I was just reading the thread "What do you think?" wher Beauty states CD's like to take pictures of thenselves. I don't think all do, I have taked 2, and seem to have lost one of them.
But back to the subject, is this another expression of exhibitionism? I'm thinking we all (thats the big inclusive all) are guilty.
Susann
Exhibitionism
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Susann_Gardener
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Loretta Ann
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Well Susann,Susann_Gardener wrote: But back to the subject, is this another expression of exhibitionism? I'm thinking we all (thats the big inclusive all) are guilty.
Can you explain to me how one that lives by themselves and dresses (only) at home is an exhibitionist? Help me out here hon? What reference do you have for that kind of statement?
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Kathy
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One man's exhibitionist is another man's... 
So, what do you think of the person who, in this area of Chevys and Fords, drives around town in their Mercedes? Exhibitionist or just someone driving a car they like because they can? Is Dolly Parton an exhibitionist or just a lady so comfortable in her own skin that she can wear whatever she wants AND get away with it?
If you haven't already, read my signature line.
Love,
Kathy
So, what do you think of the person who, in this area of Chevys and Fords, drives around town in their Mercedes? Exhibitionist or just someone driving a car they like because they can? Is Dolly Parton an exhibitionist or just a lady so comfortable in her own skin that she can wear whatever she wants AND get away with it?
Elizabeth, I would ask your brother why no one else can? Is anyone or anything really preventing them? Or are they simply too scared or self-concious or too low self-esteem to "just do it"?Elizabeth wrote:He responded '[that everyone wants to live thier life how they want, why was I special. Why should I be able to when no one else can?]"
If you haven't already, read my signature line.
Love,
Kathy
Whatever you accomplish in life is a manifestation not so much of what you do, as of what you believe deeply within yourself that you deserve. - Les Brown
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CJ
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Hi all,
Cute photos, Elizabeth. But is that an antenna sticking out from the top of your head, there?
I always thought you were some kind of Martian or android. 
Seriously, though, you're right; this whole "exhibitionism" issue is pretty complex. I'm more interested in the social aspects than I am in the allegedly sexual aspects. It's not so much the question of attraction that intrigues me as it is the question of limits or boundaries. Of course, someone (male or female or whatever) "flaunting their stuff" will attract attention. But, under what circumstances can we consider that someone is "flaunting their stuff"? What are the limits?
For example, Elizabeth, in that outdoors shot you posted, in no way do I consider you to be guilty of any kind of exhibitionism. In fact, quite the opposite! Your appearance is somewhat muted and subdued. The only way you'd attract attention there is if someone made you out to be a man, if someone read you (an easy thing, seeing as you're not trying to pass). To me, you look classy, in the sense that you're very much appropriately dressed for the occasion (regardless of your gender). No exhibitionism there, as far as I'm concerned. You're not trying to shock or provoke (so tell your brother to "stuff it," eh? ).
It's been said that women are exhibitionists when it comes to their appearance whereas men are exhibitionists when it comes to their displays of social status (wealth, power, etc.). What I find funny (and a bit unfortunate) about all these things (looks, wealth, power, fame, etc.) is that people act as though they actually have some control over them and then pride themselves on possessing them. They exhibit them. Literally. But, alas, sic transit gloria mundi. Thus goes the glory of the world. Looks. Wealth. Power. Fame. They're all here one day, gone the next. There are many echoes in the world to the biblical story of Job. In fact, your own life, Elizabeth, mirrors the tale. We don't control the Fates or Providence (or whatever you want to call destiny); on the other hand, we can control how we view or understand ourselves... and then act accordingly (which we seldom choose to do, given the obstacle that is our social conditioning).
Exhibitionism is, for me, a question of limits. At what point is that half-naked teenage girl walking down the street too half-naked? Well, there's room for more half-nakedness, if we're to put stock in the images of a Britney Spears or a Shakira (or whoever the bubble gum icon of the day happens to be). Same goes for the gangsta music scene; how much dripping gold jewelry and sleekly tuned tricked-out wheels is enough? Apparently, it's never enough--and it can never be flaunted enough.
