the problem with those #@%! crossdressers

Ralitsa · Post by **Ralitsa** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:29 pm

is that the normal ones are invisible and the others are gross. This is the rant I promised a few days ago, and is inspired by the thing you will see if you do a web search for "crossdresser". Now we all know that we all have done that at least once, and what comes up is not pretty. What are these people thinking, that plastering nasty photos of their hairy, ugly things all over is sexy because they have on some little pink thong? And if it's not that then it's some site trying to sell trashy, overpriced costumes that no one in their right mind would ever wear in public. Now if I'm a crossdresser, and my goal in life is to be like a woman, why in the world would I waste money on crazy stuff that no woman would go near?
That is only part of the reason I'm annoyed about it. Mostly this stuff makes public opinion. The first thing anyone does when they want to find out what crossdressing is really about is to do a Google search. So then the first thing they find is some site making excuses about how crossdressers are not gay or perverted, they just like to wear pretty clothes, but by the way you can buy strange unimaginable toys on this site, and for a nominal fee you can download video of the little sissy boy and 25 big black guys. Now I don't care if someone is gay, or what sort of things they like to do or who they like to do them with, the problem is that it's dishonest.
So let's just ignore all that crap because they are just trying to swindle someone, and look at the news. Here you see headlines like:
"crossdressing bandit robs a bank"
"crossdressing rapist finally captured"
"crossdresser caught sneaking into women locker room"
"crossdresser arrested flashing school kids"
"crossdresser selling drugs, illegal weapons, and votes for the opposition party"
"crossdressers gather in Tokoyo to plot the destruction of the universe"

Never, anywhere do you ever see or hear about the crossdresser who only wanted to have a quiet dinner in a nice restaraunt wearing a new evening gown. The most positive thing you might hear is that an innocent crossdresser was murdered while minding their own business and bothering nobody.
OK, so everyone know that the news people are just doing anything they can to get attention. And all sorts of weird people are compelled to post pictures that we don't want to see at all. But where are the normal crossdressers? We all know the answer: we are here. So my mission is to change the worlds attitude towards crossdressers. I will prove to the world that crossdressers are not terrorists, marxists, anarchists, antichrists, antipastas, nor even scottish wannabes, or australian wallabes, but only simple fashion failures who are only trying real hard to figure out which shoes go best with this dress.
So I call on you all to help me: put on your cutest outfit and go out and go shopping, the fate of the world is in your hands!!!!

Michelle M · Post by **Michelle M** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:11 pm

Wait, we AREN'T gathering in Tokyo to plot the destruction of the universe? I'm going to have to cross that off my calendar.

I do agree that Google has it out for us and that the freaky CDs are the ones that give the rest of us a bad name.

Paula G · Post by **Paula G** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:49 am

It wasn't Tokyo!

By our very nature we are secretive, and ideally do not want to be seen - at least not recognised as cross dressers, the last thing I want to look like is a transvestite!

There are some who have a very sensible and sensitive web presence - our own Davita for one - and some very good blogs http://www.femulate.org/ and http://youcancallmemeg.blogspot.com/ the thing is the nasty sites are commercial so they pull all the strings to get to the top of the search results, we humble blogers just don't have that sort of clout.

Now when I am out at a gallery, museum, lunch shopping, whatever I just want to be another woman in the crowd, maybe a little more made up and a little taller than most, but I do not want to stand out and be obvious. Even if I do not pass (which I probably don't) I don't want to draw attention to myself and embarrass other people. But then you say how will other people stop being embarrassed unless we raise our profile?

Just be, and be nice?

Absaroka · Post by **Absaroka** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:51 am

When I go out I like to blend in and not be noticed. So I go where no one will notice me, like walking in the woods at night.

I like Ralitsa's rant. We do need to remember that for many this is simply a sexual thing and nothing more. Mostly those people don't spend that much time at this site because of our parameters. But we need to respect their existence.

