I have a question:
In the article "The Multi-Dimensionmality of Gender", by Carl Bushong
( http://www.ren.org/bushong.html ) he speaks of TG people as having the real
person, and also having the external persona, which is an artificial
being created to be of the body's external gender, and to deal with
the outside world consistent with that gender.
He also says (concerning M/F people),
"It has been my observation that the female subjective self needs
little help in growing up and developing if the overpowering weight
of the male persona is removed from it. The M/F individual has spent
years, decades developing, reinforcing and living in their male
role. Dismantling the male persona takes a great deal of time,
effort and outside help. In those individuals identified
as "transsexual", their subjective sense of happiness and success is
directly parallel with the degree they have dismantled their male
identity, not on their age, physical size, hormones, surgery, etc."
The implication seems clear that when the process is complete, that
this male persona will be basically gone.
Have any of you had experience in this area who would like to add
enlightenment here?
And if what he says is true, then what is the best way to remove the
overburden so the real self can rise to the surface and live?
My interest is aroused partly because of the similarities and
differences between this and the phenomena of DID, with its
multiplicity of personae.
Multi-Dimensionmality
Moderators: KimberlyS, CathyAnn
-
Loretta Ann
- Permanently Banned
- Posts: 2199
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
- Location: Vancouver, Canada
-
Beauty
- Retired Site Administrator
- Posts: 3662
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:30 am
- Location: Northern VA
- Contact:
Hi Darlene,
Well, I feel that I walk right in the middle. I don't want to transition to a woman, but there are things about the manliness of my body that I just can't stand.
I have been on a testosterone blocker for several months now and the desired affects are exactly what I wanted so far. What the pill I'm taking does is it tells the body, "No you already have too much testosterone already, so tell the testes to not produce any more." So my erections are much less and controlled. That's something I hate about "down there". It drove me crazy that I couldn't control it and it's one of the things I don't like about being a guy. :IMPORTANT: Doctor visits are a must for any medication being taken. All vital organs must be monitored if taking anything.
I am not taking any feminization hormones as that's not something I care to do to my body. I don't want to feminize my body. I feel my femme features are enough for my body (excluding my head).
So the other thing I plan on changing is my jaw line. This is will be probably done in 2006 and the procedure is known as FFS. The good thing is this surgery will help me with my profile of what I feel is too male of a jaw line.
Having very little testosterone pumping through my body had helped me so much. I'm not as excitable, but more than that it gives me the balance between the male and femme world I've always sought. For too long I was told, "You're a TS or you're a TV." Now I know I'm just me and me is a person who wouldn't be comfy at all as a full time gal or a full time guy. I live in both worlds and in my minds eye there are physical changes that I seek to balance myself out now.
This is soo much more than I really wanted to reveal about myself.
So I'm just trying to say I think yes, I do want to and have removed the male things about me that I don't like or don't want to live with. I don't believe that I'm two people though. Only one person lives here and this person is more femme than male, but chooses to live as a male to interact with society.
lol.. Darlene, ummmm did I like answer anything that was relevant to your questions?
Great thread! I'm looking forward to the input of others.
Beauty
Well, I feel that I walk right in the middle. I don't want to transition to a woman, but there are things about the manliness of my body that I just can't stand.
I have been on a testosterone blocker for several months now and the desired affects are exactly what I wanted so far. What the pill I'm taking does is it tells the body, "No you already have too much testosterone already, so tell the testes to not produce any more." So my erections are much less and controlled. That's something I hate about "down there". It drove me crazy that I couldn't control it and it's one of the things I don't like about being a guy. :IMPORTANT: Doctor visits are a must for any medication being taken. All vital organs must be monitored if taking anything.
I am not taking any feminization hormones as that's not something I care to do to my body. I don't want to feminize my body. I feel my femme features are enough for my body (excluding my head).
So the other thing I plan on changing is my jaw line. This is will be probably done in 2006 and the procedure is known as FFS. The good thing is this surgery will help me with my profile of what I feel is too male of a jaw line.
Having very little testosterone pumping through my body had helped me so much. I'm not as excitable, but more than that it gives me the balance between the male and femme world I've always sought. For too long I was told, "You're a TS or you're a TV." Now I know I'm just me and me is a person who wouldn't be comfy at all as a full time gal or a full time guy. I live in both worlds and in my minds eye there are physical changes that I seek to balance myself out now.
