do grocery shopping in mini dress, stocking and high heels is really unusual for genetic women.
So some of us like to dress sexy in public, so they look like wanting to have sex, and the way they dress is mostly attractive to men - so they want to have sex with a men => they must be gay.
Well we know, what we are (more or less) and, as said, gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things, but most other people do not know the difference.

It's a difficult concept to wrap one's mind around.

However, I think the emerging science on the issue of gender and sexual attraction is looking toward brain development in-utero, and regards them as separate developments.

I consider myself heterosexual. I am attracted toward women. However, I can not deny that the desire to be a female doesn't come with it, a curiosity about female experiences. Those experiences, for most women, include sexual intimacy with men. Yet, I have no attraction toward men. What interests me is how that experience would enhance my perception of being female. Now, were I to switch sexes and try sexual intimacy with a male, I may or may not find the experience satisfying sexually. However, I am certain that there is no chance that a true relationship (love) will be felt by me.

I think a homosexual, just as a heterosexual is likely to be attracted to the same sex, regardless of their own gender.

As for attire,... I don't know if I agree with the statement that sexy dressed XD men are gay,...it's kind of a broad statement without empirical data. I can tell you that I choose my clothing carefully to suit my age, and build, as well as my values. I do not much like the sexy or slutty look.

That is what I find so frustrating about buying clothing online which is made to fit a man's body more. The clothing looks like a costume, or a "gay" hooker outfit. I just want to look and feel like the average woman.

This really has little to do with sexuality,...and more of a state of being. It is about me,....who I am,....how I feel,...and not about sex.

[Merinda]

If I dress in sexy attire it is my female side dressing to please my male side , it has nothing to do with attracting anyone.

[London]

When I dress as a woman it is to please myself and to look beautiful for my SO, El. She loves my male persona and my female persona. I am primarily heterosexual but have occasional interest in trans males and very effeminate males (have to be hairless). This is merely an interest and I have never acted on it. El knows about this and she is attracted to women but men are her primary interest. All in all sexual orientation is a very complex issue with millions of shades between black & white.

[Bayne]

Yes and no...

FMRI scans have shown cross-sex neurology in Gays and different ones in lesbians, and different ones in Transsexuals. They haven't done the tests on Crossdressers yet but the same is expected.

Making us all then Neurologically Intersex, just different kinds of the same phenomena.

And we were all oppressed together. The law used to raid the Stonewall bar that caused the riot which started the modern Gay Rights movement.. was an anti-crossdressing law and crossdressers were amongst the first to physically fight the police brutality. And preceding that the Riot at Comptons Cafeteria was again substantially crossdressers.

So we have a shared history with Gay people and Lesbians and Transsexuals.

We are inextrcably interlinked and interconnected. Part of a diverse tapestry of human variation.

[MelodyPerkins]

Yes and no...

FMRI scans have shown cross-sex neurology in Gays and different ones in lesbians, and different ones in Transsexuals. They haven't done the tests on Crossdressers yet but the same is expected.

Making us all then Neurologically Intersex, just different kinds of the same phenomena.

And we were all oppressed together. The law used to raid the Stonewall bar that caused the riot which started the modern Gay Rights movement.. was an anti-crossdressing law and crossdressers were amongst the first to physically fight the police brutality. And preceding that the Riot at Comptons Cafeteria was again substantially crossdressers.

So we have a shared history with Gay people and Lesbians and Transsexuals.

We are inextrcably interlinked and interconnected. Part of a diverse tapestry of human variation.

Nice way to wrap it all up.

[DanteCarrie (FTM)]

First about me: I love women, and this could be part of my wish to be like one. I am really addicted to my SO. But this is not only by the way women look and dress. I can't dress very often, but I am transgendered all the time and the woman inside is always present.

To increase the confusion, i read terms like trans-lesbian; I interpret it the way, that as male I am straight and as woman i am lesbian. I can't imagine to have intimate contact to men as male. As woman this is part of some fantasies, but I can't imagine to go for it one day (but who knows).

Of course, "are you gay" is the most common assumption, when ever someone meets a M2F CD or TG. It was also my ex-wife's first question. Well, I guess mostly men could not believe, that a woman (genetic or trans) could not be interested in men, also neglecting lesbian women. I guess they are sad, that this woman (genetic or trans) will not match him for what ever purpose.