Now, you may have noticed that, in the examples above, youth plays a big part. In my mind, exhibitionistic tendencies are associated with that kind of youthful mindset that wants to "shock and awe," that wants to rebel, that wants to say to the world, "I reject you; I reject your values." There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, mind you. It's just harder to justify when it comes from a forty- or fifty-something year old who otherwise totally buys into those same values. Plus, of course, there's the small matter of people becoming angry when their most deeply held beliefs and most cherished values are thrown back at them in their face.
To exhibit, in a sense, means to put your wares on display. It's a conscious act and the assumption is that there is a customer (or group of customers) somewhere that might be interested in what you have to offer. Terri said it best in her post above; there are times when you don't want to put your wares on display, so you dress down. Or you dress in private, for that matter. And this, for me, is the essential self-contradiction in the behaviour of many crossdressers (again, my own included); we want to put our wares on display, so to speak, but we don't want anybody to be seriously interested enough to fondle the merchandise, as it were. Beauty, in her thread on our appreciation of our own beauty, has touched upon this. The gaze of the Other (presumably, a male Other) unnerves us precisely because, even though we know we're putting ourselves on display (when we dress en femme in a more or less alluring manner), our intent is misconstrued: we dress not to attract (a gaze, a touch, whatever) but rather to "exteriorize" what has always been hidden inside us all our lives, to become congruent, to have our skin match our souls.
Many CD's say sexuality has nothing to do with their dressing. But, for many more, it does... if they're honest with themselves. We dress up. It's a very erotic and sensual experience. It makes us feel sexy. We want to express that sexiness and we want others to bear witness to our sex appeal. This often makes us dress like teenagers or hookers (where sex appeal is the primum mobile). This, in turn, can lead others to accuse us of being exhibitionistic. From then on, it's sexual. Patently so. I think this is what my GG friend was trying to say when she said that, for men, it is sexual. More so than for women. This exhibitionism is a form of display, a display--oddly enough for men who dress as women--of sexual prowess. Women rarely experience this urge to display their sexual prowess. As Pogo once said, "we have met the enemy, and he is us."
In closing, I want you all to realize that these are just my own views and they only apply to some, not all, crossdressers (and I'm specifically leaving transgenderists and transsexuals out of the equation--their motivations are likely different).
Love,
CJ
Cute photos, Elizabeth. But is that an antenna sticking out from the top of your head, there?
I always thought you were some kind of Martian or android. Seriously, though, you're right; this whole "exhibitionism" issue is pretty complex. I'm more interested in the social aspects than I am in the allegedly sexual aspects. It's not so much the question of attraction that intrigues me as it is the question of limits or boundaries. Of course, someone (male or female or whatever) "flaunting their stuff" will attract attention. But, under what circumstances can we consider that someone is "flaunting their stuff"? What are the limits?
For example, Elizabeth, in that outdoors shot you posted, in no way do I consider you to be guilty of any kind of exhibitionism. In fact, quite the opposite! Your appearance is somewhat muted and subdued. The only way you'd attract attention there is if someone made you out to be a man, if someone read you (an easy thing, seeing as you're not trying to pass). To me, you look classy, in the sense that you're very much appropriately dressed for the occasion (regardless of your gender). No exhibitionism there, as far as I'm concerned. You're not trying to shock or provoke (so tell your brother to "stuff it," eh?
).It's been said that women are exhibitionists when it comes to their appearance whereas men are exhibitionists when it comes to their displays of social status (wealth, power, etc.). What I find funny (and a bit unfortunate) about all these things (looks, wealth, power, fame, etc.) is that people act as though they actually have some control over them and then pride themselves on possessing them. They exhibit them. Literally. But, alas, sic transit gloria mundi. Thus goes the glory of the world. Looks. Wealth. Power. Fame. They're all here one day, gone the next. There are many echoes in the world to the biblical story of Job. In fact, your own life, Elizabeth, mirrors the tale. We don't control the Fates or Providence (or whatever you want to call destiny); on the other hand, we can control how we view or understand ourselves... and then act accordingly (which we seldom choose to do, given the obstacle that is our social conditioning).
