Decisions

Post by **DonnaT** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:19 pm

Back in the late 60's early 70's, my Dad used to bring home some management training booklets from the telephone company. In them were various scenarios and options for solving the issue at hand. Once you made your choice, you’d look up the one you chose to see if you chose right. If you chose wrong, it explained why. Right, it explained why it was the right one, or at least the best option available.

In that vain, here’s a scenario with four options.

Mary and John (a CD) meet, go out, date, get more comfortable with each other, fall in love, and get married.

John soon realizes he has a problem. He thought his CDing it was all behind him, but being around Mary’s feminine clothes has caused his urges to resurface.

"Mary has no idea, yet she love’s me," thought John. John has a serious talk with Mary, explaining all about crossdressing, how one is born transgendered, there is no cure, etc.. She’s hurt, but decides she still loves him and believes she can handle it.

Soon, they have a daughter, Erin. Like many good mothers, she wants Erin to have a safe happy home life. To raise her in a happy home with loving parents.

Thus, Mary revisits John’s crossdressing. She decides that for Erin’s sake, she has to make a decision. Her options:

A: She still loves him, his CDing hasn’t changed that. After mutual discussion and in respect for his need, they decide he’ll have to be more careful around Erin.

B: She still loves him, but he needs to curtail his CDing to when home alone, or in the guest bedroom. After mutual discussion he tried for A above, but that was not an option. So, out of respect for her, he agrees to curtail his CDing.

C: She doesn’t want Erin to be subjected to John’s CDing. She still loves him, but it is time to put John’s CDing to rest. She makes sure he purges all his fem belongings, or else. No further discussion will be tolerated.

D: None of the above.

Which would you choose, as the wife?

If you chose D: Please explain another option, and why this would appear to be a better solution.

If you chose C: John made a commitment, "for better or worse. . ." So John tries, but his urge is too strong. You don’t care, and want to hear no more about it. He has a hard time understanding why he must now stop, since you were ok with it for a while. He may become resentful, angry then depressed. He may find comfort in a drink every now and then. The drinking may become a release valve. You realize that he’s no longer the same loving caring father and husband he once was. Soon (1, 5, 10, 15 yrs), that happy home with loving parents you wanted for Erin is but a past dream. Divorce appears to be the only solution you can accept. Erin does not understand why. Do you tell her why? If so, then why keep it a secret in the first place. She may now hate you both for keeping it secret. She may hate you for not being understanding of your husbands needs. If you decide not to tell her why, she may think it is all her fault. After all, before she came along you two were happy and in love. That loving daughter may change now. Become a smoker a party girl. Losses all respect for you and/or her father. Knowing all these things MIGHT occur, do you still choose option C? If so, please explain, other than, "well that might not happen."

If you chose B: That happy home with loving parents you wanted for Erin becomes a reality, for now. Erin is unaware of her dad’s desire to crossdress. John has proven to be an excellent father. As Erin enters her early teen years, however, you become increasing worried that she will find out about her father. You begin to wonder what she will think of her father if she does find out. You soon see little things as a threat to Erin’s peace of mind. A pair of his panties in the wash. His failure to remove all traces of makeup. You ask he be more careful. His fem belongings are where Erin can find them. You ask that he lock them up. You come home unexpectedly and find him dressed. You argue that that could very well have been Erin coming home. Soon there is more and more discontent. Counseling is warranted, but does not help. He has been CDing now much too long to quit, and you both know it. You can’t change the way you feel either. Previous option C is no longer available. You decide, for Erin’s sake, on separation and maybe later divorce. That happy home with loving parents you wanted for Erin is but a past dream. The results of option C MIGHT then occur here also. Do you still choose option B? If so, please explain, other than, "well that might not happen."

If you chose A: This appears to be the best option, in light of all that MIGHT occur had you chose B or C. However, this option had the stipulation that John be "be more careful around Erin." What if he starts to slip, becomes a little careless. Do you now revisit option B? Option C?

Seems to be a no win situation, but it’s not. The "problem" can be easily solved. You see, the problem is not in John’s CDing, it is in acceptance and tolerance. Mary loved John. But how could this be, after all he’s a CD. She did not know it when she fell in love. She loved him for who he was, hopefully. And who he was included that CD side she knew nothing about. It should not have changed how she felt once she did find out, and initially it did not change.

What happened here, was the introduction of Erin into the equation. Instead of fearing what Erin would have thought of her father if she found out, they should have taught her early on tolerance for others and acceptance for what cannot be changed. This is true with respect to, for example, a person’s race or physical appearance (fat, skinny, handicap (mentally also)), sexual orientation or gender identity.

If Erin had been taught that CDing is not an aberration, then the happy home with loving parents Mary wanted for Erin would have been a lifelong reality, not a dream.

Another benefit of teach our kids tolerance and acceptance, hardly ever addressed, is that if Erin met Tom, went out, dated, got more comfortable with him, fell in love, got married, and then discovered he was a CD, they wouldn’t have to go through what Mary and John went through. Chances are pretty good that our daughters could very well meet and fall in love with a crossdresser.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:41 pm

D: None of the above.

