What's the Big Deal?: CD's respond.

[Hope]

Oh jeeze guys...I'm afraid I have to agree it IS a big deal. The big deal is not discussing any of it before getting serious, or worse...MARRIED! I know it's hard. It was the second most difficult thing I've ever had to do. But in the end, it was the best thing I could have done.

I have been married twice. I discussed it with both before getting married, or even getting serious for that matter. The first decided it was fine, but turned out it wasn't really. Fine, that's fair. Unfortunately, beyond the CDing, we had about a thousand things that didn't work between us so....

My current SO was likewise informed before we really got serious. I assured her I had to tell her something and was afraid it would end our relationship but had to tell her. I did, she slept on it, asked the normal questions (gay? sex change?, etc.) and concluded ok....

Now, I know that was a long way from her really realizing what it all meant, but the important thing was communicating. And communicate we do....about everything, not just CDing. Gosh guys....it's a bi*ch I know, but as males, we have just got to learn to talk about stuff. I was lucky I guess, and finally figured out that if she askes a question about my choice of clothes, she isn't attacking...she's wanting to know why in the world any sane human would think wearing XXXX is fun! After I finally understood she really wanted to hear my thoughts, and I wasn't having to defend myself, it started to get easier. And son-of-a-gun, she taught me it's ok to discuss something as personal and repressed as I always kept my 'hobby'.

Well, hopefully we guys will start to understand more and more. The big thing I think (not being female, I'm probably opening my trap when I shouldn't) the biggest thing is keeping something so important to BOTH of you a secret. I never figured out the logistics of doing that anyway and the heartburn would have killed me.

But SO's, I hope you can understand the trauma your man feels, and has felt every day of his life. We KNOW it's not 'acceptable' and that we're some kind of PERVERT and blah blah blah. I'm not sure you can ever understand how WE loath the CDing drive and what it has done to our brains over our lifetime. It's TOUGH to talk about it. It takes a lot of stamina to finally get him to open up even a little bit. And even that may make him feel....I don't know....less everything? We men are a screwed up lot ladies. Sorry, but that's the way it is. We don't understand it, you don't, as my wonderful SO says, it just is so live life the best you know how....it's too short to miss it.

I'm lucky I guess. My SO supports me and although thinks I'm really silly sometimes, understands I'm as confused as she is about the whole thing. It just is. I love her dearly, and this support is only one of a thousand reasons why.

Good luck to us all.....we're all gonna need some of that, and a lot of talking.....sigh....

sorry to soap box....

Hope

[CJ]

Hi all,

Hope,

I moved your response to this new thread, as per Beauty's request that Jean's wish for SO responses only be respected. I hope you understand. Having said this, I have to say yours was a genuinely warm and very compassionate reply. Your appreciation for, and understanding of, what both SO's and CD's go through is a breath of fresh air. Indeed, it is a big deal.

Jean,

I understand your point of view. But I disagree with it, and I'll tell you why. Some of the SO's have touched upon this (here and elsewhere, and some more forcefully than others [see, for example, Kay's reply to your original "Big Deal" post]): the question of motivation is paramount. I think this should be cleared up. When I hear a CD complain, for example, that it's not fair that only women have the choice to wear whatever they wish (as in: "What's the big deal? It's only clothes, for cryin' out loud!"), I can't help but think that he's comparing oranges and apples. Yes, women will wear men's clothing. But you know what? Big deal! For them, it really is only clothing. We CD's, on the other hand (i.e., those of us who dress all the way and seek to "pass"), are putting on much more than mere clothing when we dress up. We're "wearing" a new identity, in some ways; we're trying to cross, and sometimes succeed in jumping over, the gender line. I'm not saying that's wrong. Hell no! I'm just saying this is far removed from what a woman does when she wears, say, a man's jacket or his boxers or what have you. This new identity (what Terri, for example, calls "the third person in the room") is definitely a big deal. I'll make a distinction here between CD's who dress fully en femme and those who merely occasionally wear assorted lingerie or underwear because I think it's connected to the intent of your original post. Yes, if a man just likes to wear pantyhose or panties (for whatever reasons), then I do believe it's no big deal. Even though, contrary to a woman's motivation in wearing boxers, say, it may be related to that man's sexual pleasure, it's still not a big deal. In this case, it really is just clothing. A man wearing pantyhose doesn't often wish people would start calling him Loretta (with apologies to Monty Python ). So, motivation is key. Add this desire for the expression of a new identity to the secrecy, hiddenness, and dishonesty that often accompanies crossdressing activities, and it suddenly becomes a very big deal, indeed, for an SO. I don't know if you can see that or not, Jean.