This is soo much more than I really wanted to reveal about myself.
So I'm just trying to say I think yes, I do want to and have removed the male things about me that I don't like or don't want to live with. I don't believe that I'm two people though. Only one person lives here and this person is more femme than male, but chooses to live as a male to interact with society.
lol.. Darlene, ummmm did I like answer anything that was relevant to your questions?
Great thread! I'm looking forward to the input of others.
Beauty
-
Carolynn
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 2754
- Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:52 pm
- Location: Oklahoma City area
- Contact:
Hi Darlene!!!
Bushong's comments do indeed apply to me. First, I have always been "me". I do not have a male side and a fem. side, I am just me. But I started building a "male" presence to interact with the world when I was in elementary school for my protection in school and to avoid, I don't know, aviod disappointing the expectations of my family? Did you know even families can be blind? The costs of a male personality projection can be high, very high, for a TG.
In my early years in that school I was called a sissy more than once, as I preferred being around girls (and at that age they would let me), did not care for the pickup games of sports, though I would play at some of the imagination games like Cowboys and Rustlers and "War", but was relatively uncomfortable with the roughness and attitudes that were expressed by the boys. Did not like to wrestle, or try my strength against my "peers" (very primate behavior, that, just watch young baboon and chimp males) and came to not like being touched by them. I had to protect myself by building a mask, and that is how I thought of it, and I did this very deliberately, watching other people and picking and choosing things that I could live with. When you have to do this so deliberately, you have insights into human actions and behavior that others your age never have, and sometimes never develop.
As I got older and entered highschool, I knew I was lying about myself, and because I was and am very aware of who I am, and I am basically honest, I found I couldn't project attitudes and feelings too much at odds with mine (I felt I would go crazy if I tried). I found I could use smiles and good humor, project an open and accepting attitude toward people when they approached me ( both of which are true parts of me), but never felt confidence enough in the effectiveness of that personality to do the approaching. That by itself wasn't nearly enough. I deliberately selected non confrontational body language, and often just "had nothing to say" if I felt a bit uncomfortable and left the scene if I got too uncomfortable. I was never a leader, never a follower, just had to sit on the edges on the outside and fade into the background. Others I have read about had full highschool careers, playing sports, dating, all the other highschool things, but that was not me. I had to learn to not touch. I have always been a "patter", on the shoulder or back to reassure someone, and just for the human contact that we all crave but so often do not get, and that was not acceptable in highschool in boy social order, and is not in a work environment largely either.
I learned the walk, to lead with the chin and shoulders, and to let the shoulders swing slightly, elbows out, but not to swagger (aggressive posture, attracts unwanted potential violence) and to sit and stand so as to take up space, and essentially project a personal space boundary (very male primate behavior ), but not to the extent of aggressiveness. That, by the way, is a fine line sometimes. Pitch your voice low, make as much a rumble out of it as possible, and guard against exuberance, and don't show soft feelings, and most of all don't ever let them make you cry. Learn to "close up", to make your face show the expression of teens that is impasive, non revealing, and in some instances sends the message "don't bother me right now, I'm thinking or in a bad mood". That was around male peers and male teachers.
I was more relaxed around a group of girls, and women, in fact I was pathetically happy when I could be, but even there I was never part of the group, only there for some purpose, but even that was better than nothing at all. But still had to project that sense of personal distance to help protect myself. It would have been all too easy to let down that defense completely in that company, and then I would have completely been undone, exposed and I had already learned that was not something that would have been acceptable. I even had to keep up the mask, mainly by withdrawing behind it, around my family, and that was hard. Have I told you families are blind to what they don't want to see in their offspring?
I took refuge as often as possible in books, retreating behind them so I did not have to interact, taking pressure off the mask, and I would put my entire attention in them and lose myself in them. Sometimes I wasn't even reading, but was thinking instead, just had the book open so I could have an excuse to not participate in, well, whatever! I also had to learn to "laugh" at sad parts of a movie, and more than once I was glad it was dark in the movie theatre as that part of the projection didn't work alot of the time. Ever tried to laugh scornfully through tears? Not easy! But don't ever let them see you cry!
