A bit of perspective.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:01 am

This article was posted by a woman on another forum.

We start to bud in our blouses at 9 or 10 years old only to find anything that comes in contact with those tender, blooming buds hurts so bad it brings us to tears. Enter the almighty, uncomfortable training bra contraption that boys in school will snap until we have calluses on our backs.

Next, we get our periods in our early to mid-teens or sooner. Along with those budding boobs, we now bloat, we cramp, we get the hormone crankies, have to wear little mattresses between our legs or insert tubular, packed cotton rods in places we didn't even know we had. Our next little rite of passage, premarital or not, is having sex for the first time which is about as much fun as having a ramrod pushed into your uterus through your nostrils. (IF he did it right and didn't end up with his little cart before his horse, leaving us to wonder what all the fuss was about.)

Then it's off to Motherhood where we learn to live on dry crackers and water for a few months so we don't spend the entire day leaning over Brother John. Of course, amazing creatures that we are, and we are, we learn to live with the growing little angels inside us steadily kicking our innards night and day making us wonder if we're having Rosemary's Baby. Our once flat bellies now look like we swallowed a watermelon whole and we pee our pants every time we sneeze. When the big moment arrives, the dam in our blessed Nether Regions will invariably burst right in the middle of the mall and we'll waddle with our big cartoon feet moaning in pain all the way to the ER. Then it's huff and puff and beg to die while the OB says, "Please stop screaming, Mrs. In-Labor. Calm down and push. Just one more (or 10 more) good push," warranting a strong, well-deserved impulse to punch the pot hole (and husband) square in the nose for making us cram a wiggling, mushroom-headed 10 lb. bowling b! all through a keyhole.

After that, it's time to raise those angels only to find that when all that cute wears off, the beautiful little darlings morph into walking, jabbering, wet, gooey, snot-blowing, life-sucking little poop machines. The teen years... Need I say more?

The kids are almost grown now and we women hit our voracious sexual prime in our mid 30's to early 40's while husband had his somewhere around his 18th birthday (which just happens to be the reason all that early hot man sex got you pregnant in the first place).

Now we hit the grand finale: "The Menopause," the Grandmother of all womanhood. It's either take the HRT and chance cancer in those now seasoned "buds" or the aforementioned Nether Regions, or, sweat like a hog in July, wash your sheets and pillowcases daily and bite the head off anything that moves.

Now, you ask WHY women seem to be more spiteful than men when men get off so easy INCLUDING the icing on life's cake: Being able to pee in the woods without soaking their socks?

I love being a woman (call me crazy) but "Womanhood" would even make the Great Gandhi more spiteful!!! And they say women are the "weaker sex". HA!

CJ · Post by CJ » Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:35 am

Hi all,

That's a different spin, for sure, Darlene!

Hmmmm, note to self: increase desire to shatter abstract notions of womanhood; foster increased respect for realities of womanhood; cease conflating womanhood and crossdresserhood; more closely examine origins of own womb envy; continue striving to demolish stereotypes of women as weaker, fairer, second sex.

Oh, additional note to self: have fun in heels, regardless.

Thanks, Darlene. That was a cool post.

Love,
CJ

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:00 am

Hi Darlene,

I want to understand more. Why did you post that? (Not that it was bad)
It's a great read! I'm curious what you thought about it?

Beauty

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:37 pm

Hi Beauty.

One of the things that helps to continue making life interesting for me is to learn. I was at peace with my cross-dressing before I entered the world of the net. So I am not here just because I am gender gifted. I have come here to continue to grow and learn, and perhaps others here will be willing to participate.

Some of the things that I post here are meant to get other peoples opinions, and some to find out where people are at on a certain issue. I am not interested in who is right or wrong, only progress, so that many of us may benefit. Growing and learning is not some thing one dose by themselves, we need others. (Although it is true that the only ones we have the power to change is ourselves).

In this particular case I posted it to present a view from some one who has walked through this life in shoes that I am unable experience. At one time in my past I held the view that my life would be easier if I were a woman. Well I guess this helps to point out that "If the grass seems greener on the other side of the fence, the water bill might be higher."

Another reason for me looking for different things to post is that; there are only so many different ways to discuss the same things (like make up, what kind of panties do you prefer etc.) I want to help keep this board interesting by finding different things to talk about.

