A coward against genderism

[SilverLady(SO)]

It is patently obvious that the discussion has gone way off course from the original topic of genderism. I will remind *everyone* that discussion of politics or religion is not allowed at this forum except as it directly applies to LGBT issues, and only those issues. Given the topic of this thread, neither politics nor religion should even be discussed.

If you wish this topic to continue you will do so without any references to politics or religion, and specifically Islam and Muslims, no matter how 'veiled' it is. There are search engines and trolls that constantly monitor for those topics and I do NOT want this forum - and its members - on their radar.


I am seriously considering one of two options:

1. Move the topic to the Hot Topics section, or

2. Delete the topic in its entirety.


How everyone proceeds from this point forward will make the decision for me, so choose wisely.


Capisce?


- SL

[Eileen (SO)]

I have one important thing to add.

Come south of the border and we have a President telling the American population transgenders are too expensive to allow them to serve in the armed forces. What's next?

The purpose of our military is to defend our nation, not provide free medical care for gender dysphoria. A soldier in the midst of treatment cannot serve our country in time of need. What part of that is not understandable?

Eileen

[Victoria K.]

I learned that change is not going to happen unless you stick one heel forward and don't stop.

[Anne Bonny]

I agree. I will be mum. I make this one point though because for women, gays, and all who are LGBTQ we are anathema to a society in which Islam gains the upper hand. Islam is a THEOCRATIC IDEOLOGY it is not a pure religion which is what makes it a killer bee on steroids. Douglas Murray wrote a book recently entitled The Strange Death of Europe, Immigration, Identity, Islam. He is gay, of Jewish heritage, but is also I believe agnostic. We have brought into our midst a Trojan Horse bent on conquest...mark my words.

I will cease and I apologize...I also celebrate the rights that I have in our wonderful country and under our constitution in the greatest country on the face of this earth in terms of the individual rights and freedoms afforded to all.

As a transgender or gender fluid person this issue does effect our freedom to live openly and to be who we are as a transgender or gender fluid person this issue should be a concern. I understand there is huge disagreement but I will go silent on this and hope you can forgive me for being concerned about something that will make our future very uncertain.

I am not against people, not against any race or origin but what they believe ideologically does make a difference.

[Victoria K.]

Never go silent hon!! You should always speak freely. Yes this is a crazy world with crazy people, but I would rather live my life the way I choose too do so with pride. Yes there are risks for being open but I would not be willing to live in this world of ours if I could not be me. So I release my fear and if the time ever comes that I am persecuted for what I do! so be it. I would rather live and die being who I am rather than hiding away and denying myself of who I am.

[Diana Michelle]

A soldier in the midst of treatment cannot serve our country in time of need.

Eileen

I am not going to get too deep into semantics however it is not treatment, the process is called transition. Either way I think you need to better define the term "treatment." Are we talking of therapy? HRT? Undergoing GCS and the recovery from it? There are many phases to the transition process and term.

Again not to beat a dead horse I raise the issue of pregnancy and female military members. I and am certain you as well would not want to send a pregnant service member into combat. How does affect preparedness?

The Pentagon commissioned the RAND Corporation which most acknowledge as non partisan to conduct a study on transgenders in the military. The report came back stating the estimated medical costs to be roughly $10 million annually and would have a "negligible effect" on preparedness. Now I have no idea what they consider negligible and would like a better explanation of that however it does say something.

Now $10 million is a lot of money especially when one remembers that is my and your and a lot of other people's tax dollars. I could even fluff it off by saying the government wastes more than that weekly or use the old term "a drop in the ocean." However as I said $10 million is a lot of money and if no one else wants it you can toss it my way! Still studies and reports I have seen and read place the cost of replacing those transgendered service members at as high as $100 million or more! What was it the late Senator Everett Dirksen of Illinois said? "A billion here, a billion there and the next thing you know you are talking about real money."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... an-n797851

It seems that at least certain former high ranking military leaders feel this ban on transgenders serving in the military is unwarranted as well.

I have said it before and will say it again. I salute and respect anyone who puts on the uniform to protect the freedoms we Americans too often take for granted. However to blatantly deny any group be it based on gender orientation, race, religion, ethnic background or whatever to serve their country relegates them to second class citizens. Is this what we want?

[Anne Bonny]

Transgenders already serve in the military...I did! I sure fantasized about wearing the woman's uniform but only in a fantasy world in my mind. Being a husband, a Father, a family member....well, personally I kept it to myself off duty and at home. I sure did have shiny red toenails and shaved legs and panties on under my uniform from time to time... The policy of the time was Don't Ask Don't Tell. The reality is that even were it to be allowed to serve openly there are annual evaluations completed by your immediate supervisor making very subtle remarks where one word inserted here or there could sound very good to the unschooled ear but be the kiss of death when it came to your ability to be competitive for promotion on you OPR. There were some performance factors as well. You could think it all sounded fine but you would be miserably wrong... Then there are overall assessments. signed off by your supervisor, Flight Chief, and Commander.