By college, and in part as a result of working in public in a grocery store, I had things down pretty well. I achieved a minimalist male mask that minimumized the lies I needed in order to display behaviors that allowed people to accept me the way that made them comfortable. There were attitudes I could express (whether I believed them or not), gestures I could use, manner of walking that would vibe male and had become almost second nature, and even though I knew keenly that I was lying when I projected male, it was necessary to my continued good health and family and social relations. You learn to project confidence so you can get work, for example.
But there were boundaries I could never cross. Things like I never even tried to establish any dating relationships, as that would compound the lie beyond my ability to accept; and on more than one occasion, while having essentially been forced by circumstances to be in a male group in a typical male situation (group showers in boot camp; with a group that starts flirting with girls in a blatent way, often lying through their teeth, and that made me uncomfortable; at a bar in Japan, the Phillipenes and Hong Kong where there were "bar girls" to "drink and socialize with" who also had a second career or sideline and were aggressive in trying to ply it) where I was acutely uncomfortable, and I would use various strategums, often flimsy even to my ears, to get myself away from the situation. I was vulnerable at those times, and though it might not be remarked on, it was noticed by several of my peers, as you could clealy see by the looks of confusion on their faces.
Certain situations of built-in social expectations, like when I was in the military with a uniform, or in my work role as the "authority" or "team leader", makes it easier to function in that the mask doesn't have to be so complete. I think that is one reason that TG people are often in places like the military, police and firefighters, as it gives them a masculine image, an immediacy of identity, and an opportunity to take risks and appear macho. Risk taking hobbies, racing motorcycles, parachuting, are also macho activities that can reinforce the role.
This got longer than I intended, and I don't have time to edit it down. Looking back over what I have written, in a somewhat disjointed way, as long as there are certain parameters (professional position, attitudes and expressions of male behavior) where people can see and interpret what they expect to see in a "male personality", it is possible to be accepted as male. The costs can be high. I have always held back from the more intimate sorts of relationships and friendships that might reveal too much. The lack of that kind of closeness has always been a part of my costs.
But remember that behind the mask, TG people always have the sense of just being themselves, no matter who that may be.
Bushong's comments do indeed apply to me. First, I have always been "me". I do not have a male side and a fem. side, I am just me. But I started building a "male" presence to interact with the world when I was in elementary school for my protection in school and to avoid, I don't know, aviod disappointing the expectations of my family? Did you know even families can be blind? The costs of a male personality projection can be high, very high, for a TG.
In my early years in that school I was called a sissy more than once, as I preferred being around girls (and at that age they would let me), did not care for the pickup games of sports, though I would play at some of the imagination games like Cowboys and Rustlers and "War", but was relatively uncomfortable with the roughness and attitudes that were expressed by the boys. Did not like to wrestle, or try my strength against my "peers" (very primate behavior, that, just watch young baboon and chimp males) and came to not like being touched by them. I had to protect myself by building a mask, and that is how I thought of it, and I did this very deliberately, watching other people and picking and choosing things that I could live with. When you have to do this so deliberately, you have insights into human actions and behavior that others your age never have, and sometimes never develop.
As I got older and entered highschool, I knew I was lying about myself, and because I was and am very aware of who I am, and I am basically honest, I found I couldn't project attitudes and feelings too much at odds with mine (I felt I would go crazy if I tried). I found I could use smiles and good humor, project an open and accepting attitude toward people when they approached me ( both of which are true parts of me), but never felt confidence enough in the effectiveness of that personality to do the approaching. That by itself wasn't nearly enough. I deliberately selected non confrontational body language, and often just "had nothing to say" if I felt a bit uncomfortable and left the scene if I got too uncomfortable. I was never a leader, never a follower, just had to sit on the edges on the outside and fade into the background. Others I have read about had full highschool careers, playing sports, dating, all the other highschool things, but that was not me. I had to learn to not touch. I have always been a "patter", on the shoulder or back to reassure someone, and just for the human contact that we all crave but so often do not get, and that was not acceptable in highschool in boy social order, and is not in a work environment largely either.
