so this is some of the stuff that i found
even in the spectrum of Jewish orthodoxy there is room for interpretation of cding
the violation if there is one comes from the bible man should not dress in women's clothes nor a woman dress i men's clothes
the ultra orthodox interpret that literally! it is a violation to dress in the opposite sexes clothes period.that is why to this day ultra orthodox women do not wear pants!
main stream orthodoxy interpret that passage as only it is a violation if u are trying to pass as the opposite sex.
liberal orthodoxy interpret it as a violation only if u dress in the opposite sexes apparel to have sexual relations (for example m2f cd with a male)
since i have not gone out in fem and if i did it would be only in cd venues and i am not attracted to males in any way interpretation 2 and 3 works for me
i am transgender fluid and i express my fem side by cding but only for myself (at this point)!!
“The woman shall not wear that which pertained unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”
Deuteronomy 22:5
But here is the beginning of the entry on Dress from “The Jewish Religion, A Companion” by Louis Jacobs (i.e a standard reference source):
“There are three biblical laws regarding dress: the fringes are to attached to the corners of the garments…that a garment containing a mixture of wool and flax is not to be worn; and that a man must not wear woman’s apparel or a woman a man’s (Deuteronomy 22:5). The reason given for the last prohibition is either that this might lead to men and women gaining entrance in disguise into companies of the opposite sex for immoral purposes, or else because of the need to distinguish clearly between male and female in God’s creation. In sixteenth-century Italy, because of the influence of the Italian carnival, men used to dress up as women on Purim and women as men, and the Rabbis permitted this on the grounds that, since this done, for men and women to wear the other’s clothes on Purim is not to wear the garments of the opposite sex. (see CUSTOM).”
In order to understand what Jacobs is saying in the last sentence, one has to read the entry on Customs:
“…Originally, the term minhag, ‘custom’ (from a root meaning ‘to follow’, i.e. that which people follow) referred to a practice about which the law was unclear, perhaps where certain details were the subject of debate by the legal authorities. When it was observed that the people followed a particular interpretation or ruling, the practise acquired full legal status. As the Talmud (Berakhot) puts it ‘Go out and see and see what people actually do.”
That is Jewish law is malleable, depending on what people do. This is how come CDing during Purim was allowed - because people were doing it and, as Jacobs, puts it the Rabbis were operating on the basis “if you can’t beat them, join them.” The idea of Jewish law as malleable may well be in the back of the mind of the out orthodox TS in the article Latanya links.
The other thing is that if you believe that you have some element of woman in you - and that’s the reason you’re Cding (as an MTF cross dresser) - then you could actually argue that the biblical problem disappears. After all when you’re dressing up you’re just wearing the appropriate clothes for that bit of your gender that you’re expressing at that moment (i.e what Latanya's saying above). Indeed you could say the abomination would be to be made to wear men’s clothes the whole time, when you have this woman part of you that needs expressing.
Socrates: The highest wisdom is to know that you know nothing.
Good points
However the ultra orthodox do not allow dressing in women garb even on Purim.
And as i feel now I am not trying to pass as a woman or attract males (when i am dressed)so i feel there is some leeway .
U are correct Anthony I am just expressing that side of me and for me alone!
I am struck how many of us are of faith (I don't like to be described as religious) and this is always an area of potential conflict there is that one pesky little verse in Deuteronomy hat causes us so many problems. One Jewish friend reckons it just means "Buy your own damn dress" I feel it is more to do with cultural and religious practice separation of the Jews from the surrounding tribes. On that basis I shave my face, cut the sides of my hair and do not wear tassels on the corners of my cloak.
Like Davita I have considered this matter on my Blog http://paula-paulasplace.blogspot.co.uk ... ssing.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; of course because I am a Christian it is written from a Christian perspective. I am reconciled to the view that I am made in God's image, He made me this way and He doesn't make mistakes, and He loves me however I dress.
My biggest area of conflict is however much more personal in that it is the antipathy of my wife, and her interdict about me coming out more.
