Passion of christ

[Kersten Lee]

Hi Mellissa,

I think it is great you are from Holland. I have led a very sheltered life in middle America farm country. I enjoy and thrive so much hearing all the various experiences and opinions outside my tiny circle. I would like to hear sometime about attitudes on cross-dressing in Holland. Do you enjoy wide acceptance and tolerance?

By the way my wife went with a friend to see Passion. She thought it was great movie making. It brought a story to life with great realism, she said.
She said it was a lot like war and private Ryan. I think someone else said that too.

I have lived in a super conservative right wing evangelical area. I'm sorry that I still go off about intolerance towards others. It's probably been my pet peeve this last 9 months or so. And no I don't think or feel that you are intolerant. I have tended to rant lately partially because of my personal contact with intolerant bigots, sexists, and Christians in my day to day life.

I hope you haven't given up on me if I was a bit strident. I look forward to many more of your posts.

Take Care,
Kersten

[Mellissa]

Dear Kersten ,

I didnt take it personaly and my comments arent ment to be personal either
I just had some realy bad experiances with people of the "Faith"
Got some serious hate mail from cristians and muslim after posting on another forum so i tend to be very defencive towards myself
It took mee about 20 years to learn to accept myself the way i am and then some nobody's come an tell me i'm trash, scum of the earth and that i will burn in hell and all that stuff
So i dont have a big heart towards religion they supposed to be very open towards all people at least thats wath they preach but havent noticed it
But thats why i like it in here I can be me in here you all accepted me as i am and that made me feel accepted and good
so dont worry ill be posting a lot more
And Kersten here in holland most peole are also very narrow minded towards crossdressers,gays and other so it the same here

And about Micheal Moore hate to say it but Bush is gonna win the election
and i dont think Kerry is the one to replace Bush he's to soft i think
in this time people want a leader that doesnt buckle under pressure
so i guess Bush will be there for 4 more years and i dont think Moore is able to change that (but thats what i think watching the news )

Mellissa

[Kersten Lee]

Mellissa,

That was such a lovely note. I am sorry to hear people are the same there also. Maybe the world is the same all over. I keep wanting to believe that there is a majority some where that wonderful people like us are loved and appreciated for our fine qualities.

I am 51 and only started accepting the wonderful person I am two years ago. I suffered from depression and self hate most of my life. I struck gold in a woman therapist that has helped me to accept, appreciate, enjoy and be proud of who I am. Believe me, this was purely accidental that things worked out so well. There has been heated debates over the value of therapists here also. I have come to believe like everything else, there are good therapists and bad therapists. And for some people therapy may not even be a good idea.

My wife struggled with my cross-dressing for 27 years. She has finally accepted that it is a good part of who I am. Partly too, because I am much happier these days.

You may be right about Bush. I felt Kerry could have the election for the taking. Kerry has not presented his positions in a believeable way to the public. I dislike Bush's direction so much. I think another four years could damage our freedoms. It goes to his belief like so many others that he knows what God wants him to do. For example a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. So many fear what gays are doing to the morals in the country. No one yet has told me what these terrible issues are that damage straight people so much. Straight men and women contribute to a 50% divorce rate and the damage it does to so many children in their ability to grow and understand what a good relationship even is. I'm not against divorce. More understanding and love are what we all need.

All the girls here also have helped me in my struggles inspite of some differences in point of view. Open communication and acceptance of our differences is what makes you and everyone else the most important to me. All of you give me hope in our futures on earth.

Thank you again for such a kind note. I am so glad we are good. Please don't ever hesitate to disaggree with me. I starve for opinions. It gives my soul food to grow and change. Differences are what make us great.
If there was only one style and color hi-heel sandal, I think I would die.

Kisses and hugs,
Kersten

[Marda]

I saw you all in the movie

/Marda

[CJ]

Hi all,

I've yet to see the movie. I admire Mel Gibson for not being afraid to use whatever resources at his disposal to share his Catholic beliefs with the world. If he can make a good film while he's at it, all the better.

Traditionally, the Romans merely tied a convict's wrists to the transverse beam of the cross; they didn't nail them. The intent was to let them die of exposure (which usually took about three days). Many hundreds of people were crucified in that era. It was a common practice, and it was usually bloodless.

I've always enjoyed religious movies, too--especially those that show us life in the times of a particular religion's founder. There are a few good ones out there. The Ten Commandments, with Charlton Heston, for Judaism; any number of films (including The Last Temptation of Christ--another highly personal interpretation), for Christianity; Little Buddha, for Buddhism (if you can stomach Keanu Reeves in the lead role); Peter Brooks' Mahabharata (basically, filmed theater) and Attenborough's Gandhi, for Hinduism. I'm still waiting for interesting movies that will showcase the lives of Kung-fu-tse (Confucius, for us latin types), and Lao-tse ("founder" of Taoism--although he'd find the thought of his founding a religion somewhat repugnant). Unfortunately, we'll never see a film on the founding of Islam; Islamic religious law and practice forbid the visual depiction of the sacred (whether of Allah--God--or of the Prophet Muhammed).