I learned the walk, to lead with the chin and shoulders, and to let the shoulders swing slightly, elbows out, but not to swagger (aggressive posture, attracts unwanted potential violence) and to sit and stand so as to take up space, and essentially project a personal space boundary (very male primate behavior
), but not to the extent of aggressiveness. That, by the way, is a fine line sometimes. Pitch your voice low, make as much a rumble out of it as possible, and guard against exuberance, and don't show soft feelings, and most of all don't ever let them make you cry. Learn to "close up", to make your face show the expression of teens that is impasive, non revealing, and in some instances sends the message "don't bother me right now, I'm thinking or in a bad mood". That was around male peers and male teachers. I was more relaxed around a group of girls, and women, in fact I was pathetically happy when I could be, but even there I was never part of the group, only there for some purpose, but even that was better than nothing at all. But still had to project that sense of personal distance to help protect myself. It would have been all too easy to let down that defense completely in that company, and then I would have completely been undone, exposed and I had already learned that was not something that would have been acceptable. I even had to keep up the mask, mainly by withdrawing behind it, around my family, and that was hard. Have I told you families are blind to what they don't want to see in their offspring?
I took refuge as often as possible in books, retreating behind them so I did not have to interact, taking pressure off the mask, and I would put my entire attention in them and lose myself in them. Sometimes I wasn't even reading, but was thinking instead, just had the book open so I could have an excuse to not participate in, well, whatever! I also had to learn to "laugh" at sad parts of a movie, and more than once I was glad it was dark in the movie theatre as that part of the projection didn't work alot of the time. Ever tried to laugh scornfully through tears? Not easy! But don't ever let them see you cry!
By college, and in part as a result of working in public in a grocery store, I had things down pretty well. I achieved a minimalist male mask that minimumized the lies I needed in order to display behaviors that allowed people to accept me the way that made them comfortable. There were attitudes I could express (whether I believed them or not), gestures I could use, manner of walking that would vibe male and had become almost second nature, and even though I knew keenly that I was lying when I projected male, it was necessary to my continued good health and family and social relations. You learn to project confidence so you can get work, for example.
But there were boundaries I could never cross. Things like I never even tried to establish any dating relationships, as that would compound the lie beyond my ability to accept; and on more than one occasion, while having essentially been forced by circumstances to be in a male group in a typical male situation (group showers in boot camp; with a group that starts flirting with girls in a blatent way, often lying through their teeth, and that made me uncomfortable; at a bar in Japan, the Phillipenes and Hong Kong where there were "bar girls" to "drink and socialize with" who also had a second career or sideline and were aggressive in trying to ply it) where I was acutely uncomfortable, and I would use various strategums, often flimsy even to my ears, to get myself away from the situation. I was vulnerable at those times, and though it might not be remarked on, it was noticed by several of my peers, as you could clealy see by the looks of confusion on their faces.
Certain situations of built-in social expectations, like when I was in the military with a uniform, or in my work role as the "authority" or "team leader", makes it easier to function in that the mask doesn't have to be so complete. I think that is one reason that TG people are often in places like the military, police and firefighters, as it gives them a masculine image, an immediacy of identity, and an opportunity to take risks and appear macho. Risk taking hobbies, racing motorcycles, parachuting, are also macho activities that can reinforce the role.
This got longer than I intended, and I don't have time to edit it down. Looking back over what I have written, in a somewhat disjointed way, as long as there are certain parameters (professional position, attitudes and expressions of male behavior) where people can see and interpret what they expect to see in a "male personality", it is possible to be accepted as male. The costs can be high. I have always held back from the more intimate sorts of relationships and friendships that might reveal too much. The lack of that kind of closeness has always been a part of my costs.
But remember that behind the mask, TG people always have the sense of just being themselves, no matter who that may be."It’s not given to anyone to have no regrets; only to decide, through the choices we make, which regrets we’ll have,"
David Weber – In Fury Born
David Weber – In Fury Born
-
Tea Cake
- Miss Emerald Goddess
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:20 pm
- Location: Ak
*
Challenging post Darlene---I really enjoyed that article. There are some new ideas in it that will take time for me to understand.
Perhaps in realizing our varied perspectives on the subject of multiplicity, it would be useful to consider compartmentalizing on aspects other than just gender.
COMPARTMENTS within and without:---------------------------------------
Living in North America---especially around suburban environmemts---the lifestyles of many people are created with a compartmentalized attitude.
That is--the communities that people live in( neighbors etc...) are not directly a part of a person's life,
although people can seem to live on top of one another--they still have constructed lives whose emotional landscapes are kept seperate and personal from the people living around them.
