Mixed gender clothing and appearances

[Minou]

Hi all,

Now that I have introduced myself I cannot wait to get the perspectives of other folks on this board on a type of behavior that I am confused about but feel a strong need for. It is the wearing of women's clothing in public. I don't try to appear as a woman but rather want to blur gender lines etc. However, what I feel most strongly about is to not let societal conventions dictate what I can and cannot wear.

Examples: leggings, leotards, wool tights, scoop neck t-shirts, crop pants, and even skirts that pass the "could this be men's clothing?" test. Sometimes I will do things like tuck my gear away and wear leggings...

Is it politics? Is it a dare? Is it sexual? Is it about putting myself into a vulnerable situation? Yes, yes, yes and yes, and it depends, for me.

But what about you?
Who else is doing this?
What are you wearing?
In what situation do you wear these things? Work, home, family, special friends, strangers?
What do you know about your motivation?
What emotions do you experience when you wear mixed cloths?

I know that the next step for me is to do more to suggest physical female attributes under my mixed-gender clothes: small breasts that can only be seen by the extra keen observer and that could pass for male breasts. Or wider hips through padding. I don't know where this is leading.

Thanks for your perspectives!

[Kittie]

You are very brave. I would like to wear more femme clothes as a a male. I always wear black, white or coloured/patterned panties, under my male gear I normally wear a bra, I always sleep in a nightie. I have worn a shinnel with a built in bra at my gym. I am looking for suitable femme shorts to wear quite publically
Basically my boobs show and I am not afraid to give them the necessary support but I do worry, sometimes, about the bra or bra straps showing.
I would love to wear a skirt in public since they are are much more comfortable to the male form than trousers!

[Alizee_Noelle]

I must say that I'm not nearly as brave as you are, so most of the things that I do are at the very fine detail level. Like letting the top of my laced panties show off just a teeny little bit above my jeans, when my t-shirt rises. Also, in the winter I sometimes wear bodysuits with built-in padded bras, which can also show a little bit, but they're pretty well masked by the heavier outer clothing.
Even so, I slowly getting more bold about it and I plan to get some woman's jeans in the near future.

For me, you could count it as "politics" if by that you mean challenging a social construction with no real basis except this weird idea that your clothing defines your gender which has grown into people, probably since after the dark ages onwards.
It's also a dare, and to a limited extent it is sexual, but more than that it's the way it makes me feel. I get a confidence boost, and the idea that I'm (more or less) secretly doing something that people around me could consider unfit or even appaling also gives me an anti-establishment mental boost.
I don't know what to say about the vulnerability thing, I can't rule it out totally, so I think I'm gonna blame it on my subconscious.

[KimberlyS]

...... perspectives of other folks on this board on a type of behavior that I am confused about but feel a strong need for. It is the wearing of women's clothing in public. I don't try to appear as a woman but rather want to blur gender lines etc. However, what I feel most strongly about is to not let societal conventions dictate what I can and cannot wear.

Minou I feel a strong need to do this also. Around home and this small town I alway present a male or full femme image that will protect my family/kids. My full femme CDing is mostly between the door and my car on the way out of town. But it is surprising the femme clothing a person can wear and still present a male image. Away from home and those that know me I with either will wear a mix of male and femme clothes yet presenting my male self or do a full femme image depending on my mood and location.

... Is it politics? Is it a dare? Is it sexual? Is it about putting myself into a vulnerable situation?

For me it is about being who I am as a person. As long as I can remember I have always been a guy with a mix of masculine and feminine traits. Not being able to present who I am outside of the house to me is like being held hostage in my own home.

But what about you?
Who else is doing this?
What are you wearing?
In what situation do you wear these things? Work, home, family, special friends, strangers?
What do you know about your motivation?
What emotions do you experience when you wear mixed cloths?

My CDing runs a wide spectrum from just around the apartment through some minor under dressing and all femme unisex male presentation. Then on to a mix of male and femme yet presenting my male self all the way to full feminine presentation.

I am doing it and seem to confuse many on my variety of CDing.

What I wear depends on my mood and where I am at. I live in a small town with my kids and know it would not be good for them if I came out as a CDer. So around this area I only present society acceptable images of male or female.

My motivation is this is who I am.

My emotions is mostly of comfort being able to align my masculine and feminine moods and feelings with matching clothing that I have been taught by society that is acceptable for the matching feelings and moods. There is also a stress relief factor that comes in times of higher stress. But the stress relief also plays into the fact that I am an emotional person and society says female/feminine is the emotional one.

