To SOs from a lifelong CD

[Beauty]

Kay's words are 100% in line with my thinking. It may not sound true (my thinking in line with hers), but it is.

Kay your words ARE well received. Well done!

Beauty

[Julie M.]

Kay,

I want to thank you for your input. What was bothering me most about this thread was only one SO had added her input and that really detracted from the education I had hoped to get. Your comments have added to that and for that I am grateful. I know I will never understand what a woman goes through dealing with this but I will never stop trying. You can criticize, critique or just bash the hell out of what I say but if you ignore it and say nothing, I learn nothing. So thank you again.

One comment I have made several times is I believe that soon this attitude about men dressing femininely will change. I don’t mean dress up like a woman, I mean there will be men’s clothing that is feminine in style, dresses, skirts, lace, etc but designed for men. When it does those who want to wear this type of clothing will do so freely, without persecution or shame. What your message made me realize is those women who aren’t attracted to the type of man who wears this style will know right away what he likes just by seeing him and move on before a relationship begins. I see how many women have been “duped” into believing their man is the man they thought they married. You opened my eyes to that.

On the flip side, society’s attitude towards men doing anything feminine is partly to blame. When a man fears losing friends, family or his job by making this common knowledge, one begins to understand why secrecy is a common thread among CDs. Only a change in this attitude will allow men to express themselves much the same way women are allowed to without any fears. And I truly believe many of today’s CDs would never go to the extremes they do to pass as a woman when this happens. I think most men go to these extremes because if they think they are able to pass then they are safe. No weird stares. No public ridicule. No risk of being discovered and facing the possibility of all that we fear from it.

Now if I may comment or your comments:

First I need to respond to this original post. Then I'll move on to others...

Julie M. wrote: Common concerns that seem to come up time and time again with the SOs stems from lack of education about just what crossdressing is all about.

Kay,

Before I read your message I had re-read mine and realized it needed some explaining so I added that to the bottom of that post in italics. But I still neglected to say that sentence was directed to the initial reaction of many SOs. I realize you are all very caring and loving and want to do whatever possible to understand (once the initial shock is over)but there is a lot to absorb and many fears to face before you can take on trying to understand all that has been studied on this subject.

Julie also wrote: Women know wearing pants and suits and even menswear clothing are all options they have to express themselves.

This is not the case for many GG's. It's about comfort, plain and simple. When I throw on a pair of jeans it has nothing whatever to do with expressing my male self. It has to do with the fact that it's more comfortable physically and nothing to do with my psychological self at all.

Kay,

There are many women's clothes that I find to be extremely comfortable but are also very feminine. I do not have that option to wear something just because I find it's comfortable. If that option were open to me without fear of reprisal I have to wonder would I ever crossdress as I do now? I sort of doubt it. But I find walking in a flowing dress with stockinged legs (smooth shaven is best) to be very comfortable. I don't find wearing a bra with breastforms, hip padding or waist cincher to be at all comfortable. I once let my hair grow past my shoulders and I loved the feeling of my hair rubbing on my back but I don't like at all wearing a wig. It's hot and an overall pain. I'd take a nice airy skirt over a pair of jeans any day and I'd probably top it off with loose fitting polo shirt. (attired male on top, female on bottom) But I can't do that without repercussions.

There is a very real double standard here but most women don't see it or just plain don't want to see it because it would mean their men might want to get dressed in frilly feminine things. They don't want that even if some high-fashion designer says it's all the rave.

Women want to see their men dressed masculinely. Men also want to see their women dressed femininely but look at what we see today. I was at the mall yesterday and looked around at how the women were dressed. I’d say over half were dressed in men’s clothing. It did nothing for them at all. It detracted from their looks and made them look less like a woman and more like a man. Why is this okay for women but not for men?

I’m not trying to take away what women have earned, I’m only pointing out that men have made concessions so women have more freedom. And I think that’s a good thing. Why not allow them the same? Freedom to be you is something everyone should strive for.

I am speaking here in a general sense and not specifically to your situation. But if society’s attitude were to relax about men’s appearances to the same level they have on women’s appearances I think we’d all be better off for it. For one, the "CD surprise" would be less common in marriages than it is now.