For those of you that have enjoyed what Jostein Gaarder's Sophie's World did for your understanding of Western Philosophy, you may want to get a hold of Theo's Odyssey, by Catherine Clement. Through the journeys of a young boy, we get to discover the meaning of many of the world's main religions. Very entertaining and, dare I say it? enlightening.

Love,
CJ

[Marda]

It's my understanding that Christianity does not automatically equal Catholic ... personally I am proud to declare myself a Christian, and *Not Catholic* ... *Not that there's anything wrong with Catholicism* ...

I am moved by Mel's (if he's a confessed "Catholic", that's *his* problem ... funny thing, the last three letters of the word "Catholic" are the same as in the english word "Alcoholic") portrayal of a familiar story depicting man's relentless inhumanity to fellow man; as motivated by human conditions such as "Fear" and "Greed" ...

interestingly, Mel saved a lot of money by not hiring Hollywood to a create a plot ... and a rather "gripping" one at that !
~

In supplement to CJ's points, it's also my understanding that death by crucifixion involved asphyxiation ...

the brutal part of this method of execution matters not on whether appendages are tied or nailed ... the reality is about suffocation and how the human body "instinctively" resists "breathlessness" ...

the weakened, human body, hands tied up and out, slumping on a cross eventually runs out of oxygen and the "breath reflex" motivates the body to struggle for oxygen ...

eventually, and as CJ mentions, often without overt bleeding, the body exhausts itself of "breathtaking" strength (the act of pulling oneself up and straight enough to physically allow the muscles and diaphragm enough movement to breathe reflexively)

it's also my understanding that there is documentation of the Roman's eventual abandonment of this form of execution on the grounds of "unreasonable brutality" or messages to that effect ...


/Marda

[CJ]

Hi all,

Good point, Marda. There was asphyxiation involved. It was a pretty ugly and barbaric practice.

The word "catholic," in its first sense, means "universal" and the Church used it to signify the universal scope of Christ's life and message. Of course, the Catholic Church being the Catholic Church, it soon came to mean that it was an interpretation of Christianity that was meant to apply to all people everywhere. Yeah, the Church would think that.

Catholicism is one of the older branches on the Christian tree. In the tenth century, it split and the Orthodox Church was born. In the sixteenth century, Luther's grievances against a corrupt Catholic Church led to the birth of the Protestant Church (and its several denominations). There's been a significant effort, over the last forty years or so, to get these various branches (of the same tree) to dialogue and come to some mutual understanding, for the sake of religious and spiritual unity. Who knows what'll come of it?

I, myself, am a lapsed Catholic. It doesn't bother me too much. I also have a lapsed fashion sense.

Love,
CJ

[Marda]

Supplemental to CJs notes on the history and translation of the term "Catholic" ... my late father (some of you may recall my mention of his "CDism") participated locally as a strong member of his nearby "Lutheran" church ...

as he and I discussed a few times, he participated not *because of* "Lutheranism", but rather *in spite* of it ... simply put, he wanted to "give something back" to his community, and in the early days of his involvement with that young local church, there were a lot of nice people there who gave him the opportunity ...

one of the benefits he worked for was the development of a new church building and his eventual lobbying efforts to establish that building as the home rehearsal location of an orphaned "Community Choir" group ... the group that sang at his funeral last April ...

and during my visits at the time of my father's funeral, the most notable feelings I sensed from most of the people still visiting that particular Lutheran Church were of their general pessimism and misery ... apparently, the people my father had once enjoyed being with had all moved on or away leaving a nice building partly full of mostly unhappy stragglers ...

and when I pushed my nose into the arrangement of his funeral service, as I felt I had the right to do, I encountered all sorts of resistance and official reasons why "not" for everything I suggested, and that I knew were important to my father ...

so I backed off, and let everybody moan in misery and punish themselves for their sins, and simply left the arrangement meeting with the one request that I be allowed to speak after everybody else, and just before the Church Pastor ...

and come the time of the funeral, between songs by my father's Community Choir, I had my opportunity to speak ... and I delivered the message of happiness my father wanted me to deliver ... and I have never spoken with those miserable people ever since ...

apparently, not all Lutheran Churches are so unhappy
~

/ Marda

[Kersten Lee]

CJ, Marda,

I wanted to see Temptation of Christ. But believe it or not, It was never found here. All retail and video and movie theaters self imposed censorship in our town by church pressure or the need not to alienate customers. I didn't want to see it bad enough to order a copy.