I do agree with much of what Ralitsa says. Sure it would be fun to go out in public and blend in. After all I enjoy blending in when in guy mode, and tend to seek out places where I fit in. But the truth is I am unwilling to do all the stuff I'd have to do to try to blend in while in female mode, it's just too much work. And so except for Halloween I either keep my girl self to myself, or portray her as such a tomboy that she is mistaken for a man.

Zari

Gillian · Post by **Gillian** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:12 am

I understand, and I get it from a different front also. As a christian, I see the news media do the same thing. As the cartoon goes, "this guy is watching the news broadcast and the news announcer says. And now represneting the christian perspective: The biggest crackpot we could find....". The guy watching just sighs. What choice does he, or we have when it comes to being at the mercy of the news media.

Anita · Post by **Anita** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:31 am

This was pre-Internet, but I had no idea that men went out dressed as women, and just did the normal things that any woman would do. I knew about drag performers, but that was about the extent of my experience.
I'd never seen a CD out in the world, that I can remember.

I had read about Christine Jorgenson and Renee Richards, but I never thought about their transition periods. And even after I was aware that there were MtF's out there, I still didn't think about it. It was like, "Poof," and the surgery was done, and they put on a dress the next day! I just didn't know.

Ten years ago, I didn't run into the sensational on my Google search. I found at least five CD websites that were a great help to me. Since then, the big players have learned how to work the per-click payment plans, and the more lurid sites do go to the top. And the ads that support CD sites are often sleazy.

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:06 pm

Well, the central bit of CDing for the general public is the sexual side. This is reflected in the American psychiatric establishment view of it, which construes CDs as sexual perverts. As I've said before, I think this is because the idea of men who value women so much that they want to be like them - and so dress up like them - is deeply threatening to society in general. So, in order to devalue such people (us) they have to invent a category which says we don't have to be listened to. Hence sexual perverts - i.e beyond the pale.

The basic reason, then, you get so many stories that accentuate the sexual side - and particularly the tackiest and most lurid elements of it - is to hold up this view of CDs as beyond the pale. But, even with "positive" CD related stories, you're still going to be in thrall to the perceived need to "entertain" your audience (if not, no audience). This means you've got to have a story. The one we all know is CD/TS/TG individual triumphs over bigots (in whatever form). There is no mileage in doing a piece (in whatever media) on someone who goes out dressed up and then nothing much happens. This happens to be the ideal, unrealised or otherwise, of most people here - and doubtless a large section of the CDing population.

The other thing that needs to be said is that, from my small experience, there is a side of the CDing community which goes for over the top, loud gowns to be shown off clubbing. Like the two specialist CD shops I know of in London don't do "quiet" clothes, while "The Way Out" club (an important CDing club in London) does (apparently) have a significant sexual side.

I buy makeup from one of my local(ish) chemists where the woman behind the till used to give me a coolish reception. One day a woman who looked like a druggy started to give her trouble - and you could see the thing was going to get out of hand. I was lucky enough to just say the right thing at the right time to close the situation. And from then on the cashier was friendly. It doesn't seem much - and probably in the long term it isn't much - but at least it did turn this woman around about me.

If I had to guess, I would say that the best way for CDs to move forward is to build bridges to feminists - they seem to distrust us as much as anyone else. Because, as I've indicated before, I think we have a big interest in common - namely increasing the valuation of women by society. Like if women were valued as highly as men, why would it be such a big deal for a man to want to be (dress) like a woman?

[Edit] I feel as though I'm getting beaten over the head by so many of the CD sites out there. It's just kind of wearing and unpleasant ploughing through all this lurid, sexually-based stuff. And I do have an important sexual side to my CDing. So I don't know how representative these sites can be, even for someone like me.

Not very, if my experience is anything to go by.

Anita · Post by **Anita** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:06 am

Anthony Simon wrote:

As I've said before, I think this is because the idea of men who value women so much that they want to be like them - and so dress up like them - is deeply threatening to society in general.