I hope I expressed myself properly. I honestly have nothing but the best intentions. Typed words miss so much compared to actual face-to-face conversation. Thanks for listening.

[Love (SO)]

My replies may not be met with gratitude but they are honest and I hope that they are taken in a way for you all to reach a greater understanding of what SO's are thinking, feeling and what we go through.



That's just me and my five cents.

Kay(SO)

Kay (SO)


I agree with you 110%
Well put.

Love (SO)

[Heather Gail]

I've read this entire thread and agree with virtually all the thoughts and emotions that have been expressed. There is simply no "easy" way to address this or even figure out why there is a "need" to do this. I wish my wife would read some of this because it would be enlightening for her as she has simply refused to even acknowledge this part of me, preferring to believe that it doesn't even exist. I am a good husband and father and she readily accepts that, but her attitude towards my desires has forced me to go "underground" to the point where I ventured out the other night when she and the kids were out of town. I doubt if I would have gone out en femme had she at least been willing to discuss and begin to address what I've been alluding to for years. As is said, we are sometimes drawn to the forbidden because of no other choice. I truly believe that some form of acknowledgment, let alone acceptance, would go a long way towards helping me adjust to what I feel is a strong need of mine and we would be able to handle it better than its been to date.

[RedJellyBaby(SO)]

There is a very real double standard here but most women don't see it or just plain don't want to see it because it would mean their men might want to get dressed in frilly feminine things. They don't want that even if some high-fashion designer says it's all the rave.

So lets suppose that 'mens skirts' are soon all the range. Nice thought but would the majority of cross dressers really want to wear them or would they continue to seek out real womens apparel.

I dont much care about the history. I suppose i should be grateful that i have 'earned the right' to wear trousers. I dont see how you can think that men have made 'concessions' to women to 'allow' them more freedom! David Beckham made a statement by wearing a sarong. He said it was comfortable. Not many females i know had an issue with that, so in answer to your plea for 'similar concessions' that would fit.

I feel that CDing does not just evolve around wanting to feel accepted wearing clothes you consider comfortable. If it was you would choose to wear robes like other cultures do when concerned about comfort, heat dissipation etc. The fact that the whole look includes underwear (which i maintain is NOT more comfortable than a loose pair of boxers!), tights aka nylons (very hot, stuffy and prone to constant replacement due to ladders),high heels (again comfort is an alien concept whilst wearing most 'feminine' shoes) and outer attire(which is the only part which fits your theory) make up and wig.

I dont think cross dressers NEED to justify their dressing. All they NEED to do is be honest and true to their SOs whilst endeavering to be true to themselves.

By the way, i was not offended by your post. I did not agree with all of it but thats life. I will never walk in your shoes and vice versa.
Take care.

PS I agree with Kay too.

PPS Heather,
If i were your wife i would be outraged that you held me responsible for your being 'forced' to go underground and venture out.
I think i must have misunderstood part of your post as it seemed to read to me that your wife and kids were out of town, so you could have dressed in private, but instead you CHOSE to dress and go out?

[Julie M.]

RedJellyBaby,
I love this thread. You ladies are teaching me so much. But I still have some issues and I hope you will continue to have an open mind and help me to work through this. Since coming to this forum I have learned a lot but as a wise man once told me, "When you're green you're growin'. When you're not you rot" and I don't want to rot.

I copied your message and added my comments. Your comments are in italics and I have added my response.

So lets suppose that 'mens skirts' are soon all the range. Nice thought but would the majority of cross dressers really want to wear them or would they continue to seek out real womens apparel.

I dont much care about the history. I suppose i should be grateful that i have 'earned the right' to wear trousers. I dont see how you can think that men have made 'concessions' to women to 'allow' them more freedom! David Beckham made a statement by wearing a sarong. He said it was comfortable. Not many females i know had an issue with that, so in answer to your plea for 'similar concessions' that would fit.

No one can predict what this world would be like if men dressed in what is today considered feminine clothing. If attitudes were relaxed and it became accepted most of the general public would probably never give it a second thought. And I never intended to convey men "allowed" or "gave" women the freedom to dress as they wish. But I am saying men didn't make a big deal about it. They didn't obsess about what it might mean. They did however mourn the death of the feminine image they had grown up to know. I wonder what would have the ladies done if it was the other way around?