Another topic is the broad perception of transgendered people, esp. M2F transgenders. Many men learn about trans* via pornographic videos mostly showing SheMales. And those want a lot of sex and mostly with men. Well, those Shemales must be gay - funny enough, the men having sex with Shemales are not considered to be gay, even both have sex with a genetic male. Well... pornographic industry had the power to decide on video formats (VHS) in the past - and unfortunately they have the power to influence people (also in the perception how women should be like).
Beside the pornographic industry, other media (e.g. daily soaps) mostly show trans-sexuals, who are sexually interested in the opposite sex they want to become. Transgenders and Crossdressers are not shown, except in Drag-Shows or to have a good laughter. The mostly serious drive to dress in the fashion of the opposite sex, is mostly neglected and reduced to a fetish. We might be presented as freaks, not as serious humans. OK, freaks give better headlines than serious people. Things have improved during the last years, but still the "old picture" is present for many people.

One last topic, that comes to my mind is the style many of us dress, when en-femme in public. Many of us like to dress with a short skirt or dress, big cupped bra, stockings, high-heels - well indeed very sexy. A woman looking that sexy, does so for men, not for women. So a trans-woman looking that sexy does so for men and therefore must be gay. Well, when you look at genetic lesbians, they look attractive, but not that sexy. Beside this, lots of us overdress for the occasion. Hey, do grocery shopping in mini dress, stocking and high heels is really unusual for genetic women.
So some of us like to dress sexy in public, so they look like wanting to have sex, and the way they dress is mostly attractive to men - so they want to have sex with a men => they must be gay.
Well we know, what we are (more or less) and, as said, gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things, but most other people do not know the difference.

WTF to bold.... so why are lesbians attractive but not sexy? because of the way they dress? so are we assuming all lesbians are all really stereotypically "butch" ....uhuh riiiightttt...does that not seem kind of an unfair assessment to anyone else or am i just really confused by this statement??

oh and yes its probably true that crossdressers share a history with gays, lesbians and transexuals as we are all different from the supposed sexual nature of the majority ......but of course no shared history with bis at all because yeah they are just like straight people. I would like to point out that the T has only recently been added by NUS request to LGBT but the B has been there ages yet it is often ignored. I find it depressingly hilarious.

[Bernice]

It's 1:38 AM right now and I wonder why I am up at this hour posting, but perhaps I have something worthwhile and relevant to add...

By way of instructional examples, visible light is a part of a one-dimensional spectrum of frequencies/wavelengths. The reds are longer than the blues.

When it comes to politics (only as an example of spectrum), fellow Americans often ask me if I am a Republican or a Democrat. When I quickly reply "no", they assume I am merely an independent, and in so doing they unintentionally ignore or marginalize my political viewpoint. They ignorantly assume that politics is a one-dimensional quality, just as they assume gender is binary. The political spectrum is actually quite two-dimensional. (If curious, visit www.lp.org and take the quiz to learn where you really fit in).

Perhaps gender is really a two-dimensional concept? There is the body we would like to inhabit, and there is also the type of body with which we might wish to be intimate. Perhaps gender is even a many-dimensional concept?

In my own instance, I believe I would much prefer to inhabit the body of a female, but in any event, I would prefer to be intimate only with people whose bodies are not exactly like mine. Somehow my position on the spectrum, stated as such, seems incongruous with either homosexual or bisexual labels.

Since I was not asked prior to birth about what body I wanted, I got the (unfortunate) luck of the draw, and so I have been intimate with my beloved wife (very fortunate). But when I imagine myself as the woman I would want to be, I do imagine sex only with persons who have male genitalia.

None of this really changes the fact that labels are both inadequate and counterproductive, but our language is about all we have with which to communicate on the Internet.

Hugs,

Bernice

[Christopher]

Was gay , now married for 18 plus years to a significantly older woman . I love to cross dress too !

[April Rose]

I have had problems with mixed signals in dealing with gay men. I sometimes think they are picking up cues from my femininity that are not justified by my sexuality. This has happened to me several times with people whom I have had great respect for in a professional/creative sense. I think that it has kept me from forming friendships, even though I enjoyed their company.