Uncertain Foundation

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:17 am

I've been wearing makeup for nearly a year now and I've had endless problems with foundation. This is a kind of rambling post about that. I'm not sure what the point of it is other than I want to say this stuff.

I don't know about everybody else, but one of my main problems is, being a man, the whole makeup thing is like an undiscovered continent. You don't know what's there, what traps there are, how things relate to one another etc., etc.. So I've bought a couple of CD makeup videos - one from Transformation (a CD shop) and the other from The Boudoir (a dressing service). They're alright and very basic (which is sensible) and I think have kind of worked on me in a subconscious way (mostly), so I get some sort of idea of the ordering of the products, which bits go where, etc. etc. (At one point, for example I was using mascara as eye-liner!).

A lot of it has also gone in in a conscious way - to do with eye makeup, lips and blusher. But I still found that I couldn't get the foundation to work. My problem always seems to be that it blisters and flakes and comes off pretty soon after putting it on. The videos used either liquid foundation or panstick, and I had problems with both.

So one day, when I didn't have a lot of time, I just applied a light coating of powder foundation which I had previously used as a filler (for gaps etc) and it stayed on! Eureka. The problem was, of course, the coverage wasn't too good and I couldn't apply lots of powder foundation and have it cohere and stick in a decent way. So I took to using a solid, kind of creamy, foundation (Boots no 7), lightly applied to give the powder foundation something to adhere to. This worked with powder on top of that. It's a decent enough result, but the coverage still seemed less than pictures of CDs you see. So, looking at the posts here, I saw one (Thankyou Virginia et al.) recommending Maybelline Dream Matte Mousse. This goes on over the cream foundation and before the powders.

I think I am more or less satisfied with that. The coverage looks pretty good to me (or maybe I'm kidding myself). But what a business! 4 different layers of stuff before you get down to applying everything that goes over the top (and I also have major problems with my eyebrows - some other time). There must be an easier way....

And still, to be honest, I'm not sure. I still kind of expect the whole thing to fall apart at a moments notice...

Paula G · Post by **Paula G** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:31 am

It's not easy is it, and to make life even harder it's difficult to ask. I am not in the position of being able to watch my wife, since she very rarely wears any makeup, and when she does a little goes a long way.

I have found that aliquid foundation, then powder etc works for me, I use a bit of conceller over mybeard under teh foundation, but the main thing I have found to help me is I use a moisteriser everyday, especially before putting any makeup on.

What was a great help to me, one day I was looking at the makeup in Superdrug in Streatham, at the time I was quite obviously a man in a dress, a sales assistant took pity on me and spent quite abit of time helping me choose products, matching them to my skin tones and advising on combinations. I havn't seen her there for a while, maybe I have just been at the wrong time, but I am very gratefull to her, not only for the help, but the boost she gave to my confidence as Paula

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:41 am

I went to Debenhams in Sheffield and asked them. I was sat down in a chair and the assistant tried several foundations on the inside of my forearm to get a colour match. In the end I got one that does a good job when I make up. I am fortunate in that I do not need a concealer.

Debenhams and John Lewis are fully aware of us and welcome us in their shops Don't be shy I had a great experience in their store. Good hunting.

Post by **DonnaT** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:47 pm

Four layers should never be necessary.

Maybe if you explained each step in your application, we may find a possible work around.

For Example, I first wipe off any oil residue with alcohol, then apply a moisturizer as a base. This must be allowed to dry completely before proceeding to applying the foundation.

For the foundation, I'll use a concealer (Cover Girl) where their are blemishes and darker groupings of hairs (under nose, etc.)

Next I apply a L'Oreal foundation (Visible Lift, I think), go lightly, more can always be added if needed.

I then apply my blush and top that with a translucent (Prescriptive's Magic) powder.

Foundation can be tricky, but isn't real hard. Go lightly.

And it depends on your skin type. If you have oily skin, which can cause flaking, you'll want one that's best for oily skin. Laura Mercier's liquid foundation gets high praise from beauty editors.

MAC Studio Fix powder foundation is perfect for women with oily skin who want to minimize the appearance of large pores.