Exhibitionism is, for me, a question of limits. At what point is that half-naked teenage girl walking down the street too half-naked? Well, there's room for more half-nakedness, if we're to put stock in the images of a Britney Spears or a Shakira (or whoever the bubble gum icon of the day happens to be). Same goes for the gangsta music scene; how much dripping gold jewelry and sleekly tuned tricked-out wheels is enough? Apparently, it's never enough--and it can never be flaunted enough.
Now, you may have noticed that, in the examples above, youth plays a big part. In my mind, exhibitionistic tendencies are associated with that kind of youthful mindset that wants to "shock and awe," that wants to rebel, that wants to say to the world, "I reject you; I reject your values." There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, mind you. It's just harder to justify when it comes from a forty- or fifty-something year old who otherwise totally buys into those same values. Plus, of course, there's the small matter of people becoming angry when their most deeply held beliefs and most cherished values are thrown back at them in their face.
To exhibit, in a sense, means to put your wares on display. It's a conscious act and the assumption is that there is a customer (or group of customers) somewhere that might be interested in what you have to offer. Terri said it best in her post above; there are times when you don't want to put your wares on display, so you dress down. Or you dress in private, for that matter. And this, for me, is the essential self-contradiction in the behaviour of many crossdressers (again, my own included); we want to put our wares on display, so to speak, but we don't want anybody to be seriously interested enough to fondle the merchandise, as it were. Beauty, in her thread on our appreciation of our own beauty, has touched upon this. The gaze of the Other (presumably, a male Other) unnerves us precisely because, even though we know we're putting ourselves on display (when we dress en femme in a more or less alluring manner), our intent is misconstrued: we dress not to attract (a gaze, a touch, whatever) but rather to "exteriorize" what has always been hidden inside us all our lives, to become congruent, to have our skin match our souls.
Many CD's say sexuality has nothing to do with their dressing. But, for many more, it does... if they're honest with themselves. We dress up. It's a very erotic and sensual experience. It makes us feel sexy. We want to express that sexiness and we want others to bear witness to our sex appeal. This often makes us dress like teenagers or hookers (where sex appeal is the primum mobile). This, in turn, can lead others to accuse us of being exhibitionistic. From then on, it's sexual. Patently so. I think this is what my GG friend was trying to say when she said that, for men, it is sexual. More so than for women. This exhibitionism is a form of display, a display--oddly enough for men who dress as women--of sexual prowess. Women rarely experience this urge to display their sexual prowess. As Pogo once said, "we have met the enemy, and he is us."
In closing, I want you all to realize that these are just my own views and they only apply to some, not all, crossdressers (and I'm specifically leaving transgenderists and transsexuals out of the equation--their motivations are likely different).
Love,
CJ
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CJ
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Hi all,
Wow. The replies are piling up faster than I can process.
Darlene,
Could your being "housebound" have something to do with fear? Just wondering, here. If you knew for a fact that no possible harm whatsoever could come to you should you decide to go out en femme, would you? And, if you did, would that be considered a form of exhibitionism?
Love,
CJ
Wow. The replies are piling up faster than I can process.
Darlene,
Could your being "housebound" have something to do with fear? Just wondering, here. If you knew for a fact that no possible harm whatsoever could come to you should you decide to go out en femme, would you? And, if you did, would that be considered a form of exhibitionism?
Love,
CJ
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RobynP
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Crossdressing Granularity
All,
In meeting various crossdressers over the years, it seems like we are trying to project a feminine image, an image of how WE individually define "feminine". Some try to appear much younger such as teenage or little girls. Some try to appear as pregnant, very pregnant. Others look like they've come right out of the 50's. Some look like hookers. Some go to great lengths and great detail working on their appearance with wigs, makeup, body shapers, etc. Others forego wigs and makeup and bodyshapers. Some try to draw attention to themselves (i.e. drag queen) while others try to blend in or pass as much as possible.
