What is the pay off?

[Loretta Ann]

It is not a problem Gee. It not something I can not deal with.

Love,
Darlene.

[Gelinda]

What ever.

[Sally]

At the risk of being seen as repeating myself, I've said over and over that people, both men and women should be free to do what makes them happy as long as what they're doing doesn't hurt anyone, physically or emotionally. If there is emotional trauma being caused by our actions with anything we do then there's a need for consultation and compromise, of course this applies to anything in our life not just clothes of the opposite sex or associated items or actions.

If people are happy in themselves and their daily lives then that spreads not just to their personal life and the lives of those who love us, but the workplace as well, happiness is infectious and people perform far better as we know in a pleasant environment.

What is the pay off for me? Well as I've said before, the clothing is secondary to me, being accepted for who and what I am is far more important and when those around me who love me accepted me for that, it was a life changing period in all our lives so, so much for the better, it's hard to put it into words which do it real justice. Of course the clothing does 'round it all off', because the ground rules were laid down over a long time by society as to women do this and men do that, even if it's all slowly changing. For the good of my health and happiness I needed to make a public statement that I'm different to how the world wants me to be seen and the clothes make that statement without me having to mouth one word.

It should all come naturally to anyone to be their true self but of course this is made so difficult because our culture teaches us it's more important to be 'seen to be right' than it is to be genuine. Being 'the genuine article' is something which we all possess, but most people deny themselves the right to 'feel right' or 'be right' because most people have a prepensity to seek acceptance, approval and to 'fit in' with ' the herd'.

Just being ourself is something every person would love to be able to do, whether they belong to 'our world' or not, but the expectations of others and what we think we want, what we really want, what others would like and what we're capable of as to what's expected, can make life so frustrating and confusing which all causes us to be pulled in different directions. We all have difficult choices to make in our lives and as we act on these choices our character and personalities are developed, what we believe in may be different to what we do, so having said all this I can say that it's just lovely to be myself and the 'pay off' for me with the clothing is, not because of anything else except it makes a statement for me, that you're looking at the genuine me and not the 'manufactured product' the world would like me to be. Even if people may think they're looking at a real woman, what they think or know is really immaterial to me, but walking down the street in a skirt is another part of the pay off because I'm not being subservient to others.

Kind Regards,

Sally.

[Cathy L. Anderson]

It is my opinion that we occasionally need a break from facing our fears and our flaws...But I do agree that if [CDing] is taken to the extreme it can be unhealthy. That might have been what you had in mind?

Basically yes. Thanks for letting me clarify. As I mentioned, this has been a problem for me in the past when it gets to the point that I start believing I need to transition or live as a women.

Still, if it is possible for me to get the same payoffs (e.g., relaxation) by merely imagining myself as a woman, without crossdressing, then the extra time spent putting on clothes could potentially be a sign of avoidance, procrastination, etc. But I won't talk about this more since this is your thread and you're taking it somewhere.

Anyway, two more payoffs:

1. Learning about how women "tick"
2. Deconstructing socially-imparted notions of gender. I don't mean that in a heavy intellectual sense; just that as children we must be quite amazed and perplexed about what this gender thing is, which seems so important to society, and yet is so vaguely understood.

Cathy

[Loretta Ann]

Hi Sally,

That is a very interesting post you wrote: You claim that for the good of your health and happiness you need or needed to make a public statement that you are different.

For me it is more important that I acknowledge that for myself and let the world think what they want. If they want to think that they themselves are not also different than everyone else that is their loss. I don’t think it is possible to accept that others might be different without first accepting that ones self is different. I have built my community of friends from those who are not interested in being the same as society, and as long (as what I do does not hurt others) it is there that I have found acceptance and freedom.

The 'manufactured product' (I like that term) is something I hope to address in thread no 3. In fact I think you have just given me the title that I will use for it.

Love,
Darlene.

[Beauty]

Hi Cathy,

Sorry to just blurt this question out, but how does crossdressing help you understand how women tick? I think I'm reading it wrong.

Beauty

[Loretta Ann]

Hi Cathy,

Thanks for the respect. I posted the new thread before I read yours above. You might want to talk more about it in that thread? Please feel free to do that?

Love,
Darlene.

[Cathy L. Anderson]

but how does crossdressing help you understand how women tick? I think I'm reading it wrong.

I didnt' mean anything unusual--maybe I could have found a better phrase. I just meant it's helped me empathize with women. Things like how much effort they put into wardrobe, cosmetics, etc. Or even something like dealing with catcalls on the street.

A concrete example: years ago I might have gotten annoyed if a date kept me waiting while she dressed, etc. Now I wouldn't.

Cathy

[Beauty]

Hi Cathy,

Ok, I get it.

Thanks!

Beauty

[Bernice]

I've been able to dress much more since becoming unemployed. I've noticed some things. While I'll never be as eloquent or insightful as some of the intellectual giants on our forum, perhaps there is something to be gained by sharing my simpler observations of self.

I say I would like to be accepted for who I am. Yet, when I put on a bra, I fill it with something. That is obviously NOT who I am. Apparently, dressing involves more than just the clothes, though obviously I love the clothes. Apparently, I feel a need to have the equipment to nurse?

I don't dress as promiscuously as I did in my 30s. Given the time, I dress casually or formally, flats or heels, wear a nightgown to bed, do or do not wear makeup, or wig, and even do or do not shave. I don't dress to become excited, though that still sometimes occurs. I have moods. So, I conclude: what ever my motivation, it is more than any one of these moods can fully express.

I dream of being a woman. I dream of intimacy as a woman. But I stop short of GRS. And of course I love my wife very much. Does anyone in their right mind want to be a lesbian if they aren't one already?