Believe me...it is very easy to knock someone down, and highly unlikely any challenge to these evaluations would ever be altered and believe me even a congressional inquiry is going to go nowhere when it comes to a military evaluation.

Even if Transgenders were allowed to serve openly...If you want to have a career and make the minimum of 20 years for retirement you are highly unlikely to serve openly knowing that the attitude of those above you are set in stone and the knife that slits the throat of your career would be so painless that when you went to turn your head and it rolled off your shoulders you would have no idea it had even been severed.

Of course many only want to serve a 4 year hitch or eventually get out at the 8 or 10 year mark... They are young so....for them suppose it is more or less alright they will get out and start working toward retirement after their service at a relatively young age..22 or age 28 or 29....30?

You can really only be passed over twice...third time you are out. If you are passed over once for promotion it is incredibly nearly impossible to be picked up the second time your chances drop substantially because it is a mark against you that you have to overcome.

Nah...I would not risk it. The military is a place where young men infused with testosterone may not have your back at a crucial moment because of who you are and no one would be the wiser.

Yeah I dreamed of low heeled patent leather pumps, hose a skirt and tie tab hair pinned neatly with small round ball shaped ear rings in my ears and make up.... It is a complete fantasy land if you want a career. The culture is against you and I was in the closet except to my wife.

Don't Ask Don't Tell worked well for me...got my retirement.

I tell you what...there are some wonderful people in the military but it only takes one to ruin your entire working environment. A little power in the hands of the wrong person can make your assignment a living hell. There are some very sadistic very cruel sociopathic people who enjoy tearing you down...to build theirselves up. You go where you are sent and you can only leave if others are willing to give you an open slot others are competing for. You do your best abd are there early and expect you may be there late...God forbid you are late or leave early depends on your boss...but others are watching so you are there striving to go above and beyond...it is high pressure to perform and high stress. You are a gentleman at all times, never complain. You hope you Excell every day to a high degree...promotions require stepping out...being a contributing committee member, volunteer..and are noticed by impressed superiors. Any problems are home...performance and work, mistakes slacking, late leave early, drugs, alcohol...you can be thrown out so fast it would make your head spin. So...nope even if Transgenders were allowed really...gee...it's your career...I would never have risked it the culture is etched in stone.

Yeah you go where you are sent and do what you are told to do...what was that Forest Gump line? Gee can't remember but it was one line that was so true about the military...great line...if it comes to me I'll add it later. No! Not box of chocolates or stupid is as... Any way I am glad I made it to retirement they can't lay a glove on me any more...

You never knew...well sometimes you would hear things about who was in charge good or horrible so if you could you'd hope to avoid some places...moves can be frying pan to fire if the wrong person was there...you could report in and be quite happy...or find you were in a living hell due to some pot hole in charge...

[Diana Michelle]

Having never served in the military I will accept what you say about reviews, etc. at face value. While I am sure this happens way too often it occurs as well everyday in American businesses of all sizes. The use of a single word or phrase can put a stop to someone's career growth in an instant simply because the reviewer does not like the individual being reviewed. The fact this occurs even a single time is regrettable however we are all human and subject to our opinions and emotions.

Some have questioned the motives of transgendered desiring to serve in the military. As I said in another thread on this issue and I believe Anne has reinforced personally I can think of few more potentially hostile environments to come out as transgendered than the military.

[Anne Bonny]

Right...Diana...As I say there are some who do not plan to stay just there for 4-10 years and out...My wife's Dr was gay...I never said anything he was brilliant and a wonderful person and I am lucky now that he is a civilian for years now that he is connected with my wife's hospice and he is on my cell phone and we send the rare message. I still remember the Halloween he wore a black dress to work - the women in the clinic ate it up! He I am sure cleared it but pretty brazen and as an internist he did not plan on retiring but moving to the civilian side.

Right too the civilian world is probably even more cut throat?? Or can be....

There are ombudsmen and EEO..equal opportunity reps to investigate issues even for women...all kinds of reps and the command are just paranoid to ensure everything is handled correctly because it is their career! Bend over backwards because anything that happens is their head on a platter, their responsibility...So who knows....

[Amanda R]

The very fact there is a need for ombudsmen, EEO reps, or whatever they are called is a sad commentary on our society whether it be in the military, government, business, or educational institutions. I understand why there are there but the fact they need to be is sad.