Why is there such variation in our community? Probably because there are many different ideas about what is feminine and what isn't. And I would guess that often our definition of feminine does not closely align with what GGs and SOs think is feminine. How many women look like drag queens?
Robyn P.
In meeting various crossdressers over the years, it seems like we are trying to project a feminine image, an image of how WE individually define "feminine". Some try to appear much younger such as teenage or little girls. Some try to appear as pregnant, very pregnant. Others look like they've come right out of the 50's. Some look like hookers. Some go to great lengths and great detail working on their appearance with wigs, makeup, body shapers, etc. Others forego wigs and makeup and bodyshapers. Some try to draw attention to themselves (i.e. drag queen) while others try to blend in or pass as much as possible.
Why is there such variation in our community? Probably because there are many different ideas about what is feminine and what isn't. And I would guess that often our definition of feminine does not closely align with what GGs and SOs think is feminine. How many women look like drag queens?
Robyn P.
Robyn P.
--> just a plain sig <--
--> just a plain sig <--
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Loretta Ann
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The answer is no CJ.CJ wrote: Darlene,
Could your being "housebound" have something to do with fear? Just wondering, here. If you knew for a fact that no possible harm whatsoever could come to you should you decide to go out en femme, would you? And, if you did, would that be considered a form of exhibitionism?
Because I could go out dressed like Elizabeth does. I would not have a problem with that if I felt I had to do that in order to get my needs met. Should that situation arise I will be out there. I also need to experience feeling good in male clothes (as I recently reported here). So I need that time also. It is part of bringing balance to my life.
Contrary to many peoples opinions hopes or dreams, I do not see this world becoming a perfect place (ever) so there will always be some sort of friction. Friction causes stress. Many of us claim that we dress to relieve stress. Then we turn around and involve ourselves in activities that include stress. That would be defeating the purpose for my cross-dressing.
I have been through enough in life where people have rejected me, that if that happens I will look for those who won’t and build my life with those who are more mature individuals. Thus the comment I have previously made: That if anyone has a serious problem with me being who I am, they have nothing (of value) to contribute to my life and I will not waste any time trying to change that.
I personally feel there is a tendency for this thread to move towards something that may be sort of off topic. And that some here may have attempted to move it into something that appears more comfortable. The kind of exhibitionism that I am uncomfortable with is the ignorant in your in your face kind of thing that causes hurt and/or pain to others, as well as stress to all concerned. It is not healthy regardless of the kind of a spin others attempt to put on it.
Peace.
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CJ
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Hi all,
Robyn wrote: How many women look like drag queens?
Well, we can start with Phyllis Diller, Dolly Parton, Cher, Tammy Faye, Anita Bryant... er, scratch that last one maybe.
Darlene,
I understand where you're coming from. I do. But I was just asking a hypothetical question. If no harm would result, and if your needs could only be met in this way, would you consider your being out there in the world, en femme, to be a form of exhibitionism?
Love,
CJ
Robyn wrote: How many women look like drag queens?
Well, we can start with Phyllis Diller, Dolly Parton, Cher, Tammy Faye, Anita Bryant... er, scratch that last one maybe.
Darlene,
I understand where you're coming from. I do. But I was just asking a hypothetical question. If no harm would result, and if your needs could only be met in this way, would you consider your being out there in the world, en femme, to be a form of exhibitionism?
Love,
CJ
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Loretta Ann
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I thought I answered that question in my last post, but in the event that I was not clear enough. In the context of your question If no harm would result absolutely not.In part CJ wrote: Darlene,
I understand where you're coming from. I do. But I was just asking a hypothetical question. If no harm would result, and if your needs could only be met in this way, would you consider your being out there in the world, en femme, to be a form of exhibitionism?
Now that response is not meant to be construed to mean that those who need to go out in order to get their needs met are exhibitionists. That is something that needs to be answered in each individuals mind.
At the end of the day it does not matter what I (or anyone) thinks about where others are at; each person needs to live with who they are. But the right questions can assist one in making an educated decision.
Now if I may ask you a question? What was the reason for your concern?
Peace.
