I guess I'm ok with this practice of referring to oneself in the third person, though - in small doses, at least.
-Celia
Third Person Talk and Why It Drives Me Batty
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Celia
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Steffie
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Elizabeth
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Hi Beauty,
I just want to say that I am in total agreement with everything you said. It absolutely drives me bananas. It is not a critisism, just a peeve. I have personally stopped myself from writing this thread a jillion times. I guess it was my training in writing speeches, essays and other documents where it was drilled into my head not to refer to myself in the third person unless I was dead.
I think perhaps some of our sisters may be missing the lightheartedness of your post, but it is not lost on me. I hate to keep quoting Seinfeld episodes, but it reminds me of the episode where the guy, "Jimmy", refers to himself in the third person and not only drives Jerry and Elaine crazy but also causes confusion as to whom he is actually referring to. Then, George decides to emulate him and starts referring to himself in the third person.
I understand the context of how my sisters here use third person as a way of describing thier "em femme" self and see how they see themselves as seperate personna's and indeed perhaps separate parts of themselves.
Having said all of that, it still drives me insane and everyone should stop doing it right now!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
Love always,
Elizabeth
I just want to say that I am in total agreement with everything you said. It absolutely drives me bananas. It is not a critisism, just a peeve. I have personally stopped myself from writing this thread a jillion times. I guess it was my training in writing speeches, essays and other documents where it was drilled into my head not to refer to myself in the third person unless I was dead.
I think perhaps some of our sisters may be missing the lightheartedness of your post, but it is not lost on me. I hate to keep quoting Seinfeld episodes, but it reminds me of the episode where the guy, "Jimmy", refers to himself in the third person and not only drives Jerry and Elaine crazy but also causes confusion as to whom he is actually referring to. Then, George decides to emulate him and starts referring to himself in the third person.
I understand the context of how my sisters here use third person as a way of describing thier "em femme" self and see how they see themselves as seperate personna's and indeed perhaps separate parts of themselves.
Having said all of that, it still drives me insane and everyone should stop doing it right now!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
Love always,
Elizabeth
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Beauty
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I love you all so much!!!!
You don't know how much I thought about this thread at work and wondered what it was going to turn into, but you all pretty much took it as I meant it.
Virginia? Come here you!!!
Thank you so much for saying you'll try to refer to yourself as you and let Virginia be your name only and not the third person you.
I do want you to know that if you don't stop or if you decide it's not you, that I will love you to no end anyway.
Thank you so much for listening to what I had to say and not getting offended because I surely didn't mean to offend you. Not today, not anyday would I ever want to do that.
Thanks for all of the responses!!!!
Someone said it best. It's not your problem it's mine.
Beauty
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Loretta Ann
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Hi all,
Did you all know that it is recognized that there is an inner feminine part of the male personality, (At least in the dictionary) and that it has a name?
anima
But it is not two separate identities. It is one person.
Love,
Darlene.
Did you all know that it is recognized that there is an inner feminine part of the male personality, (At least in the dictionary) and that it has a name?
anima
But it is not two separate identities. It is one person.
Source: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=animaMain Entry: an·i·ma
Pronunciation: 'a-n&-m&
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Latin, soul
: an individual's true inner self that in the analytic psychology of C. G. Jung reflects archetypal ideals of conduct; also : an inner feminine part of the male personality
Love,
Darlene.
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Cathy L. Anderson
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A very interesting thread. I tend to use third-person, but it's always good to question something like this. Here are a few thoughts:
* I think people use 3rd person because it is helpful for them. In Jung's psychological alchemy model, before integration can occur there must be a separation (separatio) of the 'elements.' That is, before one can consciously integrate the 'opposites,' one must first consciously recognize the opposites as distinct.
* Likely not all people mean the same thing when they use 3rd person. Some might mean it fairly literally. Others might simply use it to communicate a slippery notion. It's easier to say "Cathy thinks this" than "The subset of my mental life which is more at the surface when I wear a dress thinks this."
* There are other common examples where we use 3rd person to refer to parts of our psyche. "I" usually refers to the conscious ego. But we say "my unconscious," "my higher Self," "my dark side," ect. -- all third person.
* In my case the third-person thing goes both ways. "Cathy" also talks about my male self in third person.
Cathy
* I think people use 3rd person because it is helpful for them. In Jung's psychological alchemy model, before integration can occur there must be a separation (separatio) of the 'elements.' That is, before one can consciously integrate the 'opposites,' one must first consciously recognize the opposites as distinct.
* Likely not all people mean the same thing when they use 3rd person. Some might mean it fairly literally. Others might simply use it to communicate a slippery notion. It's easier to say "Cathy thinks this" than "The subset of my mental life which is more at the surface when I wear a dress thinks this."