Wholeness in such lifestyles is bound to be a little disjointed.
I believe this way of living contibutes greatly to the compartmentalizing style people use to explore gender.
In some ways--people seem to have the ability to really seperate their " secret-behaviors" from even themselves( though at an emotional cost).
I think this is a " learned " behavior.
ACCEPTANCE:
------------------------------------
Relating in a WHOLE-WAY to our immediate physical surroundings is a huge player in general quality of emotional life--and a communities subsequent acceptance of personality variations--at least in my view.
The " extended-family" of old used to inhabit a landscape and created an extended comfort-zone that I believe fostered diversity and acceptence for personalities outside " The norm."
The more balanced and content a society is, the more accepting of varience they are. I still believe that fear is the root of predjudice...and betrays a society that is " less than healthy>"
I believe this is a cultural thing, this " seperate from community lifestyle that has grown with suburban sprawl.
and at least in my view---this " new" version of community has grown up in only the past 150 years or so.
and that as human beings have evolved---this compartmentalization has made psychological variations seem more difficult, and their mazes less cipherable.
-------------------------------------Gender does not fit in a box
-----------------------------------
Thinking of gender-crossing specifically, I am certain that a " Feminine" role defies broad definition.
My personal experiences travelling and working in odd places on the globe, and a lifetime moving around( my childhood)--I have always been surrounded by dynamic women who were physically powerful and mentally sharp.
It was probably because I worked for women in challenging physical situations( fishing boats etc..)---that my picture of women was further developed.
Sports as well---track, skiing, equestrian, infact look at the Olympics! etc..women tune their body's and minds towards physical challenge and are motivated by realizing themselves--NOT trying to be men.
I have come to my view of " the Feminine " as an attitude of energy---capable of grace in action
---the appearance and style of the strong women who I admire are unmistakably female...
I do not agree with a the notion that women are some how more passive than men.
------------------------------------
Gender-variations are as old as time:
------------------------------------
Lest I ramble too much more---looking back to cultural traditions can lead to suprising insights into ways people could express their gender variations over the centuries.
Can you imagine what an incerdible oppertunity that Shakespearian theatre offered to young actors who longed to dress as women and embody that grace as an accepted and challenging expression?
What a cool channel that must have been---
I regard crossdressed photo-portraits as an excellent art-form
other art-forms still offer a unique haven for expressing gender-crossing appearances too
---wether or not the actual " art " embodies that---at least our society still excpects it's artists to be edgy and different
.
Artists may even be seen to " express" things that " closeted-members" of a society may truly benefit from.
In our modern compartmentalized society---I think finding one's way to a complete feeling life can be a difficult thing
--especially if someone begins to feel they can't be themselves.
Especially if one feels stigma because of their built in gender variation( I believe we are born this way).
I wonder how many other " departments" of a person's psychological experience contribute to their notions on gender.
perhaps shedding " the male" persona isn't important at all for personal realization---but a shedding of cultural-programing is.
I really do support anyone who is seeking wholeness and hope these ideas are useful in seeking ideas.
-------I write these thoughts in the spirit of understanding, and hope no one is offended by my " take" on this.
---TC
Perhaps in realizing our varied perspectives on the subject of multiplicity, it would be useful to consider compartmentalizing on aspects other than just gender.
COMPARTMENTS within and without:---------------------------------------
Living in North America---especially around suburban environmemts---the lifestyles of many people are created with a compartmentalized attitude.
That is--the communities that people live in( neighbors etc...) are not directly a part of a person's life,
although people can seem to live on top of one another--they still have constructed lives whose emotional landscapes are kept seperate and personal from the people living around them.
Wholeness in such lifestyles is bound to be a little disjointed.
I believe this way of living contibutes greatly to the compartmentalizing style people use to explore gender.
In some ways--people seem to have the ability to really seperate their " secret-behaviors" from even themselves( though at an emotional cost).
I think this is a " learned " behavior.
ACCEPTANCE:
------------------------------------
Relating in a WHOLE-WAY to our immediate physical surroundings is a huge player in general quality of emotional life--and a communities subsequent acceptance of personality variations--at least in my view.
The " extended-family" of old used to inhabit a landscape and created an extended comfort-zone that I believe fostered diversity and acceptence for personalities outside " The norm."
