So confused about false add ons to body and image ?????

[Loretta Ann]

Interesting that you would describe it that way. I see what you have said, as it usually takes pain before change will happen, sometimes a very great amount of pain. That is what motivates us.

A burden that has been laid on my heart now for many years, is to try and help people recognize that, so that they might avoid some of the severe pain others have had to go through to get to where we are today.

Having said that I also realize that most of the people that are being helped by this forum are those who have already suffered a certain amount of that pain, and as result are already searching.

[Aislin]

Darlene,

Hugs to You and warm fuzzy thoughts.


I am here to help, and be helped.


Aislin

[Loretta Ann]

Aislin,

[Gelinda]

Thanks Aislin and Stef and all the rest. This seems like a small thing now as I have been found out by the wife. I think the Lord was working on it in the background as he does.

Now I am awaiting the Wife. Her in Texas and me in Ky does not help not the way I wanted it to happen but I will be able to sleep now and not be so crazy (coal Truck what a dumb statement).

I have posted the way it happened in another thread. Boy is the weight on my chest gone.

Aislin, as I am a Vet thanks for the closing statement early. I am going to take a nap and watch the boob tube for a while.

THe wife will be on here so time I hope. I do not know it is will be hidden or as an SO but that is her choice.

Oh what a Happy Day. Gee.

[Danielle La Belle]

I would like to address some original thought from Gelinda.

On the concept of what makes a woman. It has been my observation that a woman no more thinks about being that woman than a man thinks about being that man. You wake up and bingo, it is just you in the mirror. That is, if you consider the inner you, reflected in the physical you in the mirror.

TS people of course do not. While they may not choose to have surgery on any part of their body, some do choose less intensive changes via clothing as most other people in the T* family do. The question is, do you think that you are doing this to "fool" someone, or is it just a matter of self-expression? To "fool" someone, you may feel sensitive to the concept of hair, breasts, and other items that are added to complete the "look."

On a personal level, I am very aware of these items and use them as "props" in my image gathering forays with my love for the digital camera and related software that enables me to create wonderful concept photographs and art work that incorporates my personal image as Danielle.

When I meet others, if they are of like mind, they know my biological sex and that everything is just a "put-on." I am just saying, this is how I feel at the moment and if you talk to me in this mode, then in "guy" mode, you can clearly see the personality differences.

On God:

Religious based concepts are constructed to both inform and persuade you to accept the beliefs of another. Join this Church, Mosque, or Synagogue. That is up to you and what you are willing to accept as truth.

Setting aside all organized religion, I believe that God does not make mistakes. That God already knew about you before you did. That there simply cannot be anything that you do that God did not know about before hand. Forget time and space, they are not relevant when we speak about the capabilities of such a being.

We choose to accept a particular religion for many reasons, primarily as humans we are "joiners" and community beings in general. Throughout history, humans gather for many reasons as birds of a season. Joy, sorrow, love, consideration, we join together for common comfort.

The best that one can do, is follow a personal moral code that provides for the human race without exeption. I believe that there is a line....All that shall so believith in me shall see the kingdom of heaven. How you practice this concept is up to you. No one has a right to lay claim to this concept as some organized religions do. It is a personal concept that only needs to be examined by you and you alone. Each of us will stand alone with our history in tow if there is to be a final judgement of any kind. That girlfriend is the sum total.

Hugs

Danielle Marie La Belle

[Penny T]

[quote="Gelinda"]. That was not a good subject line.

What I am wondering an asking you fellow ladies is. How many of you use false padding in your way of becoming en femme and why.

Because as my FTM friend Drew so succinctly put it,"If you expect the world to treat you as your adopted gender, then you darn well better do everything you can to look the part."

You answered youself with your last line:

How real are real ladies.[/quote]

Breastforms weren't invented for CD'ers. Neither were girdles, cinchers, corsets, nor padded panties*. These were all originally intended for use by GG's to enhance their appearance, and they still buy more of this stuff than CD'ers do(with the expeption of breastforms). So we're as real as real women when we use shape enhancers.

*Note that there are specially designed garments for TG's such as the Veronica that I don't imagine many GG's use, yet some actually might!

Penny T.