* There are other common examples where we use 3rd person to refer to parts of our psyche. "I" usually refers to the conscious ego. But we say "my unconscious," "my higher Self," "my dark side," ect. -- all third person.
* In my case the third-person thing goes both ways. "Cathy" also talks about my male self in third person.
Right. Jung does not have a monopoly on these terms--and psychology has not stopped evolving since Jung. Anyway, as CDs, our female side is complex and might involve more than a single standard psychological entity/term.Maggie wrote:whether or not my use of the word "persona" strictly fits Jung's definition.
Cathy
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Beauty
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Cathy L. Anderson
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Beauty,
As you said, it's pretty obviously your 'hangup' and maybe only you can figure out why it bothers you.
The only other thing I can offer, and this isn't a head trip, is that in the "Coping for CDs" section, I mainly see "Cathy" at least in her current form, as a problem in my life. So I don't come here with the "feeling" that I am a woman. In another situation, say if I were dressed and in public, then it would seem strange and annoying to refer to Cathy in third person.
Cathy
As you said, it's pretty obviously your 'hangup' and maybe only you can figure out why it bothers you.
The only other thing I can offer, and this isn't a head trip, is that in the "Coping for CDs" section, I mainly see "Cathy" at least in her current form, as a problem in my life. So I don't come here with the "feeling" that I am a woman. In another situation, say if I were dressed and in public, then it would seem strange and annoying to refer to Cathy in third person.
Cathy
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Beauty
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Hi Cathy!
Yup! It's totally all something that makes me look like a very shallow person. I don't think you were saying that, but it's true anyway. It's my hangup 100% I have figured out that if I hear an explanation from a person why they say it, I can get it. If I don't it's back to 
The way you see things about 3rd person is totally logical and doesn't freak me out any. Your last sentence was priceless!
That would be me too.
Have a great day!!!!
Beauty
Yup! It's totally all something that makes me look like a very shallow person. I don't think you were saying that, but it's true anyway.
It's my hangup 100% I have figured out that if I hear an explanation from a person why they say it, I can get it. If I don't it's back to The way you see things about 3rd person is totally logical and doesn't freak me out any. Your last sentence was priceless!
That would be me too.Have a great day!!!!
Beauty
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Loretta Ann
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Huh??? All third person??? Since when are parts considered a third person? Would you then call a hand a third person? How about the brain? And on and on. Isn't that really stretching it?In part Cathy Anderson wrote: * There are other common examples where we use 3rd person to refer to parts of our psyche. "I" usually refers to the conscious ego. But we say "my unconscious," "my higher Self," "my dark side," ect. -- all third person.
How do you differentiate between things like ones wife, ones job, ones home, ones friend etc. Are they third person also? (in the same way?) Or are they a part of your world? The reason we have dictionaries is so that we can come together in common communication. Cathy I have a hard time understanding many of the things you write as it seems you are writing over my head. There is no book written that would help me understand what such things like conscious ego mean, and it is just to time consuming attempting to remember every ones personal pet application to certain words. Those who resort to this kind of stuff are going to be misread, and misunderstood. If read at all.
By the way the reference to the word persona which is connected to Jung was not the important part of my post, but I suppose it serves as a good enough smoke screen to divert attention away from the main focus, as it was the easiest to attack.
Darlene.
Last edited by Loretta Ann on Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Maggie
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I hope this forum would show tolerance for those of us who occasionally feel the need to refer to our femme selves in the third person. If I were not able to use the third person in appropriate contexts, I simply would not be able to discuss my situation accurately and honestly.
Let me explain why I do not want to be forced to use the first person as Maggie all the time (and this is strictly my own personal perception). It would make me feel unwelcome unless I accepted (or pretended) that my femme self - Maggie - was the real and only me.
I know that there are some members of this forum who apparently feel this way about themselves and can't understand why I don't feel this way also. I wonder if these persons might find the use of the third person to be threatening in some way.
Previously on this forum I have been encouraged to accept my femme self as the real me - as if what worked for some people should also work for me. But it is also possible that what is valid and true for them is not true and valid for me. (I have been told, and tend to believe, that my masculine/feminine ratio is an even 50-50.)
I know that I love being Maggie (3rd person again), and that when I am her I feel as if this is the true me. If our society were different, I would be sorely tempted to be Maggie on a regular basis. I think I could make a fairly credible woman. But we all know that things are not that easy.
In my case, I have a wife who hates my cross-dressing and who is emotionally incapable of changing her attitude. (My therapist has confirmed this.) Furthermore, I have numerous relationships and responsibilities in my male persona. Transitioning would entail a tremendous sacrifice on many levels. But more important, I am not sure that I would really want to live as a woman after all.
