Back and Forth, To and Fro

[Carolynn]

Dr. Anne Vitale is post-op (as of the early 90s) who is also a therapist largely focusing on gender matters. Among her services on her web site is a section where a SO of a CDer writes a blog containing matters important to CDers and their SOs. This is one on the conrfusion of switching back and forth that some have.

Notes on Gender Role Transition
Anne Vitale PhD, Editor

A Signficant Other View
Going Back and Forth

By Julie Freeman
January, 2012

One of the wives posed an interesting question on our forum. I have been on this forum for probably well over a decade and have never seen it posed before.

"I wonder how things would be different if my DH just wanted to be a girl rather than part male/part female. Do you think it makes it too conflicting having to go back and forth for the spouses?"

I thought that would certainly make an interesting topic at a social get-together of crossdressers and their wives. Is it difficult going back and forth? But for the time being, I can only refer to the responses of other wives on the forum.

http://www.avitale.com/SOBackforth.htm

Though the article is relatively short, I saw that it was likely too long to post in it's full length, so I have included a teaser and the link to the rest. I do recommend giving the other topics a look see. On the left hand side of the page is a series of links to other topics, including more by Ms. Freeman.

[Anita]

One of our group members transitioned at work. That was OK, but the group member showed up male-dressed some days, and female-dressed others. The company didn't like that, and told her that she needed to be consistent. If she was going to transition, then she needed to dress femme. I think she did this partly to ease her wife and daughter into the transition. Her male mode was androgynous, I'm sure, but it needed to be more clear-cut for her workplace.

I've not heard anyone else ever talk about this in group. Almost everyone there is either planning to transition, or already has. So there's no back-and-forth issues per se. The only time it comes up is when there's an important event--wedding or funeral, usually--and the family or the spouse wants the woman to show up dressed male, just for that day. This would be awful for most women to have to do, and I've only known two instances. Both times the women did so, and then never did it again, for any reason.

[Carolynn]

Yes, for a pre-op not fully out to everyone in their lives, it can be kinda hard. And it is rough on everyone, actually. However, the article actually was directed more toward crossdressers and spouses, as I read it, and I had never heard anyone bring it up either, so that was why I posted it here rather than in the "Transgender Issues" topic.

I was hoping for some SO input about it if they felt like it, though that group seems relatively inactive at present.

Vitale has interesting slants on the subject of transgenderism, and on the terminology used. I guess it comes from her life experience. If you go to the web siite and look under FAQS and under the topic of the difference between CDers and TS, you will see what I mean. Also her nomenclature where she comes down on the GID term and instead uses a kind of gender expression anxiety as a descriptor is an advance. I have been one to not be comfortable with the used of a disorder term for Gender variation, and so I find her take to be useful. Aparently the DSM5 use of gender incongruence is one result of her well publicized views and shared by other people "on the continent" and involved with the WPATH guidelines.

[Anthony Simon]

"The reason I think my DH gets depressed when switching back is because he has genuine gender dysphoria . When he is dressed as a woman, and interacting with the world as a woman, he feels right with himself. Going back to guy mode is like, oh yea right, back to my uncomfortable self."

This bit rings true for me, only I put a different spin on it. Often when I go into the clothes there's this tremendous sense of relief - and when I get out it can physically hurt and I can get depressed. But it's not clear to me that's because I'm "really" a woman - though I think there's some element of that in there.

What I do notice is that, while I'm dressed up, the impossible problems I have in my interactions with the outside world as a man disappear - and almost instantaneously (often) they reappear when I take the clothes off. The last time I really didn't want to get out of the clothes, but somehow it felt "too good to be true" to keep them on. When I came back to the world after that I had a really terrible day as a man, but one I needed to face.

For me there's a big element of "taking a rest" from the problems I face as a man in the CDing - Like my life as a man is often uncomfortable. But that doesn't mean it's not right.

[DonnaT]

I know many SOs would prefer there be no switching back and forth. Many, if not most, would prefer their DH would remain in male mode.

Absent that possibility, they are more accepting/tolerant of the switching.

Those that prefer their DH in femme mode are few. Those that prefer their DH stay fem are even fewer.