The more balanced and content a society is, the more accepting of varience they are. I still believe that fear is the root of predjudice...and betrays a society that is " less than healthy>"
I believe this is a cultural thing, this " seperate from community lifestyle that has grown with suburban sprawl.
and at least in my view---this " new" version of community has grown up in only the past 150 years or so.
and that as human beings have evolved---this compartmentalization has made psychological variations seem more difficult, and their mazes less cipherable.
-------------------------------------Gender does not fit in a box
-----------------------------------
Thinking of gender-crossing specifically, I am certain that a " Feminine" role defies broad definition.
My personal experiences travelling and working in odd places on the globe, and a lifetime moving around( my childhood)--I have always been surrounded by dynamic women who were physically powerful and mentally sharp.
It was probably because I worked for women in challenging physical situations( fishing boats etc..)---that my picture of women was further developed.
Sports as well---track, skiing, equestrian, infact look at the Olympics! etc..women tune their body's and minds towards physical challenge and are motivated by realizing themselves--NOT trying to be men.
I have come to my view of " the Feminine " as an attitude of energy---capable of grace in action
---the appearance and style of the strong women who I admire are unmistakably female...
I do not agree with a the notion that women are some how more passive than men.
------------------------------------
Gender-variations are as old as time:
------------------------------------
Lest I ramble too much more---looking back to cultural traditions can lead to suprising insights into ways people could express their gender variations over the centuries.
Can you imagine what an incerdible oppertunity that Shakespearian theatre offered to young actors who longed to dress as women and embody that grace as an accepted and challenging expression?
What a cool channel that must have been---
I regard crossdressed photo-portraits as an excellent art-form
other art-forms still offer a unique haven for expressing gender-crossing appearances too
---wether or not the actual " art " embodies that---at least our society still excpects it's artists to be edgy and different
.
Artists may even be seen to " express" things that " closeted-members" of a society may truly benefit from.
In our modern compartmentalized society---I think finding one's way to a complete feeling life can be a difficult thing
--especially if someone begins to feel they can't be themselves.
Especially if one feels stigma because of their built in gender variation( I believe we are born this way).
I wonder how many other " departments" of a person's psychological experience contribute to their notions on gender.
perhaps shedding " the male" persona isn't important at all for personal realization---but a shedding of cultural-programing is.
I really do support anyone who is seeking wholeness and hope these ideas are useful in seeking ideas.
-------I write these thoughts in the spirit of understanding, and hope no one is offended by my " take" on this.
---TC
Last edited by Tea Cake on Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
-
Loretta Ann
- Permanently Banned
- Posts: 2199
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
- Location: Vancouver, Canada
Hi Beauty and Carolynn,
I think it is really neat that you both went longer than you had planned to.
My post was/is an edited version from some one else's post from another forum which I belong to.
It has brought out some things that I may have been blind to, and I really appreciate both of you taking the time to be as elaborate as you have been, thank you.
The reason I posted it here is so that I could learn some more about this life we share. It has me wondering what I have been blind to in my past, and what I might still be blind to.
I too am looking forward to what others have to say.
I think it is really neat that you both went longer than you had planned to.
My post was/is an edited version from some one else's post from another forum which I belong to.
It has brought out some things that I may have been blind to, and I really appreciate both of you taking the time to be as elaborate as you have been, thank you.
The reason I posted it here is so that I could learn some more about this life we share. It has me wondering what I have been blind to in my past, and what I might still be blind to.
I too am looking forward to what others have to say.
-
Rachel Ann
- We Will Never Forget You - Rest in Peace
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:22 am
- Location: Across the bay from San Francisco
I guess I am with Beauty (in the middle) but a bit further over to the male side. This because I have suppressed my anima for so much of my life and am just now putting a lot of energy in to coaxing her out.
Rachel gives Rick nurturing and comfort, Rick is Rachel's protective big brother. Both give the other love and care. So, both of them are crucial elements of my personality.
There doesn't seem to be a "both" category in current gender definitions.
Rachel gives Rick nurturing and comfort, Rick is Rachel's protective big brother. Both give the other love and care. So, both of them are crucial elements of my personality.
There doesn't seem to be a "both" category in current gender definitions.