If you have read any of my other posts you will see I am asking myself what I would do if men could wear what they wanted without repercussion. Would I still want to look like a woman or would I be content just wearing whatever I felt comfortable in? Honestly, since I am a creaure of comfort, I would say I would go for comfort. But that may mean wearing what is now considered "feminine clothing". Put me in a long flowing skirt on a nice summer day and I am happy. You may see a man with a nice polo shirt, un-buttoned and chest hair showing, walking down the street but he has on a mid calf skirt and 3" espadrille sandals and his toenails are painted ruby red. Personally I like that image. It allows me to be me.

As to David Beckham, he is not your average male. He's one high profile male who can pretty much do what he wants without fear of reprecussions. He does not represent the average male anymore than Paris Hilton represents the average female. So your analogy doesn't apply.

I feel that CDing does not just evolve around wanting to feel accepted wearing clothes you consider comfortable. If it was you would choose to wear robes like other cultures do when concerned about comfort, heat dissipation etc. The fact that the whole look includes underwear (which i maintain is NOT more comfortable than a loose pair of boxers!), tights aka nylons (very hot, stuffy and prone to constant replacement due to ladders),high heels (again comfort is an alien concept whilst wearing most 'feminine' shoes) and outer attire(which is the only part which fits your theory) make up and wig.

Okay, so let's assume you are right. I just want to be comfortable and I choose to wear robes similar to what the Romans used to wear. Now I decide to go out, draped in my robes, to the grocery store, the movies or to work. How would you predict everyone to act? It would be just as bad as if I dressed fully as a woman. Either way I am perceived as a nut.

And comfort isn't always about feel. It's about feeling good about what you're wearing. It's about feeling you look good in the clothes. If I like the look of something I will automatically feel more comfortable simply because I like how I look. Women know this better than men.

As for boxers, if you are a Seinfeld fan you might remember the episode where Kramer was concerned about his fertility (yes, I'm trying to add some levity). Well the truth of the matter is boxers aren't all that comfortable when you have to wear pants that bind...........oh let's not get into that.

I said before wigs and all the other padding are very uncomfortable. That being so I doubt many men would continue to add these obvious albatrosses to their dressing routine if societal attitudes were relaxed and more in line with what women enjoy. Men aren't used to putting up with all the discomfort women are. They would eventually cave. And I think the ladies know this, they just haven't considered it yet.

I dont think cross dressers NEED to justify their dressing. All they NEED to do is be honest and true to their SOs whilst endeavering to be true to themselves.

Honesty is important in all relationships. I can't speak for anyone but myself. I have always felt a responsibility to tell my SO about every aspect of who I am. I realize society does not accept the CD part of me. I have spent a lifetime keeping it from all but those whom I feel I can trust. When I was in my early 20s I dated a girl and came to trust her. I told her. I felt that was my obligation. But that's just me.

However, I can understand the guys who feel the need to hide this, who think it will go away, who think that some phenomenal woman will enter their life and they will be 'cured'. I know this feeling because I had it too. But it just isn't that easy and many of those who fooled themselves into believing this have come to face the facts, this is as much a part of them as the nose on their face. What their wives don't know is their CD husbands wanted this to go away as much as they do. "God, I wish I was normal". Unfortunately for them, it's a deeply ingrained part of who they are.

RedJellyBaby and Kay.

I thank you for all you do and I thank you for opening my eyes some more. You have made the effort to learn about something you never planned to exist in your life. You are two brave pioneers, whether you wanted to be or not. You have come on here and spoken your mind and in the process have taught me and probably many others some of what you are going through. You have opened the lines of comunication. This is what this forum seems to be best at and that's why I have been so active here. As long as people like you are here, I will always come back.

My heartfelt thanks,
Jim

(Now see what you've done! You've brought out the masculine side of me!)

[Kay(SO)]

It's me again. This has been really fun.

Julie wrote: Why not allow them the same? Freedom to be you is something everyone should strive for.