Revlon Colorstay is considered best for women with dry skin.

You can also combine the moisturizing with the coloring, using Clairon's tinted moisturizer. You'll get the moisturizer and the tan without the need for a heavy foundation.

Cover Girl Aquasmooth is a cream foundation considered the best of both worlds to women with dry, flaky skin: Total coverage and rich moisturizers.

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:23 pm

DonnaT wrote:Four layers should never be necessary.

Maybe if you explained each step in your application, we may find a possible work around.

For Example, I first wipe off any oil residue with alcohol, then apply a moisturizer as a base. This must be allowed to dry completely before proceeding to applying the foundation.

For the foundation, I'll use a concealer (Cover Girl) where their are blemishes and darker groupings of hairs (under nose, etc.)

Next I apply a L'Oreal foundation (Visible Lift, I think), go lightly, more can always be added if needed.

I then apply my blush and top that with a translucent (Prescriptive's Magic) powder.

Foundation can be tricky, but isn't real hard. Go lightly.

Wash, shave...Then

Lightish covering of Boots No 7 Compact Foundation (which I think has more or less the consistency of a concealer but comes in a round basin). I found that if I use much more the whole thing starts to peal and flake.

Bulk up the coverage with Maybelline Dream Matte Mouse. For some reason adding this (at least in the relatively small experience I've had of it) doesn't seem to affect how much it starts to flake.

Powder with No 7 Powder foundation until the area around the mouth (which is where it always starts to peal) loses much of its moisture.

Powder with Collection 2000 translucent Power (a cheap powder) until face feels dry (I always wonder if the fact that this is a cheap product is a mistake).

After that all the rest of the stuff - eyes, blush, mouth (in that order). Before I do the mouth (or sometimes blush), I check to see if/where areas of the foundation need repair.

I might as well mention that when I was using liquid foundation I could never work out when the right time was to apply powder. Like when it was dry (when the powder seemed to destroy the skin formed) or when it was wet (when loads of the foundation seemed to end up on the powder brush and the result was blotchy at best).

And it depends on your skin type. If you have oily skin, which can cause flaking, you'll want one that's best for oily skin. Laura Mercier's liquid foundation gets high praise from beauty editors.

MAC Studio Fix powder foundation is perfect for women with oily skin who want to minimize the appearance of large pores.

When I was young (i.e. teenage) I definitely did have oily skin. I've never noticed it since, but maybe that's the root of the problem.

Revlon Colorstay is considered best for women with dry skin.

You can also combine the moisturizing with the coloring, using Clairon's tinted moisturizer. You'll get the moisturizer and the tan without the need for a heavy foundation.

Cover Girl Aquasmooth is a cream foundation considered the best of both worlds to women with dry, flaky skin: Total coverage and rich moisturizers.

I confess to not really knowing anything about moisturizers...

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:34 pm

I use Simple light moisturiser every day - works for me and has no perfume

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:45 pm

Thanks Paula and Susan. Soon after I started wearing makeup (and just after I'd bought the core wig I use), I went into Boots High Street Kensington and asked for advice. I said it was for me and that I had an idea of the colour scheme I wanted to go with the wig. I also said that I needed some brushes. The sales assistant was very good and pointed me at many of the products that I still use (I've just changed the eye-shadow a bit). But we didn't talk about foundation at all (that I can remember). I think I was still using a liquid foundation at that point (maybe Collection 2000), but I can't really remember. But, given what you say, it may be a good idea to go back to a store and ask for specific advice on foundation.

Maybe Debenham's in Oxford Street, where I have a store card and have bought nice stuff - and where they always seem to have sales assistants waiting around in the makeup department on the ground floor looking for custom. So far I've been too embarassed to stop, but....

Tara M · Post by **Tara M** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:50 pm

I'm lucky in that my first wife was a model and knew how to put make-up on like a pro and my mother always wore lots of make-up too...

I knew the difference between mascara and eyeliner and that you could use lipstick as eyeshadow and blusher at an early age. Didn't know about full coverage foundation until I started this daft game though!