An additional motivation, for lack of a better term, for me I have figured out me the last several months has been my wife. The more my wife distanced herself from our marriage and the more mentally abusive she was the more I needed to CD. This aligns with the stress relief factor also.

kimberlys cd
joe in a skirt

[Virginia]

Jeans, what can I say? Most of mine are feminine, but who looks? Some have embroidered stitching on the pockets or the little swan on the watch pocket, or the shortened zipper but who cares! My tennis shoes have a pink line on them, but they fit and they are comfortable. I have several "neutral" long sleeve silk blouse that I wear, once in a while compliments from other girls, "nice shirt!"

I wear a bit of mascara as it just makes my eyes seem brighter, bet no one notices!

The other day, I did get called on my artificial nails! They are painted a somewhat neutral color and the girl at Lowe's just said, "nice nails" as she was costing out the 4 - 2'x 10" by 12's I was buying. I just told her they were safety equipment. That caught the attention of a couple of "contractors" standing in line. I told her that since I had been wearing them I had not had a single hand injury (which is true!) as they made me think were I was putting my hands before I did something stupid. She nodded like, well that makes sense and no comments or laughs from any other folks in line who all over heard the conversation. Wonder how many of them are now wearing glue on nails at work?? Of course gloves help but I don't always wear them as they can get in the way.

I have painted toenails all the time. I shave all of me! and a spritz of perfume before I go out too! The other items for me a standard daily faire and I don't even thing about it. Panties, sometimes hose, a cami, no big deal it is all I have anyway.

Be yourself and have fun!

Virginia

[Anita]

Hi Minou--
My gender-mixing in public is very slight, and really not intentional. I wear out many pairs of jeans at work, and I buy both men's and women's at local thrift stores. But my motivation is just being practical--I can find more things that fit that way.

Of course, I would have never thought of doing that if I hadn't already had experience with buying and wearing women's clothing. I don't think the average guy would take a chance on someone spotting the "Liz Clabourne" label that's on one of my jeans. Most of the time, though, no one can tell one pair of jeans from another.

Before I recognized that I needed to present a female identity out in public, I bought a woman's silk jacket, that I intended to wear as a stage costume. It just never happened, though--it didn't seem to work for me to do partial.

I have a good friend who does exactly what you're describing. He takes it to extremes, dressing with skirt, hose, and heels from the waist down, and all male above, (including beard.) It works for him to go out this way, and he seldom gets harassed. Below is a post I wrote about a trip we made together to another town, and the reactions we got.
You can also read his explanation for why he dresses as he does.

http://www.crossdressers-haven.com/foru ... santa+cruz

[DanteCarrie (FTM)]

I wear men's clothes as in underwear and shirts and androgynous styled jackets.
My stuff probs just looks butch but i bet no one knows I'm crossdressing because its harder to CD as a woman as its more 'done' that girls wear boyish stuff.
I just look like a dyke and been called it too lol maybe thats why I'm wearing it cas I'm queer so i have butch/androgynous leanings.

I think it would be fun to be mistaken for a man but i will never pass as one. I'm tiny and delicate featured. its ok.

I guess for me its fun, its an lgbt culture thing, but mainly it makes me feel powerful and more dominant and the underwear is a very sexual thing as i can fantasise about my guy self lol. but i still like the way i look as a woman too.
Obviously cas i don't attempt to pass sometimes to the more observent perhaps it is obvious that I'm CDing or at least dressing butch but i think I'm just seen as dressing in keeping with the lesbian scene 'look' ironically i have a boyfriend.
but yeah thats what i do

[Bernice]

Call me chicken, but I never intentionally mix external clothing gender. It's either en-drab, or all out try to pass mode.

I am probably that way due to having been verbally assaulted once back in 1976, while en-femme in our own apartment.

That's not to say that I've never worn Women's jeans en-drab. I have, just not in order to be in anyone's face about it. Also women's shoes (they fit my narrow feet better).

I've also come to realize while en-drab that not all Women's blouses have the buttons on the wearer's left (where I expect them), but again, that wasn't intentional.

Hugs,

Bernice

[Minou]

Thank you all for your responses.

To be frank, I was hoping to get more descriptive responses about what you are all wearing, but am actually very happy with the emotional and analytical commentary you provided.

Thanks!

[Minou]

What I wear depends on my mood and where I am at.

Kimberly, could you please say more about what you wear when you are in the right place and mood? Thanks!