Being that they were both aware of the cross-dressing before having children. It should have been decided before hand and John should have been given an opportunity to decide what conditions he would have to live with. Or perhaps even decide not to have any children if he felt he could not live with the conditions that Mary would impose on the relationship.

To do otherwise would be repeating the same mistake he made by not telling her before they married.

Very good topic Donna.

Virginia · Post by **Virginia** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:41 pm

I would defer to what I have read by the SO's. First if she was aware of CDing before they were married and she married him anyway - point in his favor. She thinks she may be able to correct this "personality flaw" after they are married, point in her favor. The fact that if he is a true CD it will never go away, point - draw! We all know a very few SO condone yea, like and even participate with their CD'er - A Perfect World??!!
Some SO's accept but place limitations - CD acceptable??!! Most married CD'er hopefully fall here.
We must realize that this "acceptance " is still a roller coaster ride for most SO's regardless of when they find out. (excluding those who absolutely refuse to accept it and make "us" walk the plank!) In reading the SO's part of the forum it was, is and evidently will always be a struggle for them to understand and acceptence is an additional challenge. Throw in children and the problem grows exponentially!
I don't know if ABCD are enough options. We, as CD'ers may learn/come to accept this but understand it???? I don't think any of us understand it.
We can dress right; look right; have all the moves, mannerisms and even attitudes down pat, but when that pretty little girl who sleeps next to us rolls out of bed in the morning and her feet hit the floor she a GG - we ain't and most of us will never be. Most of us CD'ers see this as a benign part of us and in most cases it is - They (GG's) for the most part do not. It scares the hell out of most of them. Some get over it, some accept it and some never do! We must be astute enough to know how to handle it within our own relationships. Good luck girls and just be aware!
Love,
Virginia

Post by **DonnaT** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:19 am

Darlene wrote:D: None of the above.

Being that they were both aware of the cross-dressing before having children. It should have been decided before hand and John should have been given an opportunity to decide what conditions he would have to live with. Or perhaps even decide not to have any children if he felt he could not live with the conditions that Mary would impose on the relationship.

If they decide that the conditions he would have to live with were either C or B, does that not lead us back to the original scenario? Many of us have made those same choices, quitting, curbing our desire. And if he can't quit or curb his desire we are back to square one.

Decide not to have kids. An apparent ligitimate option.

But what if she wants kids? Divorce may be the result of that decision. But they love each other, despite his CDing. Which is why they didn't separate when he first divulged his CDing. Family counseling would be in order so they can work out what to do about the CDing should they have kids.

Is the counselor familiar with gender dysphoria?

After couseling, they decide on options B or C. Back to square one. Why did they decide on one of these two options. He loves her and will promise and try to do anything to remain married. He honestly believes he can keep his promise. If he does, then all is well and good. If he doesn't, which is most likely from all that I've read, we are again back to B and C.

OR, after counseling they decide not to have kids. Will they be happy with that decision? Will no resentment raise it ugly head down the road. No way to tell until the time passes. If they can be happy with that decision, then a good choice was made.

HOWEVER, they had a kid, according to the scenario. So, although the choice may be a wise one if they can live with it, it isn't available as an option.

Virginia wrote:I don't know if ABCD are enough options.

But these are the only options to the scenario. D being an open option. Open for discussion, so we can figure out a better option than A, B or C.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:47 am

If they decide that the conditions he would have to live with were either C or B, does that not lead us back to the original scenario? Many of us have made those same choices, quitting, curbing our desire. And if he can't quit or curb his desire we are back to square one.

Perhaps Donna, But I think it looks like a case of the cross-dresser playing the victim. A place he has been in since childhood, and has not yet learned how to get out of. it. I lost both a wife and a daughter because I was still accepting the role of a victim. To me part of learning how to live with who I am, includes being in a position to decide what conditions if any I am willing to accept.

Quite frankly society has enough of those conditions that I have to deal with, without adding a bunch more to the list. Hind sight is such a wonderful teacher.

Love Darlene.

Post by **DonnaT** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:33 am

I think it looks like a case of the cross-dresser playing the victim

I've read such a statement before, but I didn't understand it. I still don't.

In the scenario given, how is John the victim?

Maybe I'm missing something here, and really would like to know. I didn't mean to portray him as the victim.

Also, I'm sorry for your loss, and hope I haven't saddened you or anyone else.

I only hope that this discussion may result in at least one person or family being helped or resolving current or unforseen issues.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:53 am

Donna,

The fact that John has found himself in a position where he may have to accept conditions that he would find it hard to live with makes him a victim of being a cross-dresser in an evironment that is not palatable.

The fact that as cross-dressers we have found ourselves in a world that makes it hard for us to live in makes us victims.

While I believe that there is always going to be some of those things that we will never be able to change. It does not mean that we need to accept that role with every part our lives. I need not live all aspects of my life conditioned by what other folks think I should be or do.