Post by **DonnaT** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:07 pm

Suggestions:

Reading reviews of Boots No7, some find it tends to flake, and some don't.

It is a cream foundation, not really a concealer.

If you stick with the matte mouse, then try it without the Boots. I doubt mixing two brands of cream foundation will work well.

Don't mix a liquid/cream foundation with a powder foundation (No 7 Powder foundation). Use one or the other.

Tara M · Post by **Tara M** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:12 am

I use a max factor concealer about two shades lighter than my natural skin tone over the worst areas then MAC full coverage over the top.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:05 am

I think the diversity of replies shows we are all different. The "ask for advice" technique worked for me and was certainly cheaper than picking foundation at random and trying it.

In regard to my previous post in this thread, Debenhams have a positive attitude to us. I even have my own Beauty Club card in Susan's name. The SA's have always been very helpful to me so don't be shy, your money is just as useful as any GGs

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:28 am

DonnaT wrote:Suggestions:

Reading reviews of Boots No7, some find it tends to flake, and some don't.

It is a cream foundation, not really a concealer.

If you stick with the matte mouse, then try it without the Boots. I doubt mixing two brands of cream foundation will work well.

Don't mix a liquid/cream foundation with a powder foundation (No 7 Powder foundation). Use one or the other.

I tried leaving out the Boots No 7 cream foundation last night. The problem I had was that I found I could only apply so much of the matte mouse with my finger before it started to become very uneven, moving previous areas of application about (I've previously had this sort of problem using a brush and the cream foundation. This may well speak to my enormous lack of technique). So I ended up quite quickly using the powder foundation to bulk up the coverage. Like before I put on enough to get the face close to dryish, but the mouth area still looked lacking in coverage. So I did another coat of matte mouse there with some more powder foundation over the top. This gave a decent amount of coverage and didn't flake. It also lost some of the powderiness around the edges that my previous efforts produced. The coverage wasn't quite as good as before, but it seemed to wear at a similar rate. There was some blotchiness (Like areas where there was thicker foundation than others), but I was quite tired by that time.

The reason I got the idea that it was alright to use powder foundation with other types is the original brand I used (Collection 2000) said you could use it as a powder (just that) as well. So I figured you could use this sort of stuff with other foundations generally. Which may be entirely dumb...

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:42 am

Tara M wrote:I'm lucky in that my first wife was a model and knew how to put make-up on like a pro and my mother always wore lots of make-up too...

I knew the difference between mascara and eyeliner and that you could use lipstick as eyeshadow and blusher at an early age. Didn't know about full coverage foundation until I started this daft game though!

I've never been married. Women don't seem to "get" me (which I don't think is anybody's "fault", by the way). The women I've been around don't seem to have used much makeup. The closest interaction I've had with it was when I was 9 and played Titania in a school play and had this "stuff" smeared on my face.

I think it's a "daft game" too. But a pretty good one, and fun.

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:01 am

Tara: Mac seems to come up quite a lot as brand of choice amongst CDs, but I don't seem to have managed to see it in shops.

Susan: I agree with your comments about diversity. But I do kind of think there's a point in talking this stuff through and seeing what happens. I just feel there's so much wrong with my makeup I want to pick up what I can where I can.

I am shy about going in a shop and, particularly, them applying makeup. For me that's the most feminising process involved in the dressing up and I know my face moulds itself into kind of the look of a woman when I put it on. The whole thing of me being in that zone in front of people gives me pause.

Post by **DonnaT** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:04 pm

The key word is "lightly".

If the foundation is moving around, it's either too thick, or you've got silicone for skin.

Now, it's supposed to be able to move, of course, so that it can be spread evenly, but it should adhere to where you first applied it as well.

Don't cake it on. Once the face is covered, use a damp application sponge, to smooth it out even further. And go from the middle towards the edges in each step.

If you have silicone for skin

, you may need a foundation primer base coat.

For full coverage MAC, you'll probably have to go to a stand-alone MAC store, instead of a MAC counter in some department store. Don't be afraid to ask for help.