Personal Space, Codependency, and Whatnot

Lorna · Post by **Lorna** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:08 pm

This runs deeper than just the dressing. It’s about personal time and space. Putting aside one's personal time every so often in order to take care of business is a necessary evil in this world. But it does leave me feeling somewhat agitated and irritable.

Why do I feel like I never have enough time for me? Am I wrong in feeling this way? On one hand these are family obligations that I really should not miss. But on the other hand I have attended a LOT of birthdays over the past 2 months, plus there was Easter AND Mother’s Day thrown into the mix. Add to this all of the court dates and the community service (my fault yes, but I just want it to be over & done already) and the landscaping and the babysitting and the constant moving of furniture (payback to my family for the money they had to lend me to pay the fines & time spent going back & forth with me to court)

I am appreciative of all of it, don’t get me wrong. But now I feel like I’m somehow TRAPPED in a cage of codependency. I feel as if I have sold my soul, and am now “owned” somehow.

I now realize that living 20 minutes away from the family is NOT FAR ENOUGH.

I guess I’m just tired of feeling CLUTTERED with so much to do, so much on my plate, my calendar being constantly full.

I am single for a reason. I wanted QUIET weekends to do as I pleased with NO obligations. Instead I just jump & rush over to Mom’s every time she needs landscaping work done or my sister needs a babysitter. (Side note: I am practically raising my sister’s 5 y.o. daughter but that’s another topic)

Now this weekend is already cluttered up – have a communion to attend Saturday – so there goes my Friday night out. And getting out for a few hours on Sunday is out of the question – for I have to work on Monday.

Finding a job however was the BEST thing that happened to me. The chain of codependency is now officially BROKEN. And as for my sister who refuses to own up to her responsibility, she's now on her own. (She acted as my lawyer in court; she didn't give me a kidney! Plus I gave her $5,000 towards her wedding 6 years ago, again that's another topic)

Anyway, that's the end of my little vent. I'm really hoping for a little feedback here. Any sort of commentary at all would REALLY be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Wed May 12, 2004 1:24 am

Lorna wrote; I'm really hoping for a little feedback here. Any sort of commentary at all would REALLY be appreciated.

I really don't know what to say Lorna dear, The only thought that came to mind is that there might have been some rescuing involved in what you have described.

Good luck with your new job.

Gaven McLaren · Post by **Gaven McLaren** » Wed May 12, 2004 5:54 am

I agree with you about being single for a reason. Hey I love being able to just get in my truck and go at times. Yes it is a selfish reason but I love the freedom.

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Wed May 12, 2004 6:26 am

Morning Lorna,

The forum was super busy last night so I missed this one.

Everything you've identified is a incredible sign of co-dependency. You do a lot of things for other people, but you wonder, "Hey what have I done for me?"

All of the things you named are really to show your support and love for others and that's was co-dependent people do. Now although one would think, "So supporting others is wrong these days? Yeah right!" The truth is the bad part about being co-dependent is the reaction when someone craps on us and doesn't appreciate what we've done for them. The co-dependent trap is there.

Co-dependents tend to get VERY angry when all of their efforts are ignored and that's what unhealthy. For example, I used to go over the line to help people with ANYTHING. It didn't matter how uncomfy it was for me, I'd just do it because they needed help. They didn't ask most of the time and if they asked and it was a bad idea for me, I didn't want to, I was not comfortable, or I just thought it was a bad idea, I'd do it anyway because I wanted them to know I supported them.

Well, the majority of the time. It was a bad idea, I hated every minute of what I was doing, I wasn't comfortable.

They never knew it though. Then later I'd ask for something and that person would say, "No. Can't .. I have this to do." and I would get livid! Meanwhile it was about something that they couldn't do. I'd think, "But I totally sacrificed for you and you can't for me?!?" Their answer, "No and why the heck are you freaking out?!?" They didn't understand that I was actually counting what I did as a favor and it wasn't that I was "owed" anything. I didn't ever realize I was getting that upset.

That would destroy me with the second thing (not in order). The guilt of going off on someone and being mean. I would think I was a bad person because I'd know I volunteered to do things for people and that at anytime I could have said, "No... I don't want to do that." So then I'd get down on myself and feel like I owed them because I was being selfish. This would set off the invisible cycle again.

When I went to support meetings I was surprised by how all of these people did the EXACT same thing I did. The other thing I was amazed about was that those people were so normal looking. They looked like the nicest people in the world. They were all supportive looking people. I thought I was in Mayberry at those meetings and then I'd hear the heart wrenching stories of the pain they felt from helping out others and taking it out on them when their requests for assistance were ignored. Or the countless stories of being taken advantage of by those (friends/relatives/acquaintances) who would abuse their codependency and get them to do whatever they wanted to by just applying guilt enough to make the codependent person give in and do things they did not want to. That could range from mountain climbing to helping wash their car when there were sick.

