Having trouble-any SO advice?

Nicole Pearce · Post by **Nicole Pearce** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:57 pm

Hi everyone-

I don't write much, but I do get a lot from this forum. Right now I need some advice, and any I can get from an understanding SO would be appreciated.

A little about me in a nutshell- Knew I was different about age 5. Put on a dress and thought 'Where have these clothes been all my life ?'

Tried to grow up as a typical male, and probably succeeded to those around me. Was a jock in high school and went on to college with a college scholarship. All this time, I would dress whenever I could. From a huge religious family and could hardly ever have time to dress- BIG FRUSTRATION!

Met my spouse in college- fell in love- but never really knew how to treat her (she was my first ever girlfriend). I always felt out of place as the guy in the relationship, but I faked my way through, and married her (thinking my desires would go away yada-yada-yada)

We have been married almost 26 years. We have 3 wonderful kids. I couldn't tell her until our 17th year of marriage (couldn't stand the hiding anymore.) She was somewhat accepting (thinking it will go away, or never really amount to much.)

My desires have worsened (big shock! ) and I find myself wanting to be Nicole all the time. Of course I can't, (due to family responsibilities), but it hasn't helped my wife cope. She is mourning my death (so to speak) and has mentally divorced herself from me. We now sleep in seperate rooms (her idea- can't stand my shaved body) and have not been intimant for a long time and feel we never will again. I do not dress in front of her (though she has seen me dress, and was ok with it for a while-I have never pushed it on her)

We don't fight about it-she claims she understands that I can't help it, but she is distancing herself from me, and it is literally killing me. She is such a great person. She is and has been my best friend ever since we've been together. I fear our relationship is falling apart, and I don't know what to do. I have suggested she go for counseling, or talk to other SO's in her position. She thinks it won't help. Maybe if some of you could respond to the situation, and I could quote you in an email to her so she could see that she is not alone, and there are others like her.

I don't want to lose her to this (even though there is nothing I can do to change my self). We have talked about getting a vacation home that I could go to once a month. Not sure if we can afford it, but it would help.Is there anyone out there who has been in a similar place, and can give some much needed advice? I would so appreciate it. Life is so unfair sometimes. Sorry this is so long- thanks for reading it-

Nicole (aka Kristi)

Carolynn · Post by **Carolynn** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:56 pm

Hi Kristi/Nicole.

I am not real sure what you are asking for here, though I am aware you have specifically asked for SO input. I am not an SO, but what I am is a person coping with GID (Gender Identity Disorder), also sometimes referred to as GD (Gender Dysphoria). GD is more likely to describe most crossdressers. Strictly from what you have written, brief though it was, you sound like so many of those of us that have trod the path of gender confusion for a long time. But, I am not at all saying you are a transsexual. From your history and your comment about responsibility to your family, you sound more like you are questioning, and I would urge You to find a therapist for yourself, and get an idea where you need to go with Nicole/Kristi, and maybe then urge your wife to have a therapist too. But sending her to one and you not going is not likely to do the trick.

Talking with a therapist does not mean you are TS, it doesn't mean you are weird, it doesn't mean you have something wrong with you. All it means is you are facing a depressing impasse in your life, and you need some help getting through the block. There are a lot of ways of coping with GD, and even GID. The people on this site are very supportive, and a few have first hand knowledge about counseling and it's effectiveness. I hope they will add to this post and encourage you to find a way to look at what you want and need.

All my best, Carolynn

Honey(SO) · Post by **Honey(SO)** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:15 pm

Hi Nicole,
I am a wife, married for 31 years now. I walked into our bedroom about 12 years ago to find my husband fully dressed in my clothing. I was shocked to say the least. I did try to understand, but we never really talked much about it all and this being before internet for me i never imagined there was anyone else in my position who could help me. I reached the point where it just all pissed me off and my husband just kept it to himself.
Our marriage did not suffer as yours has but there was always that subject laying in the background.
About 18 mo ago my husband sent me a rather long letter telling me his whole story, he gave me a couple of websites that had alot of information that really helped me understand. It was a turning point for us.
Alot of very long talks. he answered all my questions and addressed my concerns. We took it very slow and of course had our ups and downs.

