How do you spot a troll?
-
Alexandra
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1149
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:27 pm
- Location: In Monolith We Trust
-
CJ
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3562
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:12 pm
- Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Hi all,
Okay, Ahzz, I'll chime in. But I'll preface this by saying that I'm very much inexperienced as a moderator--this is my first gig (and it's only a couple of months old, at that). I want to publicly thank Shannon, Sharon, and Beauty, by the way, for entrusting me with this responsibility. But I'll be the first to admit that one of the reasons I only slightly hesitated in accepting it is that the maturity level of the membership here basically allows the forum to run itself, to a certain extent. You good folks are an awesome bunch of people, and I'm truly glad to be counted among your number.
Now, as to trolls, I, for one, don't make any special effort to keep an eye out for them. I don't operate any kind of "troll radar," if you wish. I try to let people be who they are, insofar as this does no damage to another person, and as long as the expression of their views remains pretty much within the forum's stated guidelines. Again, I will admit to having occasionally failed in this (in that, my lack of, shall we say, objectivity, has made some angry) but, then again, I'm as human as the next person. We really don't live in a perfect world.
Having said this, if and when I do spot a storm brewing, I usually go the private route and get in touch with the principal parties, just to rule out any possible miscommunications or faulty interpretations that may have led to the tension in question. Sometimes, it's amazing how much just a little bit of well-rounded talk can dispell bad vibes. It's such a difficult thing, sometimes, to get a clear understanding of what someone was actually trying to say when you don't have access to that person's face or eyes or body language. Only once I started to hang out online, almost a year ago, did I come to realize how much I depended on that kind of input. In the absence of such input, I give everyone, every single person, the benefit of the doubt when I sense an increase in the kind of tension that, in many other forums out there, can be the hallmark of a troll's presence. It can be, but not necessarily--we are all unique, we have our own ways of being in the world, our own opinions, our own views; the shape of our own experience is, it goes without saying, different from that of our neighbour's. So, though we try to remain civil in our discussions, clashes are to be expected. And those aren't bad, per se. Discovering the limits of another person always stands to teach us much about our own. It's when the atmosphere turns dark, when communication breaks down, when the focus shifts from being critical of a view to being critical of a person, that a flag pops up, for me. The flag gets raised higher when that criticism is laced with vitriol. Still, even then, that doesn't mean I believe we're dealing with a troll. When people feel hurt, they'll often lash out in anger (God knows, I've done this myself); that doesn't mean they're intentionally malicious, as trolls are wont to be. A troll, to me, is someone who gleefully lobs a flash grenade in the crowded garden of a sanatorium and then sits back to watch the fun, often from behind the hedges. (This is what Ahzz is referring to, I think, when he talks about "attitude.") This has rarely happened here, especially if I look at what goes on on other forums. And I'm very thankful for that.
So, I see my own role here as, well, as an enabler of sorts, both on stage and behind the scenes, one that will see to it that the atmosphere on the forum is healthy enough that the people who come here, and those who stay, feel that they can not only be allowed to be who they are but that they actively be encouraged to do so. This is what the forum's for. And, well, if I'm not always up to this task, I hope you all understand that has more to do with my own inexperience than it does with any failing on the part of the administrators.
In a more concrete vein, I do rely on both members as well as on administrators to point out to me what may or may not be a potential "trouble spot." Again, though, even this has rarely happened, given the convivial nature of the board. If I could, I'd be knocking on wood, right now. Many months ago, Alexandra, as she said above, predicted that we'd soon enough be dealing with disruptful individuals. Well, we haven't. Yet. Now, Ahzz (thanks for the tips, by the way!
) is predicting the same thing for the future. Hopefully, I'll have occasion to be knocking on wood a year hence. Sorry, Ahzz! 
An aside: I truly hope no feathers were unduly ruffled here. Beauty's instincts, when she first moved to lock this thread, were sound. It is a touchy subject, precisely because of some of the reactions we've seen. I'm glad she relented, though. Because trolls, like viruses, or hackers, or rampant pornography, are very much a part of online reality and it serves nobody to sweep the subject under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist. I just beg you all to see that Ahzz is not pointing any fingers here, however much you may feel uncomfortable with the realization that some of the behaviours he describes may apply to you (as I said above, I feel some apply, or have applied, to me). His intent is to provide a useful "heads-up." And I'm grateful that he's willing to share the fruits of his extensive online experience with us.
Anyway, as usual, I've rambled on.
I wish you all peace, joy, and a great week!