I do understand what you're asking and saying. And I agree with you. The only thing I will add is that we SO's come from the same society that balks at this notion. Most of us were raised with the Cinderella syndrome implanted in our brains about the knight on the horse sweeping us off to the castle to live happily ever after. And believe me, the knight was not wearing pantyhose, a skirt or anything even that could be constued as feminine. Just the armor and his masculinity. That's part of why SO's have difficulty in just tossing aside the ideas about "men" and saying, "okay honey. Be and look as feminine as you'd like". I'm not saying that it's not okay or that it shouldn't be okay. In fact, my opinion is that it's quite unfair. It's still however the reality we all live with.

You have expressed yourself extremely well and it has been received with nothing but positive emotions and thoughts.

I agree with you that life would be easier if the world wasn't so judgmental and caught up in stigmas and untruths. It's going to be a long road because CD'rs have just started to open up and stop hiding. Even with the number who are speaking or singing out, I still believe it is the most misunderstood human condition today. I wish you peace and offer hugs to you all,

Kay(SO)

[Kay(SO)]

Heather and all,

I hear the pain and sadness in your words and I'm sure it's difficult not having the support from your wife. Has she even tried to learn more about the issue? I can't imagine living that way, not being able to be who you are, your whole, true self. I for one, know that I couldn't be or feel responsible for that. It's why I looked at the fact that I had a choice. I could be with him and do my best to understand and try to accept him for who he is or I could leave the relationship.

I also hear what RJB was saying about holding your wife responsible for your going "underground" so to speak. We all have choices, and though your's are limited due to your wife's lack of understanding or interest, you can also choose to do things differently. I have a motto that I live by, "Misery is optional". I think people are only as miserable as they choose to be. We can ALWAYS make a new decision to change the situation that we're in. We always have options. They may not be the options we would prefer but they exist all the same. For you, it could be counseling, letting your wife know that you NEED to CD and that you are willing to negotiate it with her but that if she's not then something has to change in the relationship or living situation. I believe we all have a right to be ourselves and to be happy. I'm not saying we have the right to walk on other's to get there but again, we can make choices to get our needs met. We just have to realize and be able to live with the consequences of those choices. Life ain't easy, that's for sure. Okay, I'm rambling now.

Kay(SO)

[Kay(SO)]

One more time, it's Kay again.

Julie wrote: I said before wigs and all the other padding are very uncomfortable. That being so I doubt many men would continue to add these obvious albatrosses to their dressing routine if societal attitudes were relaxed and more in line with what women enjoy. Men aren't used to putting up with all the discomfort women are. They would eventually cave. And I think the ladies know this, they just haven't considered it yet.

I was thinking about this and had to ask my husband about it. He told me that he would continue with the whole look; wig, boobs, etc... because for him it's more than just about passing to feel safe or accepted. There's a psychological aspect to those albatrosses and he wouldn't give them up because they are part of the process for him and part of what meets his needs in CDing. For him, those things add to his ability to feel and look feminine and give him the illusion that he's succeeding. Especially the boobs. If he could go out tomorrow, wearing what ever he wanted, he would wear the whole nine yards and smile, feel comfortable within. He once told me that to him, those things that make me uncomfortable (heels, which I hate to wear, girdles, etc...) actually make him feel better. He's jealous of my long, thick hair, my large real boobs, my mom hips and curves, the fact that I can apply makeup so well and that I can sit in a t-shirt and sweats and still feel feminine, without all of the out wrappings because it's just part of being a GG.

Anyway, thanks for the kind and heartfelt thanks Julie. That's why I love being here. I learn every day. Thanks to you too!

Kay(SO)

[Julie M.]

Kay,

I read your post yesterday but wanted to give myself some reflection time. I tried picturing a world totally devoid of a transgender stigma. Whatever you want to wear or look like would be accepted. Then I asked myself what would I want to change? What would I wear? How would I want to be perceived? Is this aspect of my personality is just like any other? Would I get tired of it if I was able to dress as a woman anytime I wanted?

I honestly think I would like to be able to get back and forth as the desires dictate. There is something magical to me about appearing as a woman. I wish I could describe the feeling completely but I just can't find the words. I feel confident. I feel attractive (the mirror can lie so bad! ) I feel elated. I feel like I want to go out into the world and take in all it has. I am shy by nature but when I'm dressed I'm fairly outgoing. I so much more thoroughly enjoy the company of women when dressed. With them, it seems, I am so much more myself. I speak more easily and am far less self-conscience. My self-analysis would be I am a happier and better person when dressed.