[Anita]

There’s a lot of food for thought, here. The issue is one that would affect CDs more than transitioners, yes. On this forum, we have the positive examples of Carol Ann, JoAnn Dallas, and Hope, as Cders who spend time enfemme with their wives. (Sorry if I’m missing someone else in that list)
But I’d also go with Donna’s post:

I know many SOs would prefer there be no switching back and forth. Many, if not most, would prefer their DH would remain in male mode.

Anthony wrote:

What I do notice is that, while I'm dressed up, the impossible problems I have in my interactions with the outside world as a man disappear - and almost instantaneously (often) they reappear when I take the clothes off. The last time I really didn't want to get out of the clothes, but somehow it felt "too good to be true" to keep them on. When I came back to the world after that I had a really terrible day as a man, but one I needed to face.

I know the “too good to be true” feeling, and the first three months I went out as a woman, I had to deal with it constantly.

I had black-and-white feelings; exhilaration at presenting the woman inside to the world, and feelings of real fear that she would be taken away again.

It finally dissipated, and I realized that in my case, I was the only one who had the power to take 'her' away. Once I resolved that I would continue to go out, no matter what, I won the right to do so without that particular conflict.

[Davita]

I can't speak for Ro, my better half of 37+ years, but she has never asked me to be one or the other -- dressed male or female. I don't ask her to treat me any different and so she doesn't no matter what I have on.

She has seen me fully fem before I go out and seen the tired old lady when she gets home. She's seen me fully (ha! never) drab before I go out and seen the old tired trans when (s)he gets home. The only time I get a different reaction is when I come home fem and Ro hadn't seen the outfit till then.

The discussion of back and forth holds for us too. It used to take me a full day to change mindsets going back and forth. My days out en fem were not as good early on since it cost me one of the days to be comfortable. And once back to drab, I had to "move slow" to get reoriented to which bathroom, what I could talk about, etc.

[Anthony Simon]

Anthony wrote:

What I do notice is that, while I'm dressed up, the impossible problems I have in my interactions with the outside world as a man disappear - and almost instantaneously (often) they reappear when I take the clothes off. The last time I really didn't want to get out of the clothes, but somehow it felt "too good to be true" to keep them on. When I came back to the world after that I had a really terrible day as a man, but one I needed to face.

I know the “too good to be true” feeling, and the first three months I went out as a woman, I had to deal with it constantly.

With me, it's rare - both for the CDing and in general. I can remember one other time, about 15 months ago, when I had it with the CDing.

Because it's an instinctive thing, one is never quite sure if it's right or not - and there are certainly examples of me "over-riding" my instincts (again rare) and it paying off - but on at least one occasion it has saved me falling into a trap set by someone else.

I had black-and-white feelings; exhilaration at presenting the woman inside to the world, and feelings of real fear that she would be taken away again.

It finally dissipated, and I realized that in my case, I was the only one who had the power to take 'her' away. Once I resolved that I would continue to go out, no matter what, I won the right to do so without that particular conflict.

I have confused the exhiliration I sometimes get from dressing up with "the good to be true" feeling. Because it does actually feel so wonderful sometimes. Actually, now I come to think about it, I think there were a couple of times when I did get "the too good to be true" feeling a few years ago - but 90% of the time it was just wondeful and good. That's a distinction I had to learn to make because, in a way, I wanted an excuse to stop wearing the clothes.

[JoAnnDallas]

There are times when my wife will ask me to dress male, only because where we are going, they know me as a male not as a female. I do this because I don't want my wife to be embarrest. In 3-4 years i will be retired and plan on going full time as JoAnn. We will be moving back to the Virginia/West Virginia area and by going full female mode on the onset will make it a lot easier on both of us. Going back and forth is a chore. If we do not have any plans on seeing family, then I will attach my breast forms onto my chest on Friday evening and not remove them until Monday morning. I asked my wife one time how she felt about me dressing all weekend. She said, that I was still her husband and that how I looked on the outside did not matter to her. she did say that at first she was a little worried what others might say, but after a while she noticed that everyone treated me as the gender I was presenting and now she has no problems going out with me dressed as JoAnn. We once got into a little discussion about who has the most clothes at a dress shop one time. later it dawned on me that we must have sounded like a lesbian couple to the salesperson.

Hugs,

JoAnn