Is it a Mental thing?

[Virginia]

This is directed at those of us who didn't tell our wives about 'our secret' before we got married.

If it's no big deal then why didn't we tell them before we married them?

Obviously for those who did tell before any commitment was made then it isn't such a big deal.

Well, I never told my wife mainly for two reasons. Firstly, I hoped it would all change and go away after I got married and secondly, knowing her as the person she was, her family upbringing and her background I believed she would never accept who or what I was and what I did, and I guess in my own selfish way, I wanted her to stay with me, whatever it took.

I was 100% wrong on both accounts, although for a time after we married I went through a period where the intensity was very much less, but it was always just ' sitting under the surface' and later when things became so bad for me, I told her the whole truth, after seeking advice and help from some of my peers. Even though it took about a year, she came to accept it more and more over time to where she was able to give me more support than I ever expected her to. We've had others stay at our house for weekends and she's found the interaction with them very educational and enjoyable. She encouraged me to take a greater role in TG supporting groups, political lobbying etc. We shop together and she's come to accept Sally as a part of our everyday life. Her main fears over the last few years have been with my transition and the eventual outcome on our lives and that of our families it would have, but all that has stabalised now that I've been able to accept that if I completed my transition, what I'd lose would far outweigh what I'd gain, so for some time now I've remained stationary. What I do stress though is that every day I take pains to let her see that she is the most important person in my life, and I let her see that every day of our life. Even the little things mean so much, it can be just a hug for no reason at all, or just a touch on the arm or a smile as we pass, they all mean so much without a word being said.

It may not seem a big deal to those of us who have lived with it all our life as we don't know anything different, but to a wife who goes into a marriage not knowing then I fail to see how it can't be a big deal. Finding out after the marriage that there is another side to her husband which she wasn't aware of beforehand would come as quite a shock, as it has the propensity to throw their whole life into turmoil. I think it's fair and reasonable to say that a man dressing as a woman is not on average what a woman is looking for when she chooses a husband. I think it's also fair and reasonable to say that most women grow up with little or no knowledge of Crossdressing or other gender conflicts, they are subjects which are not widely or openly brought up in general day to day discussions.

I've heard so many husbands say over the years, " I'm still the person she always knew, it's only that now she knows more about me, why can't she accept it?" But if we didn't tell her before any commitments were made, then we certainly aren't the person she knew when she made her decision to marry us, it opens up another whole side to our personality and it's easy to see that it is a big deal for her. It's no different to us making a decision to buy a house and after entering into the buy contract finding out that the house is on land which has been zoned commercial not residential, or us signing up to buy a new car and after entering the buy contract we find out the car doesn't have the features we wanted when we signed contract. The goal posts have now been moved, what we signed up for is completely different to what we got and boy o boy, wouldn't we jump up and down in a frenzy then.

In my travels attending various events, something I've discussed with many wives and SO's is if they think they would have still married their hubby or entered a live in arrangement with them if they'd known about their crossdressing or gender conflicts right from the start.
The most popular answer is that knowing their man as they do now they most likely would have, but plenty of women have said that if they'd known right from the start before they fell in love and became involved to the stage where they were making commitments, then in all liklihood they would have moved on, it would have all been too big a deal for them, too hard to handle, as it wasn't what they were looking for in a potential mate or husband and the complications it could cause with family and friends would just have been too hard.

So, for those of us who never told our good lady before the commitments were made, what WAS the honest reason for not telling her sooner or those who still haven't told her, then why not?

Kind Regards to all.

Sally.