For all these reasons (and more), I seriously doubt that my gender "journey" will lead me toward womanhood. The ideal resolution, in my mind, would be to integrate Maggie's (3rd person again) positive energy and self-love into my male persona. Once I am able to accomplish this, the need to refer to parts of me in the third person might no longer be necessary. But I still have a long, long way to go.
Some of you may think that I am still in denial about my transgendered nature. Perhaps what I have written might seem like back-sliding. But I am really struggling to salvage my life while there is still time to live it. If I have to worry about whether I write in the first or third person, I might as well stop writing.
Let me explain why I do not want to be forced to use the first person as Maggie all the time (and this is strictly my own personal perception). It would make me feel unwelcome unless I accepted (or pretended) that my femme self - Maggie - was the real and only me.
I know that there are some members of this forum who apparently feel this way about themselves and can't understand why I don't feel this way also. I wonder if these persons might find the use of the third person to be threatening in some way.
Previously on this forum I have been encouraged to accept my femme self as the real me - as if what worked for some people should also work for me. But it is also possible that what is valid and true for them is not true and valid for me. (I have been told, and tend to believe, that my masculine/feminine ratio is an even 50-50.)
I know that I love being Maggie (3rd person again), and that when I am her I feel as if this is the true me. If our society were different, I would be sorely tempted to be Maggie on a regular basis. I think I could make a fairly credible woman. But we all know that things are not that easy.
In my case, I have a wife who hates my cross-dressing and who is emotionally incapable of changing her attitude. (My therapist has confirmed this.) Furthermore, I have numerous relationships and responsibilities in my male persona. Transitioning would entail a tremendous sacrifice on many levels. But more important, I am not sure that I would really want to live as a woman after all.
For all these reasons (and more), I seriously doubt that my gender "journey" will lead me toward womanhood. The ideal resolution, in my mind, would be to integrate Maggie's (3rd person again) positive energy and self-love into my male persona. Once I am able to accomplish this, the need to refer to parts of me in the third person might no longer be necessary. But I still have a long, long way to go.
Some of you may think that I am still in denial about my transgendered nature. Perhaps what I have written might seem like back-sliding. But I am really struggling to salvage my life while there is still time to live it. If I have to worry about whether I write in the first or third person, I might as well stop writing.
Maggie
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Kay(SO)
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Okay, adding a thought again. It's me, the gabby SO...
One of the difficulties some SO's have in supporting or accepting has to do with whether or not there is a third person in the relationship. The first time I was with my husband when he dressed, I did it because it was important for me to see that it was still "him" underneath it all. I needed to see that this other woman in our lives was still my man. That doesn't apply to those who consider themselves more than CD'rs but it applied to me. It bothered me to think about this third person who my hubby was spending so much money on and time with. If there were a third person, then she was getting more from him than he was giving to me and I wanted to punch her lights out.
You get my meaning. Anyhoo, just thought I'd throw this in because I've heard it said by many SO's that they have experienced similiar feelings at some point in their own scenario. I've even heard an SO say that "she" (her husband dressed) is a bi#$% and that she didn't like her at all. I'm glad that I don't have to contend with that separateness, as if "she" is a different person than my "he".
And Beauty, for what it's worth, the speaking in third person drives me batty too. Just me and I'll have to explore what it is that bugs me. Hugs,
Kay(SO)
One of the difficulties some SO's have in supporting or accepting has to do with whether or not there is a third person in the relationship. The first time I was with my husband when he dressed, I did it because it was important for me to see that it was still "him" underneath it all. I needed to see that this other woman in our lives was still my man. That doesn't apply to those who consider themselves more than CD'rs but it applied to me. It bothered me to think about this third person who my hubby was spending so much money on and time with. If there were a third person, then she was getting more from him than he was giving to me and I wanted to punch her lights out.
You get my meaning. Anyhoo, just thought I'd throw this in because I've heard it said by many SO's that they have experienced similiar feelings at some point in their own scenario. I've even heard an SO say that "she" (her husband dressed) is a bi#$% and that she didn't like her at all. I'm glad that I don't have to contend with that separateness, as if "she" is a different person than my "he".
And Beauty, for what it's worth, the speaking in third person drives me batty too. Just me and I'll have to explore what it is that bugs me. Hugs,
Kay(SO)
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Loretta Ann
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Maggie I have often referred to myself as Darlene, and occasionally Alex etc. I don’t have a problem with that. There are times when one needs to do that in order to make their point. Contrary to your perception I do understand why you refer to yourself the way you do, but I am not here to give others answers. You need to find your own answers.In part Maggie wrote: I know that there are some members of this forum who apparently feel this way about themselves and can't understand why I don't feel this way also. I wonder if these persons might find the use of the third person to be threatening in some way.