All that considered I still wonder if I would tire of all the work that goes into trying to look like a woman. I don’t think there is any other thing in my life that I didn’t tire of at some point. If my physical attributes were less masculine and it didn’t require all the “accessories” to satisfy my taste I’d guess I might be less prone to becoming tired of it. On typical days I get up, shower, blow-dry my hair and get dressed, all in about 20 minutes. The end result is a fairly decent looking man. A typical dress-up day takes as much as two hours when you consider shaving, makeup, padding insertion and adjustment, wig styling and then getting dressed. After which is the fine-tuning, accessories, jewelry, etc. The end result is far less successful than what I’d like to see (but I know I have to make some concessions). But what if I didn’t have to contend with body hair and a masculine bone structure? The end result would be far more satisfactory and would most likely make me want to do it more often, maybe all the time. But would I still need the hip padding and breast forms? There is no doubt I would sometimes. At the very least because I’d be curious to see how I look. But I’ve come to the realization that I can’t honestly answer that. It’s something I’ll think about for a long time, that’s for sure.

Thanks again for your input. Who needs a psychiatrist when you can just come here and accomplish more than you could on any shrinks couch?

Julie

[Kay(SO)]

Julie,
You have been thinking really hard! Whew! Self-reflection is good for the soul however. And by the way, I charge my usual clients about $100.00 per hour but for ya'll, I do ALL pro bono. I get as much as I give so I figure it's only fair. Hee hee!

You wrote: My self-analysis would be I am a happier and better person when dressed.

I have been told this by many CD'rs. My own husband is so much more relaxed, happy, funny and loving. He said it's because he feels whole and complete. The only problem I have is that he is an all or nothing type guy and if he can't dress completely, he doesn't dress at all and ends up miserable. People often find our arrangement strange but we started experimenting with him occasionally going off on retreats to dress. Sometimes I'll go for part of the adventure, sometimes I just can't because we have kids and no care for them. It gives him an opportunity to get away from the kids which can be a blessing (but that's another story!), gives us both time for ourselves or couple time. Some women think I'm nuts to be okay with him going but I just don't see it as an issue. I trust him, he trusts me, we love each other and it works for us. I do buy him things, participate at every level when I can and when I feel like it or when he needs or wants me to be there. Hey, it's about compromise and finding ways to get our needs met.

One more thing I wanted to say, just in general. We (SO's) may never truly know how you feel and you (CD'rs) may never know how we truly feel. What's in the middle is empathy and compassion and if we can meet there, anything can be worked out. The important thing is that we all keep trying to understand each other. That's the path to finding that middle ground. Take care of yourselves, everyone.

Kay(SO)

[Sally]

It's been a wonderful thread to date and I'd suggest it's been very enlightening to many people.
If I may, I'd just like to add a couple thoughts from someone who is more than just a CD.

I know I've said this before, but to give an insight into me, I don't think that I'm a woman, I don't feel there is a woman trapped inside me, I realise I am biologically a male, and a father and husband, even if my brain isn't in sync with my body.

To me, the clothing is secondary, all it really does is bring the outside presentation into line with my mind, but having said that, I really do dress for physical comfort and to me much of womens clothing is not comfortable, much of it is made for reasons other than pure physical comfort.

I cannot fathom how anyone could think that 4/5/6 inch high heeled shoes are comfortable. They may enhance a ladies leg look but the few times I ever wore them many years ago, I couldn't get them off quick enough after walking and standing in them for some time. I also think that pantyhose is one of the most uncomfortable pieces of clothing ever made. I prefer stockings and garter belt every time for any occaison I need to dress to the nines. Although I have never worn a girdle or like garment, to me they have always presented as an uncomfortable garment too. I find cotton under wear is the most comfortable to wear. Lacey nylon things may be a ' lot more sexy ', but that is never the reason why I wear what I do, I find nylon or any synthetics next to my skin quite irritating after a while, but of course, we are all different.