Anyway, you'll probably notice that I have nothing to offer in this post by way of a solution to making a big deal a little one instead. I really don't know what the best way to handle this is. Maybe, like much else in human relationships, it needs to be looked at on a case by case basis. I just know that talking about how we feel and what we're going through, as well as listening to what our SO's are saying about the way they feel and what they're going through, is a step in the right direction.

Love,
CJ

[Ahzz]

I have to disagree with you on the "transition" type. Wether the person has boobs on and a dress, or jeans and boots, shouldn't really matter as to who they are. Calling a person by two names is perfectly normal. Many people have a nickname after all. But if a person exhibits two distinctly seperate personalities, chances are, someone in a white lab coat is going to slap a straight jacket on them. This can be rather frightening to others that are close. Kind of like a jekyl and hyde bad dream.

Several times CDers have discussed "anima"s and whatnot. The general concensus that I've gotten , and what I've felt the entire time is that they are split curently because they're battling instincts vs societies double standarding of clothing on men and women(as a small example of the many contradictions CD'ers arein)

To me, this second personality is the overreactive emination of those motions that men aren't allowed to express as a "macho male".

Granted, some CD'ers may be doing this as a form of acting. That's fine and dandy, but let your SO know that's all it is. Just acting. If it's not, then you need to seriously think about who you really are emotionally and values wise.

The more the SO's bitch about, retaliate, gripe, and moan about and to their CDing guy, the longer and the tougher it's going to be for that guy to balance everything out and simply be himself instead of two distinct personalities.

Granted it's a royal pain in the backside to have patience a your guy finds things out for himself, but the reality is, he NEEDS your support to get things settled out. Geting upset and expressing jealousy, anger, and other negative emotions just reinforces his feelings that he's a really messed up pervert (which we all know and agree just isn't true).

So, my chalenge for you SO's to think about...
Is it tougher being seen with a fragmented personality person that needs help... or is it tougher BEING that fragmented, confused, scared person? Or is it split 50/50?

Me, i'm leaning towards it's tougher for the guy when the SO unloads both barrels on his backside at random intervals and for no apparant reason. The SO's at least know (or should know) who they are at this point. They aren't the ones exhibiting two distinct personalities. They should be capable enough to keep their own emotions under control and help out this person that they say they love.

So to all the SO's here that seem to be having a really tough time accepting things. Give your guy a chance. Give him some support. And stop peppering his backside every few days/weeks/whatevertimeframe with rants, raves, etc. I can practically guarantee he's already aware that you don't like it.

Oh yeah, I haven't seen much at all about hows and why's and support methods in the SO section. Just a bunch of gripes and "i'm so scared/confused" posts. So do yourselves a favor. Pay attention to and ask questions of those SO's that seem to be having no problems at all with their CDing guys.



ok, rant over. and no this is not saying the SO's don't have a right ot be upset or to gripe. I'm just saying that random blasts from your double barrel shotgun of grief/misery/pitty/fear isn't helping anyone. But feel free to continue it if it makes you feel good. We all need to vent at times.

[Kay(SO)]

Ahzz,

Good post. I definately think that my husband has the harder issue to deal with in being the CD'r. I always have. It's why I'm able to find the compassion for him that allows me to support him. It's why I'm still here with him actually. I know the difficulty it has caused him and how at times tormented he has even felt. He has sobbed in my lap and it's been heartbreaking to say the least.

As for the SO's blasting their men. I don't blast him about CDing I just vent about it here so that I'm able to discuss it with him after I calm down or learn or grow or sort through my feelings. And you may not have seen it but we post about how we are supportive, (just not lately). I know I have done many things to be supportive. We've shopped together (usually end of season sales!), I've helped him learn how to apply his beard cover (which I bought), other makeup, bought him wigs, jewelry, sewed him undies with hips and a new fanny, bought shoes (in fact every time I go shopping I find myself looking for shoes for him), have gone out many times with him, given him more confidence and esteem through my encouragement, and I've been physically intimate with him dressed.

All of that doesn't mean that I still don't have days when I simply don't want to hear about Cding or see it. Some days I just want it to not be in my face and I just want my man, dressed as a man, talking to me as a man, in my bed as a man. And some days I get agitated about him and CDing. So I come here to bitch about it. It doesn't mean that I feel that way all the time. That's one of the hardest issues for me to deal with. My feelings change all the time, like my moods. And I'm already on mood meds to stabelize them, heh, heh.