It is threatening, but it also doesn't make any sense to the average person. Especially to men--they can't draw on any experience of their own that would explain why another man would do this.

And yeah, who wants to hear about a guy who goes out and does this "sensational" thing, (dresses like a woman), and nothing unusual happens?
There needs to be a story.

Carolynn · Post by **Carolynn** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:38 am

Chicken or the Egg? What comes first, the acceptance by society or calling attention to oneself to make the acceptance, well, acceptable. If they do not know you exist, then they will not pay attention. If they don't pay attention, then negative publicity is the only thing they know one by. And as others have pointed out, therein lies the problem. You have to have enough guts to let it all hang out, face losing family, jobs, position, everything you might hold dear. Doesn't mean you WILL lose those things, but the chances are still high.

TS face those things trying, individually' to be who they really are, and it is a rough time for many, but there is increasing understanding with publicity and news articles like on CNN. Those help, and even Chaz going on DWTS was a positive representative, though the creeps that hide behind an internet connection and flood responses are always ready to poke fault and harass a person from the annonymity, and those that want to do so, use that to claim to form public opinion. Cowardly little rats, you know.

Or maybe the activist refrain: "Can't make an Omlette without breaking a few eggs. Rough on the future chickens, but a darn good result." And so they argue that in order for acceptance to happen one must be prepared to "bleed in the streets". The Civil Rights movement and the Gay Pride movement show that it can work, if you try to at least remain positive and find positive stories for the media to at least mention. And if you can't find those, then raise enough ruckus that they can't ignore you. And there are sympathetic people in the media. Their voice needs to be loud enough to cut through the political and religious bull crap, and taken from the GLBT rags into the mainstream. With the Net, that can and does happen.

Stu Rasmussen (www.sturasmussen.com) is one of the few declared crossdressers that has unabashedly lived his life in the open in dresses, declaring himself and running for election, and being mayor of his town. So far as I know he continues to consider himself as a crossdresser, not a TS? But he is first and formost the mayor. Not sure, actually, if he still is.

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:27 am

Anita wrote:Anthony Simon wrote:
As I've said before, I think this is because the idea of men who value women so much that they want to be like them - and so dress up like them - is deeply threatening to society in general.
It is threatening, but it also doesn't make any sense to the average person.

Quite a lot of girls are tomboys when they're young. My take on that is they want to be boys in part of them. I've been asked (by a woman) if I wanted to be a woman and I replied that part of me does and part of me doesn't think it's such a great idea.

Especially to men--they can't draw on any experience of their own that would explain why another man would do this.

I don't know where I'm going with this, but anyway...They can draw on experiences that explain why a man wouldn't want to do this. Like the different ways a man can be humiliated by the idea that he's in some way feminised are legion. In general he would stop being "a man" for his peers if he came out as a CDer. That means he would likely be extruded by the society in which he lives. I'd argue that that is a lot of the problem. People can't understand why someone would risk that.

And yeah, who wants to hear about a guy who goes out and does this "sensational" thing, (dresses like a woman), and nothing unusual happens?
There does have to be a story.

Well my narrative (or story...) goes like this. I have this part of me that's girl. It wants to come out and be expressed, mostly so I know what to do with it in the rest of my life. But because of society's constraints on men being feminine, I've always had massive conflicts about allowing that female side to surface properly. I've always got to go back to the idea that I'm "basically a man". But, honestly, I think I've got to own that there's a large part of me that's basically a woman.

I see society in kind of parallel terms. Like it's got part of it (half!) that is female. It wants to be fully and properly expressed. In my opinion, Western society has to work out how to do that in order to go forward properly. But because of society's pre-existing narratives about feminine being weak, it's always had massive conflicts about allowing the female side to surface properly. So it has had a tendency to fall back into thinking about itself in "male", "heroic" terms...

So I'd argue that CDers fulfil a societal function in giving air to the "female" side of society that is currently repressed. That would be my basic "story". It's about forming a bridge to a new, potentially more potent and vital - because more integrated - society.

