What is the pay off?

[Loretta Ann]

Hi all,

I was really quite surprised to read most of the replies to my thread entitled; What's the feminine side all about? I really did not expect it go that way, and I don’t want to change the way it has gone. So I have started this thread in hopes that we can talk about what I had hoped to discuss in the first place.

I am not interested in the things society considers to be exclusive to women. And I don’t mean things like it helps me to understand women better or it makes me a better person, satisfies my urges, or being able to cry, or whether clothes designed for women makes anyone feel more feminine.

I believe that many of the things mentioned above, and that posters have referred to in the other thread are merrily by products of what I am trying to get at here.

I am not interested in the definition of what it means to be feminine in this thread. What I am interested in is exactly what is the reason you all (we) need to dress in woman’s clothing? Like what is the pay off? As opposed to I don’t know God made me this way. The things that have been mentioned are not what drove us to cross-dress at an early age in spite of the reality that we all believed it was not the right thing to do.

Cross-dressing met (can meet) a need, a very basic need that all humans have. Some humans spend their entire life never realizing that they are missing something. It is only as this need is met that we are able to enjoy some of the things that have been mentioned in the other thread.

If I was created as a woman or with a feminine side, why does it take the clothes in order for me to meet that need? Why do I need to wear woman’s clothing to feel right in my own skin? Women were not created to wear woman’s clothing. That was decided by man. Clothes were made by man not our creator.

I believe the reason that wearing woman’s clothing feels so right is due to the fact that the way we feel is the way we were meant to feel, (not referring to feminine here) but something got in the way that prevents many men from feeling that way or in other words prevents many of them from getting some of their basic needs met.

So as the title of thread asks: What is the pay off? What does it do for us as opposed to what benefit this has on society? (Not that there is anything wrong with the benefit it can have on society)

Love,
Darlene.

[RikkiOfLA]

Hi Darlene,

Please let me be honest; I don't understand your post. You seem to be driving at something--a particular answer you want to hear, maybe? (If so, tell us what it is, and you'll doubtless find some agreement from us.)

There is always the standard answer--I dress because I like it. But that doesn't tell anything really. (If we did'nt like it, we wouldn't do it, duh.)

Clothing, especially women's, says something about the wearer. A statement that we'd like to emphasize--"Im sexy" or "I'm practical" or "I'm Batman" to give just 3 examples.

That starts to explain why crossdressers wear women's clothes, but most don't really want to look like typical women our age. We want something sexier, more glamorous, etc.?

In my case, my answers cluster around "this is me; I feel more comfortable this way" but I don't know that this is very typical.

Hope this helps.

[Anita]

Hi Darlene--
Since it's easy to get off track, I'll try to keep this very short.

Crossdressing meets some basic need in all of us, we can all agree on that. It may even be a need we all have in common, no matter what form our dressing takes. We don't know that for sure.

It seems like you might be saying that meeting this basic need could be done in other ways besides crossdressing, but that somehow that "other way" is not apparent.

We all gravitate toward crossdressing, because it SEEMS to be the only way to express this need.

And you're thinking, "If I can find the payoff, maybe I can trace back and see what other forms besides crossdressing could answer that same need."

And, as an added thought...if you can find that "alternative way," it might also serve to better define what the basic need is, too.

Is that even close?

[Loretta Ann]

Hi Rikki,

Thank you for your response. I don’t think that I am necessarily looking for a particular answer and/or agreement. It has more to do with what I would like us to look at.

Many of us claim that the reason we ware women’s clothing is due the fact that we were made this way. Do we also claim the reason we eat is due the fact that we were made this way? Or do we claim that the reason we eat is because we get hungry? Yes it is true that we were made in such a way that we need to eat in order to survive. But is it also true that we were made in such a way that we need to wear women’s clothes in order to survive?

With hunger being the motivator that drives us to eat. What is the motivating factor that pushes one to ware woman’s clothes? If we do not ware the clothes what basic need is not being met? You fill in the blank? _______________________.

I hope that clarifies my intent?

Love,
Darlene.

[Loretta Ann]

Hi Anita,

I did not see your post until after I hit the submit button. As you can see by my last post you are extremely close.

It seems like you might be saying that meeting this basic need could be done in other ways besides cross dressing, but that somehow that "other way" is not apparent.

Yes I believe that some men manage to get that need met in other ways, however I am not prepared to suggest that cross-dressers can get that met another way.

And you're thinking, "If I can find the payoff, maybe I can trace back and see what other forms besides cross dressing could answer that same need."

