It seems clear that many SO’s do not entirely support their husbands’ Cding, and I think we can all understand that the typical SO does not go to the alter with an image in her mind of the man she is marrying wearing a dress, a wig, and 6-inch heels. Still, when he finally does come clean, there undeniably is a decision to be made. Does she want to end the marriage? Does she want adopt a “don’t ask, don’t tell” position, allowing him occasional opportunities to dress—but not in any setting involving her? Does she want to participate with him on a limited basis, with some rules about where and when? Or would she prefer that he step completely out of the closet, dressing as often as he wishes, with both partners dealing together with any consequences?
Not being an SO, I realize that I probably do not have 20-20 vision from an SO’s perspective, but I think the wisdom of the four choices I have listed increases as we go from the first to the fourth. Ending the marriage would be an overreaction and surely would not be chosen by any SO who was very committed to her marriage. Regarding the “don’t ask, don’t tell” option, this seems too much like the “solution” adopted by women whose husbands cheat, and who are resigned to that. In this case, however, it might be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Think about it. If the husband gets to go out (say) whenever the wife is out of town on business or visiting relatives, where is he going to go to find a congenial setting for a crossdresser? Most TG-friendly bars are also gay-friendly, and some of the patrons are “TG admirers.” After too much alcohol, and too much obsessing over a wife he thinks does not appreciate him, this could be a risky situation, fraught with too much temptation. The third option is not bad at all, and might even be the best option if there is reason to believe that complete openness would harm employment or family relationships. The fourth option, of course, would be the ideal.
I am interested in whether the SO’s here, as well as the CD’s, agree with my assessment.
Is There a Best Answer?
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Jamie Ann
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Is There a Best Answer?
Take care,
Jamie Ann
Jamie Ann
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CJ
- Miss Diamond Goddess
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Hi all,
Jamie Ann,
Interesting assessment, no doubt. However, as we often hear from the SO's themselves, it's not so much the dressing that originally bothers them, it's their mate's relative dishonesty in not having come clean about their transgendered longings before the commitment. I think no proposed "solution" concerning the role CD'ing will play in a relationship can be formulated without first addressing the more fundamental issue that is that dishonesty.
There seems to be a strange but certainly understandable pattern that can come to hold sway in relationships where the husband crossdresses:
1. The man crossdresses. For whatever reasons, this is who he's always been.
2. This man harbours shame because of who he is.
3. This shame leads him to hide his true self--even from those he loves.
4. He thinks this is a part of him that either:
---a) will never need come to light in any of his relationships, or
---b) will diminish over time, eventually disappearing altogether.
5. For these reasons, he does not tell his SO about this deepest part of himself.
6. He marries, telling his SO he's hers, body and soul.
7. His SO finds out about the CD'ing, realizing that he never truly:
---a) was truthful about who he really was, and
---b) never really "belonged" to her, body and soul, after all
8. His SO then becomes angry, feels cheated, and lied to.
9. She begins to question everything else the relationship was built on.
10. Trust is damaged, sometimes irreperably.
11. Now, hubby says: "I'm sorry. From now on, I'll be true... if only you can accept me."
12. His SO struggles valiantly to accept not just the CD'ing but his longstanding dishonesty.
13. Seeing her struggle so, hubby withdraws into his own self, as has been his lifelong habit.
14. This withdrawal widens the gap that separates the spouses.
15. Communication falters, then ceases altogether.
The question is not, "Is there a preferable way to 'incorporate' the husband's (or boyfriend's) CD'ing into the relationship?" but, rather, "How close can husband and wife become? and how well can they talk, and listen, to each other so that CD'ing becomes incidental in their relationship rather than its constant focus?" As far as the CD'ing goes, I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that many women definitely do not have a problem with this (within reasonable limits). Trust, however, is another matter. I know very few women (if any at all) for whom trust, in the context of an intimate relationship, is a negotiable thing. It usually isn't. And this is what needs to be addressed--through the development of a healthy communication style--before trying to determine whether and when a husband or boyfriend can wear frillies and flounces.
Just my two cent's worth, anyway. This really is an interesting subject, Jamie Ann. Thanks for bringing it up. I'll be watching this thread, for sure.