I know how I think and feel myself about crossdressing and the reason I have done it all my life, but I have difficulty comprehending the reasons some people suggest as to why they do what they do. By this I mean I have many male friends who tell me that they are 100% man and have never had the slightest wish that they had been born female, but, they still dress from head to foot as a woman. They dress from high heels, all the under wear garments, false boobs, wig, make-up, the whole kit and caboodle and they wish to 'pass' as a woman.

To me, if it were just about the clothing, then why the need to pass as the complete woman, especially the breasts, to me breasts depict true womanhood and motherhood, they are the second most urgent thing on a TS's list. I can see why a wife would be so worried when she is presented with this scenario if she went into the union unaware of her hubbys 'secret' CD desires and needs. I know my wife was petrified when I was finally stated to be TS, even though it was something I always knew within my own heart and mind, the realisation and confirmation was not easy to deal with. If I had my way I would have preferred I was not born as I am and to say anything else would be less than being honest, but we are what we are, that's just how it is. One consolation for wives is that in the scale of crossdressers, only a minute number ever prove up to be more than that, even if many people believe at some stage they are TS.

I think that Kay's last paragraph should become one of the commandments of all TG people and their SO's, where she says,

"One more thing I wanted to say, just in general. We (SO's) may never truly know how you feel and you (CD'rs) may never know how we truly feel. What's in the middle is empathy and compassion and if we can meet there, anything can be worked out. The important thing is that we all keep trying to understand each other. That's the path to finding that middle ground."

I believe that as a husband or wife we have to give our loved one our complete honesty in how we feel, if either holds back and is less than completely honest then the true common ground will never be found. Whatever transgressions may have gone in the past doesn't mean that there can't be a new beginning. If there is true love then there is always hope. Nobody born is ever perfect, but it's those imperfections which make us perfect. Compassion and tolerance go hand in hand with honesty, but having said that we must always accept the fact that not everybody can accept what others may need to do in their life and this is where true love is put to the test. I have seen many times the old game of, if he really loved me he wouldn't do it and reversely he says if she really loved me she would let me do it, well with that attitude there is no hope of ever finding common ground.

In our case it took many many days, weeks and months of talk, talk and more talk mixed with lots of tears, fears, doubts and indecisions. Someone had to bend a lot more than the other and it was clear it had to be me as the survival rate for marriages after complete transition is about zilch. The two things which cemented my decision were these.
No matter how strongly I desired to be the person I was meant to be, I knew I couldn't live without my wife and I couldn't bear to hurt her as much as I knew I would. The second was that I had created three children and they deserved to have two parents together for as long as our natural life allowed. My children had more than double the expected life span to live than I was left with, so they would have had many more years of pain to endure having lost their father than I would have had living with the pain of never being able to completely be who I needed to be, ( if all that makes sense to everyone.)

This was all part of us finding common ground where we could both extract the best from life we could expect in the circumstances and still keep our family together. I believe that in most cases it's possible to find that common ground if both parties are willing to bend and see things from the other persons point of view. I don't wish to offend anyone but I have personally seen many CD's who are selfish and will not give and take. In many instances it has been where they revealed to their wife and she more or less gave acceptance to it to some degree and it turned out to be a case of give and inch and a mile is taken and that is a receipe for disaster in my book.

I also feel deeply and quite sad for those people who have an SO who is incapable of accepting what they need to do, (but don't blame her) for some people it's impossible to accept and that's 'end of story'. It's just like anything else, some people can accept most things in life where others can't, we're all different. I believe that anyone who commits to a marriage and keeps a secret which has the potential to seriously damage the relationship, if revealed later, is the one who has to give the most ground in any compromise. On average women are more compassionate and forgiving than men, but there are always limits.

As Kay says, "Anything can be worked out" (in most cases).

I hope no one takes offence at anything I've said as that was never the intention. I always say things as I see them, for anyone to be less than honest defeats our purpose, I still learn every day, I love to see how others think. Exchanges of experiences, ideas and suggestions is how we grow and expand our minds and thinking, which goes to make us better educated people on life itself. It's just like building anything in life, if we take a little bit from here and a little bit from there which we feel can apply to our own situation and be of help, then we eventually finish up with 'the real deal'.

Kind Regards.

Sally.

[Beauty]

A+ post.

Thank you Sally.

Specifically I agree with what you said about Kay's acceptance paragraph that you quoted.