Another self observation: given ample time to dress as a woman in a wide variety of ways, I never select pants of any kind, not even pantsuit or other feminine pants. Culottes on rare occasions, a bathing suit on very rare occasions, but not pants, not shorts, not ever, at least not in the last 17 years. Does this have meaning? I have no clue.

Do crossdressers dress they way they wish women dressed? Most women now wear pants most of the time. My wife hasn't worn a dress or skirt in over a month, even to her office job. Do crossdressers dress to fulfill a fantasy that at least someone dresses in a feminine way?

Believe it or not, there is a dark side to me, not appropriate for the forum. Anyone interested in discussing my dark side - as it relates to specifically to this thread and gender dysphoria - may PM me.

Now that everyone is shocked, I think I'll just slink on out of here.

Hugs,

Bernice

[CJ]

Hi all,

Good post, Bernice! Interesting observations. Some of them went to the heart of the matter, as far as GG's being unable to understand the fixation on clothing is concerned. For many of us, it is about more than just clothes. But here's the difficulty: when asked what that "something" is, we cannot describe it except by saying, "I just feel more myself." I guess that, for a GG, it can be a very frustrating answer, but it's also the truest one.

As for your having a dark side, well, I suspect we all do. I know I have. And, believe it or not, my dark side has helped shed much light on the entire person I am.

Love,
CJ

[Virginia]

So Cool! Why do we dress and why do we choose the styles we do???? Virginia's style as she describes it is basically "conservatively sexy!" However, she did post several pictures on the forum and received an interesting comment, something like. "love the white polka dot blouse, but isn't the skirt a bit long?" hell, it was up to my ying yank! The responder was being cute, I know. but my T/G friend Brandi commented to me as well that that was just not Virginia. On the other hand, assuming that Virginia is the woman I think she is and knowing a bit about GG's sometimes they want to dress "sexy." Do we admonish them for that - I guess in some cases we do, but is it not their right! I think so, so Virginia is just following that instinct! Would she wear that to a club, maybe! To a movie or restaurant? NO WAY!!!!! first I still consider myself an ambassador for all my sisters and I do not want to do anything to embarrass them. On the other hand if I am driving over to Brandi's house and I have on a mini skirt, heels, low cut blouse and I stop in traffic next to truck and I just know the guy is checking out my legs, etc., I'm sorry if I offend anyone but I like it!!! but "Hammer's" song begins playing in my head: "Can't touch this!!!" Am I a "tease?" don't know, maybe. Did I take this particular route to Brandi's house in rush-hour traffic (such as it is in Roanoke? ) just to see if I can get noticed? Perhaps! Is it wrong? I did not make him look at me and drool well I did make him drool . Am I a sick, twisted, woman!!?? - Don't answer that!!! All I can sya is that when I stand in front of the mirror and see Virginia, I am proud of her and as we say we are responsible for our own happiness and she definitely brings me happiness!
Love ya all,
Virginia

[Bernice]

I've been studying the whole gender thing - reading some good books at the library. Well, OK, actually I check them out from the library and then take them home to read, but that's not my point.

In My Husband Betty, there were points made about who can wear what. The author really knocked me for a loop when she pointed out that NO woman (GG) can really wear what she wants - not in today's society. Anything she wears will be subject to potentially intense criticism, and she may face even worse consequences for her choices. Some may say it is too sexy or promiscuous. Others will say it is not feminine enough. A woman today has to walk a very tight line and dress to please whomever she expects to confront that day, and hope for the best. For better or worse, perhaps people pay too much attention to what other people wear.

I've stopped criticizing how my wife dresses. If I can't say something positive about what she is wearing, I just say nothing.

And, I've stopped whining about what I can successfuly wear in public. At home - in the closet so to speak, I can wear whatever I want. The grass is greener on MY side.

However, other titles have given me pause for remaining in the closet: Unseen Genders, Tansgender Warriors, and The Apartheid of Sex.

Hugs to everyone,

Bernice

[Cathy L. Anderson]

Hi Bernice,

The author really knocked me for a loop when she pointed out that NO woman (GG) can really wear what she wants - not in today's society. Anything she wears will be subject to potentially intense criticism, and she may face even worse consequences for her choices.

Your comment reminds me of a saying of Benjamin Franklin: "Eat to please yourself, but dress to please others."

My experience is that a certain type of really *classy* lady instinctively knows this. She doesn't see others' impressions--which certainly do exist--as a burden, but as an opportunity to create a favorable impression and positively influence others.

Anyway, glad to see you're doing your homework. You set a good example!

In addition to the other titles you mentioned, may I suggest you consider something by June Singer? You might find her work very interesting.

Cheers,

Cathy

[Virginia]

I am certainly glad that Dr. Anderson and Bernice sort of revived this thread. I went back and reread what I had written and what Loretta original "question" was and although I addressed "the edges" of it, if I may elaborate. For me, and I have noticed several of my sisters here have addressed the same issue, dressing is actually secondary to the evolving of the feminine characteristics that are manifesting themselves in me! (Can't speak for anyone else) By my interpretation of Dr. Anderson's treatist on the three stages, I would like to think that I am in the third stage. I, like those of us who choose to evolve to the third stage, and PLEASE - there is nothing at all -NOTHING AT ALL WRONG with not leaving stage one or two; where ever you are comfortable.
My point being that when I dress, yes I love it, the feelings, the smells, the actual senses, but that is what it does for me, it enhances my feelings and desires to furthur adapt those feminine characteristics that I love to share with others, en drab or with Virginia! What I get out of it is the evolution to grow in the female characteristrics of love, understanding, empathy, all the "touchy - feely" things that make up the beauty (as I see it) in the feminine personna.
Love you all!
Virginia