Love,
CJ
Jamie Ann,
Interesting assessment, no doubt. However, as we often hear from the SO's themselves, it's not so much the dressing that originally bothers them, it's their mate's relative dishonesty in not having come clean about their transgendered longings before the commitment. I think no proposed "solution" concerning the role CD'ing will play in a relationship can be formulated without first addressing the more fundamental issue that is that dishonesty.
There seems to be a strange but certainly understandable pattern that can come to hold sway in relationships where the husband crossdresses:
1. The man crossdresses. For whatever reasons, this is who he's always been.
2. This man harbours shame because of who he is.
3. This shame leads him to hide his true self--even from those he loves.
4. He thinks this is a part of him that either:
---a) will never need come to light in any of his relationships, or
---b) will diminish over time, eventually disappearing altogether.
5. For these reasons, he does not tell his SO about this deepest part of himself.
6. He marries, telling his SO he's hers, body and soul.
7. His SO finds out about the CD'ing, realizing that he never truly:
---a) was truthful about who he really was, and
---b) never really "belonged" to her, body and soul, after all
8. His SO then becomes angry, feels cheated, and lied to.
9. She begins to question everything else the relationship was built on.
10. Trust is damaged, sometimes irreperably.
11. Now, hubby says: "I'm sorry. From now on, I'll be true... if only you can accept me."
12. His SO struggles valiantly to accept not just the CD'ing but his longstanding dishonesty.
13. Seeing her struggle so, hubby withdraws into his own self, as has been his lifelong habit.
14. This withdrawal widens the gap that separates the spouses.
15. Communication falters, then ceases altogether.
The question is not, "Is there a preferable way to 'incorporate' the husband's (or boyfriend's) CD'ing into the relationship?" but, rather, "How close can husband and wife become? and how well can they talk, and listen, to each other so that CD'ing becomes incidental in their relationship rather than its constant focus?" As far as the CD'ing goes, I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that many women definitely do not have a problem with this (within reasonable limits). Trust, however, is another matter. I know very few women (if any at all) for whom trust, in the context of an intimate relationship, is a negotiable thing. It usually isn't. And this is what needs to be addressed--through the development of a healthy communication style--before trying to determine whether and when a husband or boyfriend can wear frillies and flounces.
Just my two cent's worth, anyway. This really is an interesting subject, Jamie Ann. Thanks for bringing it up. I'll be watching this thread, for sure.
Love,
CJ
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Kyra
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Sally
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is there a best answer
Hi Jamie Ann,
I think there are just so many variations of the level of tolerance which wives can come to terms with regarding their husbands crossdressing wants and needs, that it's virtually impossible to set any guide lines. I think each wife finds her own level of tolerance, although the situation seems to change many times as time goes on.
Even marriages where the wife went into the union with full knowledge of her hubbys crossdressing prior to exchanging wedding vows seem to run into problems with the husbands CDing later in the marriage.
In the early days of a relationship when both of them are fully occupied with each other and the euphoria of unconditional love, the woman may well be able to superficially accept her man is a CD, but as the marriage goes through the stage where unconditional love is just a memory as the rigors of life have to be met from day to day, it may well happen that other factors in their lives may influence what she can or cannot accept in her day to day living.
Although most of my speaking has been done around the country on the TS circuit rather than Crossdressing issues, I've had discussions with many wives who said that at first when they found out about their hubby they thought that they would be able to deal with it okay, but as time went on the crossdressing issues became harder to deal with as their lives went through the various stages which we all experience.
One issue which constantly comes up is that wives say they find it hard to deal with the secrecy on a continual basis. Many say that they feel they could well deal with the issue better if they could discuss it with their girl friends or close family relatives, but having to harbour the secret makes them feel guilty too and they don't have a release for all their anxieties which build up within them as a result of having to keep 'the secret' and living with the fear of being found out. Not only the husband has to live with the fear of being found out by friends, neighbours, relatives or workmates, the wife also has to bear this fear day in day out, and some wives have told me that they fear their hubby may get to the 'don't care' stage and they envisage their whole world falling apart if he 'comes out' publicly.