[DanteCarrie (FTM)]

LOL ok what I'm wearing. ha I feel like I'm on a dirty phone call j/k.

erm well right now I'm just wearing boxers as i just woke up.
erm often I'll wear shirts from burton like button up shirts. they are both pin strip one is red and blue one is grey i need a plain black shirt to go more semi formal. erm i have another shirt from burton my partner calls my backstreet boys shirt but i don't get why. I also have my suit many ties one with skulls on which i love.
erm i recently bought a man's top from soho which fits me great its black and has this cool skull and studded sword thing going on at the front.
i wear alot of thick belts to be more masc
ooo theres my red skull top from topman. now that i say it I'm seeing a pattern with the skulls lol. partner says i look like a gay man in it great i guess.
erm i love my black blue stripped boys y fronts they feel really good.
oh i have my tails and cravat and waist coat and white shirt for weddings and formal things.
my mum is ordering me this awesome 18th century style man's shirt that i might wear to my sister's wedding.
appart from that i just have my baggy goth trousers. technically girls but hard core goth can be quite gender neutral and the big goth boots are quite butch. my androgynous jacket with shoulder pads and rolled up sleeves I've been told is very gay.
and then i just try to wear plain loosish fitting jeans and flat shoes like coverses or walking boots. oh and wear no makeup or just cover stick, thicken my eye brows with mascare tie the long part of my hair into a ponytail and gell up all the top layer of my hair.
That is offically all the genderbendy crossdressing stuff i own *pants fr breath* happy?

[Minou]

Lovely! Thank you for sharing. Big smile :D

[Kimberly Kael]

I spent several years presenting quite the gender mix as part of my slow fade from living as male to living as female. While I'd been dressing at home for quite a while it was getting progressively more important to me to express myself in the rest of my life. Although it varied a little over time, in general once I added a new feminine element I was reluctant to return to my former attire. In rough order of change I did the following ...

Piercing my ears was the first visible step. I started with simple studs and graduated to simple small hoops and then to progressively more feminine options. I didn't wear anything dangly to work until after I'd transitioned but I wore some very overtly feminine earrings on weekends when I was still presenting in "mixed mode."

Nice lacy feminine socks, tights, or hose were something I felt I could wear just about anywhere and so I replaced my entire sock drawer in fairly short order.

Feminine pants are wonderful because the difference can be fairly subtle, with one major exception. Most pants designed for women have no pockets to speak of, so I also started carrying a purse. In fact I carried a purse for an entire year at work before I transitioned.

Shoes run the gamut from fairly subtle sandals that are just a bit more decorative than the masculine variety, to really overt designs and obvious heels. I wore a lot of boots with obvious heels and other women's shoes on weekends, but stuck to fairly metrosexual items at work until I was ready to out myself completely.

Blouses and other tops designed for women that appealed to me were generally quite obvious, but I wore these on weekends and evenings for quite a while as well. I just didn't add them to my work wardrobe until I came to work as a woman.

Skirts and dresses weren't something my wife was comfortable with out of the house, so I kept them at home until the time was right to go public with my new gender.

I found that presenting a mixed-gender message was more challenging for other people than sticking to one role or another. It puts them in the awkward position of not being able to categorize you easily and creates linguistic hurdles because playing the pronoun avoidance game can be really tricky. That said, if it feels like you by all means get out there dressed the way that feels right! Just know that it can create unique social challenges. It was a really important part of exploring my gender identity and I certainly don't regret having done so.

[Kittie]

I spent several years presenting quite the gender mix as part of my slow fade from living as male to living as female. While I'd been dressing at home for quite a while it was getting progressively more important to me to express myself in the rest of my life. Although it varied a little over time, in general once I added a new feminine element I was reluctant to return to my former attire. In rough order of change I did the following ...

Piercing my ears was the first visible step. I started with simple studs and graduated to simple small hoops and then to progressively more feminine options. I didn't wear anything dangly to work until after I'd transitioned but I wore some very overtly feminine earrings on weekends when I was still presenting in "mixed mode."

Nice lacy feminine socks, tights, or hose were something I felt I could wear just about anywhere and so I replaced my entire sock drawer in fairly short order.

Feminine pants are wonderful because the difference can be fairly subtle, with one major exception. Most pants designed for women have no pockets to speak of, so I also started carrying a purse. In fact I carried a purse for an entire year at work before I transitioned.

Shoes run the gamut from fairly subtle sandals that are just a bit more decorative than the masculine variety, to really overt designs and obvious heels. I wore a lot of boots with obvious heels and other women's shoes on weekends, but stuck to fairly metrosexual items at work until I was ready to out myself completely.

Blouses and other tops designed for women that appealed to me were generally quite obvious, but I wore these on weekends and evenings for quite a while as well. I just didn't add them to my work wardrobe until I came to work as a woman.

Skirts and dresses weren't something my wife was comfortable with out of the house, so I kept them at home until the time was right to go public with my new gender.

I found that presenting a mixed-gender message was more challenging for other people than sticking to one role or another. It puts them in the awkward position of not being able to categorize you easily and creates linguistic hurdles because playing the pronoun avoidance game can be really tricky. That said, if it feels like you by all means get out there dressed the way that feels right! Just know that it can create unique social challenges. It was a really important part of exploring my gender identity and I certainly don't regret having done so.