I agree about feeling sorry for women who say, "Ok, maybe a little." and then find themselves under tons of new clothing purchased by their SO.

I also agree that I feel horrible for those who don't have an accepting spouse.

I'm glad you're back, btw.

Beauty

[RedJellyBaby(SO)]

Sorry i have not had time to answer you JulieM (i read your reply but did not have time to write)
Ive been doing a lot of thinking about this lately. I even found this info http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/505095.stm and found it quite interesting and also rather amusing, particularly the beginning where it is stated that it seems female legs are not joined together at all!! See now you will all have to go look as the above does not make sense.

Right, im a bit of a technophobe so i cannot quote multiple items so bear with me if i misquote you...ill do my best.

Firstly, D. Beckham, i concede that he is not representative of the general population or indeed of the reaction Joe Bloggs from the end of the street may have to face. So i will abandon David Beckham..haha..bet thats a first for him.

However, i asked my hubby about the image you portrayed of yourself wearing a lovely billowing skirt and maybe a T shirt (i think you said open and showing your hairy chest? or did i dream that bit ?! ) and he said that that just wouldnt 'do' it for him. He would still need to wear the make up and go through the whole transformation, since, for him, its about the way he looks to himself (in the mirror and photos) and not primarily about the way it feels to dress in the actual 'items'.
Im sure one of the other SOs posted saying that her husband had said the same thing too. So it would seem that being comfortable with the image you described would certainly not be universal and could differ from CD to CD. Maybe it makes a difference how long the individual has been dressing...not dressing but dressing with acceptance of themselves if you see what i mean.
As regards to men not making a big deal about women wearing trousers. I am no historian (please anyone if any of this is wrong, wade in and correct me) but i seem to have this dull recollection of learning about how (in the UK at least) women REALLY started wearing trousers at the start of WW1 when they were called upon to fill the manual, physical jobs that their men had vacated to go fight in the war. At the time, this seems to have been for a practical reason..i mean these women were working in factories making ammunition, parachutes, employed as drivers etc etc.
Now when the men returned, from what i have been told (im only 33 ) they expected the women to return to the kitchen sink and at that time that is literally where they would have been. The women obviously had quite enjoyed their freedom and independance and so resisted in many cases, or at least became more ambitious about their own destinies. Finally to the point, it was at this point that Child Benefit was created to get the women back to childrearing and leave the men to their jobs.(basically bribery!) So the men of that era DID indeed obsess about the change in their women and quite a lot of fuss was made.
So in conclusion i would assume that wearing trousers was just an additional benefit which went along with shaking the chains of such a restrictive culture back then.

I think the world probably would be a happier place if people could do what they want without fear of being placed in a box with a label attached.

The only other point i still have major issues with is when you advocate SOs encouraging CDing at the very start and over indulging even. I agree with Kayso when she writes that it seems there is little understanding of the complexity or severity of emotions that SOs go through whilst attempting to accept.

My husband recently said to me something like, 'This is like a line ive drawn in the sand', when talking about the limits of his CDing. I had to remind him that as an SO i am stood on that same beach along with him, looking at the line he has drawn. However, when i turn around i see many other lines drawn behind us.
I know that is a daft analogy but it is SO difficult to understand or accept something which is ever-evolving and changing, especially when driven by such strong urges which have been buried for what seems like forever to the CD.

Your comments do help SOs to learn about everything. I take comments from here and present them to my hubby and see his reaction or take on things too..so you are all helping us to communicate more and for us, that is paramount.
Thank you
RJB xx

Sally,

One thing in your post stood out (even tho the whole post was lovely) and that was
'Whatever transgressions may have gone in the past doesn't mean there can't be a new beginning'

This is where we are now. Trying to start again with all of the current concerns and feelings and hopefully leaving the deceit (whether intentional or not ) in the past.
<<RJB reminds herself that above sentence will be brought up next time she rants.

[Beauty]

Hi,

Even if there wasn't deciet it would still be difficult to handle.

CD'ing is a tough thing for SOs to cope with all the time.

I'm curious, without the deceit, how do you think things would be? Would you have not fallen in love? It's hard to tell because you are in the now, but I was curious what you think would be different?

Beauty