I will at times tell others how I have solved a certain issue etc. in the chance that it might help some one else. But mostly I like to post things that will stretch another person. Things that will stir others to thought about a certain issue.
I to have no need to transition, but that does not mean I won’t wear different hats for different occasions Sometimes it is Darlene, other times it is Frank. But completely divorce… myself from the masculine part of who I am? Switch back and forth? That’s depression. I don’t want to go there. That is the part of the third person I don't understand.
Darlene.
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Virginia
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Kay,
The more I read of your posts and those of other SO's, I see, yet can not understand (not being of the feminine mind).
I thank whatever "powers that be" that some of you try and struggle to understand us when we have trouble understanding it ourselves!!! That has got to be so difficult for you. First is it or is it not another woman taking your SO's time and effort??? I guess, if in your place (as best I can imagine) I would be ?what? jealous, curious, just plain mad as hell?? Thus the seemingly unending delima for us,of why we want to do it and your greater challenge of accepting and understanding! Is that still the guy I love and married under all that war paint and "weaponary?" Is he the same or different as his anima?
No need to answer, as I am just regirating what I hear you and the other SO's saying and what a struggle it is for you. God bless those of you who even try and understand!
Love you,
Virginia
PS: to my Sis, Darlene, honey, chill out!!
The more I read of your posts and those of other SO's, I see, yet can not understand (not being of the feminine mind).
I thank whatever "powers that be" that some of you try and struggle to understand us when we have trouble understanding it ourselves!!! That has got to be so difficult for you. First is it or is it not another woman taking your SO's time and effort??? I guess, if in your place (as best I can imagine) I would be ?what? jealous, curious, just plain mad as hell?? Thus the seemingly unending delima for us,of why we want to do it and your greater challenge of accepting and understanding! Is that still the guy I love and married under all that war paint and "weaponary?" Is he the same or different as his anima?
No need to answer, as I am just regirating what I hear you and the other SO's saying and what a struggle it is for you. God bless those of you who even try and understand!
Love you,
Virginia
PS: to my Sis, Darlene, honey, chill out!!
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
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Beauty
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Hi Maggie,
There's no way I think you're anything other than a wonderful person who's getting to know yourself. Your 3rd person talking is just something that drives me batty. It doesn't matter than you're a CD'r and doing it. It drives me batty no matter what.
It's not me who has to tolerate you, it's reversed. If I have a petty problem with something, you shouldn't be subjected to my critiques. I was just venting about a huuuuge pet peeve. I ask your tolerance and acceptance that I want to jump out of windows rather that hear it. I'll get better, I'll try to really hard.
You should never be forced to do anything. If you want to refer to yourself in the 3rd person please do it. I told the same thing to Virginia. It's not my right to tell you how to be. I was just being open as all get out in this thread because I couldn't hold it in anymore. As I said in my first post I'm an idiot for not saying this earlier. Now it's far more expressive because I've held my "ACK!" for this.
I know how much you love being Maggie and you've come so far. Please don't let a thread about someone going batty over the way you refer to yourself as something negative about your beautiful femme presence.
I think you are not comfy about your TG'd self yet, but you've only really been exploring this a little while when you compare it to the days of your life. You are far from denial.
I'm really sorry if my post offended you. I was just being honest, but I wasn't trying to hurt you or anyone else.
Beauty
There's no way I think you're anything other than a wonderful person who's getting to know yourself. Your 3rd person talking is just something that drives me batty. It doesn't matter than you're a CD'r and doing it. It drives me batty no matter what.
It's not me who has to tolerate you, it's reversed. If I have a petty problem with something, you shouldn't be subjected to my critiques. I was just venting about a huuuuge pet peeve. I ask your tolerance and acceptance that I want to jump out of windows rather that hear it.
I'll get better, I'll try to really hard. You should never be forced to do anything. If you want to refer to yourself in the 3rd person please do it. I told the same thing to Virginia. It's not my right to tell you how to be. I was just being open as all get out in this thread because I couldn't hold it in anymore. As I said in my first post I'm an idiot for not saying this earlier.
Now it's far more expressive because I've held my "ACK!" for this.I know how much you love being Maggie and you've come so far. Please don't let a thread about someone going batty over the way you refer to yourself as something negative about your beautiful femme presence.
I think you are not comfy about your TG'd self yet, but you've only really been exploring this a little while when you compare it to the days of your life. You are far from denial.
I'm really sorry if my post offended you. I was just being honest, but I wasn't trying to hurt you or anyone else.
Beauty