Are people getting more accepting?

[Anthony Simon]

Hi Anthony-
The kind of pain I'm talking about here is the pain of not being "myself," as I got older, and that began to include my girlself....

Thing is, all my creative expressions have hit dead ends--writing, playing music, and songwriting--so the only one that worked was to create a woman where one hadn't been before. When we dress up and put on the makeup, we are being creative, and the usual impulse is to want to share what we've created with other people. CDing is one thing I take out into the world, and display. It's a mixed blessing, that this form of 'art' worked in a way that the other art forms haven't done, so far. I've helped and influenced a lot of people in eleven years. It is not something I could had sat down and figured out intellectually, but I am happy that I've had some kind of artistic platform to come from.

I've come to see the CDing rather like this as well, even if I don't take it out in the world as yet. When I dress up, I feel I'm getting taken over by this woman - and I relate that to what you get in certain froms of religious ritual, where "the God" takes over the person. But you also get that in acting - like an actor will talk about a character taking her over - and that can on for an extended period before the actor "expels" the character having played the part. The link is that drama was invented by the Greeks and came out of Dionysian ritual where people were taken over by the God.

But we don't give up the persona, like the part doesn't end. She's there for life. As I understand it, the central (or at least very central) part of your CDing was your music career. So the creation of your female self was very much linked to your creative self.

I know you say that you couldn't have worked this stuff out intellectually but, judging from your posts here, you do have an intellectual side that needs to be expressed - and enjoys doing that within the frame of CDing discussions. I think you're pretty able at this stuff - like I sometimes think that you could have been an academic like your sister if life had turned out that way.

I'm just wondering if you combine the CDing with that intellectual side in places other than here - kind of wider venues, to bring it back to to the thread topic.

[Sarah Ann]

Ummmm, my answer to the original question is a very qualified "Yes, but...". A great deal depends on where you are. Urban centers generally have less hassle, and some of the subcultures springing up make a fetish (pi) of tolerance for diversity. For instance, I can go en femme publicly in parts of Las Vegas and attend certain SCA events as a Lady, but, that said, get outside the charmed circle, and you risk harassment or actual violence. I came out to a couple of friends out here in Redneck Hell a couple of years ago, and literally had to run for my life. It got patched up mostly later, but things were never the same.

Shopping is a mixed bag. I've known one owner of a small resale boutique I introduced to CD through me who enthusiastically got into supporting the community. I've had a few salesladies be actually very helpful at department stores. Generally, I consider it a success if none of the sales staff and other shoppers react to me negatively. There's one local thrift shop I no longer shop for clothes at because of the comments, and I've been charged more at a Goodwill before than female shoppers were for the same item.

My current impression is that, while we are miles away from where we were in 1965, the general public, when they even think of us, still hates us like the plague. I refer you all to the comments appended to the April Ashley gets MBE article linked in another posting. I noticed a large percentage of very negative comments and expect there were more that got edited. I would recommend caution to anyone who dresses openly or lets their tastes be known too obviously.

[Anita]

Sarah Ann wrote:

For instance, I can go en femme publicly in parts of Las Vegas and attend certain SCA events as a Lady, but, that said, get outside the charmed circle, and you risk harassment or actual violence.

I wish there were some way of calculating how it is in different parts of the country. I can only speak for what I experience in my own hometown. When I was with the novelty band, dressing as a woman, I really wanted to take the act to some of the more rural parts of the Bay area, or go to Stockton or Modesto. I know there's a little more tolerance of performers who do drag, but I can also get a feel for the community attitudes when I'm stopping at the 7-11 on the way to the show, too. I regret that the rest of the band seemed to have no incentive to do this, so we continued to play urban centers and pride festivals.

I came out to a couple of friends out here in Redneck Hell a couple of years ago, and literally had to run for my life. It got patched up mostly later, but things were never the same.

That's a terrible story, and I'm sorry that it happened that way. Some of my friends back in Ohio have gotten frosty toward me, but no one back there has ever met 'her.' It's just pictures.

Shopping is a mixed bag.

That's my experience of it. Some shops seem to welcome me and have no problem with presenting a professional attitude. Some are enthused. A small number didn't like the idea, but no one ever refused to let me try on clothes. I could tell that they weren't comfortable with it.

Only one time did I ever feel like I was discriminated against. At Ross, you can only have a certain number of clothes in the fitting room, so the ones you've already selected stay outside in a cart. I left my cart outside the room, in full view of two attendants. When I came out, it was gone, and they had no idea what had happened to it. It really upset me; there was a prize dress in that cart that fit perfectly and looked good--very rare in my experience. Did they take it? Did they watch someone else take it? There would be no reason for a thief to make off with my cart; it just seemed like a malicious act, but I can't say for certain.

My current impression is that, while we are miles away from where we were in 1965, the general public, when they even think of us, still hates us like the plague.