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Mandy Swag
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CJ
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Hi all,
Darlene,
Didn't mean to put you off. The only reason I asked is because this is a discussion forum, and that's what people do on a discussion forum; they discuss. In this particular case, they discuss exhibitionism.
I understand that you don't care to live your life according to the opinions others may have of you (or of anyone else, for that matter); we all agree on that. None of us do or would wish to. But, at the risk of repeating myself, it's still a good thing to discover what other people's opinions are when we're having a discussion with them (say, for instance, on a discussion forum) because that helps us to see and understand (and evaluate) our own opinions, no?
Anyway, Scout's honour, that was the only reason for my "concern."
Love,
CJ
Darlene,
Didn't mean to put you off.
The only reason I asked is because this is a discussion forum, and that's what people do on a discussion forum; they discuss. In this particular case, they discuss exhibitionism.I understand that you don't care to live your life according to the opinions others may have of you (or of anyone else, for that matter); we all agree on that. None of us do or would wish to. But, at the risk of repeating myself, it's still a good thing to discover what other people's opinions are when we're having a discussion with them (say, for instance, on a discussion forum) because that helps us to see and understand (and evaluate) our own opinions, no?
Anyway, Scout's honour, that was the only reason for my "concern."
Love,
CJ
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Loretta Ann
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Due the fact that you asked me the same question twice CJ. It appeared that you might have been pushing for something more. And if that were the case I wanted to know what it was. I wasn’t put off by it. I just wanted to understand you more.
I will have to think about this helping me to see and understand (and evaluate) my own opinions, I am not so sure how closely I fit that picture. To me part of being able to live with who I am does not seem to leave a lot of room for much of that. That sort of seems like I could end up aligning myself with the masses. And you know that I consider the masses to be asses. (No pun intended.) (Just giving you a little more of myself). Personally I have gained more from reading what others write. But usually it is just one little sentence or word, as opposed to their opinion.
But I can understand how some might feel that as being beneficial to their life. And I wish you the very best with that.
Peace.
Far better it is to risk ones own path, even though it may be checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat
I will have to think about this helping me to see and understand (and evaluate) my own opinions, I am not so sure how closely I fit that picture. To me part of being able to live with who I am does not seem to leave a lot of room for much of that. That sort of seems like I could end up aligning myself with the masses. And you know that I consider the masses to be asses. (No pun intended.) (Just giving you a little more of myself). Personally I have gained more from reading what others write. But usually it is just one little sentence or word, as opposed to their opinion.
But I can understand how some might feel that as being beneficial to their life. And I wish you the very best with that.
Peace.
Far better it is to risk ones own path, even though it may be checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat
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Susann_Gardener
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DarleneDarlene wrote:Well Susann,Susann_Gardener wrote: But back to the subject, is this another expression of exhibitionism? I'm thinking we all (thats the big inclusive all) are guilty.
Can you explain to me how one that lives by themselves and dresses (only) at home is an exhibitionist? Help me out here hon? What reference do you have for that kind of statement?
I think this adds to the complexity of exhibitionism.
This was in reference to taking pictures of ones self. If we have pictures, we show them. Sometimes (as I think you are saying) we only show them to our selves. Does this fall into the subject category? I think it does, but in a different (maybe its just "safe") way.
Susann
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Paula Valentine
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There seem to be hundreds of websites by CDs who never go out, but have a gazillion pics of themselves in very provocative poses. The Internet provides a great way for a closeted CD to be an exhibitionist.Susann_Gardener wrote:DarleneDarlene wrote:Well Susann,Susann_Gardener wrote: But back to the subject, is this another expression of exhibitionism? I'm thinking we all (thats the big inclusive all) are guilty.
Can you explain to me how one that lives by themselves and dresses (only) at home is an exhibitionist? Help me out here hon? What reference do you have for that kind of statement?
I think this adds to the complexity of exhibitionism.
This was in reference to taking pictures of ones self. If we have pictures, we show them. Sometimes (as I think you are saying) we only show them to our selves. Does this fall into the subject category? I think it does, but in a different (maybe its just "safe") way.
Susann