Rachel xxx
RIP April 2007
RIP April 2007
-
Loretta Ann
- Permanently Banned
- Posts: 2199
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
- Location: Vancouver, Canada
-
Jassmine(SO)
- Miss Golden Goddess
- Posts: 626
- Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:13 am
- Location: Irving
-
Elizabeth
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1878
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 3:02 am
Hi Darlene,
It is interesting that you should reference this article, as I just found and read it about a week ago.
I am sure many of you remember me talking on several different occasions about my fake male personna. How that person was just a tool. I think the authors views agree with what I feel happened to me, precisely. I have always had my inner self, and knew who I was, but I needed the male personna to gain the most from society. Even though I projected that personna forcefully, I never internally confused it. I always thought of myself as being female.
One of the issues that really intrigued me over the years, and quite honestly made my question my gender identity, was that I could not resolve internally how I could feel like I was a girl, yet still be physically attracted to girls. And if I was a girl trapped in a man's body, why was I not attracted to men?
Of course now I know they are two different things. I know many of you have seen me cast off my male identity with absolute abandon. And I must say I have no regrets. I do feel like Elizabeth is who I am. I am in a very fortunate situation that I am disabled and don't work. Therefore I only had to come out to my family friends. Since I am estranged from most of my family, and really only have two friends, it was not all that difficult to shed my male personna.
It is my beleif that shedding the male personna is the key. It is a tough decision to make, and I can tell all of you, I never thought I would have shed my male personna so quickly, and with such abandon. However, because I feel like I have not grown emotionally, or spiritually since I was a kid, it seemed to me that putting it off was not going to be good either. It was a choice between continuing to be miserable, or going with the real me, and taking a chance.
I don't know where this is going. All I know is that I love being me. I know that I regret not coming out earlier. Not being willing to give up the advantages of the male personna because of societal rewards, both financially, and emotionally. However, looking back, what it cost me was too much. I gave up getting to be me. To truely live as a happy person who accepts themselves. Looking back, giving up those years destroyed my ability to love myself. I felt like I sold myself out.
I do agree that once you shed the restraints of the male personna, it is easy for the person within to grow.
Love always,
Elizabeth
It is interesting that you should reference this article, as I just found and read it about a week ago.
I am sure many of you remember me talking on several different occasions about my fake male personna. How that person was just a tool. I think the authors views agree with what I feel happened to me, precisely. I have always had my inner self, and knew who I was, but I needed the male personna to gain the most from society. Even though I projected that personna forcefully, I never internally confused it. I always thought of myself as being female.
One of the issues that really intrigued me over the years, and quite honestly made my question my gender identity, was that I could not resolve internally how I could feel like I was a girl, yet still be physically attracted to girls. And if I was a girl trapped in a man's body, why was I not attracted to men?
Of course now I know they are two different things. I know many of you have seen me cast off my male identity with absolute abandon. And I must say I have no regrets. I do feel like Elizabeth is who I am. I am in a very fortunate situation that I am disabled and don't work. Therefore I only had to come out to my family friends. Since I am estranged from most of my family, and really only have two friends, it was not all that difficult to shed my male personna.
It is my beleif that shedding the male personna is the key. It is a tough decision to make, and I can tell all of you, I never thought I would have shed my male personna so quickly, and with such abandon. However, because I feel like I have not grown emotionally, or spiritually since I was a kid, it seemed to me that putting it off was not going to be good either. It was a choice between continuing to be miserable, or going with the real me, and taking a chance.
I don't know where this is going. All I know is that I love being me. I know that I regret not coming out earlier. Not being willing to give up the advantages of the male personna because of societal rewards, both financially, and emotionally. However, looking back, what it cost me was too much. I gave up getting to be me. To truely live as a happy person who accepts themselves. Looking back, giving up those years destroyed my ability to love myself. I felt like I sold myself out.
I do agree that once you shed the restraints of the male personna, it is easy for the person within to grow.
Love always,
Elizabeth
-
Tea Cake
- Miss Emerald Goddess
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:20 pm
- Location: Ak
Thanks Darlene,
I appreciate your honesty,
I think this autumn I shall try to streamline my words!
I'm getting a good creative release out of painting lately--so no excuses for not taming down some thoughts so that they make sense to someone else.
In the nutshell:
Perhaps some of the need to embody a cross-gender subcharacter,
stems in part from missing a few human-needs due to environmental disconnect...and not just the result of gender variance.
have a great evening!-----------------------------------------Tc
I appreciate your honesty,
I think this autumn I shall try to streamline my words!