Something that helped me so much was joining a group that was only women in relationships with CD's. I could ask all the questions I wanted, even the really hard personal ones. And I found out there are lots of women just like me. It does help so much to have someone to talk to, for you both.
Some counseling would probably help, but she has to want to go, as should you both.
Do you both want to continue on the path your on, or make some positive changes?. Try to work out some compromises with each other, both of you giving and getting what you need. At the point you are right now you are both going to have to work hard to get back to a better relationship, almost like starting over.

Your welcome to PM me if your wife wants to talk or have more information on the SO groups.

Honey (SO)

Post by **DonnaT** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:40 am

Nicole,

As Honey mentioned, you may need to start over. Doing those little things that helped you win her love in the first place. Sending her flowers, asking her out on romantic dates, etc.

If your lack of body hair is all that is standing between you being intimate again, then grow it back. I've done so. Don't particularly like it, but loosing her is much much worse than having a hairy body. We did compromise, however, and my underarms are still hairless.

In the meantime, if she refuses to talk to other SO's (such as those here) and if neither of you have read it, I would suggest getting Helen Boyd's "My Husband Betty" and reading and discussing the first 4 chapters - one chapter at a time.

Kay(SO) · Post by **Kay(SO)** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:43 am

I have but one suggestion. Somebody should let you read the posts from the SO's section under the recent topic of "what would happen if he wanted to dress full time."

I know if my husband told me today that he needed or wanted to spend more time expressing or living as his feminine self I wouldn't stay married to him. But, that's just me. He has to do what he needs to to make himself feel happy and whole but I do not want to be married and in an intimate relationship with him at that point. I realize it's not his fault that is who he is, just as it's not mine for how I feel. I know that it would hurt him. But it would hurt me as well and be the end of our marriage as I knew it. It would also tell me that what we shared all along has been BS. So I might even be a little angry. Not at him but at how things are. I thank God every day that my husband doesn't ask for more.

Kay(SO)

Nicole Pearce · Post by **Nicole Pearce** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:08 am

Thank you all for responding. It is just a difficult thing that hopefully time will heal? I have been to a therapist (not a specialist yet) but she is very good. She figures I am TS. My wife went one time, and that's when I found out she did not want to sleep with me anymore. Boy, did that hurt. It came from out of the blue to me. She did not want to go to the therapist again-though I encouraged her to.

I can't imagine growing my hair back- it truly disgusts me. I would hate to have to choose, plus I'm not sure that would be enough at this point. We truly love each other. How do other couples work it out at this stage of the game???

Kay(SO) · Post by **Kay(SO)** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:54 am

The sad truth is that sometimes they don't and have to settle for friendship. I'm sorry for you pain.

Kay(SO)

RikkiOfLA · Post by **RikkiOfLA** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:42 am

Dear Nicole,

There are situations where advice is needed and can be given. Those are the relatively easy situations and, as many people know about me, I love to give advice.

Then there are the situations where advice is sought but, the situations are beyond advice. That is where counseling takes over. The difference between advice and counseling is that counseling is letting the advice-giver discover their own best course, possibly guiding them in the process.

That describes your situation, girlfriend.

And I'm not as good with this second type of situation. I want to rush in and give advice. I don't put it gently enough. But I'll try....

You say that the two of you love each other. I'm sure you care for each other. You doubtless liike each other. I'm sure you've had some great times and have wonderful memories.

And all of that is good; but that is not quite love.

Love is (IMHO) the willingness to put the relationship, and the other's needs and desires, before our own. That means when a spouse draws a line in the sand, we don't cross it. When we need something the spouse can't tolerate, we talk, and we talk, and we talk.

And one of three things happens.

Most desirable thing to happen, of course, is this: We find, somehow, a compromise that can work. One or both of us restates our needs and limits in a new way that makes compromise possible. (By restate, I don't just mean a verbal retelling, but rather the realization that we can get our needs met in a slightly different way that the other can accept.) Or we have a change of heart about something we long held as non-negotiable. Or the circumstances arise where a compromise is now possible. However it happens, a light breaks through into the situation. Compromise is seen as possible, and we grab it!