I find this a very good and encouraging message

• I wear panties since they are more comfortable than pants
  I wear a skirt every night
  I have thought about pierced ears but perhaps a bit shy in executing tehy idea
  I use female tops at home
  Dresses have to come yet but will
  I find female hose more comfortable than socks & use tights, knee-highs and hold-ups
  I try & use a manbag when Ican
  How did you change your hair style or was it a wig? Unfortuantely have a beard
  What about nail varnish
  I only sleep in a nightie (short in Summer and long in winter except when away)
  I use fem deordorant
  I haven't fem pants (trousers) but I am looking for fem shorts
  I have used a shimmel at gym

[Absaroka]

Minou this is a great topic.

I seem to remember you here from a while ago but maybe I am wrong.

First off what do I wear?

It depends. In open mode around my family I'll wear unisex womens clothing. For example I have sandals that are very comfortable that look sort of like womens sandals although I bought them in the mens section. I asked my teenage daughter about them and she said they were unisex and currently fashionable. But I find them comfortable even though they are stylish and were fashionable when I bought them several years ago.

I wear leggings as long underwear in the winter. I wear womens sleeveless tees under my regular undershirt (extra layer of warmth and form fitting) in the winter.

I wear my wifes sweats and tees and we have a communal sock drawer. In the past with other girlfriends ( a very long time ago) we would wear each others jeans and flannel shirts. We also have a set of communal winter fleece vests and coats.

All the above gets worn anywhere and everywhere, including the locker room at the gym.

Once in a while I have no clean underwear and openly borrow my wifes utilitarian panties. Once in a while to the gym, men don't stare at each others underwear and they look unisex except for no fly.

Most of this is about comfort or affection towards the person who's clothing is borrowed. I'll wear my daughters sweatshirt also. Even if they fit I would never wear her panties.

Onto my femme private persona.

Here's my favorite winter outfit. Either leggings or thigh highs with garter belt. Socks from the communal sock drawer, and warm slippers or when outdoors appropriate male outdoor winter footwear Panties. Bra and either slip or camisole. A long warm skirt. A long warm top. Probably both of these are solid quiet colors. Unless the top is some sort of sweater I'll wear a guy flannel shirt or fleece over.

In public I'll wear my guy jeans. Since I don't like how the bra feels without the inserts I usually don't wear it when I underdress.

Warm weather is similar except no leggings and I absolutely love a long skirt with a sleeveles tee or cami.

Really hot weather goes back to guy mode with a pair of short pants and not much else.

Why do I wear these clothes. It has to do with who I am, but that's a non answer unless I talk about who that person is.

We can start with what I don't wear if I can possibly help it. Formal male clothing. As in coat and tie. Funerals and that's about it. Most of all I hate the constriction and confinement. They are clothing after all designed to make it impossible to do physical work and thus show that you are not blue collar. I guess there is some reverse snobbery in there too. Plus the fact that I'm hard on clothing, and delicate clothing gets destroyed (all my thigh highs have runs in them)

So how do the womens clothing become an expression of who I am? Not by revealing my inner feminine side. I have lots of other ways to do that which are more effective. It has to do with liking the dare, liking the secret in plain sight. To do with giving society the finger on the sly.

For some like Dante Carrie, if you're involved in the GLBT community it doesn't seem so unusual. But among the people I associate with it would be unusual. Even the drag queens I know would draw the line at long gray hair, sleeveless tee, and granny dress with a beard.

But here's the thing I think it's about. I started like so many of us, when I was about 8. And it was not only a sexual thrill at the time, it was the deepest secret I had. An incredibly secret longing. And that longing stayed hidden for so long that it's just such a relief to act on it in a vaguely non secretive way.

I don't do clubs and hate shopping. But it is an incredible thrill to walk through the woods in a skirt. As if I am expressing the part of me that want's to be as free, as beautiful, and as fearsome (you know how much we scare people) as the mountains I used to climb. Of course for years I did that in guy mode also, so really, why the skirt?

There's another dynamic going on although it wasn't present for obvious reasons when I was younger. Notice what I said in the last paragraph. As free and beautiful as the mountains. These are things we associate with youth. My female persona is a girl. Not a woman. She'll weed the garden and chop wood, but those were chores I had as a boy. She is young. I however am in my mid 50's. So to use the proper psycho babble, all these clothes are my way of playing, of having fun.

As I've so often said, for many of the people here this is deadly serious, a question of who they really are. Calling it playing dress up is deeply offensive to them. However for me, and only for me, unless you want to include yourself here, that is exactly what it is.

My what a long and confusing answer. I think I've given you several different reasons for several different clothing choices here, but I never said I was simple.

I hope someone was able to wade through this answer and enjoy it.


Zari