I've often had women say too that as time goes on and their hubby's needs expand, they get to the stage where they feel they are in a three way relationship and that certainly isn't what they signed up for in the first inst. Peggy RUDD once said that the level of joy which a crossdressing husband feels (as she said this she held her hand above her head as an indication of the level) is so vastly different to the level of joy their wife experiences from it (she held her hand at waist level to indicate the wife's level of joy), but most wives being the women they are, seem to survive the additional pressure to varying degrees, of having to make the best accommodation they can to a marriage which they didn't envisage and don't prefer.
I can't see any easy answer which could apply to the majority of marriages as to easily incorporating someones crossdressing or gender issues into the marriage, as most women grow up without having come into contact with a CD. Granted there are a small percentage of women who are content with a CD partner, but in my travels I've mostly found that if you ask a room full of women if they're 100% at ease with their hubbys CDing, then only a smattering of hands are ever raised. I think each case has to be worked through by the couple on a personal basis. Honest talk between two people is a wonderful thing, but once one person loses the trust of the other it's no small task to regain that trust, especially with something as big an issue in every day life as a husband who crossdresses. There has to be give and take and the right balances found for each party, but I have for a long time thought that one of the biggest challenges to any marriage where the hubby CD's is the wife has no gaurantee that at any stage along the way that her hubby has reached the point where this is it, it won't go any further, and this becomes an unknown fact because we don't know ourselves at any given time that this is as far as it goes and if we can be honest about this fact with ourselves, we may come to appreciate better the difficulties our wives have with it all.
Is there a best answer? No, I don't think there is a best answer which we could apply across the board, each couple are unique to their own situation, but I do think that in most cases compromises can be found if both are willing, so that marriages can be kept intact.
My Kindest Regards,
Sally.
I think there are just so many variations of the level of tolerance which wives can come to terms with regarding their husbands crossdressing wants and needs, that it's virtually impossible to set any guide lines. I think each wife finds her own level of tolerance, although the situation seems to change many times as time goes on.
Even marriages where the wife went into the union with full knowledge of her hubbys crossdressing prior to exchanging wedding vows seem to run into problems with the husbands CDing later in the marriage.
In the early days of a relationship when both of them are fully occupied with each other and the euphoria of unconditional love, the woman may well be able to superficially accept her man is a CD, but as the marriage goes through the stage where unconditional love is just a memory as the rigors of life have to be met from day to day, it may well happen that other factors in their lives may influence what she can or cannot accept in her day to day living.
Although most of my speaking has been done around the country on the TS circuit rather than Crossdressing issues, I've had discussions with many wives who said that at first when they found out about their hubby they thought that they would be able to deal with it okay, but as time went on the crossdressing issues became harder to deal with as their lives went through the various stages which we all experience.
One issue which constantly comes up is that wives say they find it hard to deal with the secrecy on a continual basis. Many say that they feel they could well deal with the issue better if they could discuss it with their girl friends or close family relatives, but having to harbour the secret makes them feel guilty too and they don't have a release for all their anxieties which build up within them as a result of having to keep 'the secret' and living with the fear of being found out. Not only the husband has to live with the fear of being found out by friends, neighbours, relatives or workmates, the wife also has to bear this fear day in day out, and some wives have told me that they fear their hubby may get to the 'don't care' stage and they envisage their whole world falling apart if he 'comes out' publicly.
I've often had women say too that as time goes on and their hubby's needs expand, they get to the stage where they feel they are in a three way relationship and that certainly isn't what they signed up for in the first inst. Peggy RUDD once said that the level of joy which a crossdressing husband feels (as she said this she held her hand above her head as an indication of the level) is so vastly different to the level of joy their wife experiences from it (she held her hand at waist level to indicate the wife's level of joy), but most wives being the women they are, seem to survive the additional pressure to varying degrees, of having to make the best accommodation they can to a marriage which they didn't envisage and don't prefer.
