complete elimination of personal distance

[Grace]

I've been reflecting on something that has happened only a handful of times, but was truly profound in the way it felt. Typically, in a chance encounter while out en-femme, a woman would say something to me about a shared experience, or something she noticed, and suddenly it seemed as though there was absolutely no personal distance between us. It was almost spiritual, like we were both on the inside of each other's minds. It's hard to express, but compelling in its experience. Here are some examples:

Once was when I was shopping at a sale, a woman whom I didn’t know mentioned how much fun it is to shop sales, and there was a feeling of mutual “in the know," shared experience, but more than that, the personal space that separated us seemed to disappear completely. Another time, a woman noticed a pair of earrings I was wearing (small dangling lipsticks, which are kind of a sneaky in-your-face "I'm a woman and if you're a man, I know this probably bothers you” look); she looked at me with a smile that said "yes, I get you" and that same complete disappearance of personal distance happened. Another time I was in a salon getting a pedicure and the woman at the next station mentioned how nice it was to have some personal pampering time, and again, that same disappearance of personal distance happened.

I suspect most men never experience this, and it is probably common for women, and possibly a closely-guarded secret. I feel privileged to have experienced this.

Has anyone else experienced this, and how frequently, and how did it feel? For the GGs reading this, am I correct in believing this is not uncommon between women?

Cheers,

Grace

[KimberlyS]

Grace I believe I have had a similar connection with another gal. I think I posted it some other time but will summarize it. I was in Target doing a quick look through the bras when a gal with a young child in a cart came into the isle also. A guy in that isle often makes gals very nervous often to the point they just turn and walk out and wait for the guy to leave. I was ready to just walk away as I could see this gal was set on looking at the bras and did not want to push her out or make her uneasy. Well before I could get out of there she started up a conversation with me. She started asking me bra questions like I was an expert. I do not know if she was in such a need that she would take help from anyone. She had just had the child and had grown a bit on top and a lot of her questions were on sizing. Yes she told me that which I thought was a lot of extra information for not only a stranger but a strange guy. Or was she talking to me because we just had this sudden connection and she sensed that I could help her, and I hope I was able to help her. I end by telling her she should really try them on since she was unsure about sizing so she could get the right size. And even better to be fitted. But she said she was in a hurry and seemed content with what I was telling her.

After we parted I checked again that I was really in guy mode and thinking to myself "Did that just happen". She just treated me like another gal that had been wearing bras for years and knew what she was talking about. So there was some connection there.

kimberlys

[Ralitsa]

Yes, I do know that feeling and have had similar experiences.

Mostly, like you said, while shopping or at the salon. I'd say that the most memorable time was when I stopped off at a mall in South Dakota to pick up a few things and got sidetracked into a little shop. I wrote post about that when it happened a year or so back, but I'm too lazy to search for it. Anyway one of the SA's picked out a huge stack of dresses for me to try, and she and another shopper checked me out in them and gave advice and helped me choose a couple of them. They were just the most open and forthright talking about the way they fit, the colors, what occasions I could wear them for, and everything. There wasn't the slightest bit of awkwardness or anything, it felt like the most natural thing in the world.

[Carole Hill]

Yes, I too, have had many instances where women have made comments to me regarding something I am wearing, sharing thoughts while doing similar activities, etc. No, men rarely, if ever do anything similar. Although I have had a few men interact with me as if I were a woman. This is one of the things that I find enjoyable about presenting as a woman.

[Sarah Rene]

It is a bit ironic that the this subject came up here as I was with some friends the other week and the subject of the loss of personal space came up. IMO in a way we are guilty of allowing it to happen with the advent of social networks and all the information out there about yourself freely available on the internet. If you don't believe me just Google yourself and see all that is out there.

We think nothing of allowing our phones or a website to know where we are when visiting a variety of sites or apps. I know I don't even think about it and have many times consented to it whether it be looking online for a store ad or a nearby location for a chain restaurant. Even when we use the GPS in our phones we are not only telling it where we are but also where we are going. Do you really think that all disappears once we exit it? I don't know how many of you are on Facebook but look at some of your "friends" pages or even your own. Do you really think it is a coincidence after searching for something online you are suddenly bombarded with ads for that or similar items? Ladies I hate to break it to you we are all just a big number in the sky!

Now that I got that out of my system, I have many times been asked or asked another woman about a certain item I had or they had on. Generally it starts with something innocent like "That is a cute dress, where did you get it?" To be honest I have never thought twice about it nor do I consider it a violation of my personal space. It is just how women are. If anything I consider it a compliment when someone asks me something like that. Granted it is usually women but I have been asked once or twice by a man but it is more like "My wife would look nice in something like that, where would I find it?" or something similar. Even then I generally don't feel threatened or I have lost my personal space.

All that said I have been shopping for a bra or panties and had a woman say something or ask something and never thought twice about it. Not sure I would feel the same if it were a man. Back in college I worked at Target for a while and I can remember there was one guy who would come in later in the evening, generally shortly before closing and head straight to the panty displays. We all surmised he was either a deeply closeted CD or a creep because he would look and fondle but never buy. Maybe that image of him has tainted me a little.