Hi Sally,
I hope my comments will not detract from your thread. I don't know if they fit the responses you seek. I recently purchased a book" Transgender Emergence" by Arlene Istar Lev. It is evidently designed to be a teaching tool for phychologist, counselors, etc. I deals mainly with Transexuals and transgenderist and "gender-variant" people. There are numerous references to the varying understanding and misunderstandings of crossdressers, but "we" are not the primary thrust of the book. Point being that there is excellent information in the book. The thing that strikes me as I read it and the "footnotes" is the only recent understanding and studies that have and are taking place. I mean less than 30 years and very few then only with in the past 20 years has "science" began to really determine that "hey, you know there really may be more than two sexes out there!" Sex as compared to gender as compared to physical vs. mental vs. perception etc., etc., etc.
My point in responding to your query is that some of us perhaps did not know (me/Virginia) what a crossdresser was until not only later in life, but even had the opportunity to delve into it from an educational standpoint.
Society still considers us "freaks, perverts, mental cases, etc." And not having access to "scientific data." that is currently available that 10 -20- or God forbid 30 years ago crossdressing was treated as a mental illness, so what self-respecting crossdresser, wanted to approach their spouse with what was the then accepted norm with, "Honey, I have something to tell you - I am mentally ill! I am a crossdresser!" Even since I came out to my wife - only because I refused to live in fear of "getting caught" science has forged ahead with even more good stuff!!!! We are not mentally ill, in fact we have as I have expressed numerous times we have a "gift." That being for some of us to have a feminine prespective on things - the dressing - for some it is the only thing for others it is secondary to the development of the feminine personna that wells within us. Personally I don't know if I would have told my wife 28 years ago - I was not crazy then and I sure am not now (althought there are those that might debate that issue - but that is another story). But 28 years ago science would suport the fact that I should be put in the proverbial "rubber room," for wanting to dress like a lady!
Again I apologize, I hope I did not detract from your thread.
Virginia

[Sally]

Hi Virginia,

Yes, I'd agree with what's in your article. But even with all the material available these days most of the community seem to still believe any type of gender variance is a mental condition, and in one way they're right, but of course it's not the way they apply it, as you say, they believe we should be incarcerated in the 'rubber room'

I guess, in short what I'm getting at is that to those people who aren't as we are, then we really are a 'big deal' but that's only because of ignorance and lack of education about it all. There have been giant steps taken in the last 20 years towards public education in regards to people who have a gender conflict and it being a normal part of nature. It's a known and documented fact that nature doesn't always use the same blueprint for plants or animals, but it's the refusal of those in power to allow our children to be widely educated about this, so that they grow up without having a fear of it all. Fear usually comes about because of ignorance about something and misconceptions, rumours and falsehoods being spread due to lack of knowledge.

I think fear of rejection is one of the most pervasive felt reasons why we dont reveal all from the first instance. Even partial rejection can be very damaging, let alone complete rejection. I think it's the fear that short term rejection may well grow into long term rejection which also is responsible for a lot of us only telling part of the story and trying to pick out the bits which we think she might be able to accept more readily, but of course this only lays the groundwork for bigger problems down the track.

It's only 50 years ago that it was taken out of the Psychiatrists Handbook to treat young boys who liked to dress as girls by dressing them as a girl, making them look at themselves in a mirror then administering an electric shock to the child so that every time they wished to dress as a girl they'd not do so by the thought of the pain of the electric shock. Thank the Lord above we've come a long, long way since then.

Kind Regards.

Sally.

[Loretta Ann]

10 -20- or God forbid 30 years ago crossdressing was treated as a mental illness.

Hmmmmmm...Well Sis...Some 40 years ago I spent 30 days in a mental institution to evaluate whether or not I was mentally ill because of the fact that I cross-dressed. While there a woman psychologist told me there was nothing wrong with cross-dressing as long as I did it in private.

My problem at that time was that I did not believe her. I have come to regret that. Perhaps the problem might have been what we thought about it.

Sally I agree with you Fear is one of our major enemies.

Love Darlene.