Paula
Just because you don't believe it, that doesn't mean it's not true
family and especially wive can be a huge conflict. but for me family and friends are and issue that creates boundaries. it limits what i can do as latanya! my daily conflict, the one that is with me constantly is still religion. but like i said previously i found enough leeway in the modern interpretations that allows me to cope with it and be fairly comfortalbe
Thanks! I confess I really love researching stuff - actually it's kind of a comparable kick for me to dressing up. And this was fun to do because I learnt stuff about the Jewish religion I didn't know despite having the books.
Socrates: The highest wisdom is to know that you know nothing.
Thanks Anthony very good and interesting points, Christians (and to a certain extent Muslims) are very apt to forget that their religion is based on Judaism, ad is therefore important for us to understand the Jewish traditions and practises that the Bible is based on, only then can we begin to understand the teaching in the Bible, after all most of it was written by Jews.
Paula
Just because you don't believe it, that doesn't mean it's not true
The other thing is that if you believe that you have some element of woman in you - and that’s the reason you’re Cding (as an MTF cross dresser) - then you could actually argue that the biblical problem disappears. After all when you’re dressing up you’re just wearing the appropriate clothes for that bit of your gender that you’re expressing at that moment (i.e what Latanya's saying above). Indeed you could say the abomination would be to be made to wear men’s clothes the whole time, when you have this woman part of you that needs expressing.
I think one of the problems here is that society in general does not approve of self-identification. That's not a stated rule, but that's an underlying theme. If a society allows people to self-identify, they lose some control of the populace. If a religion allows people to self-identify, they can lose control of their congregation. The early church did not want people to believe that they could have a direct relationship with God; they weren’t supposed to think for themselves, or question identity. The priest or the pope had to be the go-between. Martin Luther changed that with the Reformation, but there are still limits to how much of a free-thinker one can be within a religious context.
To believe that there is a woman inside of us is an extreme version of self-identification. It’s not surprising to me that this goes against the grain of many major religions.
The early church did not want people to believe that they could have a direct relationship with God; they weren’t supposed to think for themselves, or question identity. The priest or the pope had to be the go-between. Martin Luther changed that with the Reformation, but there are still limits to how much of a free-thinker one can be within a religious context.
To believe that there is a woman inside of us is an extreme version of self-identification. It’s not surprising to me that this goes against the grain of many major religions.
judaism unlike the church encourages a direct relationship with god. there is no go between in approaching god. however i do agree there is limits on being a free thinker in a religious context.
The whole point of Christianity is that the sacrifice of Jesus allowed a direct relationship with God, the symbolism of the temple curtain being rent from top to bottom, shows that God has removed the obstacle to our direct access to Him. The early Church (as portrayed in in Acts) developed the concept of the priesthood of all believers, a fundamental of Christianity. It is only because we can have a personal relationship with God that we can enjoy the benefits of Jesus' sacrifice and resurrection. Jesus said that is only through him that we can come to the Father, we cannot go through him if we do not know him and have a relationship with him.
Over the centuries many churches have tried to exert authority over members by attempting to exclude them from this relationship, this is not biblical, and does not fit in with my understanding of God's intentions for mankind. I rejoice that now more and more of the main line churches are once again embracing the priesthood of all believers and encouraging the development of this relationship.
Maybe this is why I don't like to be described as relegeous, I am more interested in following "The Way" with my brothers and sisters than in being a member of a Church.
Paula
Just because you don't believe it, that doesn't mean it's not true
an update on all this
i am now completely comfortable with my religion and my gender issues
the biggest step was to learn ans realize that is who i am and become comfortable with that
i no longer approach my religion and my service as a phony, someone who constantly promises to purge and put it behind me knowing it would come back in a few weeks or months
i approach god as me a gender fluid individual part male part female and its working
i realize that there are some elements in my religion and for that matter all religions that do not except this idea
but i have found enough in the orthodox community who do
bottom line i one has to be honest with himself.
now my remaining issues are my family and friends
since i do most of this for me(underdressing) and have not been out as latanya i see no reason to go any further with them.
it would only cause harm to the relationships