In CODA I learned that I was the problem, not those I was helping. I had to learn to give myself the right to say, "I'm sorry I can't help you." and not explain it away or stay awake all night feeling guilty about it. I had to remove users from my life. Those who would use me just because they knew I'd do what ever it took to make them happy. I'd spend forever on the phone, I'd drive them where ever they needed to be taken, I'd give them my last dollar, you name it I did it for them. Lastly I accepted those who I loved so much that I couldn't let them out of my life, but I could learn to tell them "no". This was new for some people I knew, but eventually they stopped asking me "Please, why not, oh come on, why are you ignoring me." When I said, "No" that was it. I didn't owe anyone an explanation. I loved them and they had to trust me.

It took over 10 years to get to the point I am now. It was hard work to convince myself that I was doing the right thing for myself and those I cared about and loved.

I hope this all made sense Lorna. You sound a lot like I was. You are a great person, a very kind person. Odd that would be an ailment, no?

Hugs and kisses!!
Beauty

Josey · Post by **Josey** » Wed May 12, 2004 6:39 am

Hello Lorna,

I am highly sympathetic. )))))) I also live alone and am retired. My calendar looks twice as busy as it did when I worked. Between taking care of 10 acres, caring for my very sick mother and watching my grandchildren, my time doesn't even come close to being my own.

There ought to be a law!!! soap

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Wed May 12, 2004 7:03 am

Hey Beauty,

I can see that I am not the only one here who has had to do some serious searching in life.

I would just like to add to what you have said here, by telling you that I to used to be like that, and that is what I was referring to when I mentioned the term rescuing.

What I discovered about myself, is that is what I used to do in order to feel good about myself. In other words my self worth depended on my ability to take care of other people's needs. And when they did not return the favor I was not a happy camper, because my self worth had just been shattered. I was in essence giving other people way to much control over my feelings.

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Wed May 12, 2004 7:05 am

Hi Darlene.

Thank you for that post it meant a lot.

Virginia · Post by **Virginia** » Wed May 12, 2004 7:44 am

Hey, Hey Hey,! Deborah wants to know if she can just scratch out Beauty's name and put hers on that post!? Awesome. I may not have gone as far as wanting reciprocal action, but then again maybe sub-consciously I did. I guess when the anima comes out in us and the nurturing aspect comes to the forefront it is just who we are and we keep on keeping on. The fact that it appears that no one cares anymore is somewhat evident when I go out, dressed and simply drive around. Everyone is in their own litlle world, either they have a cell phone implanted in their ear or they just stare straight ahead like they are in some type of catatonic stupor - which a lot of them are! Yes, as we develop the feminine side of our personna, we need to realize that the giving is an integral part of our anima and as Jung points out: "The inclusion of the female effects a change in the male personality, producing a new personality that is better than either alone." The great Jewish philosopher, Jesus, said that we are here on earth to give aid and comfort to our fellow travelers on this veil of tears. So go forth and do likewise my sisters.

Love ya,
Deborah

PS BEauty, I am not that far from Northern Va. here in Roanoke and I will come up there and drag your pert little butt out of your sancturary for a girls only shopping spree!

Lorna · Post by **Lorna** » Wed May 12, 2004 4:35 pm

Thanks so much girls. Thanks for reading. And thanks for all of your input. It really means a lot. Thank you.

On the bright side, a very close GG friend of mine and I have agreed to share an apartment in Manhattan as of this fall. We are givng ourselves until the fall because we both want to make sure we have more than enough money put aside in case of anything unexpected. Why Manhattan? Because a) it's Manhattan!!! b) it's a good hour away from the family, c) EVERYTHING is here d)you DON'T need a car in Manhattan so no worrying about repairs or high insurance or traffic tickets... $\:D/$

Plus, nobody from Long Island will want to make the trip all the way into Manhattan to come & hound me for "last minute" nonsense! That's for sure... meaning I can spend most of my free time as Lorna if I want... but the best will be... NO KIDS to run after!

Just covering my bases, that's all... I've got a sister & BIL staying with my mother currently (she's pregnant, he's unemployed) and they're not doing SQUAT to help out. I'm the one who has to be summoned to travel out of the way, go over & help out with yard work or kid watching or what have you...

Well, as I mentioned above, the chain of codepency shall soon be BROKEN. Having a little freedom and independence will be a major step for me mentally.