Living my life like that until after I got married and fathered a child.is the cause of the price I paid for not facing my cross-dressing earlier. In other words I was a victim of my own doing, although I did not realize it. And found myself in a situation where there was no tolerance.

Yes I know that many find ourselves in the position John is in, but as long as we are living the major part of our lives conditioned by others, we are unable to even give much thought to being free.

The reason I have decided to remain single is because I enjoy what freedom I am able to have in this mixed up world. I have had enough experience at playing the victim. but that is just my solution to the problem. Others will choose a different path.

Thank you for concern Donna but I am well on the other side of my loss and was not saddened in the least by what you have posted.

Love Darlene.

Gelinda · Post by **Gelinda** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:11 am

I would say A+B. Meaning John should be in the closet for the most part as far as his children go but teach open mindness to his child so that when she is old enough then Dad can explain it. But Mom needs more tolerance to begin with. Gelinda.

Jassmine(SO) · Post by **Jassmine(SO)** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:13 am

Howdy Y'all

Seeing as Ahzz and I have discussed how we would handle his CDing after we have children, I would have to go with D.

Ahzz and I agreed that the best way to handle this situation would be for him to keep dressing as he wished, and give age appropriate answers to any questions our children may ask. We both feel that this is the best way to teach our young 'uns' to be accepting of others' differences

*Hugs & Love*

Post by **DonnaT** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:38 am

Terri(SO) · Post by **Terri(SO)** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:12 am

I think Jassmine is most correct.

Of course teaching tolerance and acceptance is the way to go.

Of course the CD should tell and gain acceptance from his SO BEFORE making a life choice like marriage.

As I was reading this thread I was somehow thinking what Darlene said. That if A is chosen, that puts the CD in a position of victim. He has to agree to place limits on the CD and actually stick to them but feels if he can't/won't stick to the agreement, its the other person who has to change to accommodate.

This issue is pretty hypothetical for me as I don't live with my CD. But you can bet if that day were to come, that decision of whether they be told would be made UP FRONT.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:18 pm

Hi all,

As I was reading this thread I was somehow thinking what Darlene said. That if A is chosen, that puts the CD in a position of victim. He has to agree to place limits on the CD and actually stick to them but feels if he can't/won't stick to the agreement, its the other person who has to change to accommodate.

Interesting observation Terri, In that situation it places or includes the SO as the victim, and some SOs do not accept that. Which means that divorce is then the chosen alternative. Clearly the SO needs to be careful that she does not assume the position of a victim in the relationship.

If it has not been previously discussed and agreed upon before having a child, (as with Ahzz and Jassmine) the likely hood of someone being forced into the role of a victim is almost a guaranteed result.

Not that in some situations those issues can not be worked out later, but it makes it very difficult to accomplish when both parties are operating from the position of a victim. It places the relationship in the situation where both parties view the other one as the cause for there un-happiness.

Love Darlene.

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:55 pm

I would choose the option Jass and Ahzz are going to use. I think it's the wisest choice. Suuuure it does have the risk of being outed by your child in there

, but at least you're doing your best to raise your child as honestly as you can.

In the long run however I think it's the right solution.

I thought for the longest compromise with CD'ing meant me not wearing clothes or expressing myself in a femme manner. Instead I realize that's my not being me. That's not a compromise that's being what Darlene labeled as a victim. (I'm not sure that's how you meant it Darlene)

You all always humble me with your awesomeness.

Bravo for another 5 star thread.

Beauty

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:50 pm

That's not a compromise that's being what Darlene labeled as a victim.

Thanks Beauty, you hit the nail on the head. That is correct.

Love Darlene.

Violet · Post by **Violet** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:12 pm

I choose D. Not only is it important to encourage children to be tolerant of diversity and to love and accept all of what their parents are for their own sake; every lie you tell your child is poison that can destroy your relationship with that child. And yes, keeping who and what we are from our children is a LIE. It may seem a necessary evil but it causes nothing but pain. Better simply to let John do as he will and do your best to explain it to Emily, in whatever terms you feel the child will comprehend (and you can comprehend yourself).

Of course keeping in mind that I do not have an SO or a child, and do not intend to carry my damaged genes on into the future or contribute to the population problem. Also that I am completely out to all whom I care about, and any woman who chooses my hand in marriage would have to be completely comfortable with and even love Violet Nightshade as she and me are not seperable. That is the reality of my life and my thinking.

Other threads here have referred to the social stigma that members of a family with a TG in the household will endure. I empathize with this problem, but my take is, we will never as a society be free of the predjudice surrounding our truth of being until we as a society decide we are brave enough to face the light and force the normatives to accept us for who and what we are. Anyone who tried to bully my son because his father wears women's clothing, will find that they have chosen to pick on the wrong transvestite's child, just as anyone who has tried to intimidate harass or offer violence to me, has found that they chose the wrong transvestite to f&@k with.