[Anita]

Hi Gelinda--
This question has certainly hammered at me, and I can see that everyone that posted here has done some thinking/experimenting about it.

When I first went out, I wanted to look as feminine as I could, so I used padding, eye tape, makeup, and on and on. I guess the look I was sporting was very feminine, and not very real at the same time. So I looked gorgeous, maybe, but I was also easier to read.

Even at that time, I begin to figure that I didn't need quite so much makeup, and maybe pants were OK, too, and I didn't need to wear heels in the daytime.

Then I grew my hair long enough so I didn't need a wig any more. That was nice, but there went the eye taping that helped me pass--no wig cap, no tape.

So at the moment, I go out with minimal makeup, real hair, and small A+ or B- forms. No padding anywhere else. It's a fine line to walk, because I need enough female visuals so that no one has to "guess" my gender.
They may even know I'm a CD, but I want it to be apparent that I expect to be treated as a woman, because that's how I'm dressed--even if it's simply dressed.

I wear big earrings, and a necklace, usually. I also find that I need to wear shoes that are clearly women's shoes.

I'm not saying I pass all the time, but people still treat me as a woman, so that's all I'm lookng for. But sometimes I know I'm pushing it too far, being too androgynous, and people start getting the wrong pronouns and look confused. That's not me; I'm not after androgyny.

So it's a balancing act. If I look and feel glamorous, I may enjoy myself, but I'm seen as CD. If I look more "real," I'm not going to be as attractive, because I need that padding and all that extra disguise.

Good posts, by the way!
Anita

[Danielle La Belle]

Sometimes I just need to say something.

Go to your local mall and find a nice place to sit and “people watch” for one hour. It helps to bring along a small notebook and writing instrument for this assignment girls.

Make it simple and keep it that way. Make two columns. The left column reflects everyday women. The right column reflects women that are dressed for success.

I know, girls, before you get your panties in a bunch, there are an unlimited number of possibilities for this but let’s just stick to this script for now.

You can use the letter O, for overweight, by appearance, and the letter X, for acceptable.
You can use the letter D, for everyday wear, and the letter P, for office wear.
After an hour, tally up your totals.

There is no doubt that no matter what day you pick, during the regular Mall hours of 11:00am – 7:00pm, you should see an average crowd of people representing the normal population differential for your area.

What do I see? I see 60% of those represented in both categories as overweight. I see, 80% of the women in the combination of both categories as casual dress even if it is acceptable for the office.

So, apparently some of us have a distorted view of what it means to be a woman. After all, we are brought into the world naked and we end up using clothing to both protect us from the elements and to make a display of our beliefs about ourselves.

I am over simplifying this to keep from writing a “tome” of information about it. I think that women today have low self-esteem and they have mistaken the concept of casual dress which has become less than becoming on most women. This is not about what other people think as much as it tends to represent what we believe is how a another person must feel about themselves and this could be completely wrong at times.

Anita did a really good job of explaining what it is to dress like a woman. Once you can get over the hurdle of what a woman should dress and act and talk like, you can redefine yourself into a formulae that you are comfortable with. Of course, providing that you are not sporting a full beard and mustache, ha ha LOL. The “bearded lady” will always draw unwanted attention no matter where you go, All cultures have a basic set of social rules that they go by, and therefore, it would be expected that this sort of oddity would attract unwanted attention just about anywhere.

I like Anita’s style of written delivery, because it sounds like it was written by a woman (gg). Secure in the knowledge that she only uses what is necessary to acquire a presence that she is comfortable with. I like that idea!

Least I forget, what makes men and women whom they are is not their clothing nor is it their genitalia, rather, it is clearly, their mental wiring and the postion of their neurons that defines which side of the fence they ride on. Clothing is a mere outcome of the two different sexes and the social rules that have developed over eons of time in as many cultures.

Hugs

Danielle Marie La Belle

[Bernice]

Breastforms weren't invented for CD'ers. Neither were girdles, cinchers, corsets, nor padded panties*. These were all originally intended for use by GG's to enhance their appearance, and they still buy more of this stuff than CD'ers do(with the expeption of breastforms). So we're as real as real women when we use shape enhancers.