Love,
CJ
Okay, Ahzz, I'll chime in.
But I'll preface this by saying that I'm very much inexperienced as a moderator--this is my first gig (and it's only a couple of months old, at that). I want to publicly thank Shannon, Sharon, and Beauty, by the way, for entrusting me with this responsibility. But I'll be the first to admit that one of the reasons I only slightly hesitated in accepting it is that the maturity level of the membership here basically allows the forum to run itself, to a certain extent. You good folks are an awesome bunch of people, and I'm truly glad to be counted among your number.Now, as to trolls, I, for one, don't make any special effort to keep an eye out for them. I don't operate any kind of "troll radar," if you wish. I try to let people be who they are, insofar as this does no damage to another person, and as long as the expression of their views remains pretty much within the forum's stated guidelines. Again, I will admit to having occasionally failed in this (in that, my lack of, shall we say, objectivity, has made some angry) but, then again, I'm as human as the next person. We really don't live in a perfect world.
Having said this, if and when I do spot a storm brewing, I usually go the private route and get in touch with the principal parties, just to rule out any possible miscommunications or faulty interpretations that may have led to the tension in question. Sometimes, it's amazing how much just a little bit of well-rounded talk can dispell bad vibes. It's such a difficult thing, sometimes, to get a clear understanding of what someone was actually trying to say when you don't have access to that person's face or eyes or body language. Only once I started to hang out online, almost a year ago, did I come to realize how much I depended on that kind of input. In the absence of such input, I give everyone, every single person, the benefit of the doubt when I sense an increase in the kind of tension that, in many other forums out there, can be the hallmark of a troll's presence. It can be, but not necessarily--we are all unique, we have our own ways of being in the world, our own opinions, our own views; the shape of our own experience is, it goes without saying, different from that of our neighbour's. So, though we try to remain civil in our discussions, clashes are to be expected. And those aren't bad, per se. Discovering the limits of another person always stands to teach us much about our own. It's when the atmosphere turns dark, when communication breaks down, when the focus shifts from being critical of a view to being critical of a person, that a flag pops up, for me. The flag gets raised higher when that criticism is laced with vitriol. Still, even then, that doesn't mean I believe we're dealing with a troll. When people feel hurt, they'll often lash out in anger (God knows, I've done this myself); that doesn't mean they're intentionally malicious, as trolls are wont to be. A troll, to me, is someone who gleefully lobs a flash grenade in the crowded garden of a sanatorium and then sits back to watch the fun, often from behind the hedges. (This is what Ahzz is referring to, I think, when he talks about "attitude.") This has rarely happened here, especially if I look at what goes on on other forums. And I'm very thankful for that.
So, I see my own role here as, well, as an enabler of sorts, both on stage and behind the scenes, one that will see to it that the atmosphere on the forum is healthy enough that the people who come here, and those who stay, feel that they can not only be allowed to be who they are but that they actively be encouraged to do so. This is what the forum's for. And, well, if I'm not always up to this task, I hope you all understand that has more to do with my own inexperience than it does with any failing on the part of the administrators.
In a more concrete vein, I do rely on both members as well as on administrators to point out to me what may or may not be a potential "trouble spot." Again, though, even this has rarely happened, given the convivial nature of the board. If I could, I'd be knocking on wood, right now. Many months ago, Alexandra, as she said above, predicted that we'd soon enough be dealing with disruptful individuals. Well, we haven't. Yet. Now, Ahzz (thanks for the tips, by the way!
) is predicting the same thing for the future. Hopefully, I'll have occasion to be knocking on wood a year hence. Sorry, Ahzz! An aside: I truly hope no feathers were unduly ruffled here. Beauty's instincts, when she first moved to lock this thread, were sound. It is a touchy subject, precisely because of some of the reactions we've seen. I'm glad she relented, though. Because trolls, like viruses, or hackers, or rampant pornography, are very much a part of online reality and it serves nobody to sweep the subject under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist. I just beg you all to see that Ahzz is not pointing any fingers here, however much you may feel uncomfortable with the realization that some of the behaviours he describes may apply to you (as I said above, I feel some apply, or have applied, to me). His intent is to provide a useful "heads-up." And I'm grateful that he's willing to share the fruits of his extensive online experience with us.
Anyway, as usual, I've rambled on.
I wish you all peace, joy, and a great week!
Love,
CJ
-
Elizabeth
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1878
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 3:02 am
Hi girls,
You gonna try to fool a group of people who have been crossdressing all thier lives? Without first hand knowledge of what it is to be a crossdresser, I think it would be hard to pretend to be one. I am sure there are those that can. But then to have to be nice to others, and to be polite? Because any flame is going to be immediately extinguised.