Lorna · Post by **Lorna** » Wed May 12, 2004 5:08 pm

Beauty wrote:That would destroy me with the second thing (not in order). The guilt of going off on someone and being mean. I would think I was a bad person because I'd know I volunteered to do things for people and that at anytime I could have said, "No... I don't want to do that." So then I'd get down on myself and feel like I owed them because I was being selfish. This would set off the invisible cycle again.

You said it exactly, Beauty. This would be the only reason I would succumb every time. When I ran into trouble, they were the ones who lent me the money I needed to pay all the fines & legal fees & such... which again I am appreciative of, which I have acknowleged over and over again...

But I recently began to feel resentful of them because it's now as if they have forgotten about all of the times in the past when any one of them needed help and I was the one putting his life on hold at the last minute to watch kids or lending out money to help pay for mortgages or weddings. Bottom line is: I always came through. How quickly they forget!

They act like I've been given a kidney. I feel as if they're using my recent trouble as a "tool" somehow... someting they have to hold over my head for the rest of my life. And that is where the conflict came in.

Lorna · Post by **Lorna** » Wed May 12, 2004 5:10 pm

Gaven McLaren wrote:I agree with you about being single for a reason. Hey I love being able to just get in my truck and go at times. Yes it is a selfish reason but I love the freedom.

Freedom is great! And if there are no kids to begin with, then how can it be considered "selfish"?

Lorna · Post by **Lorna** » Wed May 12, 2004 5:16 pm

Josey wrote:Hello Lorna,

I am highly sympathetic. )))))) I also live alone and am retired. My calendar looks twice as busy as it did when I worked. Between taking care of 10 acres, caring for my very sick mother and watching my grandchildren, my time doesn't even come close to being my own.

There ought to be a law!!! soap

I agree, Josey! There ought to be a law. It's rough...

There comes a time where one has to put one's foot down and set boundaries. I don't mind helping out when I can, but when I am the one who has to rearrange MY schedule on account of SOMEONE ELSE'S child, then we have a problem.

I shouldn't be the one constantly giving up my free time to watch & raise a child that I did not bring into this world. My niece is NOT my responsibility. She has TWO parents, neither of who seem to want to own up to their parental obligations.

Lorna · Post by **Lorna** » Wed May 12, 2004 5:19 pm

Darlene wrote:Hey Beauty,

I can see that I am not the only one here who has had to do some serious searching in life.

I would just like to add to what you have said here, by telling you that I to used to be like that, and that is what I was referring to when I mentioned the term rescuing.

What I discovered about myself, is that is what I used to do in order to feel good about myself. In other words my self worth depended on my ability to take care of other people's needs. And when they did not return the favor I was not a happy camper, because my self worth had just been shattered. I was in essence giving other people way to much control over my feelings.

Same here, Darlene. It took me up until very recently to unlearn those patterns. You can't please everybody. That's a fact. So you might as well look out for #1.

Penny T · Post by **Penny T** » Fri May 14, 2004 8:50 pm

Hi Lorna,

Nobody gets through this world alone, but unless you've obligated yourself you don't owe anybody anything. Your charity is yours to decide how to use, and if you don't take the time you need someone else will. Outside of my TG work I help only those who are taking their own time to help others. The selfish can go straight to <insert expletive>. I have my own needs and I am the one responsible for seeing to them. Darn few ever helped me when I needed it, or gave me a moment of their time. Those who did have my time and efforts whenever they need them because I now have time for them and me too! I've told the rest that "I've spent half my life helping others and now it's my turn. Do for yourself. I've always had to."

My stress now comes from my work in the TG community, where even fewer people are willing to give a moment of their time or effort to do anything for anyone else, except maybe giving someone their cast-off clothes, wigs, make-up etc. Even those who are out and have plenty of free time will not sit for an hour at a TG booth, stand at the door and greet party guests, or even move tables around before a party. Were it not for my own selfish interests I wonder if I would be doing the Herculean work I do for the TG community. I guess I see what would happen if I quit, and I don't want to see that happen, so I go on. But oneday, the TG community wil hear these words come from my lips: "I have done for others long enough, now it's time for me. Do it yourself; I've always had to." and all they will see is the back of my skirt swaying as I walk away.

We must take care of those who take care of us to the extent that we owe them. Beyond that we owe nothing to anyone. And if you don't TAKE the time you need to live, someone else will take that time from you. Take care of Lorna and those who take care of you. Give the rest only what you want them to have from you. They won't die from it, they'll just find some other way to handle it, plus after a few times of you saying "No" they'll quit bugging you. You know what I say about being offended; the same thing works for guilt when you owe nothing.

Take care Sister. I promise that I'll get to NYC someday somehow just to see YOU!

Penny T.

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Fri May 14, 2004 9:17 pm

I don't think you could have said it any better Penny T!

That was wonderful!

Beauty