*Note that there are specially designed garments for TG's such as the Veronica that I don't imagine many GG's use, yet some actually might!

Penny T.

My response may seem off-topic, and if enough of you so indicate, it is fine to move it to a separate thread. I have been thinking of posting a thread myself anyway, but this one seems remarkably close, so here goes:

I do not know any F2M transexuals, nor any GGs who actually prefer to be accepted as male, however much they may routinely dress as mostly male. However, I question in my own mind whether or not any of these individuals would ever feel the need to (and this is hard to express in a G = General Audience rated forum) put a "bananna in their pants". I know that some genetic males have sought surgical male implants for a variety of reasons, though I know of no genetic males ever wearing any "padding" down there.

If my point is not clear, it is because I am confused. I've never "read" a female trying to "pass" as a male. This absence of the converse of my character causes me to question whether or not we crossdressers are really on firm ground. Perhaps someone here can clue me in - help eliminate my ignorance.

Is there yet another hidden unspoken supressed minority of genetic females longing to be accepted as male, but kept in the closet - unable to find each other for support - as we have here? If so - I will be suprised.

I use padding wherever needed in order to appear and to feel more feminine, ever since the second or third time, a few decades ago. I never thought about why - until about a year ago. Am I trying to have my cake and eat it too? Is this fair - for me to want to experience the best of both worlds? If I don't want to undergo the surgery - is it fair for me to experience the thrill and the pleasures of the other side of the fence? Should I not have to pay my dues somehow - before I am entitled to do this?

What gives me the right to split the fence and enjoy both sides at will?

Hugs,

Bernice

[Gelinda]

I can tell the tale of a female being caught attempting to work in a male role. In a warehouse in Indianola MS there was a female that was attempting to pass as male. His had taped her little bit of breast down and was tapeing a sausage to her inner thigh to pass. The way she was caught was a box in this warehouse fell and cut her pants in the wrong place. Showing the sausage to the leg. At first it was taught she was stealing. But when she was put on the carpet the facts where reversed on that fact. She worked for two years almost before that time and was allowed to keep her job but had to take a write up and two weeks off without pay for lying on her job application. Gelinda. True story my brother worked with her/him.

[Anita]

Thank you, Danielle, for your observations. One thing that is different for me is that I do dress as Anita for a stage act. So I can be as glamorous and exotic as I want to be there--false eyelashes, showy dresses, high heels, and my long black wig.

If I didn't have that outlet, I'd probably overdress for the mall more often.
Some of us are still trying to live out the teenage years that we didn't have as girls. Being a fifty-year old man when I started dressing didn't mean that I was automatically going to dress like a fifty-year old woman! Nope, I looked more like the girls I saw in high school and college when I was there. It's taken most of that four years of going out to want to dress closer to my real age.

Bernice, I'm confused about a statement you made. You said that you didn't know of any FtoM transsexuals that actually preferred to be accepted as male, even though they routinely dressed male.

Every FtoM I've ever met wants to be accepted as male; that's why they're dressing as they do, and behaving and taking as a man. A butch lesbian might dress as a man, but still want to be seen as a woman. But I don't think an FtoM would want that.

As you say, I don't see many of them at my support group. But the five or six I've meet would all disagree with your statement, if I'm reading it correctly. They want to be perceived as men!

Now, your statement make more sense if you're talking about female crossdressers, and how you don't really see or hear about the female equivalent of what we're doing. I don't either. Lots of ggs wear men's clothes, we all know that. But they are not making a "gender" statement by doing that.

When we dress in women's clothes, however, we ARE making a gender statement, of some kind. We're rocking the boat by doing that.

I've seen maybe one woman post to another forum, and she desired to pose as a man, without wanting to become one. But she's the only one I've ever heard from.

I think it is "fair" to want to experience the other gender, though. I know that sometimes I feel that my three sisters resent my CDing on a deep level. and part of could be that reason. They may feel that I'm "playing" at the best parts of being a woman, for example.

But I feel that I earn it. I pay a price for showing my femme self to the world, and it takes courage to do that. It's not a free ride, by any means.