That's my impression. However, if they actually talk to one of us, I think that that hatred/dislike/indifference is replaced for a second, because we became a real living, breathing person to them. I've seen that occur--the person talking to me is pleasantly surprised, and relieved, to see that I'm not thing this strange person who's scary to be around. Sometimes they say backhanded compliments like, "You seem normal enough." My girlfriend heard that one; she's TS.
I'm not saying that they then change completely, but a little dent has been made in the judgments that they might carry around.

I refer you all to the comments appended to the April Ashley gets MBE article linked in another posting. I noticed a large percentage of very negative comments and expect there were more that got edited. I would recommend caution to anyone who dresses openly or lets their tastes be known too obviously.

I have to be feeling strong to read the comments page on any transgender-related story. I also have to be feeling strong enough to go out, because I can't ever take it for granted that it's going to be routine out there. Most of the time it is. but I've got to have that reserve energy ready to deal with the unexpected. There's where a transitioned woman can finally relax, as she blends in more and more. A part-time gal can't do that so easily.

Anthony Simon wrote:

I know you say that you couldn't have worked this stuff out intellectually but, judging from your posts here, you do have an intellectual side that needs to be expressed - and enjoys doing that within the frame of CDing discussions

After I've experienced the differences, then I've got them in my memory, and I can sort them out and catalogue them. But there was no way I could tell ahead of time--by thinking it out in my head--how it was going to be when I went out as a woman. The example I give is that almost immediately I found myself reaching out and touching people. I would never do that as a man, because I know it's not welcomed and not acceptable most of the time. But as soon as I sensed that those restrictions weren't there, I broke out of the corral. I could see that many people weren't afraid of gal-me, and it was OK to touch them. That was amazing! I could have never predicted that would happen.

I'm just wondering if you combine the CDing with that intellectual side in places other than here

It still surprises me that transgender is the one political arena that I feel comfortable discussing and arguing about. Otherwise, I feel like a political illiterate. I always have strong feelings, and never enough hard facts to back up those feelings. But in TG matters, I know a lot more because I live it everyday.

[Anna]

Thanks Anita. Nice post well reasoned! Well observed!

[Anthony Simon]

I'm just wondering if you combine the CDing with that intellectual side in places other than here

It still surprises me that transgender is the one political arena that I feel comfortable discussing and arguing about. Otherwise, I feel like a political illiterate. I always have strong feelings, and never enough hard facts to back up those feelings. But in TG matters, I know a lot more because I live it everyday.

In TG political stuff, you seem to know where the lines are - it seems almost like you're negotiating a chord sequence (don't know where that image came from). A lot of people live stuff, but they can't then conceptualise it and then avoid the traps. What you do reminds me very much of an academic who's got her research - and then has to fight to put it across to the academic community.

[Anna]

Anthony, interesting conclusions. I think I agree with you...

[Monique]

Wow, thanks for all the replies to my post. I really learned a lot about the diversity of opinions among us. I remember a time that I couldn't know how other's like me felt!! It's so wonderful to be able to network with each and every one of you.

Monique

[Deana]

hello ladies. I'm not sure if i'm at the right place to ask this, but....... where is a safe on line place to shop for lingerie, tights, shoes, wedding and ball gowns, satin, lacy frilly sleepwear ect,ect " I am a 2x size kinda girl. i'm very leary of most on line shopping stores. any ideas ?

[DonnaT]

Deana, a number of name brand stores you can find locally also have online departments. Those would be the safe bets.

You might also try,
http://www.womanwithin.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Anita]

Anthony wrote:

In TG political stuff, you seem to know where the lines are - it seems almost like you're negotiating a chord sequence (don't know where that image came from). A lot of people live stuff, but they can't then conceptualise it and then avoid the traps. What you do reminds me very much of an academic who's got her research - and then has to fight to put it across to the academic community.

It is very much like navigating through a chord sequence, or more to the point, writing a song, and knowing what chords the listener is expecting to hear. As a white male, I used to dislike political correctness, as it was impossible to not offend someone. As a trans woman, living her life, I suddenly had this whole new understanding of the political landscape, like it was drawn with a blue line on a Google map, and it went from point A to point B exactly as it should. People may disagree with my positions, but they don't tend to criticize the labels I choose, or the wording I use. It's like pulling rabbits out of a hat--I don't know exactly how I learned to do the trick, but I can pull it off nearly every time. But there were some glitches at the beginning--like referring to "real women" (meaning genetic gals) at a support group meeting. One of the members gently said, "We're real women, too. We were just born in the wrong bodies." I never made that mistake again, and I cringe even remembering it. But even the most accepting member of the general public can make that kind of statement, and not know that they're tramping on toes.

To get it back to the topic thread, even gay and lesbian folks can have a hard time with us. Every once in a while there will be a ruckus that shows just how far we have to go with them understanding where we're coming from, or accepting our points of view. And if they have difficulties, it shows me that the general public must have even more misconceptions, still. Not trying to be pessimistic--just making an observation.