The second thing that can happen is that nothing ever gets resolved. We keep talking. For years. We have an unresolved difference of needs. We keep talking, and in the meantime, we are careful not to do anything that would violate the other person's trust. If it weren't for love, this could be seen as an unhealthy situation. But the love is an end in itself, a higher end in fact (at least according to the lovers). The love takes on a life of its own. The unmet needs lie there, not quite dormant, like some great untouched sacrifice being offered for the sake of the love. The love becomes stronger, because the lovers are keenly aware that they have sacrificed greatly for their love. Sometimes a compromise eventually happens, sometimes not. In either case, the love grows stronger over the years. If the lovers ever violate the trust, even accidentally, they retreat when they realize what has happened. The sacrifices are never one sided. There is a beauty to this kind of love, that shines through the pain of the unresolved needs. The pain makes the love stronger, and the trust greater.

The third thing can happen is that love sometimes fails. One or both of the couple just takes what they need, realizing that they have found something that is more important than the relationshp, or the needs of their lover. That happens, sometimes. We are not perfect, and our love is not perfect. But I'm not sure that is love anymore. It is certainly not the all-surpassing love. It is rather one of many competing needs and affections that make up life. It is realistic and flexible. It has some strength, but that strength has limitations. As long as the couple is aware of the limitations, the ralationship is useful. It can provide warmth and a sense of belonging. Like a sandstone cliff, it can be beautiful and have some veins of real strength to it. But like a sandstone cliff, it also has areas that are crumbling. And unless those areas are clearly understood and carefully and sensitively dealt with, there is the risk of collapse.

Virginia · Post by **Virginia** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:42 am

Hi Nicole,
I can not add much to wht your sisters have already said - I am in the throws of a divorce after some 28 years. You two have been married long enough to know what is going on. As my sister Rikki said, one of the options is to communicate, directly or jointly with a counselor and hopefully with each other. However, sometimes (and if you have read osme of the other posts here in the past few days) it just is not going to work and you have to prepare for that potential reality. You have to like Donna, ask yourself, just how important is Nicole to you??? Are you willing to comprimise and to what extent?
Good luck, hope my sisters have helped you and you know we are here for you!
Love,
Virginia

Cathy L. Anderson · Post by **Cathy L. Anderson** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:49 pm

Kristi,

Let me pose a hypothetical question.

Suppose you decided to cut back on crossdressing. Or even to never crossdress again. What do you think would happen? Do you think you would go crazy? Experience overwhelming stress? Be utterly miserable? What?

Cathy

Nicole Pearce · Post by **Nicole Pearce** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:46 pm

Hi Cathy-

I would go NUTS!!! I would not be able to handle it. I am currently on anti-depressants and t-blockers due to my condition. So, to put it bluntly- I could never cut back/give it up-it's who I am and who I have always been...and it is so unfair that I would have to choose between this condition, and my wife. What a screwed up deal...

Nicole

Dixie Darling · Post by **Dixie Darling** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:18 pm

Nicole (aka Kristi),

It's often been said that misery loves company. That being the case - MOVE OVER!! I know that you had originally requested information and opinions from the SO's here, but I thought you might like to know that there are a few CD's (well, at least THIS one) who are in much the same circumstances you find yourself in.

My situation is very similar to yours. I've CD'd all my life (closeted) and like you, there came a time when I just couldn't stand the secrecy and sneaking around any longer. It wasn't fair to my wife and it wasn't fair to me as well, so I made the decision to tell her about me. I think that at the time she'd suspected it all along, but had resolved it to a 'don't ask - don't tell' scenario.

Without going into a lot of details I gave her a large amount of good quality documentation about crossdressing that I'd managed to put together over a long period of time. When I gave it to her I also had a six page letter on top that I asked her to read FIRST, then look at the rest of the information while I was at work and she was alone so she could retain a lot of what she read. After having no further conversation about the matter several days later, I brought up the subject again. Any questions I asked her were responded to with curt, short, answers and were an indication to me that she didn't want to discuss the matter any further so I didn't press the matter.

However, after several days turned into several WEEKS without any further conversation I attempted to bring it up again with the same results. Although I've never considered that I NEED any kind of counseling (since I accepted myself as a lifelong CD many years ago) I offered to go to a professional strictly for her sake providing that whoever I went to was experienced in working with crossdressers, AND that she go with me so she could hear exactly what was said in the therapy sessions. Oddly, this suggestion was ALSO rejected and I think it was refused partially because she didn't want to hear what she believed the therapist/counselor would have to say. Another reason was that she was almost paranoid that by going to a professional and exposing my secret to them it would somehow "get out" and everybody would know about it. Her theory is that the records of the visit would somehow fall into the hands of some processing clerk somewhere that recognized one of us and they'd start spreading rumors.

