20/20 vision

Virginia · Post by **Virginia** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:47 pm

I have been experiencing this all my life - just like, I can only assume, all of you. I have not posted this until now and perhaps it is no big deal, but here goes!
Have you ever noticed how we (males) can see a shape, sillouette, form, person, whatever, and for me it is regardless of the distance from me, I can tell if it is female!!!??? It seems to be that it does not matter what they are wearing from a heavy winter coat to jeans regardless of their "figure" or the angle I see them - I can tell if it is a female. Now I am not talking about a CD trying to pass or anything like that just in a normal situation, while driving a car or walking through a mall in a grocery store. My eyes see and instantaneously my brain says whether or not it is female, and more times than not if I get close enough to confirm it I am right 99.9% of the time.
What do you think or is this not even worth discussing?? Won't hurt my feelings one way or the other, just an observation!
Virginia

Anita · Post by **Anita** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:37 pm

Hi Virginia--
That's odd, in that I just came to that realization myself last week. I don't know quite what to make of it, and like you, it doesn't seem to matter what 'cover' the person has on. It of course makes me wonder how I appear to others when I'm out dressed--at the distances I'm talking about, I'm not really seeing faces or any other gender cues. It's just a kind of automatic radar that is always operating, and it's right much of the time.

I don't think it has that much to do with being aware of transgender, either. I think everyone's got it operating. Knowing what gender we're seeing is primal for us--I think it's hard-wired for survival. Reproduction is serious business in this world!

That's also why I find myself getting angry when I can't automatically tell gender. I don't like this reaction in myself, but it's there! You'd think being around TG people all the time in support groups, I'd be more "understanding," but my gut reaction is undeniable. I want to know!

If I see an obvious CD, I don't have the same reaction. My instinct is satisfied if I "know" it's a man out dressed as a woman. It's the gender-fluid people that bring this out in me. Drives me craxy, but there it is.

Merinda · Post by **Merinda** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:05 pm

Hi girls,

I have a totally unique experience , when I spot a male I sometimes see a woman at the same time for a split second.
Its like this person is someone else just for a moment , kind of hard to explain its like a quick view of this person as the opposite gender.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:01 pm

Hi Sis,

I try and determine which sex they are, but can not lay claim to the accuracy level that you have achieved.

It is interesting though that I generally feel more comfortable if it is a woman that is approaching as opposed to a man.

Sallee · Post by **Sallee** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:11 pm

Some times I can't tell if it is a man or a woman. We (males) scope out females 1st and then if it is a guy we move on. (unless of coourse your into guys) I don't know how or if this relates to crossdressing. I think it is a breeding thing...Sallee

Absaroka · Post by **Absaroka** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:18 pm

I haven't really thougth about it but I guess I usually can. I do know that there have been a couple of times when I couldn't tell even when I got up close. It was a wierd feeling. As if I needed to know so that I could relate properly to them, and avoid some faux pas. I did not like the feeling. Perhaps it's another reason we make people nervous.

Interestingly I can't always tell with little kids. I have mistaken boys for girls and the other way around in toddlers several times. It is more frequent when they are from cultural groups other than my own.

In the old days mountain men said they could tell White people from Indians from far away, long before they could get a good look at them. Just something about the way the stood or sat on a horse. But nothing they could explain.

Andrea

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:12 am

Hi,

100% of the time I can tell a bull from a horse. That's right 100% of the time.

Kyra · Post by **Kyra** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:01 pm

I could never tell, from a distance. If the person was dressed androgenous, and I was walking any distance from them, it would take several glances before I could tell male from female. And even then, sometimes I was wrong.

I dunno why, either. I have 20/20 vision.

Hugs,
Kyra

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:45 pm

Beauty wrote:Hi,

100% of the time I can tell a bull from a horse. That's right 100% of the time.

Paulie · Post by **Paulie** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:09 pm

Beauty....
That was HIlarious!!

I've never really tested my accuracy on this topic. Yet, I know what Virginia is saying.... seems like I just zero in and know the gender.

Weird when you start thinking about it, huh??

Virginia · Post by **Virginia** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:02 pm

Thanks Paulie!
I am still trying to figure out if Beauty just gave me a whack with her 2x4 or not!!??

Virginia

Bernice · Post by **Bernice** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:21 pm

Sorry - personal Hot Button...

Several points:

If you think you are accurate 99.99% (or more) of the time, what are you using to verify your assumptions? Do you do random genetic testing?

We subconciously obsess over other people's genitals because society separates the classes and we are taught to do likewise. The majority is wrong about whether or not this is really civilized behavior.

The duality of genders is a myth. Everyone on this forum should already know that. There is no "male" or "Female". We are only one or the other to certain degrees. No measurable characteristic is truly unique to either gender (never mind sex - I'm talking about gender - as in identity).

