Taking a stand against the Boy Scouts.

[Alexandra]

For the record, I am a former boy scout . I reached as high as "star" level. Since that time I've discovered that the Boy Scouts are pretty much rooted in religion so I've disassociated myself from them, no longer agreeing with what they're about, however, I never made a big deal about them.

However, once they decided to openly discriminate against gay partipicants (and I'm pretty much sure CDing scoutmasters is a big No-No too), I've become active in educating the public. The courts have ruled that they CAN discriminate because they are a private organization. But has a result, they have lost funding from many sources (United Way, for one).

Today, much to my amazement, I found a large NW chain retailer partipicating with the Boy Scouts in a fund raising gig in front of the store -- you couldn't enter the store without squeezing through there.

My kid was with me and we've had talks about why we don't "support" the boy scouts previously. She was with me today.

Anyway, I went in to the store and quickly found the manager and asked her if she knew they were a discriminatory organization and why should I spend my money at her store -- a store I drove 15 miles to shop at? Her jaw dropped to the floor and she was speechless. Huh? well, anyway, I helped her out and told her not to take it personally and just pass along my comments to her store director.

Kinda surprising other people aren't raising a ruckus or they have other priorities (like the one in the white house).

[Eloise Goth]

for an organisation first set up by a well known gay pedophile-Bayden Powell- to discriminate against gay people is a bit rich...

[Lorna]

Good for you, Alexandra! I'm glad you brought that to the store's attention.

[Ahzz]

I've known for a long time and in fact it is part of why I walked away from the Boy Scouts as an early teenager. It always made me highly uncomfortable that they blended christiantiy throughout all fo their rituals and teachings.

I spoke with my weebelo (sp?) scoutmaster about it and his reaction was one of utter disbelief that someone could NOT be attached to god and yet still be a moral person who would always do the right thing. To him it was as if I had admitted to being a follower of satan. 8-P (probably exagerating here).

He asked me how I could believe in what the scouts stood for in honor and duty when I didn't follow in gods footsteps. 8-P Of course I promptly replied that honor and duty to society is a thing of man, not just of christians. That being a good person is NOT tied to worship in the least bit. It's merely a way of behavior in doing The RIght Thing at all times.

His reply? You can't be morally responsible unless you worship god. 8-P Wouldn't even listen to anything that I had to say. (I was 14? at the time) Which of course, he was right then violating his own guidelines of respecting others ability to think.

So I walked and I haven't supported it at all since.

There was also a family of arab imigrants that tried sent their 9 year old into the group. The poor kid was constantly barraged with personal attention from the scout leaders and the chosen scouts that were "shining examples of scouts". 8-P More than once the kid went home looking VERY upset. Of course noone else was ever close enough to hear what they were telling him. 8-P

After a couple months of this he never returned. Normally the leaders would be interested in getting the child back into the group, but not this one. It was if they didn't care. 8-P I'm assuming here of course that they took issue with his being islamic. At the time (and still now) I couldn't think of what else it could be. The kid NEVER picked on anyone else, was always willing to help other kids with their lessons in knives, camping, etc.

I have heard that lately they have been teaching tolerance of others and of a few non-christians that are happy as scouts. So maybe they have started changing. I certainly hope so. Too much of what a scout truly is at the core is invaluable to kids growing up into being responsible, and moral, adults. Self responsibility, community responsibility, honor, truthfullness, etc. All of these would go far to making our world a much better place. I just wish it wasn't so heavilly tied into the christian ways. 8-P

[Carolynn]

Hi Ahzz!!!

AMEN?

[Mellissa]

Well never was in the boyscouts so i dont have any experience in this matter
I was prolly to busy playing with the barbie dolls from the girkl next door


Mellissa

[CJ]

Hi all,

Well, I was in the Boy Scouts, too, for about three years or so. Not sure about the English terms, here, but I was a "chef de patrouille" (patrol leader?) for two of those three years. My totem? "Agile Bear" (don't laugh! )

Anyway, my experience seems to have been a bit different than that of the others who've posted here. As far as I can recall, religion never really played a part in the whole proceedings; it was a very secular affair. Our troop leader was a very gentle, encouraging, and friendly Arab man. I think he was a Lebanese Christian, but he never really spoke of his private life, so I'm not sure.

Maybe the fact that the province of Quebec had just then engaged itself on the road to secularization (both the government as well as citizens in general were in the process of throwing the weight of the Catholic Church off their backs--a feat that became part of what's known here as "The Quiet Revolution") had a lot to do with the Scouts not emphasizing the link between morality and religion.

At any rate, I really enjoyed my time there. There was nary a dull moment. (Okay, I could've done without all the bland singing, maybe. )

I find it unfortunate that their discriminatory attitudes seem to negate whatever goodwill they're trying to foster in the world. I'll be curious to see where this will go. I have to say, Alexandra, this is something I really admire about you; you're not afraid to sound off on the issues that matter to you. I get the feeling you haven't yet met a single sacred cow in your life! That's cool!