I think that what CJ says is correct, it is this awesome bunch of girls that come here that make it special, and I really don't see any way to break these bonds of love. Love nulifies hate in a way that a ban just can not do.
Try this the next time you are in a bad mood. Put a smile on your face, and keep it there. It is impossible to stay in a bad mood. You brain connects the smile on your face to you being happy. I forgot where I learned this trick, but it works every time. I think coming here has the same affect on trolls. The love here changes thier mood.
And that is this girls opinion.
Love always,
Elizabeth
I think this is the key to why this place is so troll free. The members just won't allow it. The nature of this place is so loving, that it just can not be tolerated. I am sure that many trolls have come and looked at the posts, but seeing the love that pours out of this place can't find a way to get into a conversation.CJ wrote:
But I'll be the first to admit that one of the reasons I only slightly hesitated in accepting it is that the maturity level of the membership here basically allows the forum to run itself, to a certain extent. You good folks are an awesome bunch of people, and I'm truly glad to be counted among your number.
You gonna try to fool a group of people who have been crossdressing all thier lives? Without first hand knowledge of what it is to be a crossdresser, I think it would be hard to pretend to be one. I am sure there are those that can. But then to have to be nice to others, and to be polite? Because any flame is going to be immediately extinguised.
I think that what CJ says is correct, it is this awesome bunch of girls that come here that make it special, and I really don't see any way to break these bonds of love. Love nulifies hate in a way that a ban just can not do.
Try this the next time you are in a bad mood. Put a smile on your face, and keep it there. It is impossible to stay in a bad mood. You brain connects the smile on your face to you being happy. I forgot where I learned this trick, but it works every time. I think coming here has the same affect on trolls. The love here changes thier mood.
And that is this girls opinion.
Love always,
Elizabeth
-
Ahzz
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:53 am
Excelnt response yet again cj and elizabeth.
You are right in that it's both the members AND the administrative staff that leads to a troll free environment. That was the entire area I was trying to head towards. But as with any topic that most people just take for granted (aparantly not THIS board! Most of yall already knew a lot!
) , as a past admin of many areas, I wanted to make certain that everyone here had a open talk about trolls and were on teh same page insofar as how this board handlees trolls. Which btw, aparantly has been and probably will be very effective. To that end, kudos to everyone.
Cj touched on the stealth troll in her post when she mentioned the toss a flash-bang and watch from the sidelines. The stealth troll's primary weapon is the injection of what seems to be an innocent statement that is actually intended to touch a flame to a sensitive area, and thus sparking a flame war amongst the normal members. This is the only kind of troll that I really forsee as being a potential threat. But, as CJ said, fortunatly this forum is packed with inteligent people that are sensitive to each other's sore spots and carry respect for each other.
As far as "keeping an eye out", it's not something that has to be active IMO. It's moreso a mode of replying to posts that not only helps prevent a troll from tossing that flash-bang, but also helps keep ourselves from biting into a reply that irritates us on a bad day (which I am guilty of in recent months here).
It is my hope that by becoming aware of these tactics, it will help bolster our maturity when it eventually does happen and allow us to ignore the baiting that can be missed in a heated discussion. Additionally, these same methods of stepping back and just watching instead of jumping will bolster our maturity in accepting other's conflicting viewpoints.
And lastly, may I point out that even CJ was touched by a few items, and as she said, while they may apply to her, or me, or anyone else, it's not a "for certain" indicator. It's only a hot spot that is best dealt with by putting our hands in our laps, taking a deep breath, and waiting to answer. Noone is perfect. Heck, *I* fell into the trap of lashing out myself recently and regretted it. 8-P What I did wrong afterwords was to not apologise to the forum for my napalm.
I can't think of anything else to say at this time. Things have been hashed pretty well so far. so let me say in parting....
HAPPY POSTING!
Kudos to everyone here for their maturity and sensitivity!
You are right in that it's both the members AND the administrative staff that leads to a troll free environment. That was the entire area I was trying to head towards. But as with any topic that most people just take for granted (aparantly not THIS board! Most of yall already knew a lot!