My NEXT move was to suggest that we go talk to a minister who was familiar with crossdressing. Same results. When that failed, my final idea was to try to persuade her to meet some other couples in which the husband was a heterosexual crossdresser. This was also refused with the comments that the other couple would, of course, be biased and it would be three against one, also that she had no desire to meet any of "those people".

It's also important to point out that as of the night I told her, intimate relations ceased entirely and have remained that way to this very day. She claims that it's because she THINKS that I imagine myself to be a woman in bed and she can't deal with that. I've NEVER imagined any such thing and in fact she'll admit that she's never seen me act that way either.

As I said, my situation is smilar to yours in many regards and yet you've apparently been able to enjoy SOME degree of tolerance/acceptance. My wife has never seen so much as a picture of me enfemme - let alone meeting Dixie in person so she has no idea as to what my femme side is like at all - in person OR in actions. Her "mental picture" of my femme side (from what I can tell) is about 180 degrees away from actuality. Furthermore she has made it very clear that she doesn't WANT to see anything of me enfemme, claiming that it might "burn an uneraseable image" on her mind that she couldn't ever get rid of.

Anyway, you had originally asked if there was anyone in a situation similar to yours so I just thought you'd like to know that, yes, there IS!!

Dixie

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:48 pm

Hi Dixie,

This is among one of the best posts I've ever read since I've been here. Thank you sooo much for sharing what it can be like to tell your wife and the troubles some may suffer. You are so brave. Though you may not feel you are I do. Thank you, thank you, thank you for posting this!!!

I do have a question? Would you not tell her if you thought she was going to react this way?

You, Dixie, are love to the 100th power.

Beauty

Dixie Darling · Post by **Dixie Darling** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:32 pm

Beauty,

I appreciate your kind comments even though I don't feel as though I'm any more "brave" or "special" than the next person.

To answer your question, in hindsight I'm not sure just WHAT I would do concerning telling her. It get's complicated when one suspects that their wife already knows that something's different. NOT telling could lead the typical SO to have all kinds of things going through her mind. Anything from an illicit affair to gay tendencies come immediately to mind. BTW, that is NOT meant to discredit those in our midst who ARE gay - just that in a typical heterosexual marriage where one partner is a crossdresser, being gay isn't the norm.

NOT telling would still leave me very uncomfortable in knowing that my wife doesn't know ALL of me and that would seem unfair to her. At the same time (and knowing what I know now) not telling might have spared both of us a lot of headaaches. In many ways I'm glad I told her when I did since at the very LEAST I tried to show her that I wasn't trying to hide anything any longer. As any CD who has ever come out to his wife will tell you, it's a totally gut wrenching experience and one of the hardest things a crossdresser would ever have to do. It's really a disappointment that most GGs don't REALIZE how hard it is to "bare one's very soul" to their partner only to have the experience treated with little or no compassion for what it took to bring it about.

Dixie

Virginia · Post by **Virginia** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:45 pm

Wow! Dixie, I could put my name where yours is and have almost the same story! My anima "erupted" a lot later in life, but I almost immediately came out to my wife and like you, the bedroom became an ice box! I went to counseling twice and the counselor basically told me -hey, I don't see any problem, you like yourself, you like who you are, you evidently have no intention of even trying to change - Go forth and do good! We as a couple even went to a different counselor for 12 -13 times and (I have the notes) we would spend about 3 -5 minutes each time discussing my CD'ing and the remaining 55 minutes on her self-esteem, and her mother. Aside from her brain operation back in December, in February she moved out and in with her mid 80+ year old parents and we are currently in the throws of a divorce. The reason, according to my daughter, is that my wife things I am too tight with "my" money. The fact that she was sleeping with our son (nothing sexual - I hope) up until he was about 10 and that her father, a retired minister is probably a crossdresser just lifts the old adage that "we all have our crosses to bear!"
Aren't we all having fun now, but my postion is that at my age life is to short not to make yourself happy and Virginia makes me very happy as I am sure Dixie does you! I think you are very active in "our movement in am I right? Carolina!
Girls - just enjoy your "Magical Mystery Tour!"
Love,
Virginia