I can't see any easy answer which could apply to the majority of marriages as to easily incorporating someones crossdressing or gender issues into the marriage, as most women grow up without having come into contact with a CD. Granted there are a small percentage of women who are content with a CD partner, but in my travels I've mostly found that if you ask a room full of women if they're 100% at ease with their hubbys CDing, then only a smattering of hands are ever raised. I think each case has to be worked through by the couple on a personal basis. Honest talk between two people is a wonderful thing, but once one person loses the trust of the other it's no small task to regain that trust, especially with something as big an issue in every day life as a husband who crossdresses. There has to be give and take and the right balances found for each party, but I have for a long time thought that one of the biggest challenges to any marriage where the hubby CD's is the wife has no gaurantee that at any stage along the way that her hubby has reached the point where this is it, it won't go any further, and this becomes an unknown fact because we don't know ourselves at any given time that this is as far as it goes and if we can be honest about this fact with ourselves, we may come to appreciate better the difficulties our wives have with it all.
Is there a best answer? No, I don't think there is a best answer which we could apply across the board, each couple are unique to their own situation, but I do think that in most cases compromises can be found if both are willing, so that marriages can be kept intact.
My Kindest Regards,
Sally.
Watch nature, because it’s our greatest teacher, it moves and flows and moves on again. We can never be free until we disengage, so allow life to flow as you find it. The way it is, is the way it is.
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Elizabeth
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1878
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 3:02 am
Hi girls,
I tend to agree with my sisters who have written that each circumstance is so unique, that it is just impossible to catagorize it. I agree with most of what both CJ and Sally said.
Having said all that. I have not heard it said very often, or by many others, but there is the issue of embarassament. I beleive that there are many SO's who really don't have a problem with the CDing, and in many ways it can add a spice to a relationship in some cases. As humans we seek unique experiences. And there are also many SO's who can get past the lie. Many times thier DH or BF is an honest person, and the need to lie about this is understood but the SO, and it does not change her opinion that her mate is still trustworthy. But I beleive there are a great deal of SO's who just can not get past the embarassment.
The embarassment of what thier mom will think, what thier brothers and sisters will think. What thier dad will think. What the neighbors will think. I beleive, and it is just my own personal beleif here, that for many SO's feel devalued by society the instant they find out. And they really are afraid of the "you couldn't do better than a crossdresser" syndrome. Perhaps they never hear anyone say it. But they know they are thinking it. "You couldn't get a 'real man' ". "Is he gay?". " "so? are you the man, in bed?". And on and on.
It's not the dressing itself. It's not the lie itself. It's all the implications. The least of which is that the SO's who stay with CDing men, must be either desperate, or have "issues" themselves. I beleive this is a primary reason for the rejection of the crossdreser, I beleive that many SO's don't own up to this. because they don't want to appear to be shallow, and they don't want to hurt thier DH's or BF's feelings by telling them they are ashamed to be with them, or associated with them.
And us crossdressers need to realize that just as we lose our friends, and our family, and our whole support system when we come out, so does the supporting SO. She is likely to lose everything we lose. Except there is one major difference. She don't need the Cding to feel complete. She has not had the anxiety of the secret, and the rejection. She stands to gain nothing, yet is expected to give up so much. In the name of loving and accepting us.
I can see why there are days when SO's just wish it would all go away. Us crossdressers have enough tear stained pillows to document all the times we wished it would all just go away.
I have gone the extreme. I have gone from a SO who not only did not accept it, but openly rejected it, to a SO who totally accepts it as a part of me, and embraces it. We have discussed what she has given up. And I won't speak for her here. But I believe there is no other way. To me, any compromise is an acceptance of bigtry. It is an admission that the crossdresser is doing something wrong and bad, and can control it.
As many of you know, I am a proponent of total acccptance. Anything less dooms the crossdresser to a life of inferiority, low self esteem, and the inability to truely love himself. And the continuation of the lie.
Love always,
Elizabeth
I tend to agree with my sisters who have written that each circumstance is so unique, that it is just impossible to catagorize it. I agree with most of what both CJ and Sally said.
Having said all that. I have not heard it said very often, or by many others, but there is the issue of embarassament. I beleive that there are many SO's who really don't have a problem with the CDing, and in many ways it can add a spice to a relationship in some cases. As humans we seek unique experiences. And there are also many SO's who can get past the lie. Many times thier DH or BF is an honest person, and the need to lie about this is understood but the SO, and it does not change her opinion that her mate is still trustworthy. But I beleive there are a great deal of SO's who just can not get past the embarassment.