Anyway, just tossing my hat in the ring. The last thing I want to do is make my husband feel bad about CDing. He's felt bad about it all his life. I've made it my mission to help him accept himself, while at the same time I'm working on doing the same thing.

Thanks for the post. Good points and provokes discussion! I know that I wouldn't want to be in his shoes anymore than he'd want to be in mine. Well, wait a minute. He wishes he could wear mine. Just kidding. I mean it. I wouldn't trade places with him for anything. My point is, when I bitch, my intention isn't to negate his plight but to express my own feelings about my position.

Kay(SO)

[Ahzz]

Thank you kay. I wrote it latenite and was worried that I didn't say things the right way...

My contention is that the CDers do feel the prssure when an SO just goes off and doesn't say that it's just a rant, or a pressure release. What appears to an SO as just a rant or release in a forum can (and probably does in most cases) set things back a bit for that CDer. 8-( I guess you could say it's sort of like having a rant where your physically, or other challenged kid (not saying CDers are kids, just analogy) can hear you. While you may be well meaning, and it feels good for yourself, you really do have to be a bit more carefull about what you say and how you say it where the other can hear it that would be severely harmed or even devastated by it.

Maybe a second hidden SO forum is a good idea. Keep the original SO only open discussion where we can watch, and have a second one that's visible only to mods admins, and SOs for the rants. This way the CDers don't get all riled up when the SO's need to blow some steam and frustration. Obviously, the CDers need to understand also that the SOs do have a need to vent like we do. But not seeing it could be akin to the method some marriage counselors take. togeather session, and also solo sessions for each partner to let them gain insight into the problems that each side can't admit to in the open. It'll also serve to protect CDers that can take things the wrong way from doing so.

Just an idea. Some things really do need to be hidden from other groups at times. Just have to be carefull that one doens't retreat to only that hidden area. Fortunately I think we have enough bright SOs that can see when this happens and make their fellow SO aware that they are hiding.

btw, I also think that we are all a little TOO gentle in our pointing out of flawed methods of others of our kind. Polite, private messages to those that are slipping away, or going off in a bad direction should be used as apropriate IMO. Of course, i'm accused of being TOO blunt sometimes. *grin* but I look at it this way. People deserve the truth. Not some sugar coated candy version.

ok, off to the store... more thoughts to chew on.

[Virginia]

Ahzz,
Wow! Kinda a departure for you, huh?? I actually understood your post on my first reading, usually I have to read your stuff several times to understand what you are telling us, then again like you once said perhaps the female side of us is actually in control and only lets the male side think it has the "upper hand." That one has stuck with me since I first read it so perhaps I am not giving enough credit to your above posts. Anyway, I always look forward to your sage advice.
My response to the above is that I asked the same question I guess in a slightly different way: "What is so threating about crossdressing?" I have studied the various responses and from reading and studying about it, what I have been able to determine is simply "GG's (in general - not all but most) just don't get it!" Why would a man want to present himself, emotionally, attitudinally, and/or physically as a woman?? That they understand our "pain" is nice and they want to share our pain or try and understand it is nice. BUT. most remain on the rollercoaster as you said. At one time they are participating, then just accepting, then ignoring, then as you said we get both barrels. And a lot of us seem to never know where they are on their ride! How about our poor sisters who are hiding from everyone and live in fear of "getting caught?" Why are they that way? Because they know their spouse will not support them? Then you throw in children, family, jobs! We are a hellofva enigma are we not??
Keep doin what you are doin,
Love Ya,
Virginia

[Loretta Ann]

Good posts Ahzz.

What appears to an SO as just a rant or release in a forum can (and probably does in most cases) set things back a bit for that CDer.

The more the SO's bitch about, retaliate, gripe, and moan about and to their CDing guy, the longer and the tougher it's going to be for that guy to balance everything out and simply be himself instead of two distinct personalities.

And I agree with you.

However; there is an advantage to being outed, that can separate one from a lot of this turmoil. Once one has gone through being totally publicly exposed, there is nothing more for them to lose except perhaps their life.

So what others think or say to or about them no longer has the same effect on them. I do not know if it is possible to reach that place if one has not been put through that experience?

But for those who have it is not quite as big of an issue, because they no longer share that same fear.

I have chosen enough friends who are not disturbed by what I do, so that those who are do not matter.

That is one way of dealing with it.

Love Darlene.