This is probably more than you asked for Beauty, I hope this satisfies your curiosity. Please continue to feel free to ask me anything.

*Hugs*
Darlene.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:14 pm

Thank you CJ.

For a very nice contribution to this thread.

Love.
Darlene.

CJ · Post by CJ » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:45 pm

Hi all,

Darlene,

You're very welcome.

And I, for one, tend to agree with your outlook regarding learning and what's basically an exploration of who we are as human beings.

As some here already know, this "CDer's womanhood vs. GG's womanhood" is a pet subject of mine. I've often had to face, in my own life, criticism from women for presuming to aspire to the condition of womanhood when, in fact, it will never (according to the criticism) be possible for me to do so. I'm often told that, although I may be transgendered to the bone and to the very bottom of my soul, my idea of womanhood inevitably remains a man's idea of womanhood, simply because I was socialized as a boy and as a man. My solution? To acknowledge the fact that I "live and experience" both my manhood and my womanhood in as unique a way as any woman lives her womanhood and any man lives his manhood. The question, "What does it mean to be a woman (or a man)?" should be extended thus: "What does it mean to you to be a woman (or a man)?" Answer this, and you'll have gone a long way to discovering what it means to you to be transgendered.

Ultimately, such abstract notions don't sit very well with me; I know no two females who are women in quite the same way; I know no two males who are men in quite the same way; I know no two transgendered people who are crossdressers or transsexuals or androgynes in quite the same way. Our uniqueness as human beings spans any subsumed categories; I know no two people who are humans in quite the same way.

If we're to build bridges between ourselves and other people, we need to be open and receptive to how those other people see themselves. I think that's where the value of your post resides, Darlene; this is how one GG, at a specific time and place in her life, and in a specific context, understands her own womanhood. And there's much food for thought in her way of looking at herself.

Again, thanks for posting this, Darlene.

Love,
CJ

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:28 pm

Darlene wrote:Hi Beauty.

One of the things that helps to continue making life interesting for me is to learn. I was at peace with my cross-dressing before I entered the world of the net. So I am not here just because I am gender gifted. I have come here to continue to grow and learn, and perhaps others here will be willing to participate.

Some of the things that I post here are meant to get other peoples opinions, and some to find out where people are at on a certain issue. I am not interested in who is right or wrong, only progress, so that many of us may benefit. Growing and learning is not some thing one dose by themselves, we need others. (Although it is true that the only ones we have the power to change is ourselves).

In this particular case I posted it to present a view from some one who has walked through this life in shoes that I am unable experience. At one time in my past I held the view that my life would be easier if I were a woman. Well I guess this helps to point out that "If the grass seems greener on the other side of the fence, the water bill might be higher."

Another reason for me looking for different things to post is that; there are only so many different ways to discuss the same things (like make up, what kind of panties do you prefer etc.) I want to help keep this board interesting by finding different things to talk about.

This is probably more than you asked for Beauty, I hope this satisfies your curiosity. Please continue to feel free to ask me anything.

*Hugs*
Darlene.

It was so hard to ask you that question.

I was like, "This is going to come of sounding harsh, but hopefully I can word it right to let her know I really want to know what she's thinking."

Now that you told me. It's like explaining a piece of art. I was thinking, "Ohhhhh!!!"

It was like a blank canvas turned into a beautiful painting.

That's awesome!!! (Why you posted it)

Thank you, thank you, thank you for explaining. It totally makes sense and it's beautiful the way you're growing through the experience of others.

I lol'd about the line, "If the grass seems greener on the other side of the fence, the water bill might be higher."

Thanks again!!

Beauty

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:11 am

Hi CJ.

Folowing is a partial copy of the information provided in a link that Deborah has provided. You may well be familiar with it but I think it is worth posting here. It supports some beliefs that I have had for some time now.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

An idealized (but not universal) history the crossdresser can be outlined as follows:

Each boy has traits that society considers feminine. When a boy displays these traits, they meet with disapproval. The boy represses these feminine traits, which become the anima.

The boy develops a normal male persona (mask), and enters the world. He goes to school and follows a career. The urge to actualize his repressed female potentials manifests itself in dreams and fantasy.