Love,
CJ

[Carolynn]

Hi all!!

CJ, I suspect that you were seeing a difference in time and in location. In the South of the US, the Scouts have always been associated with Christanity, and attending Church was one of the duties of a good scout. During my short stint in the small town Bible Belt scouts, I did see an impetus toward religious feeling as the proper framework for being "loyal, trustworthy and brave", but as I said, this was in the Bible Belt of the South. Meetings were held at the First Baptist Church. The preacher was a "helper". What does that tell ya'? I was in scouts due to pressure from the male parental unit who felt it would help me learn to "fit in" with the rest of the boys. If he had not attended as a "helper", I would have skipped out on it.

The only things of note that happened was that I finally achieved Tenderfoot status. Oh yeah, and on a short camp out, while playing Capture the Flag in the dark, the twelve of us decided to jog the short 6 miles back to town for a hamburger from the local hangout-- without bothering to tell our scoutmaster. Of course, we didn't know he was so fragile and near a nervous breakdown. We didn't know he would assume that because we didn't come to camp to capture the flag, we had become victims of the local quicksand of the poorly watered river we were camped on, and he was responsible. We didn't know he would call out the fire department, the county sherrif, and local law on his radio, to search for our bodies. After all, we were taking him back a burger and fries too! What was the big deal?

He had to go away for a while, (I felt kinda bad about that, as he was an OK person for the most part), and they never did find anyone else to take on the job of scoutmaster after that, much to my satisfaction. I found it too regimented with all the flag saluting and reciting the Lord's Prayer at the beginning and end of the meeting. The small amount of trouble we got into for the above stunt was, in my estimation, worth the price of admission, except for poor old Gary (the scoutmaster -- but we didn't know, ya' know?).

I think they had a troop for a short while between 1960 and 1964, before it was allowed to lapse due to lack of interest. There was just too much competition from football and Agriculture and 4H, I guess.

[Alexandra]

CJ, thanks for the nice comments.

Carolynn, I didn't know then, but found out later that both scoutmasters were part time pastors -- they were both teachers at the school I went to.

[Jessie]

Living in the NW I too went scouts why I do not know but when I was there it was more about surving the outdoors as such. My father was the scout master (and an Eagle Scout from NY) for my troop so I had to attend but I never went farther than weblow (sp?). I did not feel to christan religious but being Jewish I never really saw that part. I do remeber that one of fellow weblow (sp?) father was in charge or a member of our local airforce base where we have a top wilderness survival school so we spent a weekend on those grounds learning how to filter water start a fire with out matches and that is what I rememmber of scouts.

Jessie

[DonnaT]

I was in the scouts in WV. Religion was never preached to us. Of course there were services at camp, but that was the only time.

I was a cub scout leader for a while, and never got into religion with the kids. Nor were the handbooks promoting religion.

We were into crafts, survival skills, map reading, fishing, boating, etc.

So, IMHO it seems that there are indiviidual leaders that are so religious that they have to preach Christianity to the kids. We find these people in all walks of life.

And yes, the gay issue is a tragedy as well. They seem to close their minds based on morality based on the bible. The very same bible that suggests that we not judge one another, but let God handle the judging come judgement day.

Note that the governmant has many of the same moral issues.

It's a shame that they have turned a number of fine citizans against the scouts.

I will not support them monetarily, but will still teach kids skills I've learned, since it is not the kids that established their discrimitory practices.

[Kerri]

Well, I'm only joking about the skirts, but they do wear kilts.
I was a Boy Scout in Aberdeen, Scotland.
I thoroughly enjoyed it. We did climbing, camping, white water canoeing, survival training and crafts. Religion never got a mention, nor was there any discrimination against gays.
But I suspect that the people who pushed their religion in the way you talk about would quote the bible when discriminating against gays.

Kerry

[Carolynn]

Hi!!!

Talked to a friend in Virginia today, Roanoke to be exact, and he is a scout leader and his son (a school senior) is an advanced scout. He told me that they do not have any preachers in their part of the organization, do not push religion (only place God is mentioned is in the Pledge of Allegience which they do recite), and have number of troop members that are not Christian (Jewish and two Moslem). They concentrate on wilderness skills and community service in their activities. They also work with the local zoo, mainly in cleaning up the place and help with repairs that require strong young backs to lift that bail and tote that barge. He said he couldn't speak for all troops in the state, but thats the way theirs is.

Could be we should take a page from our own book and not paint everybody with the same broad strokes from the same pail, huh?

[CJ]

Hi all,

Carolynn wrote: Could be we should take a page from our own book and not paint everybody with the same broad strokes from the same pail, huh?

I totally agree. Still, I think the deciding factor will depend on what the official stance of the Scouts of America's top brass actually is on this issue. I have no clue. (Then again, I still can't tie a slipknot to save my life either! So there! )

Love,
CJ

[Carolynn]

Oh CJ, Slipknots are easy, comedy is hard!!!!