[Virginia]

Well the (DSM) Diagnostic and Statistical Manul fo Mental Disorders." I would like to quote several passages from the book I am reading "Transgender Emergence."
"The sad truth is that the long history of psychiatric diagnoses, particularly regarding issues of sexuality, has been used for social repression, not empowerment or healing."
"....the DSM has along history of diagnosing oppressed people with mental disordres. Nelson (1998) sugested, "Medicine's nosology..... ought to consider not only the biology but also the political and social character of "diseases". "Civil liberties have only been granted to oppressed people when they have insisted upon them and when they have proven themselves competent to utilize them." ergo the Gay and Lesbian movement in the 70's got homonsexuality removed from the DSM as a mental illness.
What that comes down to is the issue that we as crossdressers have to deal with. As we know we are the (pardon the expresseion) the red-headed step-child of the "gender-varient community." Gays ans lesbians ask were we were when they were marching for their "civil rights" ?
Well we know where we were, right - "hiding in the closet." Ours is not an easy existence.
However we are gaining more and more support from the "medical" community, at lease we are no longer considered to be mentally ill nor are we a danger to society, it is just that society is just not ready to accept us.
Virginia

[Elizabeth]

Hi Virginia,

I just wanted to add that the DSM diagnostic criteria calls for:

DSM IV reads

To make the diagnosis, there must be evidence of clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning (Criteria D).

This distress can not be the result of the disapproval of society. Meaning the distress must be of ones own discomfort with ones self. Making a diagnosis almost impossible. This was a compromise made at the time of the making of the DSM IV. It is widely beleived this was the first step to their removal as a mental illness. Same with all sexual paraphillas which also have a similar diagnostic criteria. It is an effort by a growing faction of the mental health community to stop classifying things as mental illness, just because they break with social norms.

It is also widely believed that the next DSM will not include most of these things that are considered "sexual perversions". The large number of people who exhibit these behaviors indicates, like homosexuality, that they are not mental illness, but part of the human condition. Something all of us already know about gender dysphoria. It's not something wrong with us, it's not an illness, it's what we are.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Virginia]

It appears to me that a crossdresser's biggest enemies are twofold: 1. the church and 2. judges that legislate from the bench. Granted we have to deal with society in general but even that is waning and I have no doubt that we are making headway. However the DSM is still the "bible" so to speak as I know when I went to counseling (at my spouse's request and my inlaws) the claim was filed under family counseling and not as gender-varience. Insurance companys use the DSM in ways that it is not intended to be used, but on the other hand there is nothing out there for them to rely on.
Is is always good to know we ain't crazy!!!!!!
Virginia

[CJ]

Hi all,

The current incarnation of the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statitic Manual (DSM-IV-tr) is in the process of being revised.

Greater allowance will be made for Axis 4 conditions in so-called "disorders" with a social component. Gender Dysphoria (or Gender Identity Disorder) is one such disorder. That much of our significant and chronic distress is occasioned by what we perceive to be social intolerance is a given. What's less clear is how that distress ought to be handled. Here, the DSM doesn't have much to offer in the way of optimistic prognoses or treatments. There's a growing acknolwedgment among psychiatrists that, in this case, cultural and social factors will count for much in the possible relief of an individual's suffering.

A word of caution: even psychiatrists themselves don't always look at the world through "DSM-coloured glasses." They very well know that everyone, without exception, can find reasons to recognize themselves somewhere between the covers of the DSM. It's a tool, nothing else. It's amenable to change (as in, for example, the removal of homosexuality as a disorder). In that sense, it's not so much their "Bible" as is the CPS (the Compendium of Pharmaceuticals and Specialties, a comprehensive listing [the book is the size of a large phone directory, only written in much smaller print] of all available drugs on the North American market).

The DSM is especially handy, for instance, in helping psychiatrists distinguish between various "troubles." It's not meant to "box" anyone in, especially given the fact that it has a legal weight of zero.

I eagerly await the next version of it; I want to see what becomes of gender-related "disorders." (By the way, the DSM is, unfortunately, not freely available online; you can buy a copy at your local bookstore, for between $75 and $125 US).