I am curious I admit that I have tried to determine how others who are successful in meeting that need accomplish it. But only for the sake of interest; because I do not believe that I can get that need met any other way.

And, as an added thought...if you can find that "alternative way," it might also serve to better define what the basic need is, too.

It might…but I had not thought about that.

Love,
Darlene.

[Jan W]

Darlene, you seem to be delving into our motivation for doing what we do. I realise that there is more than one answer to this and enjoy talking to others I am fortunate enough to socialise with and reading via forums to hear their perspective on this very issue.

When a person's motivation aligns with mine it is a nice warm feeling. It makes me feel that I am quite average and helps to make sense of it all. When our motivations clash the opposite is true - much food for thought - back to the old drawing board!

Riki makes the point that most of us don't want to dress as typical women our age. I do want to do just that and as such my motivation is to emulate the woman I would have been if born female. My friends who do dress young and or sexy seem to have different reasons.

The payoff for me is escapism via role playing and fantasy but as to the payoff for society I can't honestly come up with one except to say CDing is a benign behaviour that does not go out of it's way to hurt others and one that we seem to have little say in as regards participation.

Not much of an answer really but then I'm not sure there is one answer.

Keep up the good work searching and learning and when you figure it out please let me know!

[Loretta Ann]

I think you have given a very good and truthful answer Jan. One that I identify with.

The pay off for me…The reason I enjoy wearing woman’s clothing is due to the reality that it makes my body feel relaxed; all my muscles are soft to the touch. And I guess you could say that I feel sensuous. I dress down most of the time, because I do not feel comfortable in male clothing. And were I to dress to the nines continuously it would become mundane, and I would be driven to go further than I have gone in order to experience the escapism (or the thrill) I experience when I do dress up. The escapism is better than a holiday it restores my batteries. And I can do it when ever I please.

I do like to dress a few years younger than what I am, but have no interest in dressing sexy any more.

The pay off to society (for me) is that as my needs are met I am able to function in a more mature manner which enables me to contribute more to society.

Love,
Darlene.

[Cathy L. Anderson]

This is a really good question and gets right to core of why we crossdress.

Here are 'payoffs' I've noticed:

1. A feeling of 'bliss' associated with CDing. It's hard to describe. It's like what some people call a "flow state." Lacking better terms, I view it as a state where the right brain hemisphere is dominant. The right hemisphere (in a basically right-handed person) controls intuition, emotions, relationship-thinking. The left brain hemisphere, in contrast, controls language skills and rational intellect. Males, especially in Western societies, are heavily left-hemisphere dominant.

Words that apply to my feelings in CD mode: peaceful, blissful, more fully 'aware,' happy, open, giving, relaxed...

2. Related to this (I think), Cathy is is more sensual and sensuous. She feels much more pleasure in her body. My male side, in contrast, tends towards self-denial. The increased sensual awareness reflects it in many ways--from Cathy's being more open to various forms of sexuality, to her being more likely to spontaneously waltz across the living room. My posture and gait are different. I am 'lighter' and more graceful.

3. In CD mode I escape my problems, my usual ones anyway, for a while. To the extent that I spend time CDing, then I'm not not facing my fears and my flaws. (This is technically a payoff, because it reinforces CDing, but clearly not really a payoff.)

4. It gives me a kind of (false) hope for the future. I'm talking about when I start fantasizing (and for me that's all it would ever be) about changing sex or living full time cross-gender.

Must I CD to get these? Lately I think not; I need only imagine myself as a woman with sufficient itensity. The exception is 2--escape/avoidance. For that I get the most 'payoff' when I spend the most time and energy concerned with CDing. That insight has helped motivate a great reduction in my CDing.

Other possible ways to get same payoffs without dressing:

1. Engage in right-hemisphere activities: dance, listen to music, appreciate art, nature.
2. Sit in an outside cafe drinking some wine and noticing the beauty in people's faces.
3. Buy flowers and place them in your home.
4. Go shopping for a pretty and stylish Hawaian shirt.
5. Practice yoga or tai chi, or learn a relaxation technique
6. Take a massage class

Cathy

[Loretta Ann]

3. In CD mode I escape my problems, my usual ones anyway, for a while. To the extent that I spend time CDing, then I'm not not facing my fears and my flaws. (This is technically a payoff, because it reinforces CDing, but clearly not really a payoff.)