At midlife, he experiences unhappiness due to the unrealistic and limiting nature of his masculine persona. At this time he may feel a strong, even overpowering interest in wearing women's clothes, or of being a woman in fantasy. This urge is natural and healthy: it is because his completeness as a person requires expressing the potentials he has repressed.

Lacking societal cues that validate or guide his impulses, he experiences confusion. The world says crossdressing is wrong, but his 'heart' says it is right. Guilt, shame, moral concerns, and his own overly idealized view of masculinity constrain his crossdressing. He also asks questions like "Am I gay" and "Should I change my sex?"
The stage of confusion can last years and decades. The crossdresser may dress often, delve into the culture of crossdressing, or even take female hormones. Or he may remain highly closeted. But the hallmark of this phase is that he remains confused and highly ambivalent, uncertain how to proceed.

This seems a terminal point for many. However, the theories of Jung and others imply that this is not the proper end point, but merely arrested development.

If the crossdressing urge is really adaptive--a response by the organism to remove barriers that have effectively repressed half of the man's potentials--we can speculate that further developmental stages are possible:
The crossdresser recognizes the positive, healing meaning of crossdressing. At this point, crossdressing becomes supported, rather than rejected, by the ego; he may then pursue crossdressing as a constructive activity, now freed from previous moral constraints. But, by the same token, recognition of the positive meaning of the urges also brings an appreciation of sensible limits.

The crossdresser gradually experiences his "inner female." As he does, he finds parts that are of fundamental importance, and realizes that these transcend labels of 'male' or 'female'. He also learns to distinguish the positive, profound parts of the anima (spirituality, love, beauty, etc.) from the trivial (promiscuity, vanity, etc.).

For a while the crossdresser experiences his male and female personalities as distinct. Eventually he allows parts of the female into his ordinary male personality. This stage gradually merges with the next.

The inclusion of the female effects a change in the male personality, producing a new personality that is better than either alone. The female empowers and transforms the male. This stage is ongoing. The new self continues to grow--presumably in the direction of greater spirituality and service to others.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... /anima.htm

Love.
Darlene.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:17 am

Beauty wrote

It was so hard to ask you that question. I was like, "This is going to come of sounding harsh, but hopefully I can word it right to let her know I really want to know what she's thinking."

You worded it just fine Beauty. When one journeys through what you and I went through the way we did, I have a respect for you that can not be attained any other way. Yes I could have PM-nd you, and you would have responded politely, just like any one else would in a position like yours. But you don't find out what people are really like that way. You find out what is in the heart of a person by getting beyond the masks we all wear.

Once I know that a persons heart is good then it takes a lot to chance that. When I see a post by you even if I might feel you may not have worded it right, you are automatically given the benefit of the doubt, because you have earned it.

It's just another one of life's blessings that can not be attained the easy way. Please feel free to relax (just be yourself) when communicating with me. You will be safe, and if it dose get rough there will be a blessing on the other side of it. Although I can't see that happening.

Love.
Darlene.

Gaven McLaren · Post by **Gaven McLaren** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:37 am

I just read that fully I must have by passed it yesterday. Great read and funny. While I was reading it I was thinking of my older sister and what she has gone through being a girl. Some of which I caused. What else are little brothers for?

CJ · Post by CJ » Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:03 am

Hi all,

In quoting the Jung article, Darlene wrote: The inclusion of the female effects a change in the male personality, producing a new personality that is better than either alone. The female empowers and transforms the male.

This is made explicit in the Hindu symbol of the Yoni-Lingam (the representation of the male and female genitals combined), where the "active" principle in the world is considered male while the "effective," or "energy" principle (without which the "active" is impotent) is considered female. Shiva (male), though a doer of deeds, is powerless to do anything whatsoever without the infusing, and suffused, potency of Shakti (female). Conversely, Shakti, without Shiva's ability to affect and change the world, is energy without an outlet, power without a focus, love without an object. We, both men and women (as well as the rest of us), need both these aspects in our lives. I think Jung, as well as Joseph Campbell and other mythologists, appreciated this way of looking at who we are.

Love,
CJ

RikkiOfLA · Post by **RikkiOfLA** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:45 am

Darlene's cogent summary of something by Cathy Anderson got me to thinking.