Love,
CJ

[Virginia]

This is one of the main reasons that I love this forum!!!! We have resident experts who can translate into layman's terms what we as crossdreseer are dealing with - not only in our own minds but in trying to understand where others are coming from and hopefully to educate those whom we come into contact with that have an open mind to our trials and tribulations. I still think that "we" may be the next stage in human evolution. Granted there have always been crossdresser throughout history, but as we begin to understand this gift we have been given and how best to express it in a manner that is beneficial not only to us but to those we do interact with it can only be a good thing!!! I sincerely believe that we muct learn, study and share our "status" if you will as we grow in this gift and I KNOW it will only serve to benefit us and dare I say society!
Well I have darined this poor blonde's brain with that diatribe, so I am going shopping!
Love you girls with all my heart!
Virginia

[Caroline]

Hi all,

The current incarnation of the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statitic Manual (DSM-IV-tr) is in the process of being revised.


CJ

Don't hold your breath, the information I have is that DSM-V-TR is likely to be published "in 2010 or later".

Apart from that, I don't care what it says (if anything) about my crossdressing, since I feel good about myself and don't need external approval to do so.

[Caroline]

T I still think that "we" may be the next stage in human evolution.
Virginia

No doubt it makes you feel good to think so, but I regret that the' theory of evolution' does not support your view that crossdressing has anything to do with evolution whatsoever. Your views will therefore be dismissed [edited] by anyone who does have an understanding of the subject, and will also be dismissed by religious fundamentalists, who do not believe in evolutionary theory in the first place. What's more, on a purely personal level, I know that my crossdressing has nothing to do with evolutionary development whatsoever, and from my interviews with many other crossdressers, I know that they do not see that it is applicable to them either.

Having said that, I hope that my comments have caused no distress to anyone who reads them, but I felt that I had to clarify this small point..

[Virginia]

Hi Caroline,
Thanks for reading my post and taking time to respond. What you so eloquently responded to was simply a theory and the operative word is "may." The actually dressing is irreleveant, but what if a person (with out actually having SRS) could actually put themselves into the mental state of the opposite sex, totally and completely. The ability to feel, think. love, hate, reason as their opposite sex would - that would be incredable - but then again it is only one girl's theory.
Virginia

[Caroline]

Hi Virginia,

Thanks for coming back on that, with further clarification.

I now understand what you were trying to say regarding the experientiality of true empathy. Unfortunately, I took your initial words to indicate that you were talking about evolution per se, which concerned me because if you had been doing so, it would have left you open to criticism from those who accept the theory of evolution as a scientific fact, and even those fundamentalists who simply choose to believe in 'creationism' or 'intelligent design' as they now choose to call it (in order to circumvent US Court decisions).

Beauty has edited my post as she felt it was not supportive enough, so I would just like to make it clear to everyone that my sole reason for writing was to be supportive to both yourself and others. My fault was that I construed your reference to evolution too literally, and tried to indicate that such a reference could be reasonably interpreted by others in a way contrary to what you really meant to say.

In conclusion, I am guilty of a poor attempt to correct a statement in a post which I believed to be factually inaccurate, but the very fact that I wished to do so should be seen as a supportive act in itself, and not an attempt to undermine or criticise you, or anyone else.

Regards,

Caroline.

[Julie M.]

Hi Virginia,

Just wanted to say 'Hi'

I've missed you.

Steve joined a frat. He's been challenged by everyone with an issue. Now he's being left alone. I only wish he'd wrestle. He's so great.

You said you have had demons. Write me at julimarie@comcast.net. Friends need friends and you are a great friend.

BTW, if that offer to come visit is still open I'd love to take you up on it. I suspect layoff is coming up shortly and they say it's 2-3 months to go back to work.

Let me know. Love ya,
Jules

[DonnaT]

Julie, if you come to Virginia to visit Virginia you'd best let the rest of us Virginians know

[Beauty]