Hi Cathy,

I am not sure I clearly understand or agree with you? It is my opinion that we occasionally need a break from facing our fears and our flaws. Just as we need a break from things like work etc? So I think if we are able to keep our cross-dressing with in the proper balance. It is indeed a healthy pay off. In fact I think if done properly it can be meeting or dealing with ones flaws head on, as we will never be completely free of flaws, and will need a place (occasionally) where we can safely retreat. Cross-dressing can provide that.

But I do agree that if it is taken to the extreme it can be unhealthy. That might have been what you had in mind?

Love Darlene.

[DonnaT]

I am not interested in the things society considers to be exclusive to women. And I don’t mean things like it helps me to understand women better or it makes me a better person, satisfies my urges, or being able to cry, or whether clothes designed for women makes anyone feel more feminine.

I am not interested in the definition of what it means to be feminine in this thread. What I am interested in is exactly what is the reason you all (we) need to dress in woman’s clothing? Like what is the pay off? As opposed to I don’t know God made me this way.

The things that have been mentioned are not what drove us to cross-dress at an early age in spite of the reality that we all believed it was not the right thing to do.

So as the title of thread asks: What is the pay off?

To look at the payoff, I need to look at the beginning. At around 7 yrs of age I saw a young girl in my class playing with her younger brother and he was dressed as a girl, makeup and all. I saw this several time, although they tried to keep it hid. I don't know what it was, but I envied him. I use to watch her during class and immulate the way she sat, and how she placed her feet.

A few year later, I came across some things of my moms that were about to be tossed as I was cleaning the basement. Things she hadn't worn probably since she had been a teenager. A nighty, a black skirt and a peasant blouse.

I put the nighty on and it felt great. In a feels right sort of way and the tactile feel of the material. Wow, I thought, wonder what the skirt and blouse will feel like. So I put them on. I enjoyed them too, and even went out in the back yard to swing on the swing, remembering how the girls looked like they were foating in the skirts while swinging.

So the payoff then was a feeling of enjoyment. And I still get a feeling of enjoyment from CDing. OF course it must be some different kind of enjoyment than that that I get from other things, or else it is only a part of the overall effect if the satisfaction I get from CDing.

What I don't have the answer to is why did I envy that boy back then, or why did I put on my mother's clothes in the first place.

[Loretta Ann]

What I don't have the answer to is why did I envy that boy back then, or why did I put on my mother's clothes in the first place.

I don’t think it is possible to obtain that answer Donna, and have given up all hope of ever finding it along time ago. I don’t think that if we had the answer it would make any difference to us, because I don’t think it would change anything. At best I think it would serve to put us in a place along side of those who are severely handicapped, and as such are looked upon as weird by many. Not sure I would be prepared to present myself as being that way. I don’t think I would like it much.

And for me it is not required that I find that answer. What is required is that I find a way to live and understand myself the way I am, so that I don’t end up to far to one extreme or the other, and end up way out of balance with it.

Love,
Darlene.

[Gelinda]

Ladies:

I

[Elizabeth]

Hi Darlene,

I get a feeling of "well being", that so far I can find no other way to get. Once I knew of it, there was no way to stop wanting it. For many years simply wearing panties was enough to fulfill this need, and I am sure if my circumstance were different and I was not in a position to dress full time, it would still suffice.

However, being in a position where I can dress full time, I have this incredible feeling of well being almost all the time. It's like being bullet proof. There are so many times a day that I look down and see my dress, or my skirt, or my shoes, or my painted toenails, or my manecured fingernails, or catch a glimpse of my makeup or lipstick in the mirror and it instantly puts a smile on my face, if I did not already have one.

This is the payoff, I get to feel great almost all the time. And all I have to do to feel great almost all the time, is to not care what others think of me. I hope this is the answer you were looking for, as I have no other.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Loretta Ann]

I hope this is the answer you were looking for, as I have no other.

I am not looking for any particular answer Elizabeth, your answer is your answer and not any less important than anyone else’s. It is simply the way you see it. This thread is the second of three; I will be starting another thread shortly as I have been going some where with these threads. But I don't want to go there to quickly, as I want to bring others with me.

Love,
Darlene.

Gelinda,

I will not respond to your post in this thread as I am not excited about the kind of responses your post should bring appearing in this thread. It may result in a thread Hijack.

If Beauty wants to start a new thread beginning with your post, I would be glad to respond to you there. And if she does perhaps she could remove this part of this post as well?

Love,
Darlene.

[Gelinda]

Sorry I bother you. Gee