But sometimes I want to tell my sisters, "If you knew just how wonderful this is for me, you'd REALLY be angry." No one in my family is supposed to have this much fun!
A

[Stef]

Hi Bernice,

One of my closest friends is a FtM TS. I've known him (I say him because that's how I see him) for years before I even really knew myself. If you did not know he was not born male you would never be able to tell, He "enhances" certain parts of his anatomy in order to pass as a male. He also wears loose fitting shirts in order to hide what little breasts he does have. A funny side note to this story, one night another good friend I were talking about how it just didn't seem right to still be calling him by his girl name. We decided to start calling him Ralph after the girl on Green Acres. The name stuck, it wasn't til much later we told Ralph how we came up with his name.

Hugs,
Stef

[Danielle La Belle]

Bernice:

Some people like to go to various sporting events and live vicariously through a favorite player. No, they are not playing at gender role, unless the individual is the opposite sex of the "favorite player." But, hey, we all daydream from time to time.

What are you doing? No one can say but you alone. If you have arrived at the point where this is all one big question, then perhaps, just perhaps, it is time for a change. Do something different. Take up a sport that you can manage or join a group at church or the office. Set aside cding' and just play out the role that you appear to have been born into.

If we as a culture are always "trying" to be women, we are never going to make it past that "trying" time. You either have a feel for this or you do not. It is either part of you or it is not. Take it or leave it. Perhaps it has become more like cocaine, you just cannot get off the merry-go-round. Or perhaps I am just out in left field waiting for the next batter to take a swing!

Life is simple, humans make it complicated!

Hugs

Danielle Marie La Belle

[Virginia]

Well, as I posted earlier and I must say I got "taken to the wood shed" not once but twice by two of our SO's. I will stand my ground. I evidently reached my current station in life with Deborah, faster than some of my sisters good, bad or indifferent. When I dress and look in the mirror, I DO NOT see a guy in a dress, I see a lady! A lady, who when she goes out wants to dress like (her preception) a woman. I know what of Danielle speaks and I refuse to dress like the majority of GG now seem to. My position is that if I am going to be "outted" or as one of our sisters says, "clocked" I guess it will be for "dress code violations" and not physical structure! I will NOt embarrass my sisters by dressing like a "slut" but I will wear nice clothes, tight skirts, respectable heels, my silk blouses, make-up, nice nails and I will smell nice and SMILE! Deborah knows how she likes to look and I make every attempt to meet her desires.
Love ya all,
Deborah

[Bernice]

Thank you Anita, Stef, Danielle and Deborah.

Gelinda: A sad story - from either side of the fence.

Anita: Golly, now at age 50 I really wish I had paid more attention in High School English. My math is good, but my poor communication skills keep coming back to bite me. Please let me rephrase as follows: I do not know any F2M transexuals. I also do not know any GGs who prefer to be accepted as male. Of course I know hundreds of GGs who routinely dress in attire that would be entirely suitable for males in today’s bigoted society. I don’t think any of them wear prosthetic male genitalia. I guess I just never got any SPAM advertising such for sale. I get SPAM for everything else, so I started over-analyzing and wondered why the asymmetry in nature.

Stef: An interesting story - and helpful. So it isn’t just us genetic males who want to temporarily alter their bodies by artificial means? OK then, I’m saving up for silicone! ##oo##

Danielle Marie: Whoa! Not so quick to jump to conclusions, Dr! I had Just One Question. I only sought to better understand. That doesn’t even remotely inspire me to consider a change to my lifelong commitment to continue to enjoy Cding. Those hopeless New Years resolutions from the late 1960s are ancient History! Thanks for trying, but I think it’s time for me to say “Batter-up! Batter-up!” That IS what they say when they want the game to resume, isn’t it? Since I have been to exactly two baseball games in my entire life, and one was a Washington Senators game, What can I say?

Deborah: Me too. I prefer to see a lady when I look in the mirror. True, I’ve come to appreciate full skirts/dresses rather than tight skirts, typically knee –length. I won’t try to walk in public in 3-inch or higher heels at my age, height, and weight. I don’t ever consider myself dressed like a slut either. But blue jeans will never seem sexy, or even attractive – not to me, no matter who is wearing them.

Anyone else? Jump right in – the water’s hot!

Hugs,

Bernice