) , as a past admin of many areas, I wanted to make certain that everyone here had a open talk about trolls and were on teh same page insofar as how this board handlees trolls. Which btw, aparantly has been and probably will be very effective. To that end, kudos to everyone. Cj touched on the stealth troll in her post when she mentioned the toss a flash-bang and watch from the sidelines. The stealth troll's primary weapon is the injection of what seems to be an innocent statement that is actually intended to touch a flame to a sensitive area, and thus sparking a flame war amongst the normal members. This is the only kind of troll that I really forsee as being a potential threat. But, as CJ said, fortunatly this forum is packed with inteligent people that are sensitive to each other's sore spots and carry respect for each other.
As far as "keeping an eye out", it's not something that has to be active IMO. It's moreso a mode of replying to posts that not only helps prevent a troll from tossing that flash-bang, but also helps keep ourselves from biting into a reply that irritates us on a bad day (which I am guilty of in recent months here).
It is my hope that by becoming aware of these tactics, it will help bolster our maturity when it eventually does happen and allow us to ignore the baiting that can be missed in a heated discussion. Additionally, these same methods of stepping back and just watching instead of jumping will bolster our maturity in accepting other's conflicting viewpoints.
And lastly, may I point out that even CJ was touched by a few items, and as she said, while they may apply to her, or me, or anyone else, it's not a "for certain" indicator. It's only a hot spot that is best dealt with by putting our hands in our laps, taking a deep breath, and waiting to answer. Noone is perfect. Heck, *I* fell into the trap of lashing out myself recently and regretted it. 8-P What I did wrong afterwords was to not apologise to the forum for my napalm.
I can't think of anything else to say at this time. Things have been hashed pretty well so far. so let me say in parting....
HAPPY POSTING!
Kudos to everyone here for their maturity and sensitivity!
Sig? What sig?
OH! THIS Sig!
OH! THIS Sig!
-
Beauty
- Retired Site Administrator
- Posts: 3662
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:30 am
- Location: Northern VA
- Contact:
-
Gaven McLaren
- Miss Golden Goddess
- Posts: 697
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:29 am
- Location: San Ramon, CA
- Contact:
Having now read 3 pages of posts on this topic I am going to chime in. Being a former member of another forum which will remain nameless (though I think most of our orginal members come from there) was perticularly infested by one or two trolls. We have to be vary carefull as even though tis is a discussion on trolls it can become a "Witchhunt" as was mentioned by earlier in the post. I FEEL (in caps for emphasis) that we have remained troll free because we try to keep topics that can cause a flamewar 
very low. When there is atopic like that Beauty generally chimes in an either locks it until there is an explenation in private about the topic.
very low. When there is atopic like that Beauty generally chimes in an either locks it until there is an explenation in private about the topic.Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons. As you are crunchy and good with chocolate!
-
Aislin
- Miss Sapphire Goddess
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:23 pm
- Location: SW Idaho
Gaven McLaren: Thank you for expressing that which appeared to be missing. The "Witch Hunt" variable bothers me.
In another forum under another name I was accused of being a troll. I thought my questions were designed to get poeple to think. Unfortunetly (?) they had the opposite effect. They led to my being bared from further correspondence and reading of any posts. (That's enough about that.)
At the begginning of the thread I could feel the bile rising in my throat, thinking " Oh Lord here we go again.". I read the disclaimer and the response , deciding to read the rest of the pages before adding my 2 Cents.
This site does not encourage "trolls". After reading 20 posts and threads at random, before I joined, the honesty was self evident. People bare their souls in the new member, and how did you start section, telling things they have never stated to anyone before. You cannot have the kind of honesty and comfortability in a site without it being genuine, trust simply will not exist without it.
To Beauty and the Admins(sounds like a Geek Rock band): Ladies you have done an excellent job, steering and nudging where appropriate.
In another forum under another name I was accused of being a troll. I thought my questions were designed to get poeple to think. Unfortunetly (?) they had the opposite effect. They led to my being bared from further correspondence and reading of any posts. (That's enough about that.)
At the begginning of the thread I could feel the bile rising in my throat, thinking " Oh Lord here we go again.". I read the disclaimer and the response , deciding to read the rest of the pages before adding my 2 Cents.
This site does not encourage "trolls". After reading 20 posts and threads at random, before I joined, the honesty was self evident. People bare their souls in the new member, and how did you start section, telling things they have never stated to anyone before. You cannot have the kind of honesty and comfortability in a site without it being genuine, trust simply will not exist without it.
To Beauty and the Admins(sounds like a Geek Rock band): Ladies you have done an excellent job, steering and nudging where appropriate.
Aislin
What started as a dream has become a reality.
Above all no regrets.
What started as a dream has become a reality.
Above all no regrets.