One of the many reasons I'm glad I'm who I am is that I can take a back seat to the whole (rather fractious!) debate over autogynephilia that's raging in the TS community.

Autogynephilia is the idea that many transsexuals (and most crossdressers) like|love|are aroused by the idea of looking like|feeling like|becoming a woman.

It floats my boat, but at the same time, I realize that not all fantasies are meant to become reality. That, for me, is one of the philosophical justifications of the limits that Darlene mentioned. Good post, Darlene!

I think crossdressing (in the sense of making a conscious decision to look and act like a woman, and step out that front door dressed) really IS an adaptive behavior. It's certainly NOT a sexual behavior for me. Like most people, for me sex is a very private thing. I like the notion of an adaptive behavior! It's a more positive concept than a sublimation, which would be saying that crossdressing is merely a socially acceptable form of self-destructive behavior. Calling crossdressing an adaptive behavior says that it is a conscious decision (which it is), but also that it is a constructive activity (which I believe it is). In other words, I'm never going back into the closet!

What I'm really trying to say is that crossdressing is, at least for me, a healthy, constructive way of dealing with autogynephilic urges. It was hard getting to that point. For me, accepting my inner femininity happened during a long illness, when I had plenty of time

to think. I had to accept not just that I have a large feminine side, but that my male side was not complete--that for me, being masculine would always remain merely an ideal. Was that saying that I'm not fully masculine, and never will be? You bet! And I had to get to the point where I rather like that about myself.

Imagine my chagrin when I discovered the same thing is true about being feminine--it's also an ideal that I will never reach. At about that time, I began to hear women around me saying the same thing--and not being bothered by it!

The path to being a complete, whole human being means integrating the two gender sides of me.

For women, femininity is an ideal, not an assumption. Understanding that made me a lot less self-conscious about parts of my male side showing through. I can relax and wear pants now, which for a long time I avoided.

But I'm still bothered when I'm read.

Last night at dinner, I thought I was read. My wife and I were leaving a restaurant. I was wearing capris and a women's tee shirt, which I had accidentally spilled a little food on.

My makeup was a little worn.
As I walk past, a server says "Thank you, sir." She says it a little late--like she had to think what to say to me.

OH NO, WAS I READ?????

As I turned a corner to go out the door, I discovered a man was leaving the restaurant right behind me. She had been thanking him. Whew!

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:20 am

Darlene wrote:. . . Please feel free to relax (just be yourself) when communicating with me. You will be safe, and if it dose get rough there will be a blessing on the other side of it. Although I can't see that happening.

Love.
Darlene.

Hi Darlene,

Thank you so much!

I will do that.

Beauty

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:23 am

Thank you Rikki for contributing to this thread. I went to sleep last night thinking where is Rikki? She should be in on this discussion.What has been revealed in this thread has been my heart beat since I entered the world of the net. I no longer feel like a stranger here, it is nice to find some people that are on the same page.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this topic. Anyone else here who can contribute to this page. Please let yourself be seen?

Love.
Darlene.

Virginia · Post by **Virginia** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:10 pm

Ain't his GREAT!!!
Darlene, first thanks for the credit but it goes to Danielle for the Jung Anima Theory site. I just posted a response to her and in it I said that I have transistioned and evidently did not even recognize it. If you girls think about it, I mean deeply think about it when you get dressed and look into the mirror who do you see -I MEAN WHO DO YOU REALLY SEE???
(must have hit a weird key on this 'puter) anyway what I am asking do you see a male in women's clothing? or do you see: Darlene, or CJ or Beauty or Rikki? Think about it who is actually looking back at you???? I think that, according to Jung, if you see a very pretty girl and not a male in women's clothes - BINGO you have transitioned to a stage that is what we are all seeking - after that it becomes a matter of controlling who we are or want to be. Some of us at that point go on to the SRS, some I would assume "freak-out" and ?run away? I don't know, but as for me as I explained to Danielle, I actually see Deborah, a pretty blonde, not a male in women's clothing - I did not really think about it before, but what a transition. I love this GIFT and I intend to take very good care of it and with your help and thought-provoking "posts" I will.
L:ove ya all,
Deborah