Kyra · Post by **Kyra** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:42 am

The sad truth is, that sex sells. It's surely not something most will admit to, but people DO, in fact, pay for sex and sex related material. The Internet has been extremely lucrative to that endeavor.

I was, not so surprised, but surely upset, when I first tried searching for like minded folks on the web in the mid-late 90's. I sifted through quite a bit of junk before I found a few sites worth anything. I mention this fact in some of the Outreach presentations I do. Before the internet, it was even more compicated to find other crossdressers.

So, a blessing or a curse, I suppose it depends on your outlook. I'm rather glad to have the World Wide Web at my fingertips. It has surely helped me find others and realize I'm not alone. I've grown so much and come farther than I originally ever dreamed of, mostly because of what I've seen online.

Anita · Post by **Anita** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:11 pm

Anthony Simon wrote:

I don't know where I'm going with this, but anyway...They can draw on experiences that explain why a man wouldn't want to do this.

Ah, a much better way of saying it--yes, they can all imagine the negative consequences that can and do occur if a man decides to do this. It's not an idle threat, either; society does try to punish us for doing this. It's not just our imaginations.

Carolynn wrote:

Chicken or the Egg? What comes first, the acceptance by society or calling attention to oneself to make the acceptance, well, acceptable. If they do not know you exist, then they will not pay attention. If they don't pay attention, then negative publicity is the only thing they know one by.

This is an issue that keeps coming up for me--if they don't know you exist, they certainly won't pay attention. The mayor Carolynn mentioned is the only person that I'm aware of who is living as an 'out' CD, and not a transitioning woman.

It's unfortunate, but the gains made by MtF women who transition do not necessarily translate into gains for CDs. Even though there is still a lot of prejudice, there are at least some positive articles about women who have successfully transitioned; Jenny Boylan, Donna Rose, and Deirdre McCloskey come to mind. Positive articles about CDs? Other than the Oregon mayor, I can't think of any.

CDs are invisible, even with the Internet. Going to my website, you can read about my experiences as an 'out' CD, but you still won't know anyone like me, or have any personal experience with it. And if you're the average person, you won't be looking up my website--what reason would you have for going there in the first place?

It takes hundreds of day-to-day stories to make any kind of dent in the public consciousness, and it hasn't happened yet. Maybe there will come a time when CD awareness reaches "critical mass," and suddenly there will be stories about us everywhere.

I don't know whether more awareness about CDs will help or hinder transitioning women. My gut reaction is to say that the two are apples and oranges, both with the public and with the women and the CDs themselves. I'd like to be proven wrong on this, but that's my observation of what's going on now. Certainly in my own back yard, CDs and transitioned women are not allies, and that makes me sad. In the future, I would hope that we can come up with some sort of united front to show the public.

Lydia · Post by **Lydia** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:22 pm

Anita, you have hit on a very important distinction: the transitioning vs non-transitioning CD. I am in the second group. I don't want to become a woman, I just want to look and feel like one. I cannot explain why, but I just enjoy it. I suspect that this is true of many of us on this forum. Curiously, in the public eye, we non-trans types are less accepted than the trans types. I sometimes get the feeling that we are considered inferior in some way. Although I must admit it takes a good deal more courage to go through hormone treatments and surgery than to just put a dress and lipstick on.
Personally, I feel as though I am living the best of two worlds. I am lucky to have an understanding SO. Even though I don't go "out" very often, I can dress at home and at Paula's place - and drive en femme to and fro.

Hugs,

Lydia

Paula G · Post by **Paula G** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:02 pm

Anita - I tried your site, and just got the front page, I couldn't link to the blog, I would like to read your writings if they are still live.

Lydia - You are always welcome at Paula's-Place! click on my web link

Anita · Post by **Anita** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:10 pm

Hi Paula--
I cut and pasted the link, and it took me to the blog, so it's still alive. I sent the direct link to you in an email, so maybe that will work better for you.