The embarassment of what thier mom will think, what thier brothers and sisters will think. What thier dad will think. What the neighbors will think. I beleive, and it is just my own personal beleif here, that for many SO's feel devalued by society the instant they find out. And they really are afraid of the "you couldn't do better than a crossdresser" syndrome. Perhaps they never hear anyone say it. But they know they are thinking it. "You couldn't get a 'real man' ". "Is he gay?". " "so? are you the man, in bed?". And on and on.
It's not the dressing itself. It's not the lie itself. It's all the implications. The least of which is that the SO's who stay with CDing men, must be either desperate, or have "issues" themselves. I beleive this is a primary reason for the rejection of the crossdreser, I beleive that many SO's don't own up to this. because they don't want to appear to be shallow, and they don't want to hurt thier DH's or BF's feelings by telling them they are ashamed to be with them, or associated with them.
And us crossdressers need to realize that just as we lose our friends, and our family, and our whole support system when we come out, so does the supporting SO. She is likely to lose everything we lose. Except there is one major difference. She don't need the Cding to feel complete. She has not had the anxiety of the secret, and the rejection. She stands to gain nothing, yet is expected to give up so much. In the name of loving and accepting us.
I can see why there are days when SO's just wish it would all go away. Us crossdressers have enough tear stained pillows to document all the times we wished it would all just go away.
I have gone the extreme. I have gone from a SO who not only did not accept it, but openly rejected it, to a SO who totally accepts it as a part of me, and embraces it. We have discussed what she has given up. And I won't speak for her here. But I believe there is no other way. To me, any compromise is an acceptance of bigtry. It is an admission that the crossdresser is doing something wrong and bad, and can control it.
As many of you know, I am a proponent of total acccptance. Anything less dooms the crossdresser to a life of inferiority, low self esteem, and the inability to truely love himself. And the continuation of the lie.
Love always,
Elizabeth
-
Jamie Ann
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 334
- Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:10 pm
- Location: Athens, Georgia
Thank you, CJ, Kyra, Sally, and Elizabeth. There is a lot to think about in your comments, and I need more time to think about them. As CJ implies, crossdressers often are dishonest in the beginning, fearing that being honest will lead to being rejected. Clearly, SO’s have a right to be upset by the dishonesty. Still, what’s done is done. Looking to the future, the question is, “What do we do now?” I am reading your responses carefully, and need to think about them more before I can start to sort things out properly. Thank you all very much!
Take care,
Jamie Ann
Jamie Ann
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Tammy Lynn
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ok girls
i read some of the post. cj said something about women having problems with men wearing womens clothing if i read your post right cj an i'm sorry if i did read it wrong. here in odessa i may go to work dress but there are some my lady customers that dont like it. but i told them take of the mail clothes and put on the lady clothes an they asked what do you mean? well its like this doesnt were the same shirt that husband were like my family reunion had t-shirts for sale an if the man buys a shirt then he or she was wearing the same shirt an no woman who works in the mechanic field an they were the same pants an button up shirt that men were. an some of them tell me that that they dont wear men clothes so what i think i'm saying is that its ok for women to wear men clothes but its not ok for us to weare theirs. i think i heard a comment one time that we set bad examples toward women and i said well they need to stop wearing our clothes. i know there are some men who can not wear their own shoes. they have to wear ladies shoes or clothes and some ladies can not wear their own shoes they have to wear mens shoes or clothes . ok what about men born with both or woman.
[edited because topic not permitted on forum] we all have to be honest to our wives but they have to understand us first before getting upset at the cds, but friends an customers tell me i look great or nice pretty. see sometimes women jump the gun too much before they ever stop to think about it. i always remember 2 cor chapter 13 verse 5 judge yourself before judge others. i hope i got the post right.
janis
[edited because topic not permitted on forum] we all have to be honest to our wives but they have to understand us first before getting upset at the cds, but friends an customers tell me i look great or nice pretty. see sometimes women jump the gun too much before they ever stop to think about it. i always remember 2 cor chapter 13 verse 5 judge yourself before judge others. i hope i got the post right.
janis
Last edited by Tammy Lynn on Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.