Growing up, Marda, my Lutheran church was filled with alot of sanctimoneous, unhappy people. I believed God was all about suffering up until about two years ago. I understand personally the hate and harm so called Christians heap on others. But because these people, in my opinion pervert God's message, using it to hate rather than include and love, does not stop myself from considering I am Christian. I know why so many people here have it in for Christians. I have gone through persecution and hate by so called Christians too. The point I have been reiterating for sometime is because one cross-dresser is a child molester or say is gay does not make all All cross-dressers either. That is not equalling molestation and gays. I support the Gay movement for equal treatment under the law.

Kersten

[Marda]

Hi Kersten, et al,
~
Since you brought it up, personally I don't recognize any so called "Gay" movement ... and I don't support the general concept of "Gayism" ... it's all too unidimensional for me ...

rather like "acknowledging" the placement and movement of objects in space, all the while holding true and fast to the fundamental "belief" that Earth is the centre of the universe and therefore "all roads lead to Rome" (or Greece as the case may be ...
~

I also avoid like a plague, any talk that links "Gayism'" and CDing, other than the simple, and undeniable logical equation that allows the statements "all people who recognize "Gayism" ought to be considered human beings ... some of the aforementioned human beings may or may not choose to contemplate or participate in the otherwise totally unrelated behaviour of CDing ... similarly, some of the [...] may or may not choose to ingest meat tissues or meatlike products during behaviours commonly associated with human life support ie. eating
~

On these happy notes, I wonder really why people are so apparently freaked out by any reference(s) to human spirituality in general ... what is everybody so afraid of ???

I'm curious also to understand why everybody seems to "back up against a wall" and/or preamble comments or references about "Mel's Movie" with a litany of disclaimers and politically correct posturespeak ...

Does anyone out there go a bit deeper into their popcorn to contemplate the "subject" of "Mel's Movie" in a more "Universal" sense ???

Does anyone out there see any message about "Matters Present but *Unseen*" ??? You know ???

Does anyone out there see any parallels between the "images" of "Mels Movie" and what actually goes on all around us day by day in our very world ??? You Know ???

Or is this just another "flick" ??? You Know ???
~

/Marda

[Kersten Lee]

Marda,

I might understand what you are saying and then again maybe not. I have not see the movie yet. I would guess that it is an important movie if for nothing else than to expand discussion. Probably what anyone may feel they gained or lost is a wholy personal reaction to it. I believe that for myself that it will be an intensely spiritual and emotional experience. I can't say for anyone else.

I say the same about a lot of literature, art, theater, music, world religions, or even fashion. For instance it upsets me so much that my wife is completely flat line when it comes to art or music. I'm not educated in either but both do cause me great hope, happiness, pain, loss, spirituallity and a belief in a supreme being and sometimes a belief in nothing good. Sometimes I will be bored or feel nothing. They cause me to see or understand parts off myself that I was unable or unwilling to examine.
My wife has always claimed she has little reaction. I have questioned her often if she has a soul or just a big empty hole.

I believe money or position does not define a man's nor a countries' worth. I believe each of our cultures and a countries culture define what and who they are. What and who are our idols? What are our top three priorities in every transaction we undertake. Of course if there are any amoralists out there this whole discussion is just empty radio air time.

For all these reasons I love you, Christina and all the others here that I read. You all by these crazy talks say things about yourselves. Because I am human, at least by some standards, and because you exist, think, feel and express thoughts, you all become a part of me. For me this all is the best spiritual place my soul has spent time.

I know I am nuts, but I don't care. I'll believe all of you are a part of me even if you don't want to be. I believe connectedness is one of life's rewards. All of you have convinced me this is so. I didn't believe much of what I just said until I became part of this fine group of humans. As you said, cross-dressers or not it makes no difference. As we daily share our happiness and pain, we are family!

Kersten

[Marda]

Hi Kersten,
~
Tnx for the inspiring reply ... *you* for one have obviously experienced enough of the WOM that you no longer feel an intense need to fear a blast or two of cosmic wind in the face (or up your skirt)

Personally, I think I'm fortunate, for among other forces which have acted on my life, to have A) worked in funeral service, and B) have a friend who's a noted global authority on Canadian Inuit Art ...

Whenever I start feeling sorry for myself, I need only consider for a moment the plight of an Eskimo CD ...

if the 50 below zero and dropping temperatures in the bathroom don't get your attention back into the "here & now", the price of lipstick, not to mention the terrible selection of panties down at the general store will surely help get you restarted on your personal "Survival" show ...

OK ... happily, I'll be quiet now ... knowing that everyone else has so many more problems than I ...
~

/Marda