20 months ago, I met someone I was sure was female. I never gave it a second thought. She had one of those multipurpose names: Terri.
Four months later she came up in conversation, and I used the correct pronoun - or so I thought. I was corrected by a friend who said I was not the first to be mistaken about Terri. Two months later I met Terry's wife, introduced by Terry as such. Still not really sure, I learned they have children. OK, OK, Alright already, I conceed: Science can do anything.

So how do I prove Terri is male or female? More importantly, why would I need to do that?

Is Terri merely more female than most males?

Whatever Terri "is" as defined by those on this thread who claim to be blessed with "GenDAR", Terri is a very good person, and I am pleased to know "hir". The lesson I learned was to not obsess over another person's genitals or genetics or gender unless I want to procreate with them.

Ignorant question, I guess: What difference does it make what genitals Terri has (or may have had)?

Don't we strive for acceptance? Don't we need to walk the walk if we talk the talk? Isn't doing anything less than that a way of being somewhat hypocritical?

I'll get off my soapbox now, and duck for cover.

Hugs,

Bernice

Virginia · Post by **Virginia** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:48 pm

I am not trying to appear sexist or anything like that I was only making a point that usually, if I am say, driving through a mall parking lot or at a super market or just down a city street and glance at a form of someone standing or walking or getting in or out of a car. I can almost instantly tell if that person is presenting as male or female.
NO harm no foul!
Virginia

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:39 pm

Hey Bernice,

Good post.

You wrote:The duality of genders is a myth. Everyone on this forum should already know that. There is no "male" or "Female". We are only one or the other to certain degrees. No measurable characteristic is truly unique to either gender (never mind sex - I'm talking about gender - as in identity.)

I think I read some where that you said you did not think you were all that wise. I disagree.

Stephanie W · Post by **Stephanie W** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:14 pm

Virginia

An interesting thread, and yes, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. This is something I have observed myself and have been facinated how it doesn't seem to make the slightest bit of difference what a female is wearing (whether a heavy coat with a hood or something overtly feminine), we just KNOW it's a female. It's our human instinct and our degree of accuracy is pretty well up there every time.

I recall reading a gender related article some years ago, and if I'm not mistaken, it mentioned that it was Freud himself who had observed that the first thing that hits us when we see or speak to another person is their gender. Somewhere in our brain, the first impulse provides us with that information ahead of anything else. (often, this will affect all of our subsequent behaviour or actions from that point on. I have always found that to be really interesting.

Now when I see people (women) wherever they might be, I cannot help but think what is it about them that makes me see "FEMALE"? My unscientific conclusion is that the first thing we notice is what they are wearing. If it's feminine, then hey, that's a no brainer right? (crossdressers notwithstanding

) Or perhaps the length of their hair? But what if they are bundled up, say like during winter months or wearing dark baggy clothes? Usually it's their frame or build. Women tend to be smaller than men so a smaller frame would usually point towards female. However, I would probably also be subconsciously noting the way they walked. Not always obvious when trudging through snow for example, but often, that, plus their height is usually enough to convince me I'm looking at a female. Not often wrong there so perhaps there is some merit to that.

In any situation where a female is wearing something 'unisex' or androgonous, I also find myself wondering what I might do to pass if I was wearing the same outfit. I know I would have a harder time 'passing' if anyone looked at me because they would likely be 'evaluating' me in exactly the same way. Only this time, they would probably be seeing "MALE", most likely because of my height. (still under 6ft) So if I was indeed trying to pass, what could I do? Perhaps if my walk (or deportment) was more feminine, that might help. What else? I'd be wearing makeup of course but what if they couldn't see my face? Maybe my long 'wig' might tip the scales to 'female', assuming I wasn't wearing something like a hooded jacket.

My point is that we as CD's are simply at a disadvantage unless we have an ideal woman's build. By that I mean an average woman. So what do we do? Well, we dress as femininely as we can. (open to interpretation here

) We need the distraction of the clothes. Simple as that. What people are wearing is one of the first things we notice. That's why I will always choose a skirt or dress instead of pants when I'm out. Less ambiguous. Human nature usually accepts things at face value so why shouldn't we be accepted as we are presenting ourselves? For those of you out in public, you will find that most folks take no notice. That's because they are so wrapped in their own lives to even be bothered or if they do give you a quick glance on the street, they will usually take you at face value. You are dressed like a female, so why wouldn't you BE one? People simply aren't looking for crossdressers.

So when we see someone on the street, we quickly glean from their initial appearance that they 'fit' a certain gender, then carry on our merry little way. Only if something leaps out at us as being 'out of the ordinary' will their curiousity be tweaked...assuming they even care.

Stephanie