I'm getting a good creative release out of painting lately--so no excuses for not taming down some thoughts so that they make sense to someone else.
In the nutshell:
Perhaps some of the need to embody a cross-gender subcharacter,
stems in part from missing a few human-needs due to environmental disconnect...and not just the result of gender variance.
have a great evening!-----------------------------------------Tc
-
Rachel Ann
- We Will Never Forget You - Rest in Peace
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:22 am
- Location: Across the bay from San Francisco
Ladies
I think that this is a great thread. Everyone expressed their position so well.
When I arrived at these boards, somewhat bewildered, I was so reassured to learn that there are many places along the TG scale and that it is ok to be wherever suits you on that scale, or to move along it in either direction.
So I can see how many feel that it is important to shed their male personae, while I remain contentedly bi-gendered (is that a real word?)
Love
I think that this is a great thread. Everyone expressed their position so well.
When I arrived at these boards, somewhat bewildered, I was so reassured to learn that there are many places along the TG scale and that it is ok to be wherever suits you on that scale, or to move along it in either direction.
So I can see how many feel that it is important to shed their male personae, while I remain contentedly bi-gendered (is that a real word?)
Love
Rachel xxx
RIP April 2007
RIP April 2007
-
Elizabeth
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1878
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 3:02 am
Hi girls,
Rachel Ann,
Love always,
Elizabeth
Rachel Ann,
I so agree with that. We have members from almost every part of the spectrum. The one thing I got out of that article what just how many different ways we can be wired and as a consequence how different we can all while still having this one common thread about us.Rachel Ann wrote:
I was so reassured to learn that there are many places along the TG scale and that it is ok to be wherever suits you on that scale, or to move along it in either direction.
Love always,
Elizabeth
-
Loretta Ann
- Permanently Banned
- Posts: 2199
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
- Location: Vancouver, Canada
Thank you Tea Cake,
I think it plays a large part in my life. Although it is hard for me to envision environmental connection meeting my needs as adequately as cross-dressing does.
I just don't think it can get any better.
I have believed that for a long time, this is the first time I have seen anyone else put it into words.stems in part from missing a few human-needs due to environmental disconnect...and not just the result of gender variance.
I think it plays a large part in my life. Although it is hard for me to envision environmental connection meeting my needs as adequately as cross-dressing does.
I just don't think it can get any better.
-
Virginia
- Goddess of the Universe
- Posts: 5543
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:06 pm
- Location: Strange Magic Hill
Hi Girls,
Why do you do this to me?? . Now I have to go back and restudy the "why." I have not been thinking about the why for a while, but as one of my sister's said, Virginia comforts me and I in turn protect her and allow her to nurture me as I have never been nutured. Where does it come from in that I appear to only be one person? Well she does seem to be a viable force "anima" even when I am in "male mode." I can sense her presence and how she extends the feminity into a lot of what I do and how I interact with others. It is really wonderful and the positive reactions I get a generally as a result of her influences.
My "excitement" is when this divorce I am in the midst of is over and I have "my own place," how much influence Virginia will have then. Now she is limited by my promise of not letting my future "ex" see Virginia. When that promise is no longer an issue and I can virtually do as I please, I think it was TeaCake that once siad that perhaps we only think we have control over our anima as that is what she wants us to think.
I gotta say it again, you girls are the greatest!
Love,
Virginia
Why do you do this to me??
. Now I have to go back and restudy the "why." I have not been thinking about the why for a while, but as one of my sister's said, Virginia comforts me and I in turn protect her and allow her to nurture me as I have never been nutured. Where does it come from in that I appear to only be one person? Well she does seem to be a viable force "anima" even when I am in "male mode." I can sense her presence and how she extends the feminity into a lot of what I do and how I interact with others. It is really wonderful and the positive reactions I get a generally as a result of her influences. My "excitement" is when this divorce I am in the midst of is over and I have "my own place," how much influence Virginia will have then. Now she is limited by my promise of not letting my future "ex" see Virginia. When that promise is no longer an issue and I can virtually do as I please, I think it was TeaCake that once siad that perhaps we only think we have control over our anima as that is what she wants us to think.
I gotta say it again, you girls are the greatest!
Love,
Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!