[Grace]

Sarah,

I understand the negative phenomenon of invasion and violation of personal space-- it happens all the time, and is an unfortunate side effect of our interconnected and, shall we say, greedy, world.

However, this isn't the phenomenon that I was referring to. What I experienced a precious rare number of times is more like total permission to share personal space, and I've never experienced it with another male. It feels like a totally natural thing that happens between women, and involves unquestioned trust and openness. It is surprising when it happens, and an amazing validation and acceptance of my female side. It is really hard to describe unless you've experienced it. I liken it to trying to describe the taste of vanilla to someone who has never tasted it-- only the experience of it truly explains it. When it happens it is like all barriers disappearing and we enter a totally shared space. It reminds me that we (consciously or unconsciously) erect walls around ourselves, partly for protection, to avoid judgement, to avoid letting people see who we really are, and this phenomenon I'm describing feels like those walls cease to exist.

Grace

[Diana Michelle]

Women in general are more open and congenial particularly with other women. IMO men think it shows weakness if they do it because it may hint at a softer side and we all know stereotypes reign. Like I have said about many things, it is not right nor is it wrong, just how it is. Grace whether these women "make" you shouldn't cross your mind here but rather enjoy the fact they can see through the stereotype to the person you are. I know even way back when I came out back in the 1970's women were more accepting and understanding than men for the most part.

Over the years I have encountered more than one man in the lingerie department. Call it a sixth sense because I can usually tell if they are reaslly looking for something for the wife or girlfriend or they are shopping for themsleves. If asked I have offered suggestions or help and do not generally feel like my persoanl space has been violated regardless if it is another woman, a girl dressed or a male be he just that or a girl in drab. I say generally because if he starts the conversation with a question like "What type of panties do you wear?" or "What's your bra size?" I head towards the nearest door.

Keep in mind girls your money is just as green as the next person's. With the exception of a very few small family owned shops they could care less who buys or wears it. It is about the sale. Most SA's are usually willing to help in any way they can. That said, don't take advantage of that! If you are just looking then tell them that and please don't monopolize the dressing room trying on dress after dress you have no intentions of buying. Build the rapport for that time you are really shopping and not looking as well as paving the way for the next girl that comes in. We have come a long way in the eyes of many although we still have a long way to go. Through positive personal interaction each of you builds the image for all of us.

[Sarah Rene]

I agree with you 1000% Diana, In case you can't tell I majored in history not math.

Grace I apologize if you took the beginning of my post the wrong way. I know it was a bit of a rant but it is a pet peeve of mine. Never really got into the Facebook thing although have friends who IMHO are obsessed by it. It is ironic because I had a call from my one of my student's mothers who told me her son wasn't ready for the test last week as I hadn't posted it on my Facebook page and I should let him retake it because he flunked it as he wasn't ready. I told her I don't do that and everyone knew about the test as I had announced it in class and had written it up on the board, All the other students were ready so why should he be so special? She told me that all the other teachers did it that way so I asked did that mean if they all jumped off a bridge should I? Enough said!

There is a camaraderie between women that doesn't exist with men. It is kind of a sisterhood. It is not a violation or collapsing of personal space, just how we are. Men bond over things like sports teams or cars, while women react to something as simple as an off handed remark like "Cute color of nail polish." From there it can get into a long discussion. I have experienced it many times over a wide range of subjects, and it IMO shows the differences between the genders. When you add to that women are generally more outgoing and easy going it only makes sense.

I remember when I first happened to me I was quite young and still a little unsure about everything. It took me back a bit. Thankfully my sister took the time to explain all of this to me and to get used to it. I have had many conversations with women I didn't know while shopping or in a check out line or wherever. I have initiated some of these and some they did, it makes no difference. Grace this is bound to happen if you are out femme be it curiosity or a genuine desire to empathize. IMO it shows even if this woman "made" you she is a wonderful person.

[Anne Bonny]

I really don't get out much...been bra shopping at Walmart...no one cared. Before my wife died many of the hospice personnel were very accepting, the social worker still comes and we talk...well once a month to check on me. I have experienced a little of that messaging with one of my wife's nieces who was there throughout all of this and yeah it was all out in the open and at times I felt as if I was a girl with a friend...girlfriends. She is still out there but we have not messaged as much of late.

[Emily]

I've experienced this lack of personal distance now on more than one occasion. It certainly makes you feel included and part of the sisterhood. Sometimes there is a good, strong, connection. Other times, not. Right now, one of my challenges is finding my place and being comfortable - being able to interact, converse, basically, just to be one of the girls. I admit... some of the conversations I've had would have never happened if I was still a man. Women have a way of opening up to each other that men rarely do. I am in the process of learning how to open up and share... It's a challenge for me as it's not